Interesting Pistol Sights @ SHOT [Archive]

View Full Version : Interesting Pistol Sights @ SHOT

KellyTTE

01-23-10, 21:26

I stopped at the 'Tactical Aiming Solutions' booth (an Israeli company) on Thursday and they had a very interesting set of pistol sights. Its a monolithic aluminum block thats machined so that when you look at them from behind it mimics a set of traditional 3 post sights.

Here's the kicker though, running down the center is a tube with either a fiber optic or tritium dot at the end. Basically, you can't see the dot unless you have proper sight pictures. Its sort of a low tech, super simple red dot for a pistol. Here's the really weird part, you don't use the front sight. Its really hard to explain in words, but they had a Glock setup up with a bore laser and these sights and even without previous experience with them I was able to use the sights in a version of Bindon Aiming Concept and they are scary fast and accurate.

http://www.ttellc.net/images/sstt1031.jpg

http://www.t-a-s.co.il/

They gave me a fiber optic version, I'm going to run it on my G34 for a bit and I'll report back to you guys. Defense Review looked at a rough prototype back in 07 and called them interesting (but didn't fire them, so wasted breath imo). I want to see how these perform day/night/low light and see they with 'real' recoil if they're as fast as they are with the simulator.

John_Wayne777

01-23-10, 21:33

Looks like an interesting concept.

CLHC

01-23-10, 21:53

As stated, quite interesting! :cool:

Marcus L.

01-23-10, 21:55

Any idea how much these sights will sell for and when they will be available?

Gombey

01-23-10, 21:57

Agreed, I can't wait to read your write up!!!

KellyTTE

01-23-10, 21:57

Any idea how much these sights will sell for and when they will be available?

They're available now. The finish is 'ok' if not mindblowingly good, like say Tru-Glo products. Tritiums have a MSRP of 120.00, Fiber Optic are 90. Looks like the street prices will be 90 & 70ish. swat@t-a-s.co.il is the main email (I think).

SecretNY

01-23-10, 22:14

Do you know if they have a US distributor?

KellyTTE

01-23-10, 22:15

Do you know if they have a US distributor?

These guys I think:

http://laser-ammo.com/contact_us.html

USA Office:
Address:
23 Crescent Rd
Great Neck, NY 11021
Phone:
516.858.1262

That's Charles Dolan's info.

dookie1481

01-24-10, 00:32

Wow that is really effin cool. I would love to try a set of those out.

Jay

C-Fish

01-24-10, 08:50

Please provide feedback...

I like this concept. Can't wait to hear real life input.

M4Guru

01-24-10, 09:02

KellyTTE

01-24-10, 09:14

You don't have a reference aiming point on your pistol until you acquire a near-perfect sight picture from the looks of their concept. Understanding the fundamentals of pistol shooting, I am very skeptical of this theory.

I am interested in seeing some feedback or shooting a set before I condemn them but it looks like more gimmicky Israeli gun crap to me. YMMV.

My guess is that the prototype/earlier version, which was basically just the tube with the fo/trit, was a flop because of that very reason. I'm fairly certain that problem is why the newer version mimics the look (from the rear) of a traditional 3 point sight system.

http://www.t-a-s.co.il/WEB/8888/NSF/Web/2087/ANNEX%20B-2.jpg
(That's the prototype on the right, which lacks any reference point at all)

Gross sight picture get you 'to' the tube, the dot refines from there. When Heather first pointed their product out to me at the booth, I was very skeptical, but even dryfiring was pretty damn quick despite having 0 previous experience with these.

Chris Rhines

01-24-10, 11:13

The TAS appears to use a similar concept to the old Singlepoint night sight, with all its attendant problems.

While I'm sure that it is possible to do acceptable shooting with the TAS, it doesn't look like it does anything that a conventional set of pistol irons won't do better. In particular, the TAS appears to be slow to pick up, and the very short sight radius would provide little visual feedback while shooting rapidly. I would not want to try and make a precise shot at 15+ yards with the TAS.

I've long been of the opinion that the Patridge-style iron sight system for handguns is the pinnacle of its intended function - no real improvement is possible without a major categorical change (see: RDO, laser designator, etc.)

-C

ToddG

01-24-10, 11:45

Didn't see this at the show and thus I can only go by how it's been described and the pics, but I'm with Chris. This doesn't appear to do anything better than notch & post sights and looks like it would do some important things (precision at speed) worse.

QuietShootr

01-24-10, 11:47

Voodoochild

01-24-10, 12:18

Todd and M4Guru how about you two get your hands on a set and do some T&E. And let us lowly shooters know how your honest opinion. Only real way to see if it is a legit thing or just a flop.

JHC

01-24-10, 12:44

Well, I was opened minded enough to devote a LOT of rounds and a couple of years to XS Big Dots before returning to Warren Tactical sets. So I'll keep an open mind on these. The concept of not seeing the sweet spot until in proper sight picture position reminded me of my other experiment last year with a FastFire on a G19. The visual "hunting" for the right orientation to pick up the red dot was manageable on the repeatable drill of running down a rack of steel plates but for more dynamic moving and target acquisition I quickly learned to hate the FastFire.

So we shall see.

M4Guru

01-24-10, 12:59

I'll leave that one to somebody else. I don't get to the range enough at my new job to test out stuff like this. Maybe in the future.

KellyTTE

01-24-10, 15:00

DOA

01-29-10, 23:08

Tagged and looking forward to all the reviews. Definitely interested.

Bulldog1967

02-11-10, 21:11

Tagged

trio

02-11-10, 23:53

im intrigued....seems pretty self explanatory...you see the orange dot, you pull the trigger...

KellyTTE

02-12-10, 17:11

These sights are a NO GO at this time.

The concept of the sight itself is sound, but suffers from the the following critical issues:

1) The exposed portion of the fiber optic is small and the fiber optic 'thread' itself is fairly thin resulting in poor light transmission to the interior lens/bead that actually lights up to create the 'dot'. Because of the transmission issue, the dot is poorly illuminated indoors and in low/no light situations. Strike 1.

2) Because of the internal lens/bead size, the dot is small and when poorly illuminated (see above) hard to reacquire under speed. Enlarging the dot and improving the amount of light transmission would help, but increases the coarseness of the sights due to enlarging the MOA diameter of the dot, impacting accuracy. Strike 2

3) Quality control and fragility. None of the threaded items were loc-tite'd or staked in any manner, alignment of the three body parts was poor (fiber optic, tritium housing and main sight housing would not line up when assembled), and worst of all, about 100rds into the range session, the fiber optic thread popped out of the front of the sight and flew down range, never to be seen again, destroying its functionality in the process. Strike 3.

Your shipment of fail just arrived, please sign here.

I will say that the sights could be treated as traditional 3 posts without the use of the 'dot' but lost any accuracy past about 15yrds due to the size of the 'center post'.

I think that a product improved version of these could have a lot of potential but until they make serious improvements, these are not ready for prime time at this point and time. Sorry for the bad news guys.

joffe

02-12-10, 17:28

Ah frak. I guess its back to oggling those milled slides and RMRs again. ;)

markm

02-12-10, 18:14

Just put a damned Aimpoint Comp M4 on your pistol. :p

deuce9166

02-12-10, 20:00

Thanks Kelly you saved me some cash that will be better spent on more ammo anyway.

montanadave

02-13-10, 07:36

I was initially intrigued with these sights but my questions have been asked and answered. Thanks for the review.

sigmundsauer

02-13-10, 08:18

Excessively short sight radius = GAY

Tim

KellyTTE

02-13-10, 08:36

Excessively short sight radius = GAY

Tim

No sight radius at at.:rolleyes:

Excessively opinionated with little or no real world, hands on time = GAY.

Steve_Morrison

02-13-10, 17:15

Does a pistol equipped with these sights fit into a standard holster?

KellyTTE

02-13-10, 20:38

They fit in both my BladeTech OWB and my Raven Concealment Phantom. They did not fit inside the hood of my Blackhawk Level II light bearing holster.

sigmundsauer

02-14-10, 17:21

No sight radius at at.:rolleyes:

Excessively opinionated with little or not real world, hands on time = GAY.

I've handled enough weapons and tried enough contraptions to recognize a gimmick when I see one.

The inability to form a conclusion based off of the physics of the system is a sure indicator of a liberal mind + over sensitivity = stay in the closet sister.

Tim

KellyTTE

02-14-10, 18:04

I've handled enough weapons and tried enough contraptions to recognize a gimmick when I see one.

The inability to form a conclusion based off of the physics of the system is a sure indicator of a liberal mind + over sensitivity = stay in the closet sister.

Tim

If your theory had merit, the 0" sight radius of an Aimpoint or similar red dot would not work.

For all your posturing and 'physics' claims, your posts have a effective range of 0 meters so far.

sigmundsauer

02-14-10, 21:51

If your theory had merit, the 0" sight radius of an Aimpoint or similar red dot would not work.

For all your posturing and 'physics' claims, your posts have a effective range of 0 meters so far.

Then you're the one that doesn't understand holographic sights like the Aimpoint. They are a different matter altogether.

Look, I sincerely didn't mean to take corners with you. Perhaps my language was too strong. I apologize. I think the sight offers no improvement of speed or accuracy over conventional sights. If I'm wrong, then the industry will embrace it.

Tim

KellyTTE

02-14-10, 21:59

Yes, oddly enough when you enter a thread and pronounce something 'GAY' without referencing the points made in my critique saying (for specific reasons) that the sights are unsuitable, then that encourages less positive discourse. Funny how that works.

And yes, I do understand holographic sights, guttersnipe sights, etc, etc, and no, this system has interesting features from several sight systems, but is substantially unlike any of them.

No harm, no foul.

lethal dose

02-21-10, 08:50

As Todd stated, accuracy at speed would be an issue. It's kinda like the diopters on an hk... the concept works on a rifle, but with virtually no sight radius and the recoil of a pistol... eh... I dono. good concept, but not all that practical. Thanks for the overview.

FromMyColdDeadHand

02-21-10, 10:47

At this point I have 0 range time except for the simulator that they were running there. I will say this, for people who have trouble shooting regular pistol notch & post pistol sights stereoscopically (both eyes open, which I do), these are much easier since you only have two items (rear sight and target) as opposed to three items (front sight, rear sight, target), so the stereoscopic overlap is a bit smoother (to me).

The stereo issue I think is the one real advantage of this kind of sight. Only one eye can see the dots at one time, right? I tried to do something similar with the front bead sight on a shotgun, but I never got it to work well, and it is amazing how practice negates the need for gizmos. I've spent hours and hours and thousands of draws and dryfires to finally get comfortable shooting stereoscopicly with a handgun.

We see with our brain, not with our eyes.