View Full Version : Why no one invades Switzerland
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/754.html
I have no real facts on this, but he presents some very valid ideas. I did not look real hard, but didn't find anything here already. Every American needs to feel this way.
LockenLoad
01-25-10, 18:24
mountain passes
citizensoldier16
01-25-10, 19:05
"the ammunition is provided by the government"
Why the hell did we let ourselves F*** up our government so much?! WE COULDA HAD FREE AMMO COURTESY OF THE GOV"T!!!
The only socialist country I could live in.
Gutshot John
01-25-10, 19:13
The only socialist country I could live in.
You must be talking about a different Switzerland.
Unemployment stands at <4%.
But you must only fire Sigs? I dont know, I like variety ;)
But you must only fire Sigs? I dont know, I like variety ;)
Good piont, but could it be so no matter where you are, everyone might have the same so if you have to use theirs, every one would be the same, for the average "Joe Citizen"?
What's up with the range they were shooting at? Besides having to shoot throught the "tubes" it looks like the rifles where chained down.
What's up with the range they were shooting at? Besides having to shoot through the "tubes" it looks like the rifles where chained down.
It doesn't look like a very strong chain, maybe just enough to keep some one who doesn't know enough to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. After all, this is the gen population they are talking about here.
You must be talking about a different Switzerland.
Unemployment stands at <4%.
I said socialist, not communist. The current political party in power is the socialist party.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 14:46
I said socialist, not communist. The current political party in power is the socialist party.
Having socialists in government doesn't equate to a socialist economy. Two different things.
Switzerland is indeed a capitalist country, if you don't believe me ask all the bankers.
Having socialists in government doesn't equate to a socialist economy. Two different things.
Switzerland is indeed a capitalist country, if you don't believe me ask all the bankers.
Lots of socialist countries run capitalist, to some degree, economies. See China, most of Western Europe, etc.
The question is what does their healthcare system, their social security equivalent system, etc look like.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 14:53
Lots of socialist countries run capitalist, to some degree, economies. See China, most of Western Europe, etc.
The question is what does their healthcare system, their social security equivalent system, etc look like.
Uhm no but if you want to apply that definition I guess we're a socialist country too.
Socialism is common ownership of the means of production.
There are about 5 socialist countries that I know of: North Korea, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba and maybe one or two others.
Uhm no but if you want to apply that definition I guess we're a socialist country too.
in some ways we are.
Socialism is common ownership of the means of production.
There are about 5 socialist countries that I know of: North Korea, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba and maybe one or two others.
In your strict definition I would doubt China, and Vietnam, at least.
In your textbook definition sure, socialism does not really exist except in a few places, and even that is in doubt.
There are lots of flavors of ownership of means of production. Maybe free in one area, govt controlled in another. Socialized medicine, for example, is govt control over the production of healthcare. Ditto for production of "retirement system" activity.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 15:16
Uhm that would also be incorrect.
We are not a socialist economy... elements of socialism (like health care, social security) don't equate to a socialist economy any more than elements of capitalism equate to a capitalist economy.
What definition are you using?
Capitalism=private ownership of the means of production.
Socialism=common ownership of the means of production.
If you don't think China and Vietnam are socialist economies we're clearly not speaking the same language and certainly won't find any common ground.
Uhm that would also be incorrect.
We are not a socialist economy... elements of socialism (like health care, social security) don't equate to a socialist economy. What definition are you using? or are you just making it up as you go?
Capitalism=private ownership of the means of production.
Socialism=common ownership of the means of production.
If you don't think China and Vietnam are socialist economies we're clearly not speaking the same language and certainly won't find any common ground.
China has lots of privately owned factories and so does Vietnam. Now.
I merely said that using a strict definition you would probably find very few socialist economies. You are more likely to find pieces of economies that are socialist.
I'd also like to point out that SteyrAUG said "socialist country", not "socialist economy."
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 16:05
I'd also like to point out that SteyrAUG said "socialist country", not "socialist economy."
Socialism is NOT a form of government. Socialism is a form of economy. We are a constitutional federal republic as a form of government. We are a capitalist economy.
How can it be a "socialist country" if it doesn't have a socialist economy?
The overwhelming majority of Chinese factories are owned by the state. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say that no more than 10% are privately owned and those are the smaller/local ones.
Again elements of a capitalist economy don't make it a capitalist country.
Socialism is NOT a form of government. Socialism is a form of economy. We are a constitutional federal republic as a form of government. We are a capitalist economy.
How can it be a "socialist country" if it doesn't have a socialist economy?
very easy. by having adopted elements of socialism in their economy.
The overwhelming majority of Chinese factories are owned by the state. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say that no more than 10% are privately owned and those are the smaller/local ones.
By your own admission, then, China is not a socialist economy as the govt does not control the means of production. They control some of the means of production but not all.
Again elements of a capitalist economy don't make it a capitalist country.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 16:41
very easy. by having adopted elements of socialism in their economy.
That's no definition at all. Basically then every country is socialist and every country is capitalist. That's absurd since it renders any distinction sophomoric and meaningless.
By your own admission, then, China is not a socialist economy as the govt does not control the means of production. They control some of the means of production but not all.
Nonsense.
They control the overwhelming majority of the means of production.
Use some basic common sense.
That's no definition at all. Basically then every country is socialist and every country is capitalist. That's absurd since it renders any distinction meaningless.
When a country has adopted a significant amount of socialism (govt control of the economy) then it would be appropriate.
Use some common sense!
They control the overwhelming majority of the means of production.
Apply basic common sense.
I am applying basic common sense to your definitions.
I would be interested for a verifiable reference on how much of the "means of production" the government now owns.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 16:45
I would be interested for a verifiable reference on how much of the "means of production" the government now owns.
You have google. Use it, while you're at it ask whether China is a socialist economy...ask whether Switzerland is.
I'm betting the consensus agrees with me. In fact I've got $20 that it says you're flat wrong.
You have google. Use it, while you're at it ask whether China is a socialist economy...ask whether Switzerland is.
I'm betting the consensus agrees with me. In fact I've got $20 that it says you're flat wrong.
I did not make the claim of 10%. You did. You back it up.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 16:50
I did not make the claim of 10%. You did. You back it up.
I said if I had to "hazard a guess".
You made the claim China isn't a socialist economy and that Switzerland is...
You back it up.
Honestly you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 16:54
In terms of contributed tax revenue, China’s domestic private enterprises (DPEs) have witnessed an annual increase of over 40 percent since 2000. In 2005, tax payments from private [domestic] enterprises and individual entrepreneurs made up 8.8% and 4.5% of the national tax revenue, respectively. The rest came from state-owned enterprises, FIEs and JVs.
www.ceibs.edu/ccpe_c/images/20080125/8560.doc
Ok so like 13% private ownership...that makes...87% state ownership.
That's socialism if I ever heard it.
You can keep the $20 buy yourself an economics "textbook."
www.ceibs.edu/ccpe_c/images/20080125/8560.doc
Ok so like 13% private ownership...that makes...87% state ownership.
That's socialism if I ever heard it.
You can keep the $20 buy yourself an economics "textbook."
Tax revenue is not ownership.
I said if I had to "hazard a guess".
You made the claim China isn't a socialist economy and that Switzerland is...
I made no such claim. I said, roughly, that Switzerland could be considered a socialist COUNTRY (not economy) depending on how much of their economy was socialized -- healthcase, retirement / social security / etc.
I said China was not a socialist economy based on your academic definition. You brought up the whole socialist economy thing in the first place. We were talking about socialist countries -- ones that have adopted socialism to a certain extent -- govt control over aspects of the economy, pieces like healthcare, social security types of programs, etc
You back it up.
Honestly you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
As much or more than you do. You want to pick nits where it is not needed. I am picking nits back at you.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 17:07
Clearly you don't know what you're talking about and certainly can't admit you're wrong.
Oh well enjoy yourself.
Clearly you can't admit you're wrong.
Oh well enjoy yourself.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Uhm no but if you want to apply that definition I guess we're a socialist country too.
Socialism is common ownership of the means of production.
There are about 5 socialist countries that I know of: North Korea, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba and maybe one or two others.
Well if the party in power in the US was the Socialist Democratic Party of the United States then I think it would be fair to call us socialist. In Switzerland the government is the Socialist Democratic Party of Switzerland.
Gutshot John
01-26-10, 17:29
Well if the party in power in the US was the Socialist Democratic Party of the United States then I think it would be fair to call us socialist. In Switzerland the government is the Socialist Democratic Party of Switzerland.
If that's the definition you want to chose that's your choice but it doesn't jive with commonly-held definitions of socialism.
Google "what is socialism?" and see what you find.
Alpha Sierra
01-26-10, 18:14
http://www.tomuphoto.com/news/images/Train%20wreck.jpg
LockenLoad
01-26-10, 21:08
still no one invades them because of the mountain passes, really not much to capture more easily by passed, back to the ops post
had a friend on Maui that was from Switzerland he was on the Swiss surf team and decided to Move to Maui since the surf was better and less travel was required :)
he used to come back with suitcases of cheese he missed :) stuff in a tube ???
I like the chocolate from their :)
If that's the definition you want to chose that's your choice but it doesn't jive with commonly-held definitions of socialism.
Google "what is socialism?" and see what you find.
I don't have a lot invested in this topic so I'm really not worried about winning the debate. But when the party in power uses the words "socialist" and "democratic" in their own name, I would wager there is a bit of socialism going on.
Perhaps not as much as some socialist countries, but more than a few that many consider socialist.
http://www.tomuphoto.com/news/images/Train%20wreck.jpg
[facepalm] Big time [/sighs]
completely unrelated to original post....
Is it me or has arguing and internet bickering quadrupled in the past month or so on M4C?:confused:
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