View Full Version : M4 stock opinions
Howdy gents...I've got a Magpul CTR commercial stock on order for my Oly K3B-M4, but I'm curious what the consensus is reference the LMT Crane & Vltor Clubfoot stocks? I would like to have the added security of having storage compartments for extra 3volt batteries to feed my Surefire M900A should it fail, however, it's not a necessity given the outrageous price of LMt's kits. I do like having a stock with a built in butt pad like the CTR I'm waiting on. The improved stock weld would be a plus as well.
I got by just fine with the fiberlite stock that came with my M4 when I was on AD, but I'm growing ever irritated with the same stock that's on my Oly now. But, we didn't have back then all these kewl looking & seemingly functioninal stocks that I've listed above & I've never had expierence with them. I'm aware if I buy a Crane of Clubfoot that I'll need the mil-spec extension. For you killers that own any or all three, what do you have to say about them? Thanks in advance for the intel!
(If it makes a difference when offering your opinion, I'm upgrading my M4 for continued use as my UPR, entry weapon & of course, as defense of my hootch should the claymores hidden in my hedges fail).
I think battery storage is really overrated. Keep your batteries where you keep your ready ammo.
You'll really like the CTR, I like mine a lot. Good solid no nonsense stock.
I prefer the CTR, then the Crane.
LukeMacGillie
04-01-07, 20:21
I think battery storage is really overrated. Keep your batteries where you keep your ready ammo.
You'll really like the CTR, I like mine a lot. Good solid no nonsense stock.
So Tikka, did you design the Molle pouch to hold surfire batteries? Do you mount your batter carrier high or low :D (All in good fun)
I dont use any of the storage compartments on my stocks/pistol grips.
I really like the Crane stock over the Vltor, but own more vltors than SOPMOD's
. . . I would like to have the added security of having storage compartments for extra 3volt batteries . . .
. . . price . . .
Since you mentioned both battery storage and price, you may wish to look at the butt stocks made by Command Arms Accessories (the same people who do FOBUS). I have two of their CBS stocks and I really like them. I haven't had them that long, but one of them has served well in a 3-day carbine class in winter conditions and some 3-gun matches as well. If you look at the photo below, you will see the storage for batteries. You can actually switch which side you want the door, and on the opposite side of the stock is a short polymer picatinny rail upon which you can mount a variety of things including a spare mag carrier. The holes you see are points where you can attach quick-detach sling swivels (also sold by CAA), so you can mount your sling either fore or aft, port or starboard.
http://www.commandarms.com/thumb.asp?myheight=350&mywidth=350&image=img/productImages/CBS16/REM-3500.jpg http://www.commandarms.com/thumb.asp?myheight=350&mywidth=350&image=img/productImages/CBST_72dpi.jpg
Here is a link to the butt stock. It's about $55 for just the stock: CAA CBS (http://www.commandarms.com/product.asp?pID=87&cID=57)
. . . and if you need the whole kit, is about $78: CAA CBST (http://www.commandarms.com/product.asp?pID=119&cID=57)
So Tikka, did you design the Molle pouch to hold surfire batteries? Do you mount your batter carrier high or low :D (All in good fun)
I dont use any of the storage compartments on my stocks/pistol grips.
I really like the Crane stock over the Vltor, but own more vltors than SOPMOD's
I love my Defender 2000 SOPMOD M4
its so solid and with a extra, extra heavy buffer it stays on Target
Dont carry any BATTERIES in my SOPMOD I use a ML2 with Larue cantilever
I carry a few 123 bats in the BATTLE GRIP for surefire
My VLTOR reg TELE is just OKAY little loose
I like VLTOR Finish on there EXT
My VLTOR coil spring seems EXTRA strong
I wont buy another
I would rather bought the magpul CTR
and gave it a try
CarlosDJackal
04-19-07, 15:09
Extra battery compartments are only relevant if you plan on an extended deployment where you cannot access the spares that you should have in your gun case. Otherwise, I wouldn't use that as an argument against the CTR - which I have and cannot recommend enough. That sucker locks onto the buffer tube pretty solid.
Now if I can only get rid of the rattle I get from the upper and lower receivers themselves.
On the new CAA stock how is the fit? The standard 6osition stocks drive ne nuts with the rattle. When I was overseas I would stick cardboard inside to quiet it down.
Also Everyone with the Vltor is it loose?
Rock-N-Ruin
04-19-07, 20:52
The CAA fifty dollar cheapie has been just that for the 2 months I've had it, it's a little on the loose side, as stated above... Their battery compartment sucks as it tends to come open if you try and keep batteries in it.
I prefer to store all the extra parts and batts in a "go bag" etc..
and keep the carbine as light as possible..
However, for $50.00 (commercial stock piece only) the rubber buttpadd is about the only thing on there I like.. I'll just toss it on a plinker for my daughter down the road, and install and LMT or Vltor on my primary... J
On the new CAA stock how is the fit? The standard 6osition stocks drive ne nuts with the rattle. When I was overseas I would stick cardboard inside to quiet it down.
It's got a little rattle to it, but I think that's because I have a mil-spec buffer tube and the CAA is probably sized to fit over any buffer tube. It doesn't bother me as much as the rattle of the handguard!
I've not had trouble with the battery compartment, although the plastic picatinny rail doesn't hold the mag carrier accessory very well.
It's definitely nice than the "standard" 6-position stocks, and reasonably priced.
The sling attachment points are convenient too.
While I'm not going on any extended deployments, I keep batteries in my stock and a spare bolt in my VFG. I honestly had forgotten that the bolt was even there.:o I just like knowing where my stuff is, and it seems like my range bags keep getting dumped out and rearranged all the time. I have batteries in the bags, but I prefer them in the stock.
In general I agree though, if you like the CTR stock then don't let the lack of storage dissuade you.
CarlosDJackal
04-20-07, 22:11
On the new CAA stock how is the fit? The standard 6osition stocks drive ne nuts with the rattle. When I was overseas I would stick cardboard inside to quiet it down...
I also have this stock and it rattles (as most others outside of the CTR). I actually took the battery compartment out because it popped open in the middle of a TR Fighting Rifle class plus the picatinny rail on the right side dug right into my forearm.
The stock offers a good alternative for someone who can only afford around $50 for a stock that has a built-in rubber pad. But had I known about the CTR before I bought this one (if it was already available), I would have never bought it. YMMV.
Rhino- I don't believe that's how mil-spec versus commercial stocks work...
Furthermore-- CAA isn't the benchmark for quality although they come up with interesting ideas.
The CTR stock is probably the most well built stock out there. IMHO.
Rhino- I don't believe that's how mil-spec versus commercial stocks work...
Okay. I thought mil-spec tubes were a specific diameter, and some commercial tubes were a bit larger with a noticeable "step."
Regardless of the details of why and the specs of the tubes, the fact is that the stock rattles pretty much like most of the M4-styles stocks I've seen and/or used.
Furthermore-- CAA isn't the benchmark for quality although they come up with interesting ideas.
Is this put words in my mouth weekend? Am I missing something?
I just said it was nicer than the run of the mill 6-position M4-style stocks and a decent deal for the money. In my original message, I noted that the original message mentioned both price and battery storage and I thought the CAA was worth considering. The CAA stock has a reasonable price for what you get and it has battery storage.
The idea that I'd imply or state that CAA is some exemplar for high quality parts is ... a non-sequitur. In fact, some of their stuff is crap. Their flashlight mounts are crap. Some of their earlier holsters (i.e. some of the FOBUS) are crap. The mag carrier/plastic picatinny rail on the stock is crap. That doesn't change the fact that I believe the stock itself is a reasonably priced, useful piece of equipment.
Sure, if money were not an issue, we'd all have the best of the best and such topics would not be necessary. It is an issue for me (and apparently the guy who started the topic to whom I was replying). The two CAA stocks I have are better in just about every way than the M4-ish stocks they replaced and they cost less. Shooting with them works very well for me. I've had zero problems with the battery compartment opening when I did not choose to open it. They rattle, just like the stocks they replaced. The rattle doesn't bother me. It may not be anywhere near the upgrade of a Magpul or VLTOR or the like, but it's definitely an upgrade from the collapsible stocks that come on most of the factory-rifles nowadays.
And now that I've re-read the original message more carefully, I see why my suggestion probably doesn't "fit the profile." The CAA is clearly not in the same league as the products specifically mentioned, and my response does not address the specific questions asked about the products mentioned. Of course, I'm frequently guilty of topic drift, but my suggestion seemed to be pretty close to the topic. My apologies for that bit of divergence.
Sorry if I put words in your mouth.
I know that you don't think CAA is the be all end all of stocks- if you did, you'd have stuck around on ARF, right? You know where it's at! ;)
Sorry if I put words in your mouth.
I know that you don't think CAA is the be all end all of stocks- if you did, you'd have stuck around on ARF, right? You know where it's at! ;)
Hah!
Actually, I still go there, but it's just in the Indiana Hometown, and then the training and competition and ammunition forums. I avoid the general discussion and most other areas like the plague.
Indiana hometown? Where at in Indiana?
I'm in NW Lake County...
Montgomery Co ... a few hours directly south of you in US231.
I try to avoid your neck of the woods.
Is that just East of Vigo County? Is Vigo the "tall" county? I went to school in Terre Haute for a year. Very boring- well, the town was. I wasn't ;)
Is that just East of Vigo County? Is Vigo the "tall" county? I went to school in Terre Haute for a year. Very boring- well, the town was. I wasn't ;)
Mont. Co. is immediately south of Tippecanoe Co. (Lafayette). Mont. Co. folk stay away from region folk lol. In Lafayette we have a good mix of both. Here we call Mont. Co. northern KY :D
Is that just East of Vigo County? Is Vigo the "tall" county? I went to school in Terre Haute for a year. Very boring- well, the town was. I wasn't ;)
The "tall county" is Vermillion, just north of Vigo Co. and on the Illinois border. Montgomery is northeast of Vigo. I'm in the county directly south of Lafayette's county (Tippecanoe).
I assume you went to ISU?
Mont. Co. is immediately south of Tippecanoe Co. (Lafayette). Mont. Co. folk stay away from region folk lol. In Lafayette we have a good mix of both. Here we call Mont. Co. northern KY :D
Oh, have your fun now, Lafayette Boy! At least we don't try to cram a million tons of cars into a 250K tons of cars sack like Sagamore Parkway! :D
Do you shoot at Wildcat? I shoot the NRA Action Pistol, IDPA and 3-gun there when I can make it. I had to miss the last 3-gun because of our pistol match at Atlanta.
LOL...you aint kidding about Sagamore Pkwy. I'm an leo here, but don't shoot any matches. Junior NRA was the last time I shot in competition other than here when we have our range comp's at work once or twice a year to determine a dept high shooter.
Hell no I didn't go to school with the Hautians at ISU. I went to Rose at the East end of the city.
I did belong to a fraternity on 5th just south of 40(?)
It was a fun time...
LOL...you aint kidding about Sagamore Pkwy. I'm an leo here, but don't shoot any matches. Junior NRA was the last time I shot in competition other than here when we have our range comp's at work once or twice a year to determine a dept high shooter.
Consider yourself invited to join us both at Wildcat (I'm not a member there) and at AtlantaCC (I'm in charge of the USPSA pistol and help with the USPSA 3-gun). You'd really enjoy the 3-gun/multi-gun matches at both clubs.
Hell no I didn't go to school with the Hautians at ISU. I went to Rose at the East end of the city.
I did belong to a fraternity on 5th just south of 40(?)
It was a fun time...
I'm slightly familiar with Rose-Hulman. I graduated from there in 1987 (BSME). :D
You must have been a Fiji, Sigma Nu, or Delta Sigma Phi if you were in town on 5th. I lived on S 7th on about the same block as the Fiji house. A bunch of my buddies were members there too (1983-87).
Rock-N-Ruin
04-24-07, 06:45
what was this thread about again????
Anyway, I just dumped the CAA stock, and picked up a VLTOR complete kit, it's only a 5 position instead of a six and it seems a little shorter. to answer a question on the first page: it rattles also... Guess I'll try an LMT SOPMOD next...The buffer spring is definately stronger! However mine may have just gotten soft, but it was only a couple months old or 1500 rounds old.. Now to answer the mil spec vs. non mil spec question, The mil spec tube is 1.150 OD. and the commercial tube is 1.170 OD , that's taken from the thread listed below... J
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=101
Thanks for trying to steer us back off topic again R'n'R :p
Yeah, Delta Sig.
What if I had said Theta Zi? HAH!
Anyway, I just dumped the CAA stock, and picked up a VLTOR complete kit, it's only a 5 position instead of a six and it seems a little shorter. to answer a question on the first page: it rattles also... Guess I'll try an LMT SOPMOD next...
I think the CAA stock is a little longer because of the thickness of the rubber buttplate. I wish they'd shortened the rigid parts a little to account for it.
General question:
Sounds like the Magpul CTR is one of the few telescoping stocks that doesn't rattle just a little. Is the rattle just an annoyance thing for most people, or does it interfere with your shooting in some way?
I've never had a problem with the rattle, whether annoyed or actual physical problem shooting with it. I've seen pictures of various SPRs from Iraq with the Crane/LMT stock on them and they rattle as much as the Vltor or other stock so I doubt it's an issue.
With that said, the CTR is still a very very nice stock if you have no use for the storage. It may, in fact, be such a nice stock that it's even worth not having the storage. Since I've had a beard for the past 6 months or so I'm starting to get annoyed at being pinched by the Vltor.
With that said, the CTR is still a very very nice stock if you have no use for the storage. It may, in fact, be such a nice stock that it's even worth not having the storage. Since I've had a beard for the past 6 months or so I'm starting to get annoyed at being pinched by the Vltor.
It (the CTR) also looks like it's really light ... is that the case? If so, I may have to save some pennies to help save some ounces.
It (the CTR) also looks like it's really light ... is that the case? If so, I may have to save some pennies to help save some ounces.
It's less than a pound. The Vltor is just a hair over a pound.
Although I'm not sure I should be discussing weight with you again so soon.:p
Shame on you. That should have had a ;) at the end at least.
It's less than a pound. The Vltor is just a hair over a pound.
Although I'm not sure I should be discussing weight with you again so soon.:p
But it's muy importante to a guy like me ... if I have to carry me around, it helps to minimize the weight o' the gear, right?
Hah!
On the subject of equipment weight....
I'm a very big fan of lightweight as long as the quality and performance of the carbine don't suffer because of it.
I got in alot of arguments on TOS with people who said "you just have to work out more" that evidently didn't understand that no matter how strong you are you're going to be able to carry less weight for longer. After 3 days of a training class every ounce counts.
On the subject of equipment weight....
I'm a very big fan of lightweight as long as the quality and performance of the carbine don't suffer because of it.
I got in alot of arguments on TOS with people who said "you just have to work out more" that evidently didn't understand that no matter how strong you are you're going to be able to carry less weight for longer. After 3 days of a training class every ounce counts.
Amen. I'm probably in the 95th percentile of upper body strength even without training much, but I still want my rifle as light as I can get it. Albeit I fatigue significantly faster over all than almost every one else (put me in the 5th percentil on that!), I know I can hang on a little longer with less weight in my hands. Also, I think helps you last longer even if the fatigue is primarily mental.
There aren't many significant advantages to a heavier gun either, and the disadvantages far outweigh them in my book.
Robb Jensen
04-25-07, 20:18
I'm a big fan of lighter rifles as well. I find that I can 'drive' a lighter rifle or pistol significantly faster especially when engaging multiple targets. With a lighter rifle or pistol I don't tend to swing the rifle/pistol past the target and have to come back (less momentum).
kill4thrills
04-27-07, 17:21
I'd say Magpul CTR stock...built rock solid.
If you want to carry a few batteries get the Magpul MIAD grip and store a couple extra batteries there...nice feeling grip...love mine...
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