Do You Trust 5.56??? Poll

[ztf HITMAN]

Okay, I know we have 5.56 haters out there. And we have loyalists. When it comes down to it, and you're family's in danger (insert hypothetical home invasion scenario here) Do you trust the 5.56 round (proper HD load such as 75g TAP or similar) to stop the BGs and protect you and yours? Do you feel adequately armed, or underpowered?

I know it's been beat to death, but polls show what ppl think and I want to know!!! Personally, with a good round, I am quite confident in the 5.56.

[smokey0118]

people trust 9mm as HD guns all the time. i don't see why they wouldn't trust a ready supply of 30 5.56 that'll penetrate soft body armor just fine and do a variety of damage once in the BG. Also the round limits the collateral damage from all those missed shots you may send flying into a wall instead of BG. If the 5.56 doesn't do the trick i suppose the 30-06 BAR will have to finish them off.

[DocGKR]

I've trusted a 5.56 mm since 1986--they work fine; that does not mean, however, that a somewhat larger caliber wouldn't perform better, especially if intermediate barriers are a concern...

http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/1823542651571.jpg

[SWATcop556]

I trust the 5.56 for many situations but it depends on the situation. There is a ton of info regarding its ballistic performance in the Ballistics threads. Doc Roberts has some great data and photos of different rounds and their performance.

**edit**

Doc you snuck in there before my post went through. Thanks!

[ztf HITMAN]

I trust the 5.56 for many situations but it depends on the situation. There is a ton of info regarding its ballistic performance in the Ballistics threads. Doc Roberts has some great data and photos of different rounds and their performance.

**edit**

Doc you snuck in there before my post went through. Thanks!

I've checked out the Terminal Ballistics section pretty frequently. I just wanted to condense this into a 'Poll' thread to see the consensus. I'm a civvie, so any shooting would most likely not involve an extensive barricaded perp situation. It would probably be a direct and close engagement in my home. I have full confidence esp. having 28-30 rds ready to go.

[YVK]

ztf, I honestly don't remember seeing arguments that 5.56 is an insufficient round for home defence applications. The discussions that I see more commonly is if it is too much of a round, on account of perceived fear of overpenetration etc. Surely, there are folks who love 6.8, and there are ones who like 12 gauge. And, owing to many informative posts here, we know that 5.56 is not to be considered a one-shot-one-kill round. Nonetheless, while I may expect some specific preferences, I doubt we'll see voters denouncing 5.56 in your poll. It is M4C, after all.

[chadbag]

Yes I trust it (not through personal experience, I am a fatbody wannabe who is working to train appropriately and get into better shape etc) because I have faith in the data and opinions presented here and elsewhere by those who do know.

That does not mean I trust ONLY the 5.56. I am slowly working on two almost identical carbines -- one in 6.8 and one in 5.56. They won't be 100% identical but very close so that I can pick either one up if need be and be familiar and trained with it. (and doing actual drills with both)

[SWATcop556]

I've checked out the Terminal Ballistics section pretty frequently. I just wanted to condense this into a 'Poll' thread to see the consensus. I'm a civvie, so any shooting would most likely not involve an extensive barricaded perp situation. It would probably be a direct and close engagement in my home. I have full confidence esp. having 28-30 rds ready to go.

For your applications I would have no worries using the 5.56. I would feel safer with it than a shotgun with 00.

[ztf HITMAN]

For your applications I would have no worries using the 5.56. I would feel safer with it than a shotgun with 00.

wouldn't 00 buck penetrate more than 5.56??

[ztf HITMAN]

ztf, I honestly don't remember seeing arguments that 5.56 is an insufficient round for home defence applications. The discussions that I see more commonly is if it is too much of a round, on account of perceived fear of overpenetration etc. Surely, there are folks who love 6.8, and there are ones who like 12 gauge. And, owing to many informative posts here, we know that 5.56 is not to be considered a one-shot-one-kill round. Nonetheless, while I may expect some specific preferences, I doubt we'll see voters denouncing 5.56 in your poll. It is M4C, after all.

I know, it's pretty redundant, I apologize....

[carolvs]

I trust shot placement.

[ztf HITMAN]

I trust shot placement.

Yes...That's where training comes in...muscle memory. Only hits count.

[Sarge45]

Absolutely against a soft target. Not so confident against a hard target.

[SWATcop556]

wouldn't 00 buck penetrate more than 5.56??

Yes. That's why I would rather have the 5.56 over the 00.

[Iraqgunz]

I have seen first hand what happens when people are perforated with the 5.56. It's not something I would care to experience.

[Oscar 319]

The Federal 62 grn Tactical Bonded (LE223T3) I am issued has had very good results in our (and other agencies) OIS's I am aware of. I have complete confidence in this round.

My LE223T3 mags are backed by M193, which I am still OK with if needed (God forbid I need more than 4 mags!).

[Belmont31R]

Yes I trust it, and even moreso as better loadings keep coming out.

[Army Chief]

I trust shot placement. Put it in the right place, and even a .22LR will do the job nicely.

All else being equal, I suppose I would opt for 6.8 in a perfect world, but I've no concerns with 5.56x45mm; especially when any care at all is taken in selecting loads.

AC

[lanceriley]

Id trust 5.56mm.

ofcourse shot placement is king.

[geminidglocker]

I don't have neighbors within trajectory range, and I live alone, so over penetration is not an issue for me. 28 rounds of 5.56 should handle pretty much everything.:)

[FVC3]

Okay, I know we have 5.56 haters out there. And we have loyalists. When it comes down to it, and you're family's in danger (insert hypothetical home invasion scenario here) Do you trust the 5.56 round (proper HD load such as 75g TAP or similar) to stop the BGs and protect you and yours? .

I trust my training and my shot placement. 5.56 will get the job done if I do my part.

[motoduck]

My goto bag has 5.56. Shot placement is the key. The foundation is training and practice. I also find Ammo choice important.

[wintermute]

I trust 5.56. That being said, I also trust 00 buck. It's a toss-up. Heck, pepper someone with .22LR at in-house distances and they're not going to be in the mood to do you harm.

[Outlander Systems]

I trust 5.56...

That being said, I think the military should just switch to 10mm carbines, for cutting through enemy armoured vehicles, and as an all-purpose, anti-personnel round. With a 10mm carbine fielded, artillery would reach obsolescence overnight.

The problem is that the Hague Convention explicitly prohibits the use of 10mm; it's simply too devastating.

As well, the FBI had to remove 10mm from service, as too many SAs were being thrown 20' in the air from the massive, unbridled, recoil.

At any rate, yes, I trust 5.56.

[Ash Hess]

I have seen 5.56 do amazing things. From 600meter kills, to ice pick thru a guy a 20. Yes, in works. Is there better, sure, but better at what for and what price.

[C4IGrant]

All I want to know is who voted for the 911 "dial-a-prayer" option??


C4

[Marcus L.]

If you're using 62gr green tip, then sometimes the 5.56 works quite well, and sometimes it does not. Use something that yaws more quickly like most commercial OTM loads and it is quite effective. If you're worried about car windshields, then the ideal load would be a bonded soft point like Federal Tactical Bonded. If I use good ammo, I have full confidence in the 5.56 even at longer ranges.

As DocGKR pointed out, there are ALWAYS better calibers than what you are presently using. The 6.8 SPC will do many things better than 5.56, and the 7.62 NATO will do many things better than 6.8 SPC. Given equal bullet technology, the larger caliber will always perform better against all things. However, I love how light 5.56 ammo is, how controllable it is, how cheap practice ammo is, and how widely available and supported 5.56 is.

If you're concerned about some of the talk of replacing the 5.56, this talk has been going on since Vietnam. 6mm SAW ring a bell? Until the 5.56 is actually replaced by something else, I'd stick with 5.56. Given the widespread acceptance of the 5.56 by NATO and many other countries, I'm willing to bet it will be in service for many decades to come. Most likely the cartridge will be modernized with better bullet designs. Something like an OTM with a steel core perhaps?

That doesn't mean you shouldn't expand your collection to include rifles in 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 though ;)

[EzGoingKev]

I feel it is more than adequate for civilian defense coming out of my 16" barreled M4.

I would like my next rifle to be a 10.5" SBR and for that I will step up to 6.8 SPC though.

[SHIVAN]

If someone can "walk through" a solid hit with 5.56, then the great thing about the typical 5.56 weapon platform is that you can deliver another closely spaced round until the threat can not simply "walk through" it.

[ForTehNguyen]

theres a reason why russia and china copied our 5.56mm round (the 5.45mm and 5.8mm) and did not go with the 7.62x39 or similar round.

moral of the story: theres no magic bullet that can do everything good, despite the military trying to chase it at times.

[Kalash]

I trust shot placement.


I agree.

[ztf HITMAN]

All I want to know is who voted for the 911 "dial-a-prayer" option??


C4

Yes! Speak up...and I hope you weren't serious...

[ztf HITMAN]

If someone can "walk through" a solid hit with 5.56, then the great thing about the typical 5.56 weapon platform is that you can deliver another closely spaced round until the threat can not simply "walk through" it.

Yes, indeed. A defensive scenario with 5.56 would likely involve multiple shots.

[Failure2Stop]

I've trusted a 5.56 mm since 1986--they work fine; that does not mean, however, that a somewhat larger caliber wouldn't perform better, especially if intermediate barriers are a concern...


This.

[dtibbals]

I do trust it, I run Hornady TAP 75 grain HP. I do prefer my 308 but 556 is more practical for everyday use.

[Daekwan]

I feel it is more than adequate for civilian defense coming out of my 16" barreled M4.

This.

What exactly are you guys trying to put down, on your property, that 30rnds of 5.56 cant handle.

[ztf HITMAN]

This.

What exactly are you guys trying to put down, on your property, that 30rnds of 5.56 cant handle.

Down Here in the Swamps of South Louisiana, who knows??? Black bear, alligator, big ass Coy-Dogs....

[texag]

I absolutely trust 5.56 for my purposes. The 10 yds from the top of the stairs to the bottom is gonna be child's play for 28 rds of 69gr matchkings. If 6.8 could even come close to matching the price and availability of 5.56 I would prefer it, but it doesn't so I don't.

[BT2012]

For home defense, I trust it and it is more than adequate for close and intermediate range. I would lean towards using tactical loads instead of FMJ.

[xjustintimex]

Yes! Speak up...and I hope you weren't serious...

haha I wasnt serious :D

[LMTRocks]

I had someone tell me giving me a "hard time" about selling my 5.56 LMT barrel & bolt to upgrade to a 6.5 Grendel. He said I "could train with a .22 conversion much more cheaply." I told him my police academy class trained with several thousand rounds of .40/155gr and would carry that and I said "so why doesn't my academy run their guns in .22 and carry .40s?" I also told him that training doesn't involve just trigger time---it's actually becoming accustomed to the recoil of the weapon, learning control for follow-up shots, becoming accustomed to carrying the weight of the gun loaded in 40, having to consider the number of shots taken before you reload, and my last reason was "I don't want to have any bullet in my arsenal that is less than 100 grains." Were it not for the 20rds of TNT 90gr 6.5G I found at a steal I wouldn't...everything else is 115gr or heavier. I'm not saying 5.56 75gr TAP wouldn't be a good home defense round---I just prefer sending heavier bullets downrange.

[PatEgan]

I mostly trust the heavier weight 5.56 bullets, but would always put more faith into my 6.8.

As far as ammo availability and price goes, I train with .22LR and 5.56 about 90% of the time, but have 6.8 ready to go if push comes to shove. THAT'S my real go-to round.

Pat

[ztf HITMAN]

One thing to consider on the 5.56 issue (SHTF scenario) is the sheer number of parts, and ammunition for the AR15 platform. It's cheaper to stockpile ammo and there are countless manufacturers of 5.56, as opposed to , say, 6.8. These are other advantages to the platform and caliber.

[bigb4015]

I would use use my 556 but living in a townhouse i worry about penetration through the walls so i am forced to used buckshot.

[Cascades236]

if the first fails theres 27 more coming really quick.

[Iraqgunz]

I may be wrong about this, but in previous discussions here with DocGKR 5.56 would be more preferable as it penetrates less than many handgun rounds and 00 buckshot. I am sure that he can chime in.


I would use use my 556 but living in a townhouse i worry about penetration through the walls so i am forced to used buckshot.

[ztf HITMAN]

I would use use my 556 but living in a townhouse i worry about penetration through the walls so i am forced to used buckshot.


I may be wrong about this, but in previous discussions here with DocGKR 5.56 would be more preferable as it penetrates less than many handgun rounds and 00 buckshot. I am sure that he can chime in.

I've seen evidence that 5.56 will penetrate LESS than handgun rounds and buckshot. The Best Defense with Rob Pincus had one of these demonstrations using double-drywall setups. Birdshot was the exception, but I'd trust 5.56 before birdshot as far as stopping a BG. The demo showed both FMJ rounds and 75gr TAP. The TAPs OTM design had it break up and expend it's energy before extensive penetration. The FMJ penetrated more. Therefore, trust OTM 5.56 as far as less penetration. Even the 9mm handgun rounds, both FMJ and JHP penetrated all the "walls" they set up.

[DevilPhrog]

I trust it against the soft targets that would be coming in to meet their end. I have not read of to many people breaking into houses wearing body armor. Not to mention between the dog biting and the BCM rifle working 77gr Black Hills, if that does not work I always have my Kimber Ultra II.:D

[Jisforjustin24]

Honestly if anyones in you home i would not be grabbing my AR is would be my mossy 500 or glock 19 not my AR.

[bigb4015]

I've seen evidence that 5.56 will penetrate LESS than handgun rounds and buckshot. The Best Defense with Rob Pincus had one of these demonstrations using double-drywall setups. Birdshot was the exception, but I'd trust 5.56 before birdshot as far as stopping a BG. The demo showed both FMJ rounds and 75gr TAP. The TAPs OTM design had it break up and expend it's energy before extensive penetration. The FMJ penetrated more. Therefore, trust OTM 5.56 as far as less penetration. Even the 9mm handgun rounds, both FMJ and JHP penetrated all the "walls" they set up.Intresting.

[ztf HITMAN]

Intresting.

Here You go....I found a link to the video I was referring to...Enjoy

http://www.downrange.tv/bestdefense/wall-penetration.htm

[ForTehNguyen]

yes handgun rounds penetrate more in drywall than 5.56. Obviously because of the grainage and how 5.56 is designed to fragment