The Fundamentals.....

[Ash Hess]

I did a couple of searches different ways and either my search techniques are bad, or this hasnt been touched on in awhile.

While we reference "the fundamentals" a lot there is not a specifc post with them on it. So, lets get them posted

Here is the Army version to start....

1 Sight Alignment/ Sight picture
2 Steady Position
3 Breathing
4 Trigger control

Help me build get them all in here. Thanks

[Failure2Stop]

Are you looking for fundamentals of traditional bulls-eye type shooting or combative fundamentals?
Rifle only, or pistol as well?

[00bullitt]

My take on breathing......I suggest you do it:D

[SpeedRock]

I would say the most important fundamentals would be in this order;

1.Sights
2.Trigger
3.Follow through

Breathing is always important, but I'm referring to defensive/combat fundamentals, not precision rifle or bulls eye shooting.

[xjustintimex]

things that helped me for bullseye shooting

1. breathing
2. sight alignment
3. a good sling
4. making sure your not forcing the rifle on the target (whatever position you find it needs to be little effort holding on bullseye. if your not comfortable or forcing your sights on bullseye don't just go whatever and squeeze one off)
5. making sure you develop the same grip pattern
6. squeezing the trigger (extremely important)

im not an expert though, and I dont have any experience with combat shooting/fundamentals :p

[nickdrak]

My submissions for your list are:

*Proper Battle Zero & it's application to combat shooting.

*Line of Bore/Line of Sight Off-Set & it's application to combat shooting.

[Ash Hess]

Well, lets work it thru. There is some much knowledge on here, lets get some basics down. Lets start with rifle.

As I see it If you can properly point the weapon and fire the weapon without moving it you will hit what you were pointed at. But that's a principle not a fundamental


So for the big list....
-Proper Battle Zero & it's application to combat shootin
-Line of Bore/Line of Sight Off-Set & it's application to combat shooting.
- breathing
- sight alignment
- a good sling
- making sure your not forcing the rifle on the target (whatever position you find it needs to be little effort holding on bullseye. if your not comfortable or forcing your sights on bullseye don't just go whatever and squeeze one off)
- making sure you develop the same grip pattern
- squeezing the trigger (extremely important)

[SpeedRock]

It baffles me that follow through is not on your list....Let's start by explaining what "follow through" means. It means to reacquire your front sight after each shot. Too many people miss this fundamental by looking at their target after each shot or to look over their sights. It's a pretty critical fundamental.

[Ash Hess]

Speed rock, good call.


-Proper Battle Zero & it's application to combat shootin
-Line of Bore/Line of Sight Off-Set & it's application to combat shooting.
- breathing
- sight alignment
- a good sling
- making sure your not forcing the rifle on the target (whatever position you find it needs to be little effort holding on bullseye. if your not comfortable or forcing your sights on bullseye don't just go whatever and squeeze one off)
- making sure you develop the same grip pattern
- squeezing the trigger (extremely important)
- Followthrough

[RogerinTPA]

Those are all good for traditional marksmanship like FTS stated. It doesn't translate very well when doing tactical shoot on the move or multiple target drills, so you will have to do a moded balancing act when doing cone drills, zig zag, 2x2x2, 1-5, moded navy and MEUSOC drills, while being under a timer.

[Ash Hess]

Rog, point taken. So what does work on a MEUSOC drill. Thats what I am trying to ge going. What are the basics.

One could argue that a steady position is very applicable to shooting on the move. Meaning that the stance, grip, elbows in, knees bent, heel toe, etc create that Steady position.

Thats the intent of this thread. The forum has tons of hardware suggestions and guides.

So what are the basics....

[joshs]

The basics. I think of these as the things that a shooter must do to hit his intended target. In their most basic form they are: locate the target, align the gun with the target, and hold the alignment until the bullet exits the barrel. All of the previously listed fundamentals help the shooter to do one, or more, of these three things. Depending on the difficulty and circumstances of a given shot, the shooter may change how he applies the fundamentals, but these three basic principles must be accomplished to make a successful shot.

[RogerinTPA]

Rog, point taken. So what does work on a MEUSOC drill. Thats what I am trying to ge going. What are the basics.

One could argue that a steady position is very applicable to shooting on the move. Meaning that the stance, grip, elbows in, knees bent, heel toe, etc create that Steady position.

Thats the intent of this thread. The forum has tons of hardware suggestions and guides.

So what are the basics....

Sorry for getting back to this thread so late.... but made my last comment on my Blackberry while at dinner on a layover.

The basics that have been mentioned must be modified to be able to get accurate hits on target. For me, my basics are what has been discussed and:

A zeroed weapon, both irons and RDS.

Knowing your hold over at various distances in relation to your zero.

Steady shooting position. Holding the weapon as close to the FSB as possible, pulling it into the shoulder, leaning forward to control recoil, while driving the gun from target to target and shooting as fast as possible, without sacrificing accuracy.

When shooting on the move, performing the groucho walk or waiter walk. Lower body moving while upper body is stable.

Balance (of body, weapon, leading the target, flash sight picture, breathing control, trigger control, etc...) Being able to perform the above after doing a turning movement to engage, a sprint (high heart rate) or any other drill that requires you to turn or drive your weapon to accurately engage your target.

Practice: I don't have a range where I can do shoot on the move, but I do practice engaging moving targets from various ranges (via a programmed runner) and perform the 2x2x2, 1-5, failure and NSR (Non Standard Response) drills regularly with a timer and with my support hand. My fundamentals also include quite a bit of dry fire with dummy rounds, Tap, Rack Bang, Clearing double feeds, also doing it with my support side. Doing the same with pistol. I believe in being ambidextrous and as accurate with all of my weapons, from either side. I try to shoot as much support side and I do strong side. Sometime dedicating a whole range session just shooting support side.

In a tactical class sense, a sling is there to let the weapon hang during a break. The overwhelming majority of the shooting will be from the standing position. Having a tight sling to aid in stability will slow you down as well as the class. To compensate, a tight body position is required to in able accurate hits as described above.

[Ash Hess]

So lets say



Sight picture---- to include hold over/under,

Trigger Manipulation-- straight pull, proper reset, smooth

Breathing-- do forget it.

Steady position-- using proper techniques to stabilize weapon based on position.

Follow through and calling the shot


Do these seem pretty solid?

[RogerinTPA]

So lets say



Sight picture---- to include hold over/under,

Trigger Manipulation-- straight pull, proper reset, smooth

Breathing-- do forget it.

Steady position-- using proper techniques to stabilize weapon based on position.

Follow through and calling the shot


Do these seem pretty solid?

Yes, but...calling a shot is not as easy as it may appear. It is easily applied when doing bulls eye precision shooting but is difficult when shooting on the move and driving the gun from target to target. If everything else is squared away, the last known position of your dot as you manipulated the trigger, should be where the round went. Depending on the shooter, you'd be quite surprised where those rounds went.

As far as trigger reset, quite frankly, I don't notice it, except for slow fire prone. During rapid fire, I'm concentrating more on "dot" placement and stable position. As far as breathing, I'd consider it breathing control, along with trigger control.

If you haven't had a carbine course (LAV, TigerSwan, Magpul, etc...), enroll in one. Some things (all the variables involved) won't jell until you are actually performing these drills, which challenge's conventional thinking in applying tactical marksmanship, without sacrificing accuracy.

[Ash Hess]

Thats what I was trying to get at.


I have been to playing Army for 14 years with 3 combat tours, been to a TigerSwan class, and done several advanced marksman Army classes. Every class has relied on the fundamentals. Thats why it surprised me when I searched the site and found no thread with them posted.

People here can tell you the vast differences between Colts, Noveske's, and bushmaster rifles but getting some basic "Software" was posted on here was hard. Was just trying to get some discussion going to make a point.

[DMR]

Well, lets work it thru. There is some much knowledge on here, lets get some basics down. Lets start with rifle.

As I see it If you can properly point the weapon and fire the weapon without moving it you will hit what you were pointed
important)

Hess good to see you back from vacation. The above sounds like a quote from Baughn and the old IMLARM. They still teaching that at the current version?

Differant applications have slight variations on the fundimentals. You looking for TTPs to work into train up for the next rotation? Maybe I should get off my duff and set up some training in New Bremen with Scott.

Either way I'll follow the thread and add my typicaly small points along the way.

[Ash Hess]

DMR, I am back. You are correct with the Baughn-ism. Haven't found a better way to say it.
IMLARM( Infantry Mountain Leaders Advanced Marksmanship) has lost a lot of funding and is not the same. We lost a good course. So I went to the TigerSwan class. Two thumbs up.
We are looking at doing the quick turn around so working on here to pick brains. I was just poking the Bear with this thread.

We have a lot of work to do as we are swapping out like 70% of the people this time. All DM, SRM, BRM training starts again March.

[BLACK LION]

For me, before all else comes a sound anatomical structure, regardless of wether I am armed or unarmed. I need to be able to consistently and effectively get into a working combative postiiotn so I can deal with whatever needs to be dealt with as efficiently as possible.
If my structure is ****ed in anyway I am willingly commiting to a weaker presentation and subject to whatever advantage my enemy can gain from that.

[Ash Hess]

Black Lion, i dont know if you have posted about the structure you spoke of but if you havent can you break it down for us? thanks ahead of time