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Irish
02-01-10, 11:00
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/31/AR2010013102079.html


In the land of Mahatma Gandhi, Indian gun owners are coming out of the shadows for the first time to mobilize, U.S.-style, against proposed new curbs on bearing arms.

When gunmen attacked 10 sites in Mumbai in November 2008, including two five-star hotels and a train station, Mumbai resident Kumar Verma sat at home glued to the television, feeling outraged and unsafe.

Before the end of December, Verma and his friends had applied for gun licenses. He read up on India's gun laws and joined the Web forum Indians for Guns. When he got his license seven months later, he bought a black, secondhand, snub-nose Smith & Wesson revolver with a walnut grip.

"I feel safe wearing it in my ankle holster every day," said Verma, 27, who runs a family business selling fire-protection systems. "I have a right to self-protection, because random street crime and terrorism have increased. The police cannot be there for everybody all the time. Now I am a believer in the right to keep and bear arms."

Verma said he plans to join the recently formed National Association for Gun Rights India to lobby against new gun controls that the government has proposed, blaming the proliferation of both licensed and illegal weapons for a rise in crime.

Although India's 1959 Arms Act gives citizens the legal right to own and carry guns, it is not a right enshrined in the country's constitution. Getting a license is a cumbersome process, and guns cannot be bought over the counter -- requirements that gun owners describe as hangovers from the colonial past, when the British rulers disarmed their Indian subjects to head off rebellion.

In December, the Ministry of Home Affairs proposed several amendments to the Arms Act that would make it even harder to acquire a gun license, restrict the number of people eligible for nationwide licenses and curtail the amount of ammunition a gun owner can amass.


An official said that the ministry has called for public input. But in the meantime, the proposals have given rise to a nascent gun rights movement modeled on the strategies of the United States' National Rifle Association and echoing its rhetoric of civil rights, dignity and self-protection.

"We are outraged. We are not murderers. Instead of going after real criminals, the government is indulging in window dressing by bringing in gun control laws that target law-abiding citizens who have licensed guns," said Abhijeet Singh, 37, a software engineer who started Indians for Guns and is the coordinator of the new gun rights association.

"We want to remove the stigma on licensed gun owners," Singh said. According to the National Crime Records Bureau, 87 percent of murders by firearms in India in 2007 involved illegally held guns.

There is no official tally of legal gun owners, but Singh cited a rough estimate of 4 million to 5 million.

Last week, the National Association for Gun Rights India began meeting with lawmakers and consulting lawyers in a bid to stall the proposals. The group's president is a 39-year-old lawmaker, Naveen Jindal, who studied at the University of Texas business school in Dallas. Inspired by American students' displays of patriotism, Jindal earlier launched a successful campaign for Indians' right to display the national flag outside their homes and offices.

Indian security experts appear dismissive of the group's efforts. "There is no place for a gun rights movement in India," said Julius Ribeiro, a former police officer who comments on security issues. "That kind of debate may work in America, but it will not work here, because laws are misused and guns can easily fall into the wrong hands. It can get dangerous in India."

Gun rights advocates respond -- using language familiar to Americans -- that guns are a deterrent to crime.

"An armed society is a polite society," said Rahoul Rai, a member of the campaign. He said the movement also reflects the rise of an Indian middle class that can "voice its fears about rising crime, interpret the constitution to articulate their rights to self-protection and bring like-minded people together through technology."

Shahid Ahmad, who runs a Web site called the Gun Geek , said the process of getting a gun license in India is so burdensome that it encourages corruption. To hasten the process, he said, many applicants ask politicians to put in a word in their favor, or attempt to bribe officials and police officers.

To illustrate the point, gun advocates refer to a 2008 incident in the state of Madhya Pradesh. The clamor for gun licenses was so high, according to news media, that officials tried to induce men with large families to participate in a vasectomy program by promising a license in return.

TY44934
02-01-10, 14:59
India has a population of about 1.3 billion people. If their population ever joined an Indian version of the NRA in proportion to our membership levels, just think of the lobbying power!

Looks like we will have many more brothers in arms soon.

GermanSynergy
02-01-10, 15:14
Good for them!

It's nice to see folks standing up for their rights. :)

MarshallDodge
02-01-10, 15:17
Good for them!

It's nice to see folks standing up for their rights. :)

+1, I am glad to see that they believe in self preservation as well.

GermanSynergy
02-01-10, 15:19
+1, I am glad to see that they believe in self preservation as well.

I'm guessing that Mumbai had alot to do with it...

glocktogo
02-01-10, 16:30
Indian security experts appear dismissive of the group's efforts. "There is no place for a gun rights movement in India," said Julius Ribeiro, a former police officer who comments on security issues. "That kind of debate may work in America, but it will not work here, because laws are misused and guns can easily fall into the wrong hands. It can get dangerous in India."


India has a strong and highly stratified caste system, particularly in rural areas. Gun rights are a great equalizer, so I would expect a lot of push back on this issue there.

I wish them the best of luck and hope they succeed.

TOrrock
02-01-10, 16:33
I'm guessing that Mumbai had alot to do with it...


Gun toting civilians certainly couldn't have done a worse job than the majority of the police and security forces that "responded" to the attack.

SeriousStudent
02-01-10, 20:29
I work for a very large organization as an IT geek. We have a lot of developers from India as employees.

I had a very interesting conversation on this exact issue several weeks ago.

"You know, Serious, we have a lot in common. Both of our native countries used to be British colonies. Both are democracies. We are both attacked by terrorists. And all we want to do is go to work and feed our families. But if they will not leave us alone, they will face a terrible fight."

Damned if he wasn't right.

DragonDoc
02-01-10, 21:31
You would think that Indians would demand their right to bear arms more stringently. While there are many similarities in our countries there is one major differences. They have had to deal with extremist and separatist for decades. I always thought that they kept a rifle in every household kinda like you have in Iraq. It is good that they are fighting for their rights. It seems to me that there is a global movement to disarm citizens. We all know that a disarmed society doesn't have citizens but has subjects.

SeriousStudent
02-01-10, 21:42
....... We all know that a disarmed society doesn't have citizens but has subjects.

I agree, and think you have really hit the nail on the head. There is a huge difference between a citizen and a subject. It's the power relationship between the individual, and the government.

A citizen gives over some of their power to the government, in order for it to accomplish essential tasks. A subject receives whatever "boon" is granted them by the sovereign.

I'll never be a subject. Not denigrating those that are. But it's just not in my Texas blood. ;)

(We now return you to our previously-scheduled thread.)

skyugo
02-02-10, 07:25
good for them... we colonists have to stick together. :D