View Full Version : LMT 2-stage trigger
Is the LMT 2- stage trigger worth the extra money or not?
Over a standard commercial single-stage trigger? Umm... Yes. I'd probably go with the WOA RRA mainly because of the price. The difference in feel is negligible.
For a little more money you can have the JP match trigger and speed hammer combo which is really nice. Set right, it has a full travel of about 1mm, with a hair reset, and for light use on the bench or varminting, it's a great trigger, though I'd probably stick with the LMT/RRA/Armalite 2-stage for duty use.
For the extra bucks, I absolutely love my KAC and it breaks crisp (like an early Colt Python). My KAC setups are nicer than the Geiselle trigger I tried, though I'm sure it wasn't adjusted properly, and I didn't have time to mess with it... Still waiting to get one of my own to play with, but I'm sure after fine tuning it, it should match or exceed the KAC.
Oh, and my KAC breaks much nicer than the JP, but comparing a single to a double is apples and oranges, IMO.
docsprague
04-05-07, 17:47
I love my LMT two stage. I have had a Rock River NM and I think the LMT is better.
I've always wondered how the LMT compared to the RR in terms of design, pull weight, pull quality, and durability.
Can anyone comment?
I already did. I said the difference is negligible and that I would go for the RRA over the LMT for the price. :p
Other than the RRAs annoying tendency to turn into a long squishy single stage.
TWO did for me.
There are really only two combat rated 2 stage triggers IMHO. They are the KAC and the Geiselle. From what I am told, the KAC triggers are breaking and the USA is replacing them with the Geiselle trigger.
I personally use the Geiselle triggers and believe that they are the best 2 stage trigger on the market and are made for serious use.
C4
Other than the RRAs annoying tendency to turn into a long squishy single stage. TWO did for me.
Yes, I keep hearing that about the RRAs. I haven't heard that about the LMTs. That's why I was wondering about the difference in their designs.
There are really only two combat rated 2 stage triggers IMHO. They are the KAC and the Geiselle. From what I am told, the KAC triggers are breaking and the USA is replacing them with the Geiselle trigger.
I personally use the Geiselle triggers and believe that they are the best 2 stage trigger on the market and are made for serious use.
I've heard this too, and wondered where the LMT fit in the picture. I haven't heard of the LMTs failing, but that may be a function of them seeing less hard use than the KAC and the Geiselle.
Yes, I keep hearing that about the RRAs. I haven't heard that about the LMTs. That's why I was wondering about the difference in their designs.
I've heard this too, and wondered where the LMT fit in the picture. I haven't heard of the LMTs failing, but that may be a function of them seeing less hard use than the KAC and the Geiselle.
Some will tell you that the RRA and LMT are the same trigger (maybe). My LMT 2 stage ran fine for me, but it is no Geiselle trigger.
C4
Some will tell you that the RRA and LMT are the same trigger (maybe).
C4
Similar in concept, but different in execution.
Now here is a stupid question??? What exactly is a 2-stage trigger and how does it differ from a regular triger? I have never used one so im in the dark.
Thanks
Now here is a stupid question??? What exactly is a 2-stage trigger and how does it differ from a regular triger? I have never used one so im in the dark.
Thanks
Basically (as the name implies), there are two stages before the hammer drops. The first stage is basically slack and takes you to a "wall" or a stopping point. The next pull after that is what drops the hammer.
Think of the first stage on a two stage trigger as the warning track.
C4
What would be the tactical advantage of the 2-stage vs. the single stage? Im guessing accidental discharge?
What would be the tactical advantage of the 2-stage vs. the single stage? Im guessing accidental discharge?
High end single stage triggers (like the Timney and JP) are set at around 2-4lbs. The first stage of a two stage trigger is generally around 4lbs.
When you get nervous (scared) that your going to have to shoot someone breaking into your home, you will most likely put your finger on the trigger (which I know is a no no, but does happen). Having a single stage trigger set to 2-4lbs is a very bad thing IMHO for any weapon that you might use to defend yourself with.
C4
What would be the tactical advantage of the 2-stage vs. the single stage? Im guessing accidental discharge?
A good two-stage trigger has most of the trigger weight in the take-up (1st stage). This lets you work on your sight picture knowing that just a small amount of pressure (with no movement) will break the shot.
docsprague
04-11-07, 18:46
I already did. I said the difference is negligible and that I would go for the RRA over the LMT for the price. :p
I totally disagree. I have used both and I would only go with the LMT out of the two. The LMT was smoother and had a cleaner break point. The RRA was rough and stiff. I was told by a vender that he had at least 25% of his RRA triggers returned. Then again he may have been trying to sell me on a LMT.
Ive only had my Defender 2000 M4 SOPMOD 2 stage for a little over a year now and have under 2000 rds fired
0 Hic Ups
I do like it alot
I just installed an LMT 2 stage in my lower. The first stage is sort of rough, like a light grinding during take up. No noise, just rough feeling. 2nd stage is nice and clean. Anyone else experience this?
It should clean up with use.
Battl3fr0nt
07-27-08, 06:05
I am using the Armalite 2 Stage Tactical right now everyone says the Armalite 2 Stage Tactical, RRA 2 stage and LMT 2 Stage are very much alike but I have used the RRA and I like my Armalite 2 stage tactical better, it has a better break then the RRA I cant really say on the LMT I have never used it and as for Bushmaster it is prolly the worst I have used.. But I know you can send your Armalite and rra out and have it tuned. I might do that and yeah if it is new some of the creep will go away after some breaking in.
trunkmonkey
05-08-10, 12:27
High end single stage triggers (like the Timney and JP) are set at around 2-4lbs. The first stage of a two stage trigger is generally around 4lbs.
When you get nervous (scared) that your going to have to shoot someone breaking into your home, you will most likely put your finger on the trigger (which I know is a no no, but does happen). Having a single stage trigger set to 2-4lbs is a very bad thing IMHO for any weapon that you might use to defend yourself with.
C4
Hence the old safety rule keep your finger straight and off the trigger until ready to fire.
Hence the old safety rule keep your finger straight and off the trigger until ready to fire.
Correct. This is a “perfect world” mentality and unfortunately, one that we do not live in.
C4
LMT makes a great 2 stage and in the past the one i owned performed flawless for many rounds.....that said, SSA's are made outta a cut above and imho the finest you can buy:)
There are really only two combat rated 2 stage triggers IMHO. They are the KAC and the Geiselle. From what I am told, the KAC triggers are breaking and the USA is replacing them with the Geiselle trigger.
I personally use the Geiselle triggers and believe that they are the best 2 stage trigger on the market and are made for serious use.
C4
Grant, are you saying you prefer a 2-stage trigger for serious use?
LMT makes a great 2 stage and in the past the one i owned performed flawless for many rounds.....that said, SSA's are made outta a cut above and imho the finest you can buy:)
Agreed. I have an LMT 2-stage in my 16" MRP and it is very nice, but I have a Giessele SSA in 18" Centurian Arms DMR and it is amazing.
Other than the RRAs annoying tendency to turn into a long squishy single stage.
TWO did for me. the early ones where not harden as the newer ones last 2 years as word has it-maybe ? can anybody check on this one please thxs
LonghunterCO
05-09-10, 21:11
I have a KAC and a LMT. I have more rounds through the LMT than the KAC so I could not speak to the KAC's longevity, but the KAC is the better of the two. No first hand exp with any others.
Magic_Salad0892
05-10-10, 05:35
I prefer the KAC, or the LWRCi Enhanced Fire Control Group over any trigger on the market.
Unless I'm running an SPR. In which case listen to Grant. :)
Tornado_Racing
05-10-10, 18:25
The only bad things I have heard about the RRA 2 stage is the disconnector pin works it's way out over time. I had ADCO install a full length disconnector and heck my RRA has 6k through it.
From the posts on my "Keyholing" thread, my RRA is gonna outlast my barrel!:(
trunkmonkey
05-10-10, 18:31
Correct. This is a “perfect world” mentality and unfortunately, one that we do not live in.
C4
I'm still failing to understand why the "keep your finger straight and off the trigger until your ready to fire" is so hard to obide by.
If you run around with your finger on the trigger it matters not if it's a 2 pound trigger or 20, your going to have an AD.
It's that same mentality that drove departments to the new york style 12 pound glock trigger.
Trying to replace proper training with a heavier trigger to eliminate mistakes that should have happened does not sit well with me.
LMT 2 stage triggers - very Happy with the ones I have
I have the LMT 2 stage trigger on a Defender 2000. I have the RRA 2 stage trigger on a LAR-8. Both seem to work quite well but I will say that everyonce in a while, the LMT seems to get harder to pull through the second stage. It's not consistent. Will last a few rounds then go back to "normal". The LMT is fairly new so I want to run a few hundred more rounds through it before I get concerned.
I had my 2 stage LMT polished and worked over a bit and I couldnt ask for any better. To Grants point, I did run it in a carbine class, and it felt goofy to me from time to time. But for precision, its spot on for that purpose.
I've been through a few triggers trying to find what I like the best. My first "custom" trigger was a Timney 3# competition. It had a nice, crisp pull, but I found I really didn't like the single stage trigger. I tried a Geissele SSA and an RRA NM. Of the 2, I like the RRA better. The SSA has quite a bit heavier 1st stage than the RRA. That may be good for safety, but not so great for precision shooting. I now have RRAs in 2 of my lowers and the Geissele in 1. I sold the Timney. I guess it is all a matter of what suits you best.
I've been through a few triggers trying to find what I like the best. My first "custom" trigger was a Timney 3# competition. It had a nice, crisp pull, but I found I really didn't like the single stage trigger. I tried a Geissele SSA and an RRA NM. Of the 2, I like the RRA better. The SSA has quite a bit heavier 1st stage than the RRA. That may be good for safety, but not so great for precision shooting. I now have RRAs in 2 of my lowers and the Geissele in 1. I sold the Timney. I guess it is all a matter of what suits you best.
Well heck, I will do you a huge square and I will buy a brand new rra for you and you can just ship that whatchamacallit....ssa thingy to me:)
I guess this proves there is a first for everything...but that is the good thing about America and capitalism, one always has the right to go off the deep in with an opinion or purchase.
Belmont31R
05-13-10, 13:49
I've been through a few triggers trying to find what I like the best. My first "custom" trigger was a Timney 3# competition. It had a nice, crisp pull, but I found I really didn't like the single stage trigger. I tried a Geissele SSA and an RRA NM. Of the 2, I like the RRA better. The SSA has quite a bit heavier 1st stage than the RRA. That may be good for safety, but not so great for precision shooting. I now have RRAs in 2 of my lowers and the Geissele in 1. I sold the Timney. I guess it is all a matter of what suits you best.
The SSA is a combat trigger. A DMR or other adjustable Geiselle would better suit your needs. I have several SSA's, and a DMR. The DMR is a real precision type trigger.
I've been through a few triggers trying to find what I like the best. My first "custom" trigger was a Timney 3# competition. It had a nice, crisp pull, but I found I really didn't like the single stage trigger. I tried a Geissele SSA and an RRA NM. Of the 2, I like the RRA better. The SSA has quite a bit heavier 1st stage than the RRA. That may be good for safety, but not so great for precision shooting. I now have RRAs in 2 of my lowers and the Geissele in 1. I sold the Timney. I guess it is all a matter of what suits you best.
Funny. I just had a customer ditch his RRA 2 stage for a Geis. SSA as he said it felt better to him (which I agree with).
As far as shooting a two stage correctly (in regards to precision), you don't pull the trigger all the way through. You take up slack until you get to the second stage. Hold there, control your breathing and then break the trigger. Doing it like this, the SSA has a better feel.
The SSA is also a MUCH better built trigger than the RRA. We have seen too many RRA triggers fail to ever recommend them.
C4
I'm still failing to understand why the "keep your finger straight and off the trigger until your ready to fire" is so hard to obide by.
If you run around with your finger on the trigger it matters not if it's a 2 pound trigger or 20, your going to have an AD.
It's that same mentality that drove departments to the new york style 12 pound glock trigger.
Trying to replace proper training with a heavier trigger to eliminate mistakes that should have happened does not sit well with me.
Hard to say, but when someone is coming through your front door advising you that he is going to "KILL YOU", people tend to put their finger on the trigger.
Just sayin.
C4
Grant, are you saying you prefer a 2-stage trigger for serious use?
Yep, is all I use.
C4
Robb Jensen
05-13-10, 14:01
I too use Geissele SSA triggers I prefer the two stage of them even over stock/OEM AR triggers. I like consistency between my ARs and my pistols. I find tht Geissele SSAs feel really good after about 800 rounds if you keep them lubed with the grease that they come with. After that they're super smooth and crisp.
Well heck, I will do you a huge square and I will buy a brand new rra for you and you can just ship that whatchamacallit....ssa thingy to me:)
I guess this proves there is a first for everything...but that is the good thing about America and capitalism, one always has the right to go off the deep in with an opinion or purchase.
Well... I guess if having a personal preference is going off the deep end, then I guess I have. I didn't say RRAs were better than Geissele SSAs - I simply said I like them better for the type of shooting I do. I apologize to all if that makes me stupid!
Tornado_Racing
05-13-10, 15:57
Funny. I just had a customer ditch his RRA 2 stage for a Geis. SSA as he said it felt better to him (which I agree with).
As far as shooting a two stage correctly (in regards to precision), you don't pull the trigger all the way through. You take up slack until you get to the second stage. Hold there, control your breathing and then break the trigger. Doing it like this, the SSA has a better feel.
The SSA is also a MUCH better built trigger than the RRA. We have seen too many RRA triggers fail to ever recommend them.
C4
Hey Grant, would you mind going into some detail as to what fails on the RRA? I'm not questioning your post, I just would like some further info.
Hey Grant, would you mind going into some detail as to what fails on the RRA? I'm not questioning your post, I just would like some further info.
They shoot out the first stage out.
C4
Robb Jensen
05-13-10, 16:00
Not Grant but I've seen several (double digits) RRAs fail. These had the sear/disconnector piece of the hammer completely break off of the hammer.
Tornado_Racing
05-13-10, 16:15
Thanks for the info. May need to swap out my RRA to something else.
What's the going price for an SSA?
Well... I guess if having a personal preference is going off the deep end, then I guess I have. I didn't say RRAs were better than Geissele SSAs - I simply said I like them better for the type of shooting I do. I apologize to all if that makes me stupid!
Nobody called you stupid...that is just mean:mad:
You just tased me bro....with that first reply of yours, it was not stupid but just really, really unique. My mom always said i was unique while see ushered me to the short bus:D:D In all seriousness we all have opinions and none of them are wrong so if I offended you pal, that was not my goal and my apologies:)
Robb Jensen
05-13-10, 16:32
Thanks for the info. May need to swap out my RRA to something else.
What's the going price for an SSA?
I believe BravoCoUSA sells them or $170 ($20 more than a RRA).
Thanks for the info. May need to swap out my RRA to something else.
What's the going price for an SSA?
Many of the great reputable vendors that are sponsors on here usually have them marked at around $170 per unit.....worth every penny imho.
Gotm4...thanks for making this post irrelevant by less than 1 min. lol
Tornado_Racing
05-13-10, 16:36
My bad, just used the search feature (google) and found one for $153.00 plus shipping.
Noveske has them for $155.00 installed ... if you buy a lower or complete rifle.
Just tell your wife it was the only way you could get that good of a deal on an SSA trigger ... she'll understand ...
crowkiller
05-14-10, 07:00
Funny. I just had a customer ditch his RRA 2 stage for a Geis. SSA as he said it felt better to him (which I agree with).
As far as shooting a two stage correctly (in regards to precision), you don't pull the trigger all the way through. You take up slack until you get to the second stage. Hold there, control your breathing and then break the trigger. Doing it like this, the SSA has a better feel.
The SSA is also a MUCH better built trigger than the RRA. We have seen too many RRA triggers fail to ever recommend them.
C4
What is your opinion of the DMR vs. the SSA? I have felt a SSA before but have never had a chance to try the DMR. Im putting together a lower for my Recce upper but cant make my mind up between these two triggers. Why does the DMR cost more?
What is your opinion of the DMR vs. the SSA? I have felt a SSA before but have never had a chance to try the DMR. Im putting together a lower for my Recce upper but cant make my mind up between these two triggers. Why does the DMR cost more?
If you feel the need to "tinker" with the pull weights, then go with the DMR. I do not so the SSA is the better option (as you will save money).
It costs more because you can adjust it.
C4
Belmont31R
05-14-10, 10:44
The SSA would go well with the recce type setup.
The DMR is adjustable, and breaks a little cleaner. Its also a bit lighter in pull weights, and you can tune it down to be even lighter than whats out the box.
They do feel quite different. I just put a DMR in a Mk12 build, and it takes some getting used to even though I have SSA's in most everything else.
For shear reliability Id go with the SSA. On any adjustable trigger if the adjustment screws back out it can render the entire gun useless as you are unable to fire the weapon. Im still using the KAC trigger in my SR15 without problems after about 10k rounds through it but its always something to think about. I may end up just putting an SSA in that gun, and putting the KAC into something else I use less often.
I think the guys at Geiselle said the SSA is like a carrot breaking, and the DMR is like a glass rod.
Got 2 KAC, 2 LMT, 1 RRA, and the best trigger for the money, a Springfield single stage.
One of my LMT triggers is a lot better than any non adjustable trigger has a right to be, the other is a little better than the best RRA.
Durability seems very good. After a couple thousand rounds, very smooth, crisp, 5K more, can't tell any difference.
The early RRA did seem to have problems, parts breaking, going single, but the recent ones hold up better but I still don't know if I would want to depend on them.
Both of my KAC triggers are in lowers used with "precision" uppers, so they haven't got as many rounds through them, but so far very good.
If needed, they will be replaced with Gieselle 2 stage, listen to Grant, he's always spot on with the durability report!
I use a 2 stage for everything, but that single stage Springfield trigger job is sweet for a CQB carbine, affordable and very useable on something like a Recon.
I have two LMT 2 stage triggers. I paid no more than $110 each shipped so I have no real complaints other than the 2nd stage feels a bit rough. That said, I prefer the Geisselle SSA now that I have one. So much that I am looking to get a few more sets. I also have a KAC in my SPR that performs as advertised.
Yep, is all I use.
C4
wow, I'm kind of surprised. after all the generic recommendations around here for "a good single-stage trigger", I was under the impression that a two-stage was not a serious use trigger. now I feel better about my preference.
btw, do you have an opinion on the Armalite 2-stage trigger? I did not see it discussed here...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.