View Full Version : Troy TRX Extreme vs VTAC Extreme?
Troy TRX Extreme:
http://www.skdtac.com/v/vspfiles/photos/TRO.213-2.jpg
VTAC Extreme:
http://www.skdtac.com/v/vspfiles/photos/VKG.208-2.jpg
How different are these two rails, practically speaking? Is one lighter than the other? Does one heat up faster than the other? Both go for the same price ($210) and besides one having slots instead of circular holes I can't see much of a difference between the two. I see Rob (gotm4) with the TRX on his "Project Featherweight" (here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39599)), and I see a fellow Floridian on Lightfighter with one on his work gun (here (http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9046084761/m/480103355)). I'm just wondering if the difference is in looks or if there's something one will give that the other won't.
-B
It's simply slots versus holes, and a different logo on the side. The VTAC also has "Troy" on the top rail when you look down, in one of the rail slots.
I don't know which length you're interested in, but your prices seem a bit high. Direct from Viking Tactics they are:
13" - $189
11" - $175
9" - $165
7" - $155
The weights are published on the product page as well: http://vikingtactics.com/handguard.html, and are accurate (I have the 9" and it is indeed 9.6-9.7 oz with barrel nut).
The Troy version costs the same on their website, but includes a precision barrel wrench that makes it much easier to assemble. Speaking from experience, the teeth on the barrel nut are not very strong, so you need to use a barrel wrench that engages consecutive teeth. If you use one of the cheap 3 pin wrenches, you will shear some teeth off (happened to me at only 35 ft lbs of torque). Troy sells their wrench for $20 separately, as well.
So the VTAC version does not come with the barrelnut wrench that is included with the Troy version???
So the VTAC version does not come with the barrelnut wrench that is included with the Troy version???
Correct. The VTAC does not come with the wrench, unfortunately.
The prices I gave are from SKD; looking at the manufacturer's websites, the only one that comes down in price is the VTAC version, but as you said it also doesn't include the barrel nut wrench. The Troy version also looks like it comes with a couple rail sections?
Anyway, I cared more about the rails themselves. Glad to hear it's only slots vs holes. Thanks Slippers. :)
-B
The prices I gave are from SKD; looking at the manufacturer's websites, the only one that comes down in price is the VTAC version, but as you said it also doesn't include the barrel nut wrench. The Troy version also looks like it comes with a couple rail sections?
Anyway, I cared more about the rails themselves. Glad to hear it's only slots vs holes. Thanks Slippers. :)
-B
The VTAC also comes with three rail sections. Two short ones, and a longer one with a QD socket on the end.
On the Troy site, make sure you're looking at the Extreme, and not the Standard. I see their pricing for the TRX Extreme as:
13" - $189
11" - $175
9" - $165
7.6" - $155
Same as the VTAC.
I own both and can honestly say that I like the VTAC better. The Troy is like holding a cheese grater!
Robb Jensen
02-05-10, 19:13
I only went with the Troy version on Project Featherweight because as an employee of VA Arms I get anything for cost. I actually prefer the VTAC version. The slots are easier on my wifes hands (it's her rifle) vs. the Troy. Both are excellent though and I imaging the Troy is a tad lighter, not really enough to matter.
LonghunterCO
02-05-10, 22:03
So the TRX does not have a 7" version. Did I read tht right?
I own both and can honestly say that I like the VTAC better. The Troy is like holding a cheese grater!
Is that a bad thing? Was thinking of getting the Troy over the VTac.
So the TRX does not have a 7" version. Did I read tht right?
7.6"
I can't speak for the VTAC but I just put a TRX Extreme 13" on my BCM middy today and I love it. threw a AFG on there and It was perfect.
tacticalmonkey
02-06-10, 00:07
I also but a 13" fde Troy on a SPR build i put together for my Dad. He and I both love it, low profile, very light. Dont think its as strong as some of my other rails. Rainer Arms put mine together, they really had to wrench the tightning allen screw on the bottom. Hopefully this pic works.
Woody
4159
What makes you think it may not be as strong?
Does anyone have pictures of the 9" version of either type mounted on a mid length with a standard front site?
I've had a 13" TRX-E on my 9mm for a few months now and really like it - no issues with heat, but no gas system either. At first I wasn't sure if I should hold out for the VTAC version because of the slots vs. holes but it's proven to be no problem. The holes are "sticky" without being overly abrasive.
Kentucky Cop
02-06-10, 10:21
I believe the new Smith and Wesson M&P has a '13 inch Troy Extreme rail on their new 1/7 twist barrel. It looks sharp.
www.smith-wesson.com punch in model # 811024 in their search engine.
M&P 15TS model
Ky Cop
I believe the new Smith and Wesson M&P has a '13 inch Troy Extreme rail on their new 1/7 twist barrel. It looks sharp.
www.smith-wesson.com punch in model # 811024 in their search engine.
M&P 15TS model
Ky Cop
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/811024_large.jpg
Hey, thanks for the model number. That is a very interesting offering from S&W. 14.5" barrel with 1/7" twist and pinned FH, along with a Troy rail, MagPul MOE furniture and MBUS...interesting to see more S&W rifles with the 1/7 barrel and nice to see the Troy rail on production guns.
I'm wondering when we'll see the new Troy/VTAC rall appear on the VTAC rifles from S&W, JP, Noveske (and I understand Troy now).
I have the TRX-E 13" on a MidLength
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45653
Bare hands I find it fine to shoot with, but with gloves its even better. I can really get a great hold on it with gloves. I too thought it might be to aggressive at first, but its GTG IMHO.
Have plans for a build using a VTAC Extreme 9" or 11" for a Mid-Length, Cut/Shaved Down FSB, Pencil barrel in the future for the wife.
* Proper Mentions/Thanks/Credit goes out to "gotm4" on ideas from "Project Featherweight" for the build above :D
IMHO its more personal preference. If you shoot/train with gloves more than not than I say either. If you shoot/train with bare hands I'd say VTAC Extreme.
tacticalmonkey
02-06-10, 12:43
What makes you think it may not be as strong?
Just seems to be a softer aluminum and the way the tightening tab underneath the rail pulled together. Maybe its just perception. I still like the rail, still want to get the vtac 13" for a middy build.
Ahh. I see your point. I know the Barrel nut seemed a bit soft but I can't tell a difference in the rail itself. I am not to worried about how it attached. I have seen far less reliable looking attachment methods work just fine.
Robb Jensen
02-06-10, 13:18
The newer Troy barrel nuts are a bit more stout. And they come with the wrench. To keep from bending the teeth even on these new ones I grease up the barrel nut and receiver really well with Brownells Actions Lube plus and set my torque wrench to 25ft lbs. Then torque it to 25ft lbs, loosen, set the wrench to 30ft lbs, torque to 30ft lbs, etc etc. until I can get good alignment above 35ft lbs and below 80ft lbs. If you just do the 3 torques per the TM many times you'll bend the barrel nut teeth. The reason they bend more easily than say a USGI style nut is because of the grooves (fluting like) that allow the Troy tube to slide over it.
Mine went on pretty flawlessly as well. Of course i didn't do it myself LOL
Thanks to Joe at Superior Firearms for putting up with me looking over his shoulder while he did it. :D
http://homepage.mac.com/kwelz/.Pictures/s&w1.jpg
Kentucky Cop
02-06-10, 14:28
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/811024_large.jpg
Hey, thanks for the model number. That is a very interesting offering from S&W. 14.5" barrel with 1/7" twist and pinned FH, along with a Troy rail, MagPul MOE furniture and MBUS...interesting to see more S&W rifles with the 1/7 barrel and nice to see the Troy rail on production guns.
I'm wondering when we'll see the new Troy/VTAC rall appear on the VTAC rifles from S&W, JP, Noveske (and I understand Troy now).
Thanks for making the link HOT! I just sold my 15T to my cop buddy to buy this 15TS. I really love the Extreme Rail, the new 1/7 twist offering, MBUS's, and MOE gear that comes standard. Smith has really excelled in several areas and answered many shooters requests. I am waiting for a reply from buds on how much and how long to get one in. Back to the rail, I think it will be great with bare hands, VFG/AFG and a light.
The S&W pic looks like they went to a Mid-Length Gas Length ??? :confused: Just an observation/assumption, not concrete. If anyone gets one in hand please post, Thanks.
If so, :D
The S&W pic looks like they went to a Mid-Length Gas Length ??? :confused: Just an observation/assumption, not concrete. If anyone gets one in hand please post, Thanks.
If so, :D
Looks like you are correct.
Very interesting. Looks like I just recreated hat they are offering from the factory now! Nice :P
Robb Jensen
02-06-10, 16:18
Ernest Langdon (while working for S&W) and I constantly urged S&W to make a midlength. I saw this rifle at SHOT show, they finally listened.
Smith and Wesson's website lists the weight as 6lbs...wonder what the barrel profile is.
Smith and Wesson's website lists the weight as 6lbs...wonder what the barrel profile is.
Interesting.... the twist rate and weight seem to differ here (1/9 & 6.5lbs)....http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/2010_NewProducts_rev4.pdf
still a nice piece either way.
I've got the Troy Extreme 11" - great rail, very happy with it.
David Thomas
02-06-10, 21:04
Ernest Langdon (while working for S&W) and I constantly urged S&W to make a midlength. I saw this rifle at SHOT show, they finally listened.
Good for S&W. Looks like a great offering. I was getting ready to send you a couple of uppers for the installation of these rails. The S&W offering may take that $$ out of your pocket.:D
Is the gas block pinned? Is it aluminum or steel?
Robb Jensen
02-06-10, 21:19
Good for S&W. Looks like a great offering. I was getting ready to send you a couple of uppers for the installation of these rails. The S&W offering may take that $$ out of your pocket.:D
Is the gas block pinned? Is it aluminum or steel?
Pinned and it's steel.
Kentucky Cop
02-06-10, 22:18
Guys, I swear that I looked at the new M&P with the Troy rail and it said 1/7 twist. Even my gun guy commented on it and was surprised they were offering that twist rate when he looked at it on his computer at the gun store. When I saw the details, it was about, oh 2 weeks ago. I wonder if they made a typo. I referenced its 1/7 twist rate in another thread chatting about the new smiths in the handgun section. I must be crazy. Anyways, would you consider this a "middy" rifle? Also, is it good that the gas block is pinned and steel. Not up on all this stuff like I wish.
Guys, I swear that I looked at the new M&P with the Troy rail and it said 1/7 twist. Even my gun guy commented on it and was surprised they were offering that twist rate when he looked at it on his computer at the gun store. When I saw the details, it was about, oh 2 weeks ago. I wonder if they made a typo. I referenced its 1/7 twist rate in another thread chatting about the new smiths in the handgun section. I must be crazy. Anyways, would you consider this a "middy" rifle? Also, is it good that the gas block is pinned and steel. Not up on all this stuff like I wish.
You're not wrong...
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=760612&tabselected=over&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15702
SKU: 811024
Features:
14-1/2" Barrel with 1 in 7" Twist and Fixed Vortex Flash-Hider for Overall Length of 16.1"
13" Troy® TRX Extreme Handguard
Folding Magpul® MBUS Front and Rear Sights
Magpul® MOE Stock
Magpul® PMAG Magazine
Magpul® MOE Grip
Model: M&P15
Caliber: 5.56 mm NATO / .223
Capacity: 30 Round Detachable Magazine
Action: Semi-Auto
Barrel Length: 16.1"
Barrel Twist: 1 in 7"
Front Sight: Folding Magpul® (MBUS)
Rear Sight: Folding Magpul® (MBUS)
Overall Length: 34" Extended/31" Collapsed
Stock: Magpul® MOE
Weight: 6 lbs.
Barrel Material: 4140 Steel
Receiver Material: 7075 T6 Aluminum
Finish: Hard Coat Black Anodized
Chromed Comp: Barrel Bore, Gas Key Chamber, Bolt Carrier
Robb Jensen
02-06-10, 22:29
Guys, I swear that I looked at the new M&P with the Troy rail and it said 1/7 twist. Even my gun guy commented on it and was surprised they were offering that twist rate when he looked at it on his computer at the gun store. When I saw the details, it was about, oh 2 weeks ago. I wonder if they made a typo. I referenced its 1/7 twist rate in another thread chatting about the new smiths in the handgun section. I must be crazy. Anyways, would you consider this a "middy" rifle? Also, is it good that the gas block is pinned and steel. Not up on all this stuff like I wish.
The one I saw at SHOT was 1/7 and it appeared to be a CAR length gas system. I can only think that they probably didn't have midlength barrels ready yet so they probably just used a 1/7 twist VTAC M&P15 barrel for it instead.
Kentucky Cop
02-06-10, 22:41
Hmmm.
I wonder which one is going to be available? Is it the 1/7 twist or the 1/9 like the new for 2010 flyer/PDF states. Nonetheless, the new Troy TRX is an excellent addition on it. Hey, is this considered a "middy"? :confused:
Ky Cop
Hmmm.
I wonder which one is going to be available? Is it the 1/7 twist or the 1/9 like the new for 2010 flyer/PDF states. Nonetheless, the new Troy TRX is an excellent addition on it. Hey, is this considered a "middy"? :confused:
Ky Cop
Doesn't say in the specs, but looks to be from the pic.
Kentucky Cop
02-07-10, 22:24
The more I look at the Troy, I think thats the ticket when wearing gloves. The circles cut in the rail looks like a good way for your fingers to hook up with the rifle compared to the VTAC's "slits" . Gloves or even bare hands, I think in my opinion I would like the circles for control. Is the Troy made out of plastic and the VTAC out of aluminum?
Ky Cop
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/811024_large.jpg
Hey, thanks for the model number. That is a very interesting offering from S&W. 14.5" barrel with 1/7" twist and pinned FH, along with a Troy rail, MagPul MOE furniture and MBUS...interesting to see more S&W rifles with the 1/7 barrel and nice to see the Troy rail on production guns.
I'm wondering when we'll see the new Troy/VTAC rall appear on the VTAC rifles from S&W, JP, Noveske (and I understand Troy now).
I was on the noveske site an hour ago and when you click on the VTAC link it says they are in the process of changing over to the new VTAC rail, from the old JP/VTAC model, so I assume their VTAC rifles will soon come with the nex rail.
By the way, I spent about two hours shooting my TRX-E yesterday without gloves. No irritation at all.
Just seems to be a softer aluminum and the way the tightening tab underneath the rail pulled together. Maybe its just perception. I still like the rail, still want to get the vtac 13" for a middy build.
I was wondering the same things, thinking of building a light weight upper, looking at the Troy/VTAC because of weight, but mainly price since they are dramaticly cheaper that the DD lite rail which is my prime choice all though I think the DD mounting is stronger.
1811tactikool
02-16-10, 14:44
I also but a 13" fde Troy on a SPR build i put together for my Dad. He and I both love it, low profile, very light. Dont think its as strong as some of my other rails. Rainer Arms put mine together, they really had to wrench the tightning allen screw on the bottom. Hopefully this pic works.
Woody
4159
NICE looking rifle you got there.
How does the TROY FDE match with the magpul/tango down furniture. Thinking about a build with TRX Extreme...
I was on the noveske site an hour ago and when you click on the VTAC link it says they are in the process of changing over to the new VTAC rail, from the old JP/VTAC model, so I assume their VTAC rifles will soon come with the nex rail.
If so, I'm sooooo getting one!
Looks like they've made the switch to the new rail
Noveske VTAC rifles (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=67)
I got my VTAC 11" Extreme rail in-today from Rainier Arms. The only beef I have so far is that there is absolutely nothing in the installation/instruction sheet in regards to installing the accessory picatinny rails onto the handguard. The short rails go on without much hassle, but the long bottom rail was a real pain in the balls to get installed without stripping or cross-threading the mounting plate. I finally got it set-up properly after several attempts.
My barrel should hopefully come in today from ADCO, so maybe I can get this sucker built-up later today and post some pics!
I've been bouncing back and forth between the two as well. Thinking 9.0 on a 14.5" .635 barrel.
I got a 9" TRX however I need to borrow Thor's hammer to loosen the FSB pins on my Bravo middy.
Here's the finished product:
http://i49.tinypic.com/wjjek4.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/f9pgf8.jpg
GLOCKMASTER
03-06-10, 15:29
Here's the finished product:
http://i49.tinypic.com/wjjek4.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/f9pgf8.jpg
Nick that looks great. I'm really digging the machine work on the barrel.
lethal dose
03-06-10, 16:38
11" trx extreme. Excuse the crappy cell phone pics...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2215/4401078169_88f9c51e7f_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4401841756_8f58a353d4_b.jpg
Well, since people are posting pics... this is my 16" 9mm with a 13" TRX-E as it is set up at the moment:
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/NoDak-9mm-3.jpg
ETA: The open rail behind the AFG is for an RSA whenever they get released.
lethal dose
03-06-10, 16:46
That's super fine, heavy d. What optic is that?
Nick that looks great. I'm really digging the machine work on the barrel.
Thanks man! I like the look of it too. It is a BCM CHF 16" middy that I sent to ADCO. Prior to having it dimpled it weighed 1.76lbs. After the dimpling it weighed in at 1.62lbs. Not a huge weight savings, but I didnt want to go ultra light anyway. More importantly it seems to balance perfectly, and feels much lighter & more balanced from its previous configuration with the PRI rifle length tube/LaRue gasblock/Vltor VST-1 folding front sight, which all translated into to being too front heavy.
That's super fine, heavy d. What optic is that?
One of Marshall's PA Micros - I wanted to try the Micro concept on a range toy before dropping $$$ on an Aimpoint for a serious social carbine. It's really quite nice, I'd buy another no question.
spamsammich
03-06-10, 17:08
My VTAC 13" over a Centurion LW 16" CHF barrel.
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2693.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2670.jpg
Lethal dose....nice and simple. I like it. 16" barrel?
lethal dose
03-07-10, 10:08
Lethal dose....nice and simple. I like it. 16" barrel?
Yup. Thanks, man!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp0319
I was on the noveske site an hour ago and when you click on the VTAC link it says they are in the process of changing over to the new VTAC rail, from the old JP/VTAC model, so I assume their VTAC rifles will soon come with the nex rail.
If so, I'm sooooo getting one!
What is the preference of the VTAC over the "old JP/VTAC" version? I saw a couple of the JP's at a match recently and they looked to be good set-ups. I was surprised at the light weight of this system on an 18" fluted Sabre (chrome lined, 1x7) barrel - noticeably lighter than my 16" Noveske Middy with 9" Omega rail. (Both rifles running ACOGs, so the optics weight would be similar.)
What is the preference of the VTAC over the "old JP/VTAC" version?
weight savings. If both were weighed without the barrel nut and adding the top rail to the JP/VTAC to compare it apples to apples with the Battlerail. I just estimated the top rail weight based on the Troy 4" rail.
JP/VTAC rifle length - 15 oz. + full length top rail at 5 oz. = 20 oz.
vs.
Battlerail 13"- 11.1 oz
That much weight loss will significantly change the balance and feel of the rifle.
1811tactikool
03-07-10, 17:29
I really like the looks and weight of the TRX Extreme. I actually prefer the holes of the TRX over the slots of the Vtac...
Is there an issue with mounting the rails with the Slots on the vtac?
And yet another question: :D
Is there any reason to Not mount a Bi-Pod on the TRX/Extreme rail (Troy or VTAC versions)? I know the JP/VTAC version is strong enough, at least for 3Gun use.
GLOCKMASTER
03-09-10, 18:00
And yet another question: :D
Is there any reason to Not mount a Bi-Pod on the TRX/Extreme rail (Troy or VTAC versions)? I know the JP/VTAC version is strong enough, at least for 3Gun use.
Why add the extra weight when you already have a built in mono-pod.
Robb Jensen
03-09-10, 20:23
Why add the extra weight when you already have a built in mono-pod.
Ding, ding, ding. Even better if you use a Firebird dual PMag coupler.
diving dave
03-09-10, 20:52
Thanks for posting all the various pics. I'm in the process of building a SPR type upper, really like the 13 in. FDE troy rail.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4401841756_8f58a353d4_b.jpg
Lethaldose - how are you mounting the front QD socket on the rail?
I asked him the same thing when I saw that pic.
AR performance QD Sling mount (http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/620) for the Troy ExBR
I asked him the same thing when I saw that pick.
AR performance QD Sling mount (http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/620) for the Troy ExBR
Hey, thanks!
I guess these won't work with the VTAC version?
lethal dose
03-13-10, 17:07
Nah, it's a socket that mounts in one of the holes. Viking tactics makes a mount that clamps on the top rail and has an hk style loop that angles down a bit. That was my 2nd choice.
Nah, it's a socket that mounts in one of the holes. Viking tactics makes a mount that clamps on the top rail and has an hk style loop that angles down a bit. That was my 2nd choice.
VTAC also has a new QD socket that mounts on the top rail, with rotation limiters: http://vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html
Why add the extra weight when you already have a built in mono-pod.
I hear you and the mono pod works well, but occasionally a bi-pod is convenient.
Its rigid enough. You will not have any issues with a bipod.
Its rigid enough. You will not have any issues with a bipod.
Thanks.
tr1kstanc3
03-21-10, 17:36
Decided to go with the Troy TRX Extreme 11" rail for my lightweight middy build. Picking up an M&P15 lower and deciding on what stock/grip combination to use. Picked up a set of Troy Tritium BattleSights on a bargain deal and now waiting on the BCM upper in the mail to put the rest of her together.
Good start. Post pics when you're finished, I've had thoughts of a similar build and am curious to see how yours turns out. How's the FDE finish on your TRX?
tr1kstanc3
03-21-10, 19:21
Good start. Post pics when you're finished, I've had thoughts of a similar build and am curious to see how yours turns out. How's the FDE finish on your TRX?
I will update with pics as the build progresses. I like the FDE finish on the TRX and prefer it over the black. It looks a shade darker than the Magpul FDE and goes well with the Troy battlesights. I didn't want a bright contrast so I am pleased with it.
think its as hearty as the black?
1811tactikool
03-21-10, 23:45
Nice FDE... I just got a black one, and have pondered the FDE. Would love to see your build with Magpul FDE furniture.
Stonerriflefan44
03-24-10, 22:20
Great info in this thread, I will give the 11" TRX a try. Has anyone used a cut down FSB under a VTAC or TRX?
My VTAC 13" over a Centurion LW 16" CHF barrel.
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2693.jpg
spamsammich,
Nice rifle. How does it shoot?
Did you go with Monty's pinned gas block? I'm trying to be sure a 13" VTAC will fit over a Centurion SPR barrel/gas block. The VTAC is already ordered (actually it's back ordered), so I sorta have the cart before the horse.
Great info in this thread, I will give the 11" TRX a try. Has anyone used a cut down FSB under a VTAC or TRX?
Yes. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I have two shaved FSB barrels under two VTAC extreme rails. I think the VTAC/ Troy extreme rail is a good choice for a shaved FSB because there is a lot of space inside the rail.
I will update with pics as the build progresses. I like the FDE finish on the TRX and prefer it over the black. It looks a shade darker than the Magpul FDE and goes well with the Troy battlesights. I didn't want a bright contrast so I am pleased with it.
Looking very cool.....I'm planning a similar build and trying to decide between the TRX black or FDE to go with black receivers and FDE MAGPUL CTR/grip.
Stonerriflefan44
03-24-10, 23:19
Yes. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I have two shaved FSB barrels under two VTAC extreme rails. I think the VTAC/ Troy extreme rail is a good choice for a shaved FSB because there is a lot of space inside the rail.
Thanks for the info. I have an older rifle that has a YHM rail HG on it. Good and solid but feels like holding onto a Fosters Lager can. :)
spamsammich
03-25-10, 01:05
spamsammich,
Nice rifle. How does it shoot?
Did you go with Monty's pinned gas block? I'm trying to be sure a 13" VTAC will fit over a Centurion SPR barrel/gas block. The VTAC is already ordered (actually it's back ordered), so I sorta have the cart before the horse.
It seems like an upper that will be good for hard training and bench shooting. It's soft shooting, and balances better with a CTR/MOE than my 14.5" LMT/12"lite rail upper. I haven't had much trigger time, just enough to get my irons sorted. At 50 yards I was able to make 4 shots touch in a dime sized group with a flier, with my shitty eyes and waning light that's amazing to me. It makes me no longer regret selling my Noveske Afghan based upper.
I bought this from Rainier so I went with a Stag low pro gas block. The fit was almost alarmingly tight so I didn't bother pinning it, I just tightened the set screws and staked them since they were so well protected by the rail. After 100 rounds, I don't see any obvious signs of gas leakage. I'm fairly sure that your combination will work just fine.
word of warning, the VTAC version of the rail lacks a wrench. I used a DPMS armorers tool and while it worked ok, I'd rather have the Troy tool. For some strange reason I had to go to the upper end of the torque spectrum to install my barrel nut, slipped and bent a few teeth, I ended up pounding them back into shape with a hammer and punch but it was a little annoying. It turns out that there was a bit of grit between the shoulder of my barrel extension and the upper and it wouldn't allow my barrel nut to line up enough. After a thorough wipe down and some anti-seize it was gtg.
Oh, I may end up trying out a 11" VTAC rail since my arms are so short. I don't really need all that rail as you can see by the placement of my AFG relative to my light.
lethal dose
03-25-10, 09:28
Great info in this thread, I will give the 11" TRX a try. Has anyone used a cut down FSB under a VTAC or TRX?
Get ahold of robb (gotm4). He shaved my fsb. Great work.
My VTAC 13" over a Centurion LW 16" CHF barrel.
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2670.jpg
That barrel is a dirty combo with the TRX :D. Have you weighed the complete rifle?
TwoSqueeze
03-25-10, 19:25
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9268/sbr1.jpg
+1 for the VTAC Extreme. I have not owned the Troy version but the 11" VTAC above has been awesome for the 500 rounds I have put on it. I ran three quick mag dumps through it and it never got to hot to hold even way out by the muzzle. The tube's texture is grippy enough to keep your purchase on without "cheese grating" bare hands. Barrel nut was easy to install with a standard barrel nut wrench. Attaching the rail is damn near idiot proof. Anything else that I can expand on just let me know.
-TS
spamsammich
03-25-10, 20:53
That barrel is a dirty combo with the TRX :D. Have you weighed the complete rifle?
I think it was 6.8lbs unloaded, I'm away from home right now so I can't confirm. I'm pretty sure it was 6.8 and NOT the other way around ;)
I've been gathering parts for a while now to build up a lightweight, "hunting", AR-15. Back during the crazy days after the election I bought a matched upper and lower from Red River Tactical. I like the fact that it was made in Texas, and it has a cool logo.
The last piece of the puzzle showed up today and I finally got it all together.
* RRT upper & lower
* DSA midlength barrel, 1:9, fluted and nitrided
* 11 inch Viking VTAC Extreme Battlerail handguard
* ACE Skeleton stock
* Larue "Texas Spec" bolt carrier group
* Larue gas block
* Larue SPR scope mount
* Weaver 1.5-4.5x Classic Extreme scope, 30mm, illuminated reticle
* Lower parts kit, and other small parts from BCM.
* The trigger has been treated to a Bill Springfield trigger job.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P1020801.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P1020799.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P1020796.jpg
lethal dose
03-26-10, 21:49
Looking very cool.....I'm planning a similar build and trying to decide between the TRX black or FDE to go with black receivers and FDE MAGPUL CTR/grip.
Look at my build a few pages back.
Look at my build a few pages back.
Saw that.....great looking rifle. Only thing I was thinking different was maybe the FDE Troy......
lethal dose
03-27-10, 12:15
Saw that.....great looking rifle. Only thing I was thinking different was maybe the FDE Troy......
That'd look slick. If I did fde handguard, i'd put a black buis on the front... granted contrast was what I was going for.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9268/sbr1.jpg
+1 for the VTAC Extreme. I have not owned the Troy version but the 11" VTAC above has been awesome for the 500 rounds I have put on it. I ran three quick mag dumps through it and it never got to hot to hold even way out by the muzzle. The tube's texture is grippy enough to keep your purchase on without "cheese grating" bare hands. Barrel nut was easy to install with a standard barrel nut wrench. Attaching the rail is damn near idiot proof. Anything else that I can expand on just let me know.
-TS
So are you actually saving any weight over say a URXII with that rail setup? I like the idea of this rail but from the two other threads I read it seems like once you configure it from a bare state its pretty much a wash weight wise?
So has anyone put the 7.6" on one with an FSB? I'd like to see it.
I will update with pics as the build progresses. I like the FDE finish on the TRX and prefer it over the black. It looks a shade darker than the Magpul FDE and goes well with the Troy battlesights. I didn't want a bright contrast so I am pleased with it.
Did you get this build finished?
So has anyone put the 7.6" on one with an FSB? I'd like to see it.
I put a 7.6 on a build with a low profile gas block. It will not fit on an upper with a FSB.
tr1kstanc3
04-10-10, 15:27
Did you get this build finished?
Yes just finished this week.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4509127227_902548ea57_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4017/4508089287_31165a4806_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4508897744_84c963c1d4_b.jpg
Kentucky Cop
04-11-10, 13:39
Tr1kstanc3
That M&P is nasty looking! I am chomping at the bit waiting on Smith to release their 15TS model. Nice build.
Ky Cop
tr1kstanc3
04-11-10, 20:46
Tr1kstanc3
That M&P is nasty looking! I am chomping at the bit waiting on Smith to release their 15TS model. Nice build.
Ky Cop
Thanks! I am taking this build to the range tomorrow for the first time. I've never shot a lightweight middy before so I am excited to see how it does. Still need to decide on which magnified optic I am going to use since the optic in the photos is borrowed from another rifle.
The 15TS looks like a really great stock configuration. I know you will be happy with the Troy rail. It is exceptionally light and looks great IMO.
Robb Jensen
04-11-10, 21:05
Yes just finished this week.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4509127227_902548ea57_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4017/4508089287_31165a4806_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4508897744_84c963c1d4_b.jpg
I'm fairly certain I assembled that upper......
tr1kstanc3
04-11-10, 22:18
I'm fairly certain I assembled that upper......
Yeah I brought it in for you to put on the gasblock and rail. Thanks for the great work.
I just received my 11" Troy Extreme. My barrel is out for some work but I mocked the upper up sans barrel and I think this is my new favorite AR product! The only miss is the lack of a small QD socket for the receiver end of the rail. The 4" rail with the socket is way longer than needed for that position. This may be the easiest to install one piece free floating forearm out there.
I have seen the socket that is available with the plastic retaining nut. The nut is way too thick for my application and I'm not sure I would trust it if it did fit. It seems like a pretty simple thing for Troy to engineer with their rail mounting system.
I just received my 11" Troy Extreme. My barrel is out for some work but I mocked the upper up sans barrel and I think this is my new favorite AR product! The only miss is the lack of a small QD socket for the receiver end of the rail. The 4" rail with the socket is way longer than needed for that position. This may be the easiest to install one piece free floating forearm out there.
I have seen the socket that is available with the plastic retaining nut. The nut is way too thick for my application and I'm not sure I would trust it if it did fit. It seems like a pretty simple thing for Troy to engineer with their rail mounting system.
Much agreed. I understand that Troy has a smaller QD rail section in the works, and some guys have chopped the 4" section in half. In the meantime, the Troy/Viking Tactics LPSM (http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html) works well. My only complaint is that a smaller piece of rail with a QD socket is probably 1/4 of the price.
http://www.vikingtactics.com/images/lpsm1_440px.jpg
Complete Larue with VTAC handguard.. added an AFG on it's latest config
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/ehrljohn/vtac005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/ehrljohn/vtac002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/ehrljohn/vtac001.jpg
Anyone come up with a good method of attaching an HK snaphook as far to the rear as possible on the Vtac or Troy versions?
I'm thinking of trying this produce (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=164668) from Mesa Tactical as I've used it before in other applications, but I am concerned that it may be too bulky in this case.
Also, anyone else disappointed that the top and bottom row of cooling slots come further back than the middle one on the Vtac version? I wish the 9 and 3 o'clock slots were further to the rear for sling mounting, and having the 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, and 10:10 rails be the ones that come further to the rear seems like a waste to me. The Vtac I have is a T&E otherwise I'd be tempted to have someone drill me two holes as far to the rear as possibly to attach that Mesa piece I linked to above.
Jay Cunningham
04-18-10, 09:01
The regular Troy TRX version of this rail seems a bit more practical when you couple it with an AR Performance QD sling mount. (http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/620)
I just received my 11" Troy Extreme. My barrel is out for some work but I mocked the upper up sans barrel and I think this is my new favorite AR product! The only miss is the lack of a small QD socket for the receiver end of the rail. The 4" rail with the socket is way longer than needed for that position. This may be the easiest to install one piece free floating forearm out there.
I have seen the socket that is available with the plastic retaining nut. The nut is way too thick for my application and I'm not sure I would trust it if it did fit. It seems like a pretty simple thing for Troy to engineer with their rail mounting system.
Did the Troy version come with a barrel nut wrench? I've heard that it does but every vendor I see it for sale at does not mention that it comes with the wrench, including Troy's website.
Anyone come up with a good method of attaching an HK snaphook as far to the rear as possible on the Vtac or Troy versions?
I have high hopes for the upcoming Magpul RSA - the other options out there leave me underwhelmed.
Did the Troy version come with a barrel nut wrench? I've heard that it does but every vendor I see it for sale at does not mention that it comes with the wrench, including Troy's website.
Mine did, from macknlou.
lethal dose
04-18-10, 11:01
The regular Troy TRX version of this rail seems a bit more practical when you couple it with an AR Performance QD sling mount. (http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/620)
Exactly what I have on one of my setups. Works great... only complaint is it's not stop swivel so it ***can*** get tangled up.
Robb Jensen
04-18-10, 11:16
Much agreed. I understand that Troy has a smaller QD rail section in the works, and some guys have chopped the 4" section in half. In the meantime, the Troy/Viking Tactics LPSM (http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html) works well. My only complaint is that a smaller piece of rail with a QD socket is probably 1/4 of the price.
http://www.vikingtactics.com/images/lpsm1_440px.jpg
I'm using the VTAC low-profile QD mount on my VTAC 13" Troy rail on my BCM 16" SS410 3gun rifle. I don't use a sling on this gun much at all as it's not called for often in competition but when I do I use a 2pt VTAC sling. The ARPerformance QD mount looks like a nice option for those with the Troy version of this rail. The VTAC version will fit either rail.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/BravoCoUSA%20and%20BCM%20album/3gun.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/BravoCoUSA%20and%20BCM%20album/3gun2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/BravoCoUSA%20and%20BCM%20album/3gunriflewithVTAC.jpg
rob_S VTAC makes the LUSA which will work with a VTAC or Troy version of this rail. Actually the LUSA will work with a QD sling loop, HK loop, hunting style swivel or you can just feed the sling through the loop. It can mount on the 12 o'clock rail or if you ran a segment of rail on the side or bottom it could attach to that as well.
http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lusa.html
http://www.vikingtactics.com/images/vtac_lusa3.jpg
neither of those VTAC attachment methods work for me. I'm using an HK snaphook so the top-rail-mounted QD sling swivel isn't for me. I also dislike the LUSA because it has to attach to a separate rail AND puts the HK attachment in the wrong plane. If i was going to do a rail-mounted attachment point I'd use a dedicated version and make sure it's in the right plane (HK snap hook loop should be horizontal, not vertical).
I may try to cantilever a longer rail back from the 9 o'clock slot and attach the Gear Sector HK attachment I have.
lethal dose
04-18-10, 12:39
Ugh... I want an accupoint...
lethal dose
04-18-10, 12:42
neither of those VTAC attachment methods work for me. I'm using an HK snaphook so the top-rail-mounted QD sling swivel isn't for me. I also dislike the LUSA because it has to attach to a separate rail AND puts the HK attachment in the wrong plane. If i was going to do a rail-mounted attachment point I'd use a dedicated version and make sure it's in the right plane (HK snap hook loop should be horizontal, not vertical).
I may try to cantilever a longer rail back from the 9 o'clock slot and attach the Gear Sector HK attachment I have.
Do you know how to weld?:cool:
Just got in my 13" Troy. I went with the Troy as I liked the looks over the slots, but what really caught me was the actual circumference of the rail and its light weight. You can read about it, but until I handled the rail, that is when it really sank in.
neither of those VTAC attachment methods work for me. I'm using an HK snaphook so the top-rail-mounted QD sling swivel isn't for me. I also dislike the LUSA because it has to attach to a separate rail AND puts the HK attachment in the wrong plane. If i was going to do a rail-mounted attachment point I'd use a dedicated version and make sure it's in the right plane (HK snap hook loop should be horizontal, not vertical).
I may try to cantilever a longer rail back from the 9 o'clock slot and attach the Gear Sector HK attachment I have.
Obviously it is not out yet so it wouldn't be an immediate solution, but perhaps the upcoming MagPul RSA would do the trick. Release date is reportedly 'Spring 2010'...
http://www.magpuldynamics.com/images/pr_lg_rsa.jpg
Obviously it is not out yet so it wouldn't be an immediate solution, but perhaps the upcoming MagPul RSA would do the trick. Release date is reportedly 'Spring 2010'...
http://www.magpuldynamics.com/images/pr_lg_rsa.jpg
Thought the exact same thing when I saw it. Unfortunately I was hoping for a quicker solution.
I may try to just use the LPSM VTAC piece in the meantime.
Anyone know who has them in stock? Maybe someone that also has Noveske Receiver endplate QD mounts too?
haven't seen anyone that has both but Rainier Arms (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1363) has the endplate and SKD (http://www.skdtac.com/Viking_Tactics_Low_Profile_Sling_Mount_LPSM_p/vkg.210.htm) has the LPSM. Both offer flat rate shipping of roughly $8 and $5 respectively, if thats what you were concerned about. You might call John at Rainier and see if he can get the LPSM but just doesn't have it listed on the website, could save you the hassle of shopping twice.
Jay Cunningham
04-18-10, 17:17
Why not just use a wire loop?
I wound up piecing something together for the time being. I took the longer rail section with the QD swivel cup (rotation limited, thankfully) and mounted it at 10:30. I had to put the backing plate on backwards as the ridges on the inside of the tube only line up with the 3, 6, and 9 o'clock slots not the 45* slots. Seems to be working ok.
I also put one of the short rail sections on the bottom and it's exactly the right size for the TD Irish grip, and I'm going to try a Gear Sector hand stop on it too.
m1a_scoutguy
04-18-10, 23:59
Hey guys,,just got home from a local Gun Show today and got the 13 inch Troy TRX rail. I was wanting the 11 inch one but he was out & I bought the 13 inch instead. I was worried it would not look right,,but after throwing it together for a quick photo shoot I like it alot !! Its a build in progress,,I'll have all the gritty details in the next week or so,,but I think its gonna be a good rifle !!! What do ya think ? :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/m1ascoutguy/New145BBL003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/m1ascoutguy/New145BBL002.jpg
So far I have a:
DD14.5 Govt Profile BBL
DD M-16 BCG
Bravo Company Mod 3 CH
Troy Claymore MB ( I know,,better choices,,but I live in NY,,,:()
Vltor MUR-1 Upper
Troy Low Pro Gas Block (Set Screw type)
I really like how the TRX feels,,its Small and it feels light & I like the rounded rail,,just feels better in the hand. I was concerned about attaching the rail sections,,but if I choose to use them I think they will be fine.....I'm not a big vert grip guy anyways. I think I did ok also Money wise,,,I bought the 13 inch rail,,the Claymore MB and the Troy Gas block for $260 out the door !
16" Beowulf build with an 11" troy.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1043466/AlostDone%20(Medium).jpg
Hey guys,,just got home from a local Gun Show today and got the 13 inch Troy TRX rail. I was wanting the 11 inch one but he was out & I bought the 13 inch instead. I was worried it would not look right,,but after throwing it together for a quick photo shoot I like it alot !! Its a build in progress,,I'll have all the gritty details in the next week or so,,but I think its gonna be a good rifle !!! What do ya think ? :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/m1ascoutguy/New145BBL003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/m1ascoutguy/New145BBL002.jpg
So far I have a:
DD14.5 Govt Profile BBL
DD M-16 BCG
Bravo Company Mod 3 CH
Troy Claymore MB ( I know,,better choices,,but I live in NY,,,:()
Vltor MUR-1 Upper
Troy Low Pro Gas Block (Set Screw type)
I really like how the TRX feels,,its Small and it feels light & I like the rounded rail,,just feels better in the hand. I was concerned about attaching the rail sections,,but if I choose to use them I think they will be fine.....I'm not a big vert grip guy anyways. I think I did ok also Money wise,,,I bought the 13 inch rail,,the Claymore MB and the Troy Gas block for $260 out the door !
That looks hawt! Please let us know how the claymore performs, and the rifle in general.
I just put together this new rifle w/ the Troy 13" TRX Extreme Battlerail. I went with the Troy version version because I like the holes vs. the slots. I am going to try and get it to the range tomorrow.
I really didn't appreciate the weight or circumference of the rail until I actually got it in my hands. :)
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_35931.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_35941.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_35961.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_35981.jpg
Nice Rifle. Which Rail Mounted Fixed Front Sight is that?
I just put together this new rifle w/ the Troy 13" TRX Extreme Battlerail. I went with the Troy version version because I like the holes vs. the slots. I am going to try and get it to the range tomorrow.
I really didn't appreciate the weight or circumference of the rail until I actually got it in my hands. :)
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_35931.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_35941.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_35961.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_35981.jpg
Nice Rifle. Which Rail Mounted Fixed Front Sight is that?I went with the LMT front and rear. I needed to cut down the front LMT nut and replace it with a smaller nut as the stock nut was in the way of accessing the light mounted at 12 o'clock.
Surf,
What is that muzzle device? Do my eyes deceive me or is it completely closed on the left side while there are four vents on the right? Doesn't that move the gun laterally during rapid fire?
I also recently had a 13" rail put on a new build. This is Bravo's lightweight 16" middy with the 13" VTAC version of the TRX. I chose the VTAC version only because when I was part shopping a few weeks back, that was the only one I could find in stock. I didn't have any particular preference between the two versions so I grabbed it.
Robb (gotm4) shaved the FSB for me and I'm really happy with the result. It's 6.9 lbs unloaded (not including sling weight) and handles really nicely. I like being able to get my support hand far out on it.
http://byrong.com/trxbuild/DSC_4754-800.JPG
http://byrong.com/trxbuild/DSC_4093-800.JPG
Obviously this photo was taken before I had put the MBUS and light on.
I had just gotten the upper back from Robb and was testing it out with friends.
cfulback32
04-26-10, 12:49
http://byrong.com/trxbuild/DSC_4093-800.JPG
Very nice rifle and very nice LR3. I love those things.
Robb is working on a similar gun for me right now to use in the Larue match. BCM lightweight middy, 11" TRX rail and FSC556. I have a Burris XTR 1-4 waiting to go on it. Can't wait!
Robb Jensen
04-26-10, 13:26
Very nice rifle and very nice LR3. I love those things.
Robb is working on a similar gun for me right now to use in the Larue match. BCM lightweight middy, 11" TRX rail and FSC556. I have a Burris XTR 1-4 waiting to go on it. Can't wait!
You should be receiving it sometime this week. :D
Very nice rifle and very nice LR3. I love those things.
Thanks, but only the former belongs to me :mad:
Robb is working on a similar gun for me right now to use in the Larue match. BCM lightweight middy, 11" TRX rail and FSC556. I have a Burris XTR 1-4 waiting to go on it. Can't wait!
That sounds like it will be a sweet piece.
cfulback32
04-26-10, 14:07
You should be receiving it sometime this week. :D
Awesome! :D this will be my first big match and I can't wait to use the new upper! I'll be putting it through it's paces this weekend with some back to back testing against my Noveske n4 14.5" with smith vortex.
I'll be comparing the weight, handling, bench rest accuracy, recoil, etc, should be an interesting comparison! I'm having the feeling that the noveske might be going on the EE pretty soon...
My new build, with the 13 inch TRX Extreme on top of Bravo's 11.5 inch upper. Very pleased with the light weight, but still useful internal diameter.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs456.snc3/26069_111364678903481_100000898490754_71782_4490146_n.jpg
My new build, with the 13 inch TRX Extreme on top of Bravo's 11.5 inch upper. Very pleased with the light weight, but still useful internal diameter.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs456.snc3/26069_111364678903481_100000898490754_71782_4490146_n.jpgHave you shot your rifle in that configuration yet?
Have you shot your rifle in that configuration yet?
Yep. Put around 150 rounds through it today (well, yesterday at this point). I have put most of a .30cal ammo can's worth, maybe 350-400 rounds, through it total in the last two weeks. Scary actually when I think about it. That rate of consumption will have to decline...
Cool, was just wondering as I haven't thought to try the AFG in that manner. How do you like it?
That can must be one snug fit, but it does look like it clears just nicely. Looks great.
If this has been answered somewhere in this long thread and I overlooked it, I apologize for the repeat...
Once you have the nut installed from one, can you swap out for either the 'regular' Extreme or the VTAC versions at any time? I.E. since I currently have the VTAC version, could I slide it off and just slide on the Troy version at any time without changing the rest of the gun at all?
Robb Jensen
05-03-10, 06:49
If this has been answered somewhere in this long thread and I overlooked it, I apologize for the repeat...
Once you have the nut installed from one, can you swap out for either the 'regular' Extreme or the VTAC versions at any time? I.E. since I currently have the VTAC version, could I slide it off and just slide on the Troy version at any time without changing the rest of the gun at all?
Yes they are swappable w/o having to remove the barrel nut.
Be sure to really heat the bottom two screws. I use blue loc-tite on those. I use a butane torch or a heatgun.
sniperfrog
05-03-10, 16:26
Cool, was just wondering as I haven't thought to try the AFG in that manner. How do you like it?
That can must be one snug fit, but it does look like it clears just nicely. Looks great.
You know, I had been thinking of cutting off the front portion of my AFG because I never thought of just turning it backwards.
I think I'm going to try this out on my VTAC extreme.
If anyone has a picture of the barrel nut, I would like to see it. I'm thinking about using the Troy forend for a surpressed varmint build. I'm curious how stout the setup is.
Thanks
You know, I had been thinking of cutting off the front portion of my AFG because I never thought of just turning it backwards.
I think I'm going to try this out on my VTAC extreme.The only issue I might see is the gap created on these forends because of the lack of a continuous rail which might make it uncomfortable. I think I will turn one around right now just to check. :)
If anyone has a picture of the barrel nut, I would like to see it. I'm thinking about using the Troy forend for a surpressed varmint build. I'm curious how stout the setup is.
Thanks
http://generalcartridge.net/images/PICT3778.JPG
http://generalcartridge.net/images/PICT3779.JPG
Halfbreed_83
05-04-10, 07:40
Hi, I own a LWRC PSD and was wondering if any either of these handguards could POSSIBLY work with the gas piston system?
Thanks :D
Robb Jensen
05-04-10, 08:05
Hi, I own a LWRC PSD and was wondering if any either of these handguards could POSSIBLY work with the gas piston system?
Thanks :D
Nope too short of a rail.
Halfbreed_83
05-04-10, 15:51
Nope too short of a rail.
Thanks for your reply!
I was thinking about using the 11 inch handguard in conjunction with a KX3 flash hider and eventually a suppressor so length isn't the issue but the diameter is of more concern. I'm pretty sure the gas piston system is to big to work with the handguard. Is this the case?
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-07-10, 23:35
Just got my BCM stainless upper with the VTAC 13 inch rail. I'm really impressed. I have the last generation VTAC rail and I really like the rail on top. The rail doesn't get in the way of the thumb forward or the more aggresive overhand grip. Nice and light and seems to be strong.
I would like to try the Troy version with my Adam Arms piston. The 7.2" version will stop short of the gas block so that should be good to go. But I am wondering if there is enough clearance for the piston. Could anyone with the TRX and a micrometer tell me if they think the TRX meets at least the clearance shown here?
http://www.adamsarms.net/images/raildiagram.jpg
Thanks for the help!
Here's an 11" TRX on my completed Beowulf build. I love this handgaurd. I think for me the 11" is the perfect length. It's long enough for me to get an extended reach with my off hand and not too long to upset the balance of the rifle. I also think that aesthetically it looks better thank the longer 13" rails. I did have to remove some material from my PRI LP gas block as it was making contact with the rail on the bottom. Nothing a bench sander and some bbq paint couldn't fix though! :D
Someone needs to make a good QD socket for this rail. I keep hearing that Troy has something in the works but I haven't seen or heard anything definitive.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1043466/Wulf(Medium).jpg
Gatekeeper
05-10-10, 17:13
Shaved the FSB and installed the 13" Troy TRX extreme on my new 16" M&P after doing alot of research on this site and reading this thread.
Installation was pretty easy, and I'm a noob when it comes to working on AR's, haven't done much up to this point other than stripping and cleaning.
Lots of great info on this site!! Thanks
I really like the handguard so far and I'm also pleasantly surprised how well the AFG works for me.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh146/pittpiledriver/Mobile%20Uploads/rtSideBenched.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh146/pittpiledriver/Mobile%20Uploads/TroyExtBattlerail.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh146/pittpiledriver/Mobile%20Uploads/AFGandBUIS.jpg
TRX Extreme 13" with a8" Superior barrels Lothar Walther
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/madecov/ARMS/DSC01365.jpg
Gun has undergone a few changes that need to be photographed
Before anyone says anything, the scope is correctly mounted. It is a VOMZ (russian) 10x56 and uses a Darganov reticule
To those who have installed the VTAC Extreme rail: What tools are needed for installing it and could you please provide a brief guide to installing it or links to any relevant information?
Thank you.
Here's an 11" TRX on my completed Beowulf build. I love this handgaurd. I think for me the 11" is the perfect length. It's long enough for me to get an extended reach with my off hand and not too long to upset the balance of the rifle. I also think that aesthetically it looks better thank the longer 13" rails. I did have to remove some material from my PRI LP gas block as it was making contact with the rail on the bottom. Nothing a bench sander and some bbq paint couldn't fix though! :D
Someone needs to make a good QD socket for this rail. I keep hearing that Troy has something in the works but I haven't seen or heard anything definitive.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1043466/Wulf(Medium).jpg
Is that a 16" Barrel on your AR?
spamsammich
06-15-10, 19:34
To those who have installed the VTAC Extreme rail: What tools are needed for installing it and could you please provide a brief guide to installing it or links to any relevant information?
Thank you.
The rails come with pretty complete instructions and the TRX Extreme rails come with a proprietary barrel nut wrench. All you need to supply is a half inch drive torque wrench. I used a DPMS multi-wrench to install my VTAC rail and while not ideal, it worked. Make sure you do not use a wrench that only engages 3 of the teeth, the Troy wrench engages almost all of the teeth. This was by far the easiest rail installation that involved removing the barrel nut. Check youtube for walk throughs on it if you really feel like it's over your head.
http://www.youtube.com/user/aimsurplus#p/a/u/0/dejepDnTmC4
GLOCKMASTER
06-15-10, 20:28
I used a DPMS multi-wrench to install my VTAC rail and while not ideal, it worked. Make sure you do not use a wrench that only engages 3 of the teeth, the Troy wrench engages almost all of the teeth. Check youtube for walk throughs on it if you really feel like it's over your head.
http://www.youtube.com/user/aimsurplus#p/a/u/0/dejepDnTmC4
In bold is critical to the proper installation of the barrel nut for this rail system. I have used a DPMS multi wrench to install 3 rails so far and I have yet to have an issue.
organdonor
06-15-10, 21:42
Normally I opt for the most extreme choice but, both of these claiming to be extreme, I'm not sure which to pick. What are the chances that they're both truly extreme? I mean I could understand if one claimed to be "x-treme" and the other a slightly lesser "extreme"(hyphens are extremer) but both of them can't claim "extreme" -- it only serves to make me question the extremity of either product. This is why we have words like "tactical"... there has to be some sort of hierarchy here or people such as myself, who only want the best of the best(the most extreme, obviously), get confused.
Viking now sells the barrel nut wrench as an option for $10. Brownells has various build videos that cover the basics and the other tools needed such as the receiver block, punches, etc.
The VTAC barrel nut is on the light & delicate side and might not be the best to learn on, IMO. I had work mine quite a bit to keep the lbs of torque from exceeding the max.
I'm really liking my 13" rail on a Noveske 18" SPR barrel - pics are posted here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55851
Is that a 16" Barrel on your AR?
Yes. It's one of the AR Stoner Beowulf barrels made by Liberty.
Thank you for the replies. They've been extremely helpful.
Mine went on pretty flawlessly as well. Of course i didn't do it myself LOL
Thanks to Joe at Superior Firearms for putting up with me looking over his shoulder while he did it. :D
http://homepage.mac.com/kwelz/.Pictures/s&w1.jpg
Very nice piece, man.
Shaved the FSB and installed the 13" Troy TRX extreme on my new 16" M&P after doing alot of research on this site and reading this thread.
Installation was pretty easy, and I'm a noob when it comes to working on AR's, haven't done much up to this point other than stripping and cleaning.
Lots of great info on this site!! Thanks
I really like the handguard so far and I'm also pleasantly surprised how well the AFG works for me.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh146/pittpiledriver/Mobile%20Uploads/rtSideBenched.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh146/pittpiledriver/Mobile%20Uploads/TroyExtBattlerail.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh146/pittpiledriver/Mobile%20Uploads/AFGandBUIS.jpg
Congrats on a fine looking blaster.
Anyone come up with a good way to attach an HK ring to one of these, either of these tubes? Prefer not to have to attach a rail, just to attach a loop...
Anyone come up with a good way to attach an HK ring to one of these, either of these tubes? Prefer not to have to attach a rail, just to attach a loop...
The only think I can come up with is one of the upcoming RSAs on the top rail - everything else I think up is too much of a kludge. I wish Magpul would release the RSA already, I'm sick of being forced to run single point on my TRX-E.
Very similar to the Magpul RSA (if you can't wait):
http://kriss-tdi.com/kriss-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl1&product_id=69&category_id=16
Anyone come up with a good way to attach an HK ring to one of these, either of these tubes? Prefer not to have to attach a rail, just to attach a loop...
Rob.....would this (http://estore.websitepros.com/1891705/Detail.bok?no=444) work off the top rail?
Rob.....would this (http://estore.websitepros.com/1891705/Detail.bok?no=444) work off the top rail?
Unfortunately no.
Very similar to the Magpul RSA (if you can't wait):
http://kriss-tdi.com/kriss-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl1&product_id=69&category_id=16
I saw that mentioned elsewhere, and someone said that not only did they want $40 for the thing, but they also wanted $12+/- shipping on top of that! I'm not looking to cheap out here, but I'd sure like to find a less expensive solution.
Has anyone tried fitting the Magpul MOE vertical grip to the VTAC rail? Seems like it mounts to the MOE handguard in the same fashion.
Would eliminate the need for the bottom rail.
Has anyone tried fitting the Magpul MOE vertical grip to the VTAC rail? Seems like it mounts to the MOE handguard in the same fashion.
Would eliminate the need for the bottom rail.
I was thinking the same thing. I'm going to order one and see what I get.
Has anyone cut the 4" rail to minimize weight/bulk and to use the QD socket? Or if Troy plans on making a 2" w/QD socket?
I was looking at the ARP one, concerned about the nylon backing nut though?
Has anyone cut the 4" rail to minimize weight/bulk and to use the QD socket? Or if Troy plans on making a 2" w/QD socket?
IIRC it only has two screws, meaning you'd be cutting it down to only one screw, no?
Has anyone cut the 4" rail to minimize weight/bulk and to use the QD socket? Or if Troy plans on making a 2" w/QD socket?
I was looking at the ARP one, concerned about the nylon backing nut though?
I asked Troy this question several months ago and was told they had no plans of doing so.
Has anyone cut the 4" rail to minimize weight/bulk and to use the QD socket? Or if Troy plans on making a 2" w/QD socket?
I was looking at the ARP one, concerned about the nylon backing nut though?
I'm planning on using this off the top rail to address a QD slingpoint in lieu of a cut down 4-slot rail. Any reason this would not work?
http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html
Cheers,
Pk
I'm planning on using this off the top rail to address a QD slingpoint in lieu of a cut down 4-slot rail. Any reason this would not work?
http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html
Cheers,
Pk
I set up my SPR with 13" VTAC with that unit on the top rail and it seems to work fine.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1294/4696942103_eea2cf1b56_b.jpg
parishioner
06-21-10, 14:28
11" Vtac.
I think I'm going to replace the 4" rail for the 2" for less weight.
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/jordandalleman/VTAC204.jpg
Has anyone cut the 4" rail to minimize weight/bulk and to use the QD socket? Or if Troy plans on making a 2" w/QD socket?
I was looking at the ARP one, concerned about the nylon backing nut though?
I have cut one down so it was one screw and the QD socket.
I used red loctite on it.
It has gone through some hard use with zero problems.
PJ
11" Vtac.
I think I'm going to replace the 4" rail for the 2" for less weight.
[/IMG]
have you weighted this setup yet?
did it start life as a standard rifle/carbine? if so...
shot it yet before/after and notice an improvement in accuracy?
thanks
parishioner
06-21-10, 15:25
have you weighted this setup yet?
did it start life as a standard rifle/carbine? if so...
shot it yet before/after and notice an improvement in accuracy?
thanks
Unfortunately, I don't have a scale. It started life as a Noveske midlength basic. I just put the rail on yesterday so I have yet to shoot it.
I love my VTAC
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/UPSkald/IMG_0290.jpg
Unfortunately, I don't have a scale. It started life as a Noveske midlength basic. I just put the rail on yesterday so I have yet to shoot it.
jman4427 - Did you shave the original FSB or go with a new gas block?
parishioner
06-21-10, 16:41
jman4427 - Did you shave the original FSB or go with a new gas block?
Shaved it with a bench grinder and a band saw.
IIRC it only has two screws, meaning you'd be cutting it down to only one screw, no?
Correct, I guess I could experiement, worse comes to worse, a new rail isn't but so much. If I had a flat point drill I could make another hole in the 4", drill/tap the backer.
I'm planning on using this off the top rail to address a QD slingpoint in lieu of a cut down 4-slot rail. Any reason this would not work?
http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html
Cheers,
Pk
I may try that also, was looking at it earlier and thinking how it would ride on the top rail. Attach it right behind the Troy front.
I have had the chance to play with both HG's. My wifes has the troy extreme and my brother in law's has the vtac... I like the vtac mainly because I can put my finger tips in the troy's holes. I also like the finish on the Troy... it seems (looks) better, where the vtac is very very flat and a bit "grayer" in color... not sure if that makes sense.
As far as heat goes... the Troy did well after a mag dump... still able to hold the rifle although a bit uncomfortable. gloves would have been better.
Also has anyone been able to find a place to order another 4" rail for the Troy?
Thanks
Has anyone tried fitting the Magpul MOE vertical grip to the VTAC rail? Seems like it mounts to the MOE handguard in the same fashion.
Would eliminate the need for the bottom rail.
I got mine today. It fits, but doesn't match the curve. I'll mount it up tomorrow morning hopefully.
Mounted it up and it will require a lot more work to get it functional. First off, one of the downsides of any tube system like this is that getting the backing in where you want it can be a nightmare. In the case of the MOE vert grip it's even worse as it requires a long allen wrench for the screw and then you have to try and hold the backer inside the tube. Depending on where you want the grip there are areas, at least on the 11.0 tube I have, where it could be all but impossible. The longer tubes would just make that even harder.
The two issues I encountered were a difference of diameter and a screw too long. This is NOT a knock on Magpul as I'm forcing something into an application for which it was not intended. The MOE handguard is a different curvature than the VTAC tube which means that the ears stick out and leave gaps. Functionally I don't know if it's an issue or not but if I go forward with this combination I'll take a heat gun to it to reduce those gaps so that things don't get caught in them.
The screw issue can obviously be addressed by cutting it down, but it would need to be cut down prior to installation due to the depth, and a short screw could be very, very difficult to install due to the reach issue described above. The stock length of the screw makes contact with the barrel making re-installation of the tube impossible.
Ultimately I don't know what is gained by doing it this way other than having less joints (grip to tube instead of grip to rail to tube) and perhaps reduced overall weight.
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/tacticalyellowvisor/01%20misc/VTACrailMOEvertgrip.jpg
Robb Jensen
06-24-10, 07:44
Rob,
The grips seems to mount nice and high up on the tube.
I guess you could shorten the screws.
On my Troy/VTAC tubes I don't use the add on rails that come with them. Even with a low pro gas block these screws and rails can contact the bottom of the gas blocks if the Troy/VTAC tube is covering them.
The previous setup was the short rail and the TD stubby, which worked great. I mostly tried the MOE thing because someone in the thread mentioned it and it seemed like a good idea. I still think it may be a good idea, it's just going to need more tweaking.
I put the short rail and TD Stubby back on for now.
Thanks for conducting that experiment Rob
I think I'm going to try heating the hell out of the grip and mashing it up against the tube to change the curvature. :D
I think I'm going to try heating the hell out of the grip and mashing it up against the tube to change the curvature. :D
I'll hold your beer and watch.
Just food for thought, but I would try to re-contour using a belt sander or possibly a Dremel.
This looks like it is going to be a good sling solution for the Troy TRX version:
http://store.troyind.com/Q_D_Swivel_Push_Botton_360_Rail_Mount_p/srai-trx-herp-00.htm
Kind of spendy for what it is though.......
Has anyone cut the 4" rail to minimize weight/bulk and to use the QD socket? Or if Troy plans on making a 2" w/QD socket?
I was looking at the ARP one, concerned about the nylon backing nut though?Went through all those iterations. Ran the chopped 4" rail with a long backing plate and 2 screws and with also with just 1 screw. Didn't make a difference. I got the LPSM on the top rail and never looked back.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=512268&postcount=45
Also been wanting to flush a MOE foregrip in place of the chopped TD stubby.
Just food for thought, but I would try to re-contour using a belt sander or possibly a Dremel.
I see two potential problems with this, even though I thought of it too.
The first is that there are two small tabs that interface with the slots in the tub (this wouldn't work at all with the holes in the non-VTAC), and since the grip has only one screw these slots prevent rotation. Yes, if the contour fit the tube exactly it shouldn't rotate, but the tabs add another layer to the anti-rotation.
The second is that the material is pretty thin. I don't know if you could go deep enough to match the curvature without eating through the top of the grip where the screw goes. At best you'd weaken that area.
Regardless of the above, if I can find a sanding drum the exact diameter as the OD of the tube I'd get myself a bench grinder and give it a go.
How well do the slots in the grip match the slots in the Vtac rail?
Are they good and snug? A little loose? Floppy?
Exiledviking
06-27-10, 17:27
What is the outer diameter of the Troy TRX? I may have missed it in reading this thread.
Anybody else have their helcoils back out on them? I haven't even got a chance to wring mine out yet. Took it to the range to sight it in after installation and then removed it to add a short rail to add a light. When I tightened the screws per instructions, the screw kept turning and I noticed the helicoil was pulled out. I called Troy and they emailed me a return shipping label minutes later. Fast forward 2 1/2 weeks and my rail came back repaired. Today I installed it and when I tightened the screws again per instructions, the same helicoil backed out. Someone on TOS suggested just getting some screws and nuts and tightening it with those. I really don't feel like sending it out for repair again if it's going to come back all jacked up again. I want to like this rail but it's far from durable since it seems to be a single use install and if I want to install rails at some point, it will need to go back to Troy for repair again. Has anyone else here had problems with the helicons and just Jerry rigged it with different screws and nuts? I wouldn't even feel comfortable selling this thing even after Troy repairs it again.
spamsammich
06-27-10, 23:41
An n=1 hardly means that the rail is far from durable. I would say you are in the minority with this issue. Why not give the manufacturer another chance to make it right? It seems like they tried to do good by you. Ask for a replacement, not a repair. It could be that the rail in question has a defect that a replacement helicoil just can't solve.
I've had two of these rails and taken them off multiple times each with no problems. I use blue loctite and only tighten them about a quarter turn past snug to secure them.
Anybody else have their helcoils back out on them? I haven't even got a chance to wring mine out yet. Took it to the range to sight it in after installation and then removed it to add a short rail to add a light. When I tightened the screws per instructions, the screw kept turning and I noticed the helicoil was pulled out. I called Troy and they emailed me a return shipping label minutes later. Fast forward 2 1/2 weeks and my rail came back repaired. Today I installed it and when I tightened the screws again per instructions, the same helicoil backed out. Someone on TOS suggested just getting some screws and nuts and tightening it with those. I really don't feel like sending it out for repair again if it's going to come back all jacked up again. I want to like this rail but it's far from durable since it seems to be a single use install and if I want to install rails at some point, it will need to go back to Troy for repair again. Has anyone else here had problems with the helicons and just Jerry rigged it with different screws and nuts? I wouldn't even feel comfortable selling this thing even after Troy repairs it again.
At this point I would contact them, advise them that it still has the problem, and ask them to ship you out a new one with a return label for the old one. I would have no problem giving them a CC# for their "security" if they wanted.
This was just to see how it sat on the rail etc... just a quick mock up... I am planing on welding a tube that fits the ID of the hole on the troy to the loop. It is simply a sling mount from a collapsible stock.
It would be easy to turn it horizontal and use with a H+K clip if needed.
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL578/3246321/6637900/389661333.jpg
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL578/3246321/6637900/389661332.jpg
I wonder if a shorter one of those (less side to side room for smaller sling clips ala HK clips) could work, and fit on the upper diagonal rails? That would be awesome.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/4794791337_da96b43db5_b.jpg
This was my solution to adding a handstop stub to the TRX without using rail sections.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4753705294_1e24943404.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4753066637_d02482e2f1.jpg
I wanted low-profile, comfortable and needed it now so I turned it to profile, threaded and ground it to fit. Now to get rid of the side rail for the QD sling socket...
Impact Weapons Components (http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/flash.html) plans on releasing several sling attachment solutions for the slotted mounting design on the VTAC rails including one for the MS2/MS3.
Here's a pic of their QD socket prototype
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii318/uglyfireduck/Mountinslot.jpg
Just thought I'd share since many people have been asking for something like this.
I went with the Troy.
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab292/shiro128c/rifle/PIC-0064.jpg
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab292/shiro128c/rifle/PIC-0074.jpg
Has anyone tried the wire rope from blue force gear ?
This was my solution to adding a handstop stub to the TRX without using rail sections.
I wanted low-profile, comfortable and needed it now so I turned it to profile, threaded and ground it to fit. Now to get rid of the side rail for the QD sling socket...
I love it. Is that just a socket from a socket set?
I'm interested in these rails but want some kind of indexing stop for it... is this the closest anyone has gotten?
I love it. Is that just a socket from a socket set?
No, not quite. I machined it from bar stock. Works quite well and even though it's steel it isn't terribly heavy.
Atticus_1354
07-28-10, 01:27
So does the troy come with a wrench and the VTAC does not? I am thinking about going with the 11" vtac on my 18" build. Anyone have any picture of the 11" on an 18" gun?
YammyMonkey
08-01-10, 23:52
I've installed one of each & it certainly isn't hard to use a DPMS or similar wrench to install the nut if you like the VTAC version better. Just make sure you use the side that covers a lot of the spines on the nut as opposed to the pins.
PrivateCitizen
08-05-10, 18:48
http://i49.tinypic.com/wjjek4.jpg
That is a mid length, yes?
(I know it seems an odd question)
dennisuello
08-05-10, 19:02
That is a mid length, yes?
(I know it seems an odd question)
by looking at the barrel profile and location of the gas block, it's a middy.
That is a mid length, yes?
(I know it seems an odd question)
My new build "Dimples"
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=48983
the_fallguy
08-06-10, 01:08
I see two potential problems with this, even though I thought of it too.
The first is that there are two small tabs that interface with the slots in the tub (this wouldn't work at all with the holes in the non-VTAC), and since the grip has only one screw these slots prevent rotation. Yes, if the contour fit the tube exactly it shouldn't rotate, but the tabs add another layer to the anti-rotation.
The second is that the material is pretty thin. I don't know if you could go deep enough to match the curvature without eating through the top of the grip where the screw goes. At best you'd weaken that area.
Regardless of the above, if I can find a sanding drum the exact diameter as the OD of the tube I'd get myself a bench grinder and give it a go.
I think you are right about the material being too thin. I believe the best way re-shape the grip work would be to rough up the inside of it and fill it with about 3/8" of acraglas before re-drilling the center hole and sanding the top of the grip to match the contour of the tube.
I already have a sanding drum from Grizzly that is just shy of the tube's diameter. I think it would work nicely for this project. I'll have to get some acraglas and give it a try. I'll post some pics if I have any sucess.
The Viking Tactics website says the barrel wrench is included:
[/URL]
[url]http://www.vikingtactics.com/handguard.html (http://www.vikingtactics.com/handguard.html)
spamsammich
08-19-10, 17:17
The Viking Tactics website says the barrel wrench is included:
[/URL]
[url]http://www.vikingtactics.com/handguard.html (http://www.vikingtactics.com/handguard.html)
None of the three rails I've used had the wrench.
the_fallguy
08-19-10, 20:24
Last month my father in law ordered a 13" VTAC version from Bravo Company, and it included the wrench. I ordered a 9" VTAC from a different vendor a few weeks later that did not include a wrench. I am willing to bet that mine is older stock, and the wrench is now included in current production.
Having a 9.0 from each in my hands I took some comparison photos. I find the difference in the wall thickness to be interesting. The picture is from the muzzle end. At the barrel nut end the profile of both walls is the same as theVTAC on the right in the picture below. The TRX rail gets thinner approximately 6" from the nut end.
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/tacticalyellowvisor/WEIGHTS/all.jpg
I went with the Troy.
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab292/shiro128c/rifle/PIC-0064.jpg
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab292/shiro128c/rifle/PIC-0074.jpg
OutBack sounds good. I havent eaten there in a long time.
Thanks for your reply!
I was thinking about using the 11 inch handguard in conjunction with a KX3 flash hider and eventually a suppressor so length isn't the issue but the diameter is of more concern. I'm pretty sure the gas piston system is to big to work with the handguard. Is this the case?
I put a 13" TRX on my LWRC and have put a few hundred rounds through it w/ no problem. Its a tight fit and took some drimmel work to get it on however.
here's mine on a complete Larue..
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4893641287_c53a2deaf6_b.jpg
On the subject of weight, be sure you are comparing apples:apples, and understand what you're getting yourself into with these tubes.
One could make the argument that the VTAC 9.0 is functionally no lighter than the DD M4 9.0 rail. Others may argue that the DD rail "needs" covers which add to the weight (I don't think it does, they are very well rounded rail sections), but the counter is that the Troy tubes have no heat resistance. We can go 'round and 'round on this, but the point of this post is simply be careful what you change in the thinking that it's going to get lighter. It may not when all is said and done.
Starting point
Colt 6933 upper w/ shaved FSB and DD 9.0 M4 rail
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/weights/0971d530.jpg
Same upper, DD swapped for VTAC
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/weights/78ad8317.jpg
Add bottom rail section for VFG
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/weights/ec66aed5.jpg
you can add 2.8 oz. to each of these for DD fixed front & rear BUIS
upper w/ M4 rail & sights 2lbs 13oz
upper w/ VTAC rail & sights 2lbs 12.4oz
upper w. VTAC tube, lower rail, & sights 2lbs 13.2oz
6933 MOE upper for comparison 3lbs 1oz
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/weights/fe3b8896.jpg
Then there is the issue of the 9.0 Troy products being longer than other makes, which may cause issues with your other accessories.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/00f44f58.jpg
note the clearance for the can, or lack thereof. This was not an issue with the DD tube installed. Also the smooth transition from the Troy tube to the can means it is VERY easy to sneak the hand forward to the hot can, thereby necessitating adding MORE weight for a longer rail section and hand stop of some sort. Note also the lack of concentricity of the tube. Barrel and can are in line, as there has never been a baffle strike. Unsure if this will lead to sighting issues with irons or not.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/a6af156d.jpg
Wow, Rob. I think you'd reeeeally dig my 10.5"/9.0VTAC setup for the M4S.
The lack of concentricity is my primary issue on that one - might have to open up the ID further on the bottom, it seems like it's 5-8 thousandths even after the shop had opened up the ID to 1.6.
Rob, have you found anything similar to your MOE handguard front sling mount (just the bracket part) that would span between the two slits on the VTAC that might serve as a good mount (until the RSA shows up)?
Looks like TROY is releasing their QD insert for the Troy version, which won't work on the VTAC.
This makes me ALMOST willing to try a Magpul FAG grip as it could provide the vert grip and forward handstop function all in one part. Liked that other guy's install that bolted it right up to the FF tube. Might have to dig up that thread.
Anyone run a fixed FSB with one of these?? I'm interested in one of these for my BCM 16" Middy. I don't need all the rail space and like a FSB .
I ordered a Vtac 9.0 a couple of months back that did not include the wrench. The 11.0 Vtac I ordered two weeks ago from Rainier came with the wrench included.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/4794791337_da96b43db5_b.jpg
This was my solution to adding a handstop stub to the TRX without using rail sections.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4753705294_1e24943404.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4753066637_d02482e2f1.jpg
I wanted low-profile, comfortable and needed it now so I turned it to profile, threaded and ground it to fit. Now to get rid of the side rail for the QD sling socket...
I really think there is a decent market for a direct bolt-on handstop for the Troy & Vtac rails that looks more like a handstop that matches the curve of the Extreme tubes and is compatible with both the Troy and the Vtac versions.
Any one use a full size FSB and mount one of these tubes just in front on a 16" middy?
I would like to keep my FSB, but if I have to mill it down, I will.
I really think there is a decent market for a direct bolt-on handstop for the Troy & Vtac rails that looks more like a handstop that matches the curve of the Extreme tubes and is compatible with both the Troy and the Vtac versions.
You may want to suggest it to IWC/Mount-N-Slot - they seem to be very receptive to new ideas for these tubes.
Any one use a full size FSB and mount one of these tubes just in front on a 16" middy?
I would like to keep my FSB, but if I have to mill it down, I will.
I can't recall seeing a pic, but if you really like the look of the standard FSB, check out the LMT piece that attaches to a rail. I'm using one on my gun and I love it.
(it's flipped around on my rifle so the big nut doesn't interfere with the mounting of the light)
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m255/90Z51/Guns/Competition%20AR/DSC_3520.jpg
Not a bad idea. Anyone make one of those railed FSB's with out the large knurled knob??
Not a bad idea. Anyone make one of those railed FSB's with out the large knurled knob??
Check out the Daniel Defense. Brownells carries them I think, if you get the discount the price is pretty good. $50+/- for the front, $60+/- for the rear.
Yesterday I received one of the new IWC Mount-N-Slot rotation limited QD mounts for T&E. It mounts up quick and tight, and I could even mount it in the rearmost hole unlike the internal QD socket that's on the market - plenty of clearance. It's very nicely made and finished, and quite a bit smaller than I expected it to be:
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/MNS-TRXE-QD-1.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/MNS-TRXE-QD-2.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/MNS-TRXE-QD-3.jpg
I'm amazed at how quickly IWC has been developing and bringing accessories to market!
Does it match and curve around the tube? Any idea if it will fit in the slot of the VTAC version, or if they have one coming out that will?
I'd like to see them do a handstop/VFG that matched that curve as well. Something that starts life bigger than the KAC, Gear Sector, and other stops out there but that can be cut down by the user to tune it to the size needed.
Does it match and curve around the tube? Any idea if it will fit in the slot of the VTAC version, or if they have one coming out that will?
I'd like to see them do a handstop/VFG that matched that curve as well. Something that starts life bigger than the KAC, Gear Sector, and other stops out there but that can be cut down by the user to tune it to the size needed.
Yes and yes. From their website, they're offering two versions - 1.75" OD and 2" OD.
Drop them a line regarding the handstop, they're very receptive to ideas from end users. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they already have a handstop in the works.
hey... does anyone know about this???
I just read this quote from "Timmy" in a thread about the VTAC rail on another site concerning QD points:
"I wanted to mount the sling as far out as possible to take advantage of the extra leverage and recoil reduction this provides. I also wanted to keep the profile as small as possible. It just didn’t feel right to use a two or four inch section of rail to mount a sling to. So out came the chop saw and Emory cloth and presto! A rail section just enough for the QD. The 3 and 9 o’clock slits in the rail do not go to the end. Attaching the QD at the factory provided slit puts it right where I want my hand to go. So, out came the drill press and voila! I cut my own mounting point at the very end or the rail. Now I’d like to take this opportunity to mention the Troy version of the VTAC comes with predrilled QD points at the very end of the rail."
can anyone confirm this?
the_fallguy
09-14-10, 21:05
Both versions come with one section of rail that has a QD point in the end - that might be what he is referring to, but I'm not sure since he keeps calling the tube itself a "rail". If he is referring to the tube, then he is incorrect; the VTAC version does not have integral QD points in it.
Both versions come with one section of rail that has a QD point in the end - that might be what he is referring to, but I'm not sure since he keeps calling the tube itself a "rail". If he is referring to the tube, then he is incorrect; the VTAC version does not have integral QD points in it.
yeah, confusing. that's why I asked. after reading your comment, I think he means one of the rail sections that come with the Troy handguard has a QD point already drilled into it but the ones that come with the VTAC do not. do they?
at first it seemed to me that he was saying the handguard itself is drilled for a QD point and this is what I was asking.
to confirm, the Troy TRX Extreme handguard has no QD points available except on the attachable rail section, correct?
the_fallguy
09-15-10, 17:27
Both the Troy and the VTAC versions have a 4" rail section with a QD point in one end. Neither version has an integral QD point in the tube itself.
I personally prefer a higher attachment point like the LPSM over the attached rail section that comes with the tube in any case, but that is of course, personal preference.
Northern Woods
09-15-10, 19:38
Is the Troy Q.D. swivel (http://store.troyind.com/Q_D_Swivel_Push_Botton_360_Rail_Mount_p/srai-trx-herp-00.htm)worth waiting for? I spoke with a rep at Troy who suggested that they would be available around the end of September. I had been planning on the Viking Tactics Low Profile Sling Mount (http://vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html). Other than the opportunity to have something that mounts on the side of the rail are there likely other advantages to the VTAC mount?
Is the Troy Q.D. swivel (http://store.troyind.com/Q_D_Swivel_Push_Botton_360_Rail_Mount_p/srai-trx-herp-00.htm)worth waiting for? I spoke with a rep at Troy who suggested that they would be available around the end of September.
man, they're awful proud of that...
Mike Miller
09-15-10, 21:34
I dont have a sling with QD hardware yet, but does anyone have experience using one of these for the VTAC handguard?
http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPHGS
I dont have a sling with QD hardware yet, but does anyone have experience using one of these for the VTAC handguard?
http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPHGS
what for? I think that's a stud for those hunting sling disconnects like the Uncle Mikes. or maybe a bipod attachment.
I guess you could use it but I've never seen it done...
Mike Miller
09-15-10, 22:21
Ok. I never have seen any QD hardware in person, I did not know if that hole was sized correctly for it. Thank you.
I have a JP VTAC tube on another rifle and it came with 2 of those sling mounts. I had to use the backer from the TRX tube but the stud screwed right in. I used a flat washer that fits the hole to keep it from falling through.
This works good enough for a bi-pod mount but I wouldn't trust it for a sling, can't really say why but I prefer the VTAC sling mount that attaches to the top of the rail.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/TOM64/trx003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/TOM64/trx001.jpg
what for? I think that's a stud for those hunting sling disconnects like the Uncle Mikes. or maybe a bipod attachment.
I guess you could use it but I've never seen it done...
Remember those sling swivels are also used on nearly every bolt action sniper rifle around too. Given a flat washer heavy enough and the backer left long enough, the "hunter" swivels are plenty sturdy.
But as I said I prefer the QD mount from VTAC.
The JP-VTAC and the VTAC Extreme are different products. The JP-VTAC is set up for the the sling swivel attachment point - the Extreme is not.
Yesterday I received one of the new IWC Mount-N-Slot rotation limited QD mounts for T&E. It mounts up quick and tight, and I could even mount it in the rearmost hole unlike the internal QD socket that's on the market - plenty of clearance. It's very nicely made and finished, and quite a bit smaller than I expected it to be:
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/MNS-TRXE-QD-1.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/MNS-TRXE-QD-2.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/MNS-TRXE-QD-3.jpg
I'm amazed at how quickly IWC has been developing and bringing accessories to market!
Thanks for the heads-up / post. Ordered mine from IWC this week.
I liked the older VTAC on my old setup...comfortable and well made.
http://healthbydon.com/ar15sopmodhdr.jpg
Sorry for the side note, but I really do dislike the look of the Magpul RVG's.
Sorry for the side note, but I really do dislike the look of the Magpul RVG's.
Dislike the way they look because you think they will somehow be less functional or dislike the way they look because you find them aesthetically displeasing?
It is a pure aesthetic thing. I know taste is subjective but for me they look large and block like or rather clunky looking. On the RVG I also do not like the looks of the double screws/hex heads either. The MVG is nicer in this area due to the attachment difference, but they just don't do it for me.
As for function I am sure they work, but my stubbies were pretty much just finger stops and I know you can cut down the RVG, but they just aren't my thing. They look like an afterthought and a growth on the rifle. Just not sexy.
And yes I know sexy has nothing to do with function. :)
to my eyes it appears the RVG and MVG have the same profile except for the taller part for the rail attachment and the screws. is this the part you don't like?
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