Colt "Low Mass Hammer" ????

[Razorhunter]

I have recently heard of Ken at SAW recommending installing a "Low Mass Hammer" AND "blue trigger spring" in Colt rifles for a reliability upgrade.

Can anyone here tell me what exactly this low mass hammer and blue spring does to a stock Colt trigger?
How does it affect the trigger, and how does it help reliability?
Most importantly, HOW does it affect trigger pull and feel?
Somewhere on the net, I recently read about JPRifles "low mass hammer" and how it helped with "reset time" or something like that, and I THINK it even mentioned that it helps fire a semi auto rifle FASTER (more RPM)..
????

It's hard getting through to SAW on the phone sometimes, and I'm guessing it's harder to get Ken himself. Not that I need him though. You guys are a WORLD of knowledge, SO,

Can anyone give the LOW DOWN on the "Low Mass Hammer" and "Blue Colt Trigger Spring"???

[jmart]

Not sure if it's the same for the Colt parts, but the deal with the JP kit is use of the JP springs yields a lighter pull weight. But to achieve the lighter pull the springs aren't as powerful as stock springs.

If you just swap out the spring without changing to a lighter hammer you run the risk of misfires -- the spring simply can't get the hammer going fast enough to get a good whack on the FP. But by going to a lighter hammer you do get the good whack.

[xenophobe]

You mean like this? The low mass hammer is part of their match trigger assembly. It's a nice non-adjustable single stage trigger. Some smooth creep but crisp break. Not quite like a small "glass rod breaking" like my KAC, but still very nice.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3010/hbar5mb.jpg

[Aubrey]

The blue spring is for the hammer, not the trigger. The reduced-mass hammer needs an appropriate spring to ensure reliable primer strikes.

[Razorhunter]

Ok guys, well coincidentally I just got off the phone with Tina from SAW. I tell ya, they are BUSY. Been calling for 5 days and I am just now finally getting through. (they have SEVEN phone lines too!)
Anyhow, Tina and Ken are such great people though!
SO, Tina tells me that the standard Colt 6920 trigger is anywhere between 7 and 10lbs.
If you install the Colt Low Mass Hammer and Blue Spring, you will get a trigger pull that is roughly 3.5 - 4lbs.
The LM Hammer and Blue Spring do NOT affect the amount of trigger travel, and they do not affect the reset time or anything else like that, which of course figures.

I am going to save most of the trigger discussion for another thread, but I will say that I'm on a mission to find the BEST trigger for me.
I want a trigger system that will reduce the pull to 3.5-4lbs, will be CRISP as all hell, and RELIABLE as all hell.
MOST IMPORTANTLY however, I want a trigger that does not have SO MUCH TRAVEL, and Reset time!
It must also be SINGLE stage if it's going in my 16" carbine. I just have no use for a 2 stage trigger in a carbine/CQB weapon.
Now I don't know if such a trigger exists, but I will soon attempt to find out.
Thanks so much guys.

[jmart]

Contact Accuracy Speaks and run your requirements by them. They may have what you're looking for.

[jmart]

Ok guys, well coincidentally I just got off the phone with Tina from SAW. I tell ya, they are BUSY. Been calling for 5 days and I am just now finally getting through. (they have SEVEN phone lines too!)
Anyhow, Tina and Ken are such great people though!
SO, Tina tells me that the standard Colt 6920 trigger is anywhere between 7 and 10lbs.
If you install the Colt Low Mass Hammer and Blue Spring, you will get a trigger pull that is roughly 3.5 - 4lbs.
The LM Hammer and Blue Spring do NOT affect the amount of trigger travel, and they do not affect the reset time or anything else like that, which of course figures.

I am going to save most of the trigger discussion for another thread, but I will say that I'm on a mission to find the BEST trigger for me.
I want a trigger system that will reduce the pull to 3.5-4lbs, will be CRISP as all hell, and RELIABLE as all hell.
MOST IMPORTANTLY however, I want a trigger that does not have SO MUCH TRAVEL, and Reset time!
It must also be SINGLE stage if it's going in my 16" carbine. I just have no use for a 2 stage trigger in a carbine/CQB weapon.
Now I don't know if such a trigger exists, but I will soon attempt to find out.
Thanks so much guys.

Another oiption you may want to consider is usage of a Superior Arms lower. These include an adjustable screw to limit trigger overtravel. I have no hands on with these, but the concept has been around for quite awhile. Perhaps others who have used tehse can comment on how effective this feature is. Regardless, I'd be pretty careful and advise not getting too greedy with such and adjustment -- you want a bit of overtravel for reliability and you may need to use some thread locking compound to make sure the screw doesn't move once adjusted.

[QuietShootr]

Is this a range/match toy or a home defense/fighting tool?

[Razorhunter]

It's a Fighting/CQB weapon, and that's the SOLE reason I have not just bought and popped in the first match trigger I could find.
I want something that is exactly like the stock Colt trigger in every way, EXCEPT MINUS the long travel.
I would just prefer to shorten the trigger TRAVEL and reset length up a bit....

[John Hearne]

Does anyone know what size FCG pins these low mass hammers have?

[TWR]

I know "fighting" weapons aren't supposed to have adjustable screws but if you're that worried about the trigger pull, Brownells sells a grip screw that has a smaller screw inside of it that takes out the creep or take up.
It works similar to the Superior Arms lower mentioned above. Part # 072-000-001AA

Now if you just want to have a reliable trigger, leave the Colt factory trigger alone.

[Robb Jensen]

Does anyone know what size FCG pins these low mass hammers have?


I have one in my Colt 6721 and it's a .170" pin, I use it with the blue hammer spring. Both are from Specialized Armament.

[Aubrey]

gotm4,
Do you have any experience or at least an opinion on the service life of the spring?

[KDG]

SO, Tina tells me that the standard Colt 6920 trigger is anywhere between 7 and 10lbs.
If you install the Colt Low Mass Hammer and Blue Spring, you will get a trigger pull that is roughly 3.5 - 4lbs.



Is it the concensous that a lighter trigger pull is the best for a combat weapon used under stress? Even the high end pistols have light trigger pulls.

For me (and it may be due to my inexperience) find that under stress, I am more confident on using a weapon with a heavier trigger.

I know a light trigger is great for target shooting and accuracy....

The stock 6920 trigger is gritty and notchy when new, but gets smoother after use.

[KiloSierra]

Is it the concensous that a lighter trigger pull is the best for a combat weapon used under stress? Even the high end pistols have light trigger pulls.

The general consensus among people who either do not want to spend the money on proper training, or who do not realize the value of proper training, or who just straight out don't know what their talking about is that you need a heavy trigger pull to prevent negligent discharges. High end pistols are either used only on the range or are used by people who know what they're doing(and are firm believers in keeping your "CENSORED" finger off the "CENSORED" trigger until your going to shoot the "CENSORED" "CENSORED").

What constitutes a heavy and a light trigger pull varies from person to person and from gun to gun though, and you definitely don't need or want a trigger that's to light(with that being defined as needing conscious thought and action to prevent negligent discharges). My issued Glock 35 has a factory stock "4.5 lb" trigger which measured on a scale out to 4.75 lbs. It honestly feels heavier to me then the 10 lb double action pull on my PT92. I shot a S&W 4043 that had a trigger that felt lighter than the 5.5 lb pull on one of my 1911's. I wasn't able to measure the trigger pull on that one, but every DAO S&W auto I've checked had a 8-9 lb pull. Personally, off duty I carry either a Taurus 24/7 9mm with a "acceptable" 5-5.5 lb(estimated) pull or a Taurus 1911 with "good" 4-4.5 lb(estimated) pull, shoot a "target" rifle with a "heavy" 3.5 lb pull(to be fixed as soon as I pick a trigger), a box stock Ruger MkIII .22 with a even lighter pull(and suffer occasional negligent double taps at the range), and hate the extremely heavy 7+ lb pull on AR's and would love a reliable 5-6 lb(either crisp or with extremely smooth creep) pull on a CQB AR and a crisp 3.5-4 lb pull a PR AR.

[Robb Jensen]

gotm4,
Do you have any experience or at least an opinion on the service life of the spring?

No idea. I guess 5K rounds.

[KDG]

The general consensus among people who either do not want to spend the money on proper training, or who do not realize the value of proper training, or who just straight out don't know what their talking about is that you need a heavy trigger pull to prevent negligent discharges. High end pistols are either used only on the range or are used by people who know what they're doing(and are firm believers in keeping your "CENSORED" finger off the "CENSORED" trigger until your going to shoot the "CENSORED" "CENSORED").

What constitutes a heavy and a light trigger pull varies from person to person and from gun to gun though, and you definitely don't need or want a trigger that's to light(with that being defined as needing conscious thought and action to prevent negligent discharges). My issued Glock 35 has a factory stock "4.5 lb" trigger which measured on a scale out to 4.75 lbs. It honestly feels heavier to me then the 10 lb double action pull on my PT92. I shot a S&W 4043 that had a trigger that felt lighter than the 5.5 lb pull on one of my 1911's. I wasn't able to measure the trigger pull on that one, but every DAO S&W auto I've checked had a 8-9 lb pull. Personally, off duty I carry either a Taurus 24/7 9mm with a "acceptable" 5-5.5 lb(estimated) pull or a Taurus 1911 with "good" 4-4.5 lb(estimated) pull, shoot a "target" rifle with a "heavy" 3.5 lb pull(to be fixed as soon as I pick a trigger), a box stock Ruger MkIII .22 with a even lighter pull(and suffer occasional negligent double taps at the range), and hate the extremely heavy 7+ lb pull on AR's and would love a reliable 5-6 lb(either crisp or with extremely smooth creep) pull on a CQB AR and a crisp 3.5-4 lb pull a PR AR.

You hit the nail on the head...a trigger light enough to have to have conscious thought about it.

I recently aquired a Wilson QBC with a light trigger, it rivals my revolvers when cocked to single action ..about 3.5 lbs which is much lighter then my previous and current 1911's.
At the range it is great, deadly accurate, but I do have to use part of my concentration on the light trigger pull which to me seems counter productive when wanting to focus on other aspects..such as quicker target acquisition, or any quick resonse shooting.
I admit to lack of proper training, and wanted to hear from what others thought on this topic who are in the know.
And will keep training with the Wilson until I either feel comfortable with a super light trigger or send it off to have it re calibrated to 4.5 to 5lbs as for me a heavier trigger pull doesn't affect my accuracy to much at all. A crisp clean break means more.

As far as the stock AR Colt trigger, after break in, and it definetly needs break in, seems about just right for me.

Ken

[Hoplite]

I don't like the idea of using light hammer springs. A low mass hammer is fine, but I want a hammer that releases fast after the break and to strike the primer with sufficient force. A slow falling hammer would seem to not only be a detriment to accuracy but could lead to function problems.
I use a KAC trigger tweaked down to 2.5lbs for my Benchrest AR. I use the strongest hammer spring I could find and bent the legs to give it even more tension. On the other hand I use a very light trigger spring and disconnector spring. Crisp break, but light-weight. Strickly for target shooting, of course.

[John Fettes]

I have tried a JP reduced power (yellow) trigger spring set in my Colt's MT-6731 (16" 1/9 HB) with the stock hammer. The trigger pull weight with the stock springs was about eight pounds. The JP spring kit dropped the pull weight to four pounds, with 100% reliability. This is a range gun.

John

[Kisara]

On TD2 of a 3-day carbine class, I swapped the factory Colt springs for the JP yellow spring kit ($10 @ Brownell's). It was a nice, noticible difference in feel. I also had several FTF/light primer strikes using 75gr practice TAP that day (none on TD1). Back at the motel that night, I switched the Colt springs back in. Zero problems on TD3.

I gave the springs to my dad, who uses his AR for target shooting only.

DON'T use these on a fighting weapon! Dean Caputo says the same in his Armorer Diagnostics course.