View Full Version : Patrol Rifles
sheriffjrs4
02-06-10, 17:42
I am going to buy a Patrol rifle for work and have never owned a AR type rifle. Are there any suggestions on the brand, barrell twist, reliability, ect. that I should be looking at since there are so many out there? I am looking at spending about 1200 for one. I was looking at a Yankee Hill black diamond but have not found any reviews on this rifle.
Have you looked at this?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
How about this....?
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&gid=5
The further left that you pick from the chart, the more likely you are going to get a rifle that is durable, reliable, and of excellent performance.
You can't go wrong with a Colt M4(#6920). If you don't like the $1300 price tag, you can go with a Bravo Company Manufacturing M4 for about $100-200 less.
sheriffjrs4
02-06-10, 18:25
thanks this will be a lot of help
arizonaranchman
02-06-10, 18:40
The closest thing you can come to GTG "out of the box" would be to go BCM. Get their lower with collapsible stock and an M4 upper and you're in business. Then it's just a matter of what you want for sights.
The closest thing you can come to GTG "out of the box" would be to go BCM. Get their lower with collapsible stock and an M4 upper and you're in business. Then it's just a matter of what you want for sights.
Hold on, there are others as well. Colt, Daniel Defense. A Noveske and LMT would work as well. BCM is as good as anyone IMO but I would not rate them as better than everyone as you seem to suggest.
Shop around and you can find some good deals. I got a Colt 6920 about two weeks ago for $1099. I was actually looking at BCM but at that price I didn't feel I could do any better.
arizonaranchman
02-06-10, 19:45
Hold on, there are others as well. Colt, Daniel Defense. A Noveske and LMT would work as well. BCM is as good as anyone IMO but I would not rate them as better than everyone as you seem to suggest.
Shop around and you can find some good deals. I got a Colt 6920 about two weeks ago for $1099. I was actually looking at BCM but at that price I didn't feel I could do any better.
You're absolutely correct on that... There are a number of near-perfect out of the box choices. I wasn't intending to suggest BCM was THE ONE, but just giving him a down n dirty simple answer to his question.
He should do his homework and spend some time studying all this, but I don't know the gentleman or how much time or desire he has to do this sort of research. The myriad of choices and combinations becomes mind boggling when you really get into these rifles. My intent was to offer a simple, quality item that IMHO would be fairly hard to beat. The same could be said of any of several others (perhaps LMT, Colt, DD, etc).
Choose a quality firearm, optic, and accessories. In the AR world there generally isn't much of a price difference between quality and junk. Do your research and buy quality. Remember that less is more. Start off with a quality AR, a quality white light, a quality red dot, and a quality sling. Only add accessories if you can articulate a need. Cops love gadgets, resist the urge to bolt a bunch of un-needed wiz-bang junk to your AR.
A few articles that you may find useful:
http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/midlengths-for-leo/icon-midlengths-for-leo.jpg
03designgroup | Advantages of Mid-Length Carbines for Law Enforcement Officers http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/midlengths-for-leo)
http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/carbine-vs-midlength/icon-carbine-vs-midlength.jpg
03designgroup | Carbine vs. Mid-Length Gas System on a 16" Barrel http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/carbine-vs-mid-length-gas-system)
http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/bcm-complete-ar15-upper-and-lower-receivers/icon-bcm-upper-lower.jpg
03designgroup | BCM Complete AR15 Upper and Lower Receivers http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/bcm-complete-ar15-upper-and-lower-receivers)
http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/tactical-slings-for-the-carbine/icon-tactical-slings.jpg
03designgroup | Tactical Slings For The Carbine http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/tactical-slings-for-the-carbine)
Hope this helps
thats why Ilove my dissapator bbl m-16 full sight radius rifle length hand guard or ff rail mine is a BM barrel with carbine gas system never a problem wih gas system never had ejection problems over1500 rounds blue extracter insert 4coil on spring Iclean gun after every use and lube properly before taking it to range there are other manufactures that make dissapator bbls with mid length gas systems and i think even a rifle gas sys for16 in bbls just a thought why get 2in on mid when you can get 5in and have rifle sight radius and rifle hand guards
I got a Colt 6920 about two weeks ago for $1099. I was actually looking at BCM but at that price I didn't feel I could do any better.
I'm a self confessed Colt "fanboy" hater, but at $1,099.00, it's tough to beat. I've even heard of people scoring 6920s for $1050.00. It'll be interesting to see just how far AR prices drop.
SWATcop556
02-06-10, 20:43
thats why Ilove my dissapator bbl m-16 full sight radius rifle length hand guard or ff rail mine is a BM barrel with carbine gas system never a problem wih gas system never had ejection problems over1500 rounds blue extracter insert 4coil on spring Iclean gun after every use and lube properly before taking it to range there are other manufactures that make dissapator bbls with mid length gas systems and i think even a rifle gas sys for16 in bbls just a thought why get 2in on mid when you can get 5in and have rifle sight radius and rifle hand guards
Huh :confused:
What I was able to understand out of that post sounds like piss poor advice. I would suggest more research before offering advice.
Just out of curiosity, I assume you will be attending a qualification course before you deploy the weapon? For what it's worth, I have a Daniel Defense M4 which works very well and is reasonably priced. Worth considering as a duty weapon.
sheriffjrs4
02-06-10, 21:04
Yes I will. I just needed some advise on the rifles and a good place to research to make the best informed decision.
You might want to check with your agency first before buying anything. Most agencies have a list of approved manufacturers, specifications, etc...
Huh :confused:
What I was able to understand out of that post sounds like piss poor advice. I would suggest more research before offering advice.
do yoy understand simple math ?why add 2in when you can add 5in .simple ,I mearly offered some bbl choices for the hand guard but complete carbines are available with this set up HIS choice
do yoy understand simple math ?why add 2in when you can add 5in .simple ,I mearly offered some bbl choices for the hand guard but complete carbines are available with this set up HIS choice
I think it's that no one can understand what you write given you're poor grammar, lack of punctuation, and inability to spell.
I can give you some suggestions as to what you might want to consider. Your General Orders for your agency should provide some guidance as to what is permissable for your cruiser.
If the Agency specifies Hornady TAP 75gr in .223/5.56 then you'll want a 1:7 barrel twist. The agency I was at also specified only Bushmaster, DPMS, or Armalite ARs. I think they got away with those company's lowers and any brand upper that didn't differentiate it from the lower. You could throw a non-logoed LMT upper on for instance.
They also specified EoTech 510 holo sights or Aimpoint M3/ML3 red dots. They specifically said that the red dot sight must be installed by an agency armorer and sighted in. Distance wasn't listed but it was probably 25yd. And you had to have flip up BUIS on the weapon in case of holosight failure.
The officer could only have 20rd magazines for fear of looking militaristic should an AR be depoloyed and media be crowding the crime scene. Thankfully ARs are rarely deployed.
The talk of carbine/middy/rifle length gas systems applies to what kind of sight radius you want, and if the GO's allow, a rail system allowing you a VFG (vert grip), possible bipod mount, light, and even sling attachment point.
Your agency might also specify single, 2pt, or 3pt slings for your weapon. There are tons of manufacturers out there that have excellent slings. I use a Northeast Tactical single point in OD. Comfy.
BCM, LMT, Colt, Noveske, Daniel Defense----they're all excellent manufacturers. I'm partial to LMT, mostly due to the inspection processes they run their rifles through. Get something that will worked when you need it to. You'll never cry but once for buying expensive, however cheap may cost you more dearly. Stay safe and God bless.
SWATcop556
02-06-10, 21:40
To the OP I would first check with your agency and see what is allowed. If they fit your agency's policy then I would strongly suggest a BCM, Colt, DD, or LMT and then find what accessories you need. Jeff (USMC03) has great info in his articles and I would strongly suggest following his advice.
You can PM me if you need any help.
do yoy understand simple math ?why add 2in when you can add 5in .simple ,I mearly offered some bbl choices for the hand guard but complete carbines are available with this set up HIS choice
If you could type and post your responses in proper grammer and sentence structure then maybe I can follow what you're saying. Until then there is no point in trying to argue. You can stick with your 1500 round dissapator. A little of your background might help in validating your advice. Just saying.
Kentucky Cop
02-06-10, 21:47
You might want to check with your agency first before buying anything. Most agencies have a list of approved manufacturers, specifications, etc...
I second this. My agency does NOT authorize BCM, Noveseke, or Daniel Defense. I wish I could have a BCM.....but, I roll with a Smith & Wesson 15T. Not top tier but extremely reliable. Good luck and do tons of reading on the sticky threads before you make a decision. "Use the chart young grasshopper" and welcome to the joint. You will like it here!;)
Ky Cop
I'm a self confessed Colt "fanboy" hater, but at $1,099.00, it's tough to beat. I've even heard of people scoring 6920s for $1050.00. It'll be interesting to see just how far AR prices drop.
Love your user name, I have a LMT as well, it is a sweet carbine too. I've learned not to hate any brand based on just the name (this includes vehicles and other items as well) but rather look at quality/price values. I feel I was very lucky to get a 6920 at that price point. I personally would rank the Colt, BCM and DD as the top three with Noveske and LMT knocking at the door as well. The guys on this site have done us a great service, especially the chart, by providing such good knowledge.
Kentucky Cop
02-06-10, 21:50
I think it's that no one can understand what you write given you're poor grammar, lack of punctuation, and inability to spell.
I love the reason put for edit "forgot to add his shitty spelling". Still giggling like a girl but very true.
Ky Cop
Those folks required to stick with a "good-as" gun might consider buying a GTG gun, then swapping lower receivers. If your armorer/FTU staff is ignorant enough to make such a recommendation, they may also ignorant and/or blind enough to not notice the the difference.
The downside is that having the good-as run fine will only reinforce that the good-as works. At least the gun is likely to bring you home, though.
SWATcop556
02-06-10, 23:20
As much as I agree that being required to carry a shit rifle by policy blows, I think changing uppers is a bad idea. Any good defense attorney can make something out of nothing. In an OIS your weapon will be collected and examined. I would not want IA to get wind that I modified my weapon outside policy. If you violate policy then you have a good chance of your department not backing you even in a good shoot.
It's always best to get permission rather than ask for forgiveness when it comes to policy. Policy can save you or hang you. Try to change policy with sound reasoning and research rather than saying, **** it I'll do what I want.
As much as I agree that being required to carry a shit rifle by policy blows, I think changing uppers is a bad idea. Any good defense attorney can make something out of nothing. In an OIS your weapon will be collected and examined. I would not want IA to get wind that I modified my weapon outside policy. If you violate policy then you have a good chance of your department not backing you even in a good shoot.
It's always best to get permission rather than ask for forgiveness when it comes to policy. Policy can save you or hang you. Try to change policy with sound reasoning and research rather than saying, **** it I'll do what I want.
+1
Many agencies require that a duty weapon be purchased as a complete rifle, and that it not be altered beyond its factory configuration. Agency armorers can modify them a bit, but it must get into the armorer's hands as a unaltered weapon. Personally I'd just purchase a complete rifle at this time just to be on the safe side. You can always build another one later on if you want something different.
Regarding compliance with policy... You might find that by reading applicable policy in great detail, then engaging in only the most minimal and technical compliance with the most precise wording of it, may give some relief.
SWATcop556
02-07-10, 12:50
Regarding compliance with policy... You might find that by reading applicable policy in great detail, then engaging in only the most minimal and technical compliance with the most precise wording of it, may give some relief.
True but we had IA busting on an officer in an OIS fir changing out his mag release and using different night sights than what was issued to him. Yes it can get that bad. An officer has to do what he is comfortable with. I'm just recommending to adhere as close to policy as possible or have written and signed permission that's aproves deviating from that policy. Unfortunately LE work has become so CYA that good officers have been screwed over for simple mistakes. Just my opinion.
RogerinTPA
02-07-10, 15:50
thats why Ilove my dissapator bbl m-16 full sight radius rifle length hand guard or ff rail mine is a BM barrel with carbine gas system never a problem wih gas system never had ejection problems over1500 rounds blue extracter insert 4coil on spring Iclean gun after every use and lube properly before taking it to range there are other manufactures that make dissapator bbls with mid length gas systems and i think even a rifle gas sys for16 in bbls just a thought why get 2in on mid when you can get 5in and have rifle sight radius and rifle hand guards
That has to be the longest run on, almost non-intelligible, bad advise giving sentence, in the history of this forum.
PhotomanM4
02-07-10, 18:17
I would think it's going to be hard to beat a Colt 6920 if you have to choose from "factory" rifles.
William B.
02-07-10, 21:07
do yoy understand simple math ?why add 2in when you can add 5in .simple ,I mearly offered some bbl choices for the hand guard but complete carbines are available with this set up HIS choice
http://www.hookedonphonics.com/1st-grade-spelling-workbook
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-twUCEfzrDk
http://www.hookedonphonics.com/1st-grade-spelling-workbook
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-twUCEfzrDk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wuhl7fuRfA
I started with a DPMS AP4 and after I could afford it I bought a BCM midlegth upper from the reviews online. Whatever you get make sure you save some money for a decent light. In my opinion weaponlights are needed on any patrol rifle.
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