View Full Version : First AR-15, choices choices...
Hey everyone, first post here.
Well I am currently a college student with a minimum wage job that only makes enough for food and bills. However, I have a rebate check from the extra financial aid coming.
It will probably be around $1200.
However, just last week, I enlisted in the US Army for MP. So, I have a nice enlistment bonus plus regular pay. With me most probably going to be living in an apartment off base (or on, still kind of confused how housing works) eating military meals, and no girlfriend or wife at the moment. I will have alot of extra pocket change.
So, what should I do? Pick up an AR-15 now and trick it out with the money from the military? Or wait to get the high-end FTW rifle?
I've basically come to a few choices.
Buy now:
S&W M&P-15T
Colt LE6920
Daniel Defense DD-XV Carbine (Currently in the lead)
BCM M4
Wait for Mil pay:
KAC SR-15 E3
HK MR556
LWRC M6A2
FNH SCAR 16S (I know not an AR-15, but it's better than the cockpunch the ACR was...)
I think thats all, but I will update if I think of any others.
Now, onto accessories I plan to put an EOTech 553 or 555 infront of an Eotech 3x magnifier. Always enjoyed the EOTech reticule over Aimpoints, but I will admit, I have not shot with an ACOG.
As for everything else, a surefire or compareable light and the standard assortment of Magpul accessories.
I have done alot of research into this, I just have hit a roadblock in my thought process and cannot get past it.
Feel free to question me and provide suggestions. I will answer all questions to the best of my ability.
Thank you guys for taking the time to help a college kid out.
-Sarge
platypusREX
02-07-10, 02:15
Get the 6920. It should be on the other list with the Bushie, Stag and such. It is not in the KAC, LWRC price league.
Since you are single, you might end up living in the barracks on base which is where most of the single junior ranking soldiers live. If that's the case, your weapons will have to be kept locked up in the armory on base. And keep in mind that if your first duty station is somewhere like Germany, you most likely won't be able to take personally owned weapons. I would wait until I got to my first duty station to decide.
justin_247
02-07-10, 03:06
Hey everyone, first post here.
Well I am currently a college student with a minimum wage job that only makes enough for food and bills. However, I have a rebate check from the extra financial aid coming.
It will probably be around $1200.
However, just last week, I enlisted in the US Army for MP. So, I have a nice enlistment bonus plus regular pay. With me most probably going to be living in an apartment off base (or on, still kind of confused how housing works) eating military meals, and no girlfriend or wife at the moment. I will have alot of extra pocket change.
So, what should I do? Pick up an AR-15 now and trick it out with the money from the military? Or wait to get the high-end FTW rifle?
I've basically come to a few choices.
Buy now:
S&W M&P-15T
Bushmaster M4 Style
Stag Arms Model 2
Rock River Arms CAR A4
Wait for Mil pay:
KAC SR-15 E3
HK MR556
LWRC M6A2
Colt LE6920
FNH SCAR 16S (I know not an AR-15, but it's better than the cockpunch the ACR was...)
I think thats all, but I will update if I think of any others.
Now, onto accessories I plan to put an EOTech 553 or 555 infront of an Eotech 3x magnifier. Always enjoyed the EOTech reticule over Aimpoints, but I will admit, I have not shot with an ACOG.
As for everything else, a surefire or compareable light and the standard assortment of Magpul accessories.
I have done alot of research into this, I just have hit a roadblock in my thought process and cannot get past it.
Feel free to question me and provide suggestions. I will answer all questions to the best of my ability.
Thank you guys for taking the time to help a college kid out.
-Sarge
You can get a Colt 6920 for about $1100 right now, and a BCM M4 or Daniel Defense XV for about $950-$1050. Take the Bushmaster, Stag, and RRA off your list and stick to one of these instead.
Have you considered the EOTech XPS at all? Lots of people think it's a better design than the ones you're considering.
I haven't heard as many good things about the EOTech magnifier as I have heard about the Aimpoint magnifier, so I encourage you to try both before purchasing either one. I personally prefer the Aimpoint.
Since you are single, you might end up living in the barracks on base which is where most of the single junior ranking soldiers live. If that's the case, your weapons will have to be kept locked up in the armory on base. And keep in mind that if your first duty station is somewhere like Germany, you most likely won't be able to take personally owned weapons. I would wait until I got to my first duty station to decide.
+1
Or else you'll end up with it in long term storage, like mine.
The reason why the Colt is on the expensive side is that around here they go for $1400.
Justin:
As to the EOTech XPS, no I have not handled one yet. I would love to if given the chance.
I have looked for a BCM M4, but cannot seem to find where it is listed. Got a link to it?
As to the DD XV. No I havn't looked at it, but it is VERY tempting. Is there any reports to how it is?
Thanks, will update the original list.
Skip the magnifier and get to a class. In fact, I'd skip the optic altogether and get to a class.
Not sure what area of the country you're currently in, but Randy Cain teaches what I believe to be one of the top beginner's carbine classes you can find.
I'd take a class with irons before I put anything else on the gun.
I have been working on this (http://docs.google.com/View?id=drnhb8z_137gvv78ggg) as an introduction for new AR owners.
On your original question, I would probably piece together a BCM. It sounds like you are unwilling to order the 6920 online and have a local dealer handle the transfer, and you're more likely to find a reasonably priced complete lower at the local gunshow or at a local shop. and the make and specs of the lower are less critical than the upper parts.
kaltesherz
02-07-10, 10:57
Why don't you wait until you finish AIT and go to your first duty station? By then you'll have practical training on M4s. Or maybe even a M16A4 DMR or M14 EBR. Also since you're single and will have to live in the barracks you'll have to keep your personally owned weapons in the armory, the LAST place I'd ever want any of my weapons to be. It'll be banged around to no end and finger****ed more than a 15 year old cheerleader.
Be patient. You'll have to be with everything else in the Army.
Skip the magnifier and get to a class. In fact, I'd skip the optic altogether and get to a class.
Not sure what area of the country you're currently in, but Randy Cain teaches what I believe to be one of the top beginner's carbine classes you can find.
I'd take a class with irons before I put anything else on the gun.
I have been working on this (http://docs.google.com/View?id=drnhb8z_137gvv78ggg) as an introduction for new AR owners.
On your original question, I would probably piece together a BCM. It sounds like you are unwilling to order the 6920 online and have a local dealer handle the transfer, and you're more likely to find a reasonably priced complete lower at the local gunshow or at a local shop. and the make and specs of the lower are less critical than the upper parts.
First off, thanks alot for the link. It was an awesome read.
I live in Michigan, saw his class dates and will probably take one of Randy's carbine classes before I leave for BCT/AIT.
As to the optics, yes I do plan to become comfortable with the irons before I pick up an optic, I was merely giving an idea to what kind of optics I am looking into.
First and foremost, I will be putting a light on the gun. I want to be as comfortable as I can with the light placement.
It's not that I am unwilling to order a 6920 online, it's the fact that I seem to be unable to find one for under $1200. I have been searching gunbroker for a couple weeks now, looking for one. I would actually prefer an online order so that it hasn't been fingered for god knows how long.
If I choose to buy the rifle before I leave, it will be staying with my father. He is a US Army vet from Desert Shield/Storm, so I trust him to care for the rifle.
Right now I am looking at the Daniel Defense XV, or a Colt 6920 if I can find one for my price point.
shittercrewchief
02-08-10, 18:17
I was in a similar situation a few years ago.
If you can find a good rifle for the right price before you leave get. Leave it at home and in a few years when they let you move out in town or a buddy will store for you bring it out.
But don't expect to live of base with a housing allowance if your single and under E-5.
GermanSynergy
02-08-10, 18:47
As stated by others in this tread, I'd wait until you finish OSUT and get to your first duty assignment before purchasing anything. As an MP you will probably deploy soon after arriving at your first duty assignment, giving you even more coin to spend on the rifle you want (assuming you're not in Korea or Germany).
Good luck to you.
Sorry guys for the late reply, actually forgot about this thread after I got done with two weeks of double shifts.
Currently I've decided to wait until after OSUT before I purchase my rifle. I'm looking at BCM and Daniel Defense.
A custom build BCM in either Carbine or Midlength gas systems
DDM4
DDM4v2
DDM4v3
Midlength rifles such as the DDM4v3 have really started to grow on me.
Also, my father has come to be with an offer for an unknown make A2 Rifle. It has a Auto BCG, the upper seems to be of different make than the lower due to the color difference. The upper is a black where the lower is grey. I'd be willing to post pics to help identify the make of this rifle. Just tell me what you want pictures of.
He wants only $400 for it, so I'll probably pick it up and turn it into an SPR type rifle by swapping the upper for a LaRue Stealth 20" and the stock for a magpul PRS stock.
Just tell me what you need pictures of and I'll get them on here tomorrow.
Right now, I'm planning on getting a DDM4v3, any news on these rifles? I know they are quality, I am just wondering what everyones feeling/experience with them is.
Thanks a ton everyone, I really appreciate it.
-Sarge
Jake Bauer
04-12-10, 00:52
I'm in college too and I just bought a DDXV.
For the price, there's no reason to get anything else. Especially if you hunt for the good deals like I did.
As another who lacks the ability to decide where the .mil decides I go, it's worth waiting until you know your permanent station. This has caused so many headaches for me, it makes my marriage simple by comparison.
6920 or DD. If you can get to $1,400. The DD 12.0 FSB is a whole lotta gun for the dollar.
As another who lacks the ability to decide where the .mil decides I go, it's worth waiting until you know your permanent station. This has caused so many headaches for me, it makes my marriage simple by comparison.
God Bless your young heart, but nothing makes Marriage seem simple. Keep your focus on Mama and stay safe.
Ok, so I figured out what the 20" rifle's lower is. It is EA Co.
Any history on this company? I can't find much of anything with a google search.
The upper appears to be of a different make, M16 Carrier, properly staked gas key, looks well loved/worn. Hope to shoot it this weekend.
Why don't you wait until you finish AIT and go to your first duty station? By then you'll have practical training on M4s. Or maybe even a M16A4 DMR or M14 EBR. Also since you're single and will have to live in the barracks you'll have to keep your personally owned weapons in the armory, the LAST place I'd ever want any of my weapons to be. It'll be banged around to no end and finger****ed more than a 15 year old cheerleader.
Be patient. You'll have to be with everything else in the Army.
I second that. Or even if you get to live off base, you could end up in a state where your weapon would be illegal. My oldest ended up stationed in NJ, so his gun choices are very limited.
I really like my Daniel Defense M4v3. Once I learned about the Midlength Gas System I couldnt resist.
And, PM sent
One I don't see on your list is LMT, or LMT, or even better(IMO) Noveske. I put together a RRA lower and basic Noveske upper for under $1200. Then again it took me 3 rifles to find what was right for me.
Magic_Salad0892
04-13-10, 01:05
Run the KAC or LWRCi.
If you don't want to wait.
Daniel Defence. Amazing budget AR.
LMT rifles just don't interest me oddly.
As for LWRC and KAC, I've been thinking of getting one of KAC's new SR-15s I just have been trying to decide if the extra $$ it worth it.
Jake Bauer
04-13-10, 02:33
LMT rifles just don't interest me oddly.
As for LWRC and KAC, I've been thinking of getting one of KAC's new SR-15s I just have been trying to decide if the extra $$ it worth it.
Yea, LMT's are good stuff.. but for the price (comparing say a Patrol Model to a DDXV), I'd like the LMT to have a CHF barrel.
justin_247
04-13-10, 12:51
LMT rifles just don't interest me oddly.
As for LWRC and KAC, I've been thinking of getting one of KAC's new SR-15s I just have been trying to decide if the extra $$ it worth it.
Have you handled an SR-15, yet? It's an exceptional rifle, but, given the choice, I'd just get a DDXV, get used to the weapon, take a few classes and try out other people's setups, and then modify it to exactly the way you want it.
If the info is of any use to you, I have a S&W M&P with the VTAC upper and it is both very light and extremely accurate.
No love for Noveske on wait list??
Sorry, Noveske doesn't offer me anything that I can't get for cheaper ala DD. MAYBE the M249 barrel, but that alone isn't worth 1k for an upper.
Noveske just doesn't interest me, if I'm paying more, I want something in return.
Aren't Noveske's feed ramps more extreme than anyone else's? I think they are more than a standard M4 ramp.
Personally? I'd put your TSP allocation at 10% and be able to afford whatever in hell you'd like in 20 years. Allocate 25% C 50% S and 25% I.
You'll be filthy rich when it's time to retire.
And still be able to afford a nice carbine when you know where you're going to be stationed....
120mm has very, very very good advice (except for the TSP part).
Set aside 10-15% of your money, put it out of reach (3yr CD's are a great place, thrift savings is a good retirement tool, but IMO avoiding debt for a fiscally responsible individual is a better choice)
Get yourself completely out of debt, have a solid savings account ($5-10k depending on family size), then spend what's left on shiny toys. If you do this, suddenly ANY AR begins to look affordable.
As to feed ramps being more extreme - for the most part, a semi carbine will rarely need the feed ramps at all, so don't bother.
Have you handled an SR-15, yet? It's an exceptional rifle, but, given the choice, I'd just get a DDXV, get used to the weapon, take a few classes and try out other people's setups, and then modify it to exactly the way you want it.
I havn't had the chance to fondle an SR-15 yet, the gun stores around my area don't carry anything KAC, the highest quality rifle I've seen is a single Colt LE6920. Given the chance? I would love to handle and perhaps fire one, but failing that I must take others' word for it.
Right now, I think I'm going to go for the DDM4 or DDM4v3. It really is down to what I plan to put on it in the future. I'm thinking of an AFG and ACS from Magpul (have handled an LMT SOPMOD stock at a state pistol shoot, love the angled cheek rest). Right now though, I am leaning VERY heavily to the DDM4v3.
As for a light, probably a Surefire x300 or a Scout light.
As for optics I've got it to two options I'm debating:
Trijicon ACOG TA-31RCO in Larue mount + Aimpoint Micro T-1/H-1 in Daniel Defense offset mount.
or
Aimpoint M4s in Larue mount + Aimpoint 3x magnifier in Larue pivot mount.
Basically I like the idea of an ACOG but in close I'd just need to turn the rifle slightly and have a red dot to use. Though the M4s could be just as easily used when backed up with the 3x mag.
Why the Larue mounts? Looking at the M4s it has a large knob that it uses to bolt to the rail. Being right handed, I REALLY don't want to trip and have my chest land on that. Larue is more flush, and will hurt less (would still probably hurt to take a spill ontop of the rifle).
I live out in the country, so extended distances isn't unforseeable. Roughly 100-300 yards would be the max distance I'd take the rifle out to and still have a decent measure of potential accuracy (many many variables, I know) Past that range, I just picked up an Remington 700 SPS Tactical, so that is my extended range rifle for the time being.
I put 300yards as my max range for the rifle because of my current ability with an AR (only been shooting them about 2-3 years now, just got past using irons and am onto a cheap reddot on my fathers DPMS) and the cartridge it fires. I know the .223/5.56 can reach out further, but any further than ~300yards and I start to question the lethality (will probably change after I get through Basic)
So, with all that said, what would you guys recommend as a optic setup? Sorry for all the questions, I just really want to hear what informed people with experience in these products would recommend given the choice and why.
Thanks again everyone, DDM4v3 here I come...after training.
-Sarge
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