View Full Version : Pistol Mag Pouch ???'s for a handgun class
I am looking at taking a pistol class this season. I want to get my equipment set up well in advance so I'm not struggling at the last minute.
I know I need a good holster for how I plan on using it, but what about the mag pouch's? I was think of doing 2 double mag pouch's...or would one double and a single be better?
For those of you who have done some extensive training, please chime in and lend some suggestions....
Thanks in advance!
Shane
What class and for what purpose? LE,Mil or self defense? What weapon? The class should give you a minimum number of mags to have available on your person. My issued weapon is a single stack 45. At a recent Vickers pistol class, I carried 3 spares in an Eagle triple FB pouch on my belt and I had no issues. In EAG and TRICON classes I've carried 4 extras on my PC and chest rig that are set up identically and that has worked well for me. Coworkers and classmates with double-stack mags mostly carried 2 or 3 extra and had no issues.
The best way, IMHO is to train with what you'll be using, how you'll be using it. This is especially true if this is your first formal training.
On a side note, as an LE firearms instructor, it boggles my mind when I have guys/gals show up at the range and put on their "range belt" which is nothing like what they carry every day. Anyone else ever seen that or is it just me?
Figure out what course you're going to take and see what the instructor requires. I also tend to keep all 20 or so of my mags loaded and in my dump pouch so I can backfill my pouches as necessary or am able. Best of luck!
First learn to shoot well, then learn to shoot fast. Stay safe.
I run in classes what I carry everyday, a single pouch.
but I will then add on one or two doubles a little further back on the belt line to keep full mags to feed that main pouch from.
I run a single stack so I do a lot more mag changes than double stack guys, and I dont want distracted loading mags or fishing in pockets.
Bladetech makes a double pouch with the tek-lock that is real easy to snap on/off for classes. I also run them behind my main pouch when shooting gun games. If I shoot USPSA its not uncommon to need 5 mags for one stage.
I am non LE/Mil shooter. I carry daily, but I wouldn't take combative style pistol class with my daily setup. It is a IWB holster and no extra mag... I was actually thinking about running a Glock 22 with weapons mounted light in a bladetech holster and 1 double mag pouch.
I shoot well, and I shoot accurately, and the speed is there to compliment it.
Do you teach classes to civy's that are constantly moving clothing away to make the draw everytime since that is how they carry it, or is that how you suggest doing it?
My goal is to become more profecient with a pistol and continue to practice with it, since it is my primary line of defence. My goal is to take a carbine class after that.
The setup I was thinking about running is similar to a gentleman on this board that had posted up some pics a while back:
5.11 VTAC LBE molle belt
Bladetech holster (that accepts a TLR-1)
Bladetech double mag pouch (and maybe 2 of them or and extra single)
Then for the Carbine classes add two bladetech AR Mag pouch's
Thoughts? Thanks!
Shane
my experiance, from a ccw perspective, is to go to class how you carry. If your not carrying a spare mag you may want to rethink that, and if you cant reholster one handed in your setup IWB you may want to invest in better gear.
I have been in quite a few pistol classes and by and large the guys who take this seriously come to class how they carry.
you should discuss this with the instructor.
I guess I'm lost here...every video I see on pistol class traing, I have never seen anyone use and IWB holster for a class purposes...maybe I'm looking at the wrong videos...I can reholster one handed now, it takes the other hand to move the garmet out of the way, like a shirt hanging over the gun. Do you guys not carry that way, or do you always have to wear a jacket or an over garmet? I can't see dressing like that personally...
your help is appreciated....
90% of the time I carry OWB. Normally I am concealed with a jacket, hoodie, open front short sleeved shirts in the summer, ect. Loose tees will conceal also as well as some other ways so long as the shirt is longer than the holster, I just dont prefer it.
I dont know from what videos, but from my personal experiance I see guys using IWB in classes. You should just need to be able to reholster one handed. Using the othe hand at all is generally discouraged, but specifically so you dont need to open a collapsing holster with it as it is likely you will sweep that hand.
comp-tac and crossbreed make great IWB holsters that stay open.
Shawn is giving you good advice about training with what and how you carry. I'll second what has already been said about carrying at least one spare mag as well. Many malfunctions are magazine related not to mention when you need it, you REALLY need it.
I carry daily IWB with a Milt Sparks Versamax II. Depending on what I am wearing, weather, etc, but I mostly wear my shirts untucked. I have a very untacticool looking fleece vest for occasions when weather or my clothes require an outer garment
When I qualify people who wear plain clothes, they qualify in plain clothes. They are required to have cover garments when they carry, thus most have cover garments when they qualify. There are a few who cheat themselves, but most don't.
My experience in classes mirrors Shawn's. In the last Vickers course I was in approximately half, maybe a little less, wore concealment gear. These were mostly non-LE/mil folks. About half of them wore some form of cover garment.
Okay, so I'm learning here, which is what I'm trying to do, so thanks for sticking with me!
I like the crossbreed style holster. But do you qualify using your other hand to pull your shirt back up to reholster a no-no?
Now, in a carbine class that utilizes the pistol and transitioning from the primary to the secondary system, do you think of it as a mistake to use a different setup for that? The outside the belt low riding duty style holster coming to mind with AR mags on the opposite hip?
Thanks again...
believeraz
02-08-10, 02:38
My advice is just advice. Take it for what you paid for it. I'm an unapologetic opinionated bastard, but it's with your best intentions at heart.
1) Please be honest with yourself. Does it really matter what other shooters are doing in a class? Their experience and habits (both good and bad) are theirs, not yours. Focus on what is relevant to your human experience. You carry daily IWB. Don't cheat yourself by doing a class with something different. You will lose hundreds of drawstrokes and accompanying muscle memory that would benefit your survivability if you ever had to go to guns in real life. You would also subconciously program yourself to draw from a different place than your daily carry holster. That causes hesitation, and hesitation loses gunfights.
2) Lots of people go to training classes and use gear other than they carry. I'll give you the top two reasons it's done, from my informal polling at classes and lots of analysis of fellow shooters:
a) Cool factor. Multicam, drop leg coolness is contagious. I'm a gear whore at heart, and have the requisite Pelican and Gorilla boxes in the garage as proof. Lots of people want cool gear, and it's a hobby for many folks. I'll never have a beef with a hobbyist who accepts and understands what they do as such. IF you're looking to gain a sharper edge at surviving a gunfight, it's not a hardware game, it's a software game.
b) Cheating. People don't want to be slower or fumblier than the next guy. This is why you see people who carry concealed wearing their concealment holster without a cover garment at the range. It's why you see them not engaging their retention device when they train, because it slows them down. They're cheating, but they're cheating themselves, and building bad habits that can get them hurt.
3) Spare mags. Ok, you don't carry one. My recommendation: change your habit. You'll need them at the course, you bet. You really should consider carrying a spare mag. The number one cause of malfunctions in the M4 weapons system is the magazine. I'm sure it's not that far different with pistols. I can talk all day long about two is one, one is none, but it's cliche and I hate that saying. I'd instead consider that there was an off-duty cop who engaged an active shooter in a mall a couple years ago, and ran dry (no spare mag) before he could put the guy down, and had to wait for responding officers to show up and take care of business. I would not have wanted to be that guy, and I doubt you would either.
I personally like single mag carriers, b/c I can carry one spare (norm when CONUS/not working) but can add more as needed. I like singles because they contour and conceal better than most double mag carriers.
4) Reholstering: if it takes two hands, so be it. Try this with a safe, empty and verified pistol. With your pistol hand, extend your pinkie and hook your shirt tail, pulling it up over your holster. This lets you holster one-handed (at least it does for me).
5) Once again, don't cheat yourself. Be intellectually honest with your carry habits, because if you aren't training as you fight, you're cheating yourself. If you're looking at adding a rifle to the mix, add a rifle. If you pick up a rifle to defend home and hearth, chances are you're wearing your IWB pistol, right? Your transition should be what it will be, not what's cooler or easier. Take your carry perspective as a layered approach. You start with your pistol and spare mag. You can add spare mags as you see fit, or pick up rifle. If you pick up rifle, you should consider spare mags for that as well. Would you add a Tech-lock M4 mag pouch to your belt? Chest rig? Or would you have some sort of Maxpedition or active shooter type bag with your rifle? Train with what you reallistically plan to employ.
6) If an instructor won't let me shoot as I normally carry in their class, I won't train with them. What benefit would I retain from training myself contrary to how I roll?
7) I once attended a pistol class with a friend. There were lots of people there running 6004s and OWB holsters with no cover garments. None of them carried like that every day. My friend and I got sideways looks from people because we were the idiots who were shooting IWB from concealment on every single drill. I contend that we got more usable material from the course. I also contend that a number of those people have since sought or intend to seek training from my friend now. :D
Shawn Dodson
02-08-10, 06:40
I put loose ammo in a fanny pack so I have it handy to load my magazines. I don't wear the fanny pack as a holster, just as an ammo carrier so I can stay ahead of the range tempo.
I CCW, therefore I use a single magazine carrier. I usually have one or two magazines in the fanny pack, so I always have mags ready to go for the next drill, and so I can pay attention to the instructor, instead of trying to split my attention between loading magazines and listening to the instructor.
I wear it in addition to my holster and magazine carrier. It doesn't replace any of my normal carry gear. During drills I always use the magazine carrier just like I would when I CCW.
Cheers.
Business_Casual
02-08-10, 09:09
Another good reason to have two or more spare magazines in holders/pouches on your body is that the rest of us at the class paid the same tuition and would appreciate it if you don't slow down the class hunting for spare rounds or reloading the same magazine.
There is a reason the instructors put out class gear requirement lists.
M_P
Thanks for you input, it has really helped me get a grip on the taining side of things. I was just under the impression in taking a pistol class that it would be better to do it another way. I surely see value in training the way you carry.
For those of you that carry IWB daily, when you have taken a carbine class did you continue to carry that way? My thought was that if I took a carbine class I would be all geared up like most people seem to get. That is a completely offensive approach, and thus I figured running all my gear on a dedicated belt with a out side the waist band holster would be best. That was the initial reason for my post.
Does anyone train differently when taking a dedicated pistol class versus taking a carbine class that trasitions to the secondary weapon system? Or do you feel that in and of itself is cheating yourself like what has been mentioned...
Oh, and I have around 12 Glock 22 mags at this point, do you feel if I keep them all loaded I won't slow down a class? I want to get as much out of it as possible myself without being a distraction to the group...
Thanks again, you guys are being super helpful in my tactics and training approach.
Shane
Shawn Dodson
02-08-10, 10:29
I wouldn't take all 12 magazines to class. I have a few magazines for training use only - they get beat to hell during training (slammed into the mag well, jettisoned & crash onto the ground, get dirty, get stepped on, etc.).
If it was me in your shoes, I'd designate 4-5 magazines as "training use only," and mark them so they don't get mixed up with the magazines I'd want to keep in pristine condition for battle carry. I usually use 10 round magazines for this purpose, as they provide more opportunity for manipulations training.
You'll probably be instructed to randomly load a dummy cartridge in every magazine you use to provide the opportunity to exercise your tap, roll & rack skills to clear stoppages.
I CCW and I don't have any OWB holsters. An OWB holster is just an unnecessary expense for my situation.
For carbine I use a single magazine carrier - ITW Fast Mag (http://www.itwmilitaryproducts.com/fast_mags.html).
I suggest you simply equip yourself to train the way YOU fight.
Business_Casual
02-08-10, 10:37
For those of you that carry IWB daily, when you have taken a carbine class did you continue to carry that way? My thought was that if I took a carbine class I would be all geared up like most people seem to get. That is a completely offensive approach, and thus I figured running all my gear on a dedicated belt with a out side the waist band holster would be best. That was the initial reason for my post.
Unless you are wearing a uniform daily, the chances of you using a carbine in real life are very slim. OK, maybe hunting or to dispatch a wounded animal, but seriously there are very few instances, each of which is extremely rare, where you would be in an environment that required/allowed/permitted you to carry a carbine openly.
One of those situations is a training class.
In other words, it really doesn't matter how you gear up for a carbine class unless you are in an occupation that requires you to use/carry/deploy them in a certain way.
For me, I run a dedicated belt with a rifle magazine pouch on it and if absolutely necessary, a chest rig. I mount a double pistol magazine carrier and a belt holster on it as well. That's because I don't ever expect to actually deploy a carbine in real life.
M_P
Gutshot John
02-08-10, 11:00
believeraz gave you some really good advice. I would restate some of his highlights but you really should just go back and give it a solid re-read.
Shawn~
I like your idea of having a few didicated mags for training, and I like the idea of using 10 round mags for that. I can see how it would force you to reload more often, and in training, the more manipulation possible, the better prepared you will become.
M_P
Your carbine class belt set up is what I thought about running for a carbine class as well...no real world practical use for it other than the carbine class itself.
For me the Pistol training has more practical purpose as the handgun is my main line of defense. The carbine class would just be to help me get faster and better at using a carbine, but mainly for self enjoyment as it hard to tote around a carbine all the time...lol
thanks agian....
Failure2Stop
02-08-10, 11:06
There is some excellent advice in this thread, so if I duplicate anyone else's input, consider it an agreeable compliment. My post here is directed at the opening post and the OPs comments, and are voiced as things I recommend and practice.
1- Always have an extra magazine, preferably two extra mags. It isn't a matter of "needing 30 rounds", but rather a matter of "needing another magazine". Ruminate on this and it will generally become clear why it makes so much sense.
2- Kydex is where "it" is at when it comes to most pistol stuff. This is a hard thing for many of us to accept, but especially with mag pouches, nothing else comes close. This does not mean that all mag pouches should be kydex, but at least your immediate access pouch should be. I generally use 2 kydex mag pouches and stuff extra mags into pockets. I always back-fill my empty mag pouch from the second mag pouch, not my pocket. Why? I don't carry mags in my pockets on a daily basis, and I want to ingrain the habit of backfilling from where a mag will be on the day of the race. Under stress people have a funny habit of doing exactly what they train to do, and it could easily lead a shooter to make a serious error if trained incorrectly.
3- Be prepared to bring at least 3 mags to the line in training. I have been to a few training sessions where we were bringing 6 mags with us (1911s). The more mags the students can bring to the line the more training can be done in a smooth sequential process, which is only capped be the prevention of boredom for the following relay. I generally show up with with 5 training mags and 1 spare in case something happens to one of them.
4- Dress like you expect to employ the platform. Seeing a banker in a Crye armor chassis or a Ranger in nothing but a Tshirt equally disappoint me. If your concealment garment makes your draw slower than my girlfriend shoe-shopping, you need to work on technique or alter you equipment. Classes, by definition are learning experiences: learn how to interface with your equipment or how to choose more applicable equipment. If you leave a class having changed nothing, there is a problem.
5- When in doubt, ask the instructor. Preferably well in advance of the class.
6- Make sure you are comfortable with re-holstering and ensure that your holster area is free of trigger-snags. Failing to do so will eventually result in a self-inicted GSW, which is NOT cool.
GutShot_John~
I have reread his post several times...it all makes perfect sense...I guess I just need my glock and crossbreed, and a single mag carrier and I'm in business...I have all but the mag puch that I want. I want to get a blade-tech single teklok mag pouch for the setup....
Failure2stop~
Thanks for the input...now I just plan on doing the "run whatcha' brung" set up I use daily. I can draw fairly well, but can always use a class to help improve me...hopefully by leaps and bounds...
Heres another question for you guys who have been helping me...I carry a Glock 23 daily, but I had figured I would take a class with my Glock 22...should I stay with my 23 for training as well and just take the 22 for a back up?
Thanks again for hanging with me and all my "new to real training" questions...
as an adjunct to the idea of dedicated training mags I would like to add I also have a few dedicated carry mags.
mags wear by use.
I have a set of 3 mags that I bought, ran enough to know they are in perfect working order, and only use for carry.
I have another ~10 mags for training/gun games. If one fails I mark it with failure type on the body, and then can rebuild it later.
your getting some great feedback in this thread.
Shawn~
Great advice...and I really like the idea of the 10 rounders for training...now I just need to find some to purchase...
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