Sources of III armor for civilians [Archive]

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YVK

02-08-10, 15:24

I have been thinking of body armor for a long time. The main, and probably only reason, is personal safety during training and on public ranges, where muzzle discipline is questionable. Since I attend carbine classes where I see people use "green tip" or its variants, primarily 62 gr PRVI loads, I figured that the easiest all-encompassing solution would be proven quality standalone level III plates.

Thanks to DocGKR post here https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=32839 the information "what to get" is clear. PPI 10x12” triple-curve Level III/IV ICW IIIa model 2518 (2518), PPI 10.5x13.5” triple-curve size large model 10008L “ESAPI Surrogate” (10008), AMI TAC3S plates, or MSA/Paraclete (MSA) DHP3-1012 (cat #10098941) triple curve should work for intended purposes. The problem is "where". PPI or AMI don't list civilian sales on their websites. MSA is sold by Grey Group, except I don't see above mentioned MSA plates on Grey Groups or MSA websites.

I wonder if anybody has suggestions to either where to look for above armor or what other options are out there.

.

DocGKR

02-08-10, 18:18

You may have some confusion--level IIIa armor is generally soft concealable panels to stop pistol ammunition. Level III armor is generally hard plates to stop rifle projectiles.

There are quite a few qualified vendors that sell such products--often you have to CALL the vendor rather than rely strictly on internet advertising.

YVK

02-08-10, 19:13

Thank you for advice, and I stand corrected on level III vs. IIIa. It actually wasn't making sense to me when I typed it, as I had just read your post on soft IIIa armor, but as it often happens in life, there was no time to pause and think.

DocGKR

02-08-10, 19:43

Feel free to use the "Edit" feature...

Gewehr3

02-09-10, 01:08

You may want to try bulletproofme.com or Tacticalreponsegear.com

NavyDavy55

02-09-10, 07:50

I think I'd just find a new range to shoot at where muzzle discipline is NOT questionable. :)

YVK

02-09-10, 18:25

CC4me: it is a rhetorical option. I have not seen blatant violations, but sometimes stuff happens that makes me wonder. Besides, I can't possibly see everything around. There are only two indoor ranges that are available to me and both allow AR-15, SMGs and rent them out, unfortunately, to a complete newbs with very little instruction given by range staff. This is a topic for separate discussion, however.

Gewehr: thanks for suggestion. TRG has no armor in stock. Bulletproofme doesn't list the manufacturers, so no-go for me. I think DocGKR's suggestion is probably the best one, and I'll call around. Of interest, I tried to email DefenseTech last night and it came back undeliverable. Hope that they are in business, as their updated plate appears to be a good option too.

billclodude

02-10-10, 07:19

I can say that Greygroup training will sell to civilians, as will PPI (I have some of their all-Twaron 3-a armor).

You can also buy it from Gearzoneproducts.com

rob_s

02-10-10, 07:32

RyanS

02-10-10, 09:44

I went through similar things, and I think that a combination of concealable soft armor and the option to up-armor with plates is the best solution.

Make Holes, Prevent Holes, Patch Holes (http://docs.google.com/View?id=drnhb8z_88c26jvfc7)

I strongly recommend Grey Group for your armor needs as they will listen to what you want to do, and then offer advice and solutions that fit your needs and budget.

Rob,

I've been looking for a carrier in which I could incorporate my soft armor with plates, and some gear, rather than have a seperate carrier for my soft armor, a seperate carrier for plates, and a then a chest rig. If this vest would have had MOLLE attach points, it would have been the one.

I might have missed it, but how is the soft armor retained and positioned within the vest?

rob_s

02-10-10, 09:57

Rob,

I've been looking for a carrier in which I could incorporate my soft armor with plates, and some gear, rather than have a seperate carrier for my soft armor, a seperate carrier for plates, and a then a chest rig. If this vest would have had MOLLE attach points, it would have been the one.

I might have missed it, but how is the soft armor retained and positioned within the vest?

There is a MOLLE version (http://stores.greygrouptraining.com/-strse-3058/LowProfileAssaultCarrier/Detail.bok) ;)

The soft armor is simply inserted through a velcro opening in the back and is retained by the bottom edge of the carrier. In my case the soft armor fits rather well, although I could see an argument for wanting to hold it as high as possible, and wouldn't mind if they included a suspension system inside provided that it was still lightweight and low-profile.

RyanS

02-10-10, 10:04

There is a MOLLE version (http://stores.greygrouptraining.com/-strse-3058/LowProfileAssaultCarrier/Detail.bok) ;)

The soft armor is simply inserted through a velcro opening in the back and is retained by the bottom edge of the carrier. In my case the soft armor fits rather well, although I could see an argument for wanting to hold it as high as possible, and wouldn't mind if they included a suspension system inside provided that it was still lightweight and low-profile.

I was looking at that vest. What gave me pause was that product description said it would accept "Concealment Cut Armor from MSA Paraclete". But for the MOLLE, is it the same vest?

Also, what plates did you end up getting? I've got IIIA soft armor and was wondering if there would be any advantage to picking up a set of Level 4 plates or stick with Level 3/4 plates. About the only place I can find any is at Practical Tactical, LLC.

Bulldog1967

02-10-10, 10:17

Tagged

rob_s

02-10-10, 10:31

I was looking at that vest. What gave me pause was that product description said it would accept "Concealment Cut Armor from MSA Paraclete". But for the MOLLE, is it the same vest?
Both the MOLLE and the low-profile I have take "concealment cuts" The one issue there is that there is not a standard size and all makers vary a little. Grey Group can help you figure out if your existing armor will work.

Also, what plates did you end up getting? I've got IIIA soft armor and was wondering if there would be any advantage to picking up a set of Level 4 plates or stick with Level 3/4 plates. About the only place I can find any is at Practical Tactical, LLC.

I haven't bought, but I know what I want.
ECLiPSE ECL-0036 (http://www.atstacticalgear.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=ST-4615) trying to justify the cost at $1300 for the set and/or free up some funds. If I don't go that route, I'll be getting the bulletproofme.com IIIA polyethylene plates (http://bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Rifle_Protection.shtml#Ultra-light) which will NOT stop SS109 but are $810 for the set. Given my purposes I think the SS109 is a non-issue.

RyanS

02-10-10, 15:37

Rob,

What do you think of the Stand-Alone Ceramic Rifle Plates for $540 a pair or Ceramic SAPI Plates for $460 a pair?

rob_s

02-10-10, 15:59

Rob,

What do you think of the... ...Ceramic SAPI Plates for $460 a pair?

I am considering these as well.

these would be 3 lbs more overall, but are claimed to stop SS109

Medium

For size Medium Interceptor OTV / IBAS

9.5" by 12.5" ~24 by 32 cm.

~5.0 lbs.
2.3 kg.

$ 230
each

The BAE Eclipse are 3.6 lbs/ea in the medium swimmer's cut (http://www.baesystems.com/BAEProd/groups/public/documents/bae_publication/bae_pdf_mps_indv_solar_plates.pdf) & being as skinny as I am I like this option best. Just not the price...

I've also had the BAE plate in my carrier so I know for sure it fits, and they are very thin.

bkb0000

03-12-10, 06:25

Tagged

tagged:cool:

click on "thread tools" and select "subscribe to this thread"

same result, less noise.