View Full Version : Wanting some Kahr knowledge.
Hello all. I am currently carrying a 5" Springfield Loaded 1911 and am wanting to pick up something else for summer. I have looked at glocks, XDs, Sigs, M&Ps and Kahrs and really like the feel of the Kahr P45. I'm just looking for peoples opinions, both positive and negative, on the Kahr pistols. Any experience or knowledge on any of the handguns listed above would be much appreciated as well. Thanks
Semper Fi
Tim
theJanitor
02-09-10, 15:04
my K40 elite runs like a champ. and the trigger is so smooth. i would stick to the barrels that are around 3.5 inches or more. they seem to need less break-in and such than the real shorty's (pm9/pm40/etc). i'm selling mine right now, though no fault of the pistol
I recently sold my Kahr P45 to a LEO friend for use as his duty weapon when plain clothes. I had no problems at all, gun is very reliable, comfortable and accurate. I sold it to buy an AR, otherwise I would certainly have kept it.
varoadking
02-09-10, 18:00
Left to Right: P9, PM9, MK9, PM45, P45...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/Mancave/moreguns017.jpg
It's all good...
i would stick to the barrels that are around 3.5 inches or more. they seem to need less break-in and such than the real shorty's (pm9/pm40/etc).
No such issues here...
[QUOTE=varoadking;567861]Left to Right: P9, PM9, MK9, PM45, P45...
[QUOTE]
Between the PM9 and MK9 - which do you prefer? I hefted each side by side Saturday and did not feel the weight savings of the PM9 was that significant. I don't recall hearing of as many teething issues with the all steel MK9 as with the PM9.
Thanks
I have a Kahr PM 9, I have taken numerous hand gun classes with it and now have about 12,000 rounds through it.
This is my summer carry. I NEVER EVER had a problem with it. Since the day I brought it home its been flawless.
My winter carry guns are either a Glock 26, or a 19. I trust the Kahr just as much as I trust these fine weapons.
The only thing is to clean the Kahr at 500 round mark and oil it more then the Glocks.
Good luck,
Kevin
My PM9 has been near perfect in 600 rounds. One thing I learned was that, when reloading a small Kahr and ESPECIALLY when using the extra cap mags, you want to use the slide release lever (as opposed to sling-shotting the slide). Their owners manual says this, and their customer support says this. Prior to that, I had a couple of times where I tried to slingshot the slide after a reload, and with the extra cap mags, slide wouldn't go into battery. But they are designed to use the slide release, and since I started using that I've never had another issue.
By the way, my Dad also has a P9, it has been totally reliable through roughly 1K rounds. I think he had to have his sights adjusted, but other than that, perfection.
My EDC is a Kahr P9, never a problem with it. Kahr will tell you that you need about 200 rounds to break it in before it will be reliable, and I've heard other owners back that up. Same goes for using the slide lock to chamber the first round rather than slingshotting it. Keep it clean, lubed, follow those two rules and it will serve you well.
Anecdotal reports seem to indicate that the steel framed Kahrs are more reliable and durable than the polymer, but my polymer P9 hasn't had a problem yet. Others may tell you that the shorter MKs and PMs are more prone to problems than the full-sized frames, but I have no personal experience one way or the other.
I liked my Kahr CW-9 just fine, but I don't know that I would get another one. I went with the Kahr because I was thinking the single-stack would add concealability. I recently traded to a double-stack subcompact (P99C) and it is actually much more concealable - turns out grip length is more important than overall width.
In addition to the need to use the slide lock to reliably avoid failures to go into battery on loading, because the top round of the magazine sits nose-up compared to the rest, I had a problem with mags unloading themselves in pockets or pouches.
lethal dose
02-10-10, 10:15
you'll hear a lot of "gun snobs" dogging on kahr. i, for one, find them to be a great pistol. the combat bar-dot sights are very intuitive and the da trigger feels like a good da revolver right out of the box. when i got mine, i polished the feed ramp and then had to break them in, but they have been 100% reliable. the slide on their polymer pistols ride right on the frame with no metal inserts like a glock (glocks have metal inserts)... so i am not sure about long-term hard use, but they are a great carry gun with superb ergonomics. if you wanna spent a little extra cash, go with the mk, k, or t series. great pistols. you may read about some spotty unreliability, however i have yet to witness any. if you do a little research on who owns kahr (moon man) you might be a little turned off... but i wouldn't let that affeect your buying decision. good luck!
the slide on their polymer pistols ride right on the frame with no metal inserts like a glock... so i am not sure about long-term hard use,
The slide on poly Kahr's rides on metal frame inserts.
piggly_wiggly
02-10-10, 10:25
The P45 looks promising- all my Kahr experience has been with the PM9 and P9. Both were good shooters, but unfortunately, I had feedway stoppages with both of them, especially with hollowpoint ammo. I shot an entire season of IDPA with a P9 in SSP- had to reload a lot :D- and ended up breaking or chipping most of the floorplates on the mags. The best thing going for these guns is that they are soooooooo nice to carry. I would NOT consider carrying these in your pocket unless you have an air compressor handy to blast them out every day. I had a malfunction on the range doing a "cold" drill (as in shoot what you carry, no warm-up, prep or dry-fire) when accumulated lint in the magazine managed to work its way up the breechface on the 2nd or 3rd round round.
The worst thing going is the loooooong reset, and spotty reliability with the particular ones I had. Both were early production models though, and I've heard of other owners who have had good reliability. I'd be interested in seeing some results for a 2000 rd challenge for a P45.
lethal dose
02-10-10, 10:26
The slide on poly Kahr's rides on metal frame inserts.
hmmm... maybe. my only polymer kahrs are a cw45 and a cw9. looking at them... no metal inserts on either.
I only shoot the 6 round mags with my pm 9. I'm pretty sure mine has metal inserts. I'm sure some one will chime in as I have my Glock with me now.
lethal dose
02-10-10, 10:40
maybe higher grade models or newer production cw series have the inserts, but mine, without a doubt, do not... unless they are the new invisible metal inserts that i keep reading about! ;)
Hello all. I am currently carrying a 5" Springfield Loaded 1911 and am wanting to pick up something else for summer. I have looked at glocks, XDs, Sigs, M&Ps and Kahrs and really like the feel of the Kahr P45. I'm just looking for peoples opinions, both positive and negative, on the Kahr pistols. Any experience or knowledge on any of the handguns listed above would be much appreciated as well. Thanks
Semper Fi
Tim
I have had the MK9 and K40. Both were very good guns, highly reliable and amazing accurate. Personally, I prefer their all metal offerings. I still have the k40 and will carry that when I can't carry my 1911 commander or government.
I am currently attempting to break in a TP-45. I'm over tasked right now so I had it out to have the slide melted and Heinie Straight Eight sites installed. The pictures below are from before I sent it out. I have three other Kahrs (P-9, PM-9 and a T-9) that all run fine with zero break in. I had some stoppages with the TP-45 due to the range session being imprompt and not lubing it. Overall I only have about 150 rounds through the TP45.
Overall accurate and controlable. Time and lube will say if is reliable. I was shooting .27 splits and a few .18. I am not high speed so don't let that concern you. Bottom line it is pleasant to shoot. If I have my figures right the TP-45 is about the size of a Commander.
Holster selection is very limited for the TP-45. Mitch Rosen and Raven look to be it for now. The mags fit into my 1911 pouches though
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP452.gif
http://pro-patria.us/Pistol/TP45Raven.gif
I have plans to shoot another 300 through it, then try the 2,000 round challange. If Kahr comes out with a T-45 I'll buy it. I'd also like to see if their mag can me modified. The 7 round .45 mags are the same size as 1911 mags. If you can change followers to make a 1911 mag hold 8, it woudl seem a smart cookie could do the same for a Kahr mag.
maybe higher grade models or newer production cw series have the inserts, but mine, without a doubt, do not... unless they are the new invisible metal inserts that i keep reading about! ;)
All poly Kahrs have metal rail inserts, but they are often over looked. There is a set inside the dust cover and at the rear of the frame. Those are the bearing rails. On top you have plastic guide rails for lack of a better term. Users often comment on those shaving down ect, but they have no impact on the function of the pistol. When I get done with doing some pallets tonight I will see if I have any photos I can post.
Found an old photo that shows the front rail:
http://pro-patria.us/KahrRail2.jpg
My pm 9 has two small metal rails up front inboard and two very small in the rear ouboard.
hmmm... maybe. my only polymer kahrs are a cw45 and a cw9. looking at them... no metal inserts on either.
My CW9 had them about 1/4" from the rear of the slide rails. The metal inserts themselves were maybe 1/8" to 1/4" long and as wide as the slide rail. In addition, it had metal slide guides that were about 1" long in the dust cover (not in line with the slide rails, but lower on the slide).
Is it okay to link other forums? Someone on Blocktalk posted a thread about it.
lethal dose
02-10-10, 11:48
Send link, chip! I am honestly not seeing anything but plastic on the back half of the firearm. I'll post pics when I get around to it.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14277459
This is exactly what mine looked like.
lethal dose
02-10-10, 12:00
Once I get home i'll look at mine. I may end up standing corrected, here!
Quicker then going home, the two white spots in the back are the rear rails. Not my chart but I found it on TOS. the #11 is not an issue and is normal wear.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2206/kahrlubepointsmore.jpg
ChipM thanks for the Glock Link
That's how my pm 9 looks that's what I meant by smaill outboard rear metal.
Chickenlittle
02-10-10, 12:49
The P45 looks promising- all my Kahr experience has been with the PM9 and P9. Both were good shooters, but unfortunately, I had feedway stoppages with both of them, especially with hollowpoint ammo. I shot an entire season of IDPA with a P9 in SSP- had to reload a lot :D- and ended up breaking or chipping most of the floorplates on the mags. The best thing going for these guns is that they are soooooooo nice to carry. I would NOT consider carrying these in your pocket unless you have an air compressor handy to blast them out every day. I had a malfunction on the range doing a "cold" drill (as in shoot what you carry, no warm-up, prep or dry-fire) when accumulated lint in the magazine managed to work its way up the breechface on the 2nd or 3rd round round.
The worst thing going is the loooooong reset, and spotty reliability with the particular ones I had. Both were early production models though, and I've heard of other owners who have had good reliability. I'd be interested in seeing some results for a 2000 rd challenge for a P45.
Re: Lint
Clothing lint is a common problem, regardless of the gun in question. It has more to do with how the gun is holstered, such as IWB, than the gun itself.
I have a Glock 27 I carry IWB that has to be cleaned regularly from lint that gets in everywhere, including the space behind the magazine in the grip and the slide. Most of the lint seems to shed from cotton underwear.
The only way I know to avoid/minimize the lint is to carry it outside of your pants or use a closed end holster.
Chickenlittle
palmbeach31
04-12-10, 20:10
Hello all. I am currently carrying a 5" Springfield Loaded 1911 and am wanting to pick up something else for summer. I have looked at glocks, XDs, Sigs, M&Ps and Kahrs and really like the feel of the Kahr P45. I'm just looking for peoples opinions, both positive and negative, on the Kahr pistols. Any experience or knowledge on any of the handguns listed above would be much appreciated as well. Thanks
Semper Fi
Tim
Make sure you shoot one first. Some people can't get used to them, some people love them.
I've had the P9, the Elite 98 K9 and currently have a CW40. I have had no issues with any of the 3. For extended shooting, the heavier K9 is more comfortable than the lighter polymer framed models for me.
I plan to install the Trijicon night sights and heat stipple the frame soon.
I use the CW40 as a EDC in warm / hot weather.
gtmtnbiker98
04-24-10, 09:47
Send link, chip! I am honestly not seeing anything but plastic on the back half of the firearm. I'll post pics when I get around to it.
The polymer has probably flashed over the metal insert. It's there, trust me.
As for my experiences with Kahr, I owned a PM9 and a P45. The PM9 was good-to-go; however, the PM45 was a POS. I had it for a month before I sold it. When firing, the spent brass would get lodged between the slide and the ejector, requiring a magazine drop and a screw driver to get out. Kahr paid for return shipping, I sent it out on a Monday, they received it Tuesday, and I had it back on Wednesday. I told them that this was going to be a BUG for duty use, and they expedited the repair.
Long story short, the replaced the slide and gave me free night sights. When I took the gun back out, the ejection issues were fixed but it developed a failure to feed issues. I was relatively impatient and .45 ammo is expensive to throw away on an unreliable firearm. I sold it.
With all that said, Kahr customer service is pretty damn good and I'd buy another if I were in the market, without hesitation. The PM9 was later replaced with a P2KSK. If you get a good Kahr then you've got an awesome CCW.
I've got a PM9 with about 1800 rds on it. Bought it new in mid 2005. Serial # is VB80XX. It had about 5-10% failures to return to battery during the 200 rd break-in period. Had about 1-2% FTRB after that until I replaced the recoil spring assembly at about 750 rds on the advice of Kahr CS folks. It's had 2 FTRB in the last 1k rds, one of them in the last 25 rds. Ordered a new recoil spring assy.
Even after the 1800 rds, it still chambers the first rd (especially JHPs) better if I use the slide release rather than slingshotting the slide. Slingshotting results in near 100% nose-down failures to feed with my carry load, Fed 147 gr HST. But slingshotting works OK with ball ammo. As others have noted, the Kahr manual recommends using the slide release. This is unfortunate because it requires me to use a different technique with the Kahr than the slingshotting method I always use with my Glocks.
I was looking closely the other day at the portion of the barrel where it engages the front of the ejection port and noticed some peening. Kahr had a recall several years ago for PM9s within a certain serial # range for barrel peening. My gun is outside that range. Filled out an RA request on Kahr's website and got an RA #; will be sending it in shortly. Also my mag release (a polymer part with metal insert/s) seems to be wearing down (hasn't dropped a mag yet but the mags have more vertical play than preiviously noticed). My understanding is that some or all polymer-framed Kahrs are being built now with an all-metal MIM/cast mag release. Also the pin securing the "blow out/access" panel on the upper right side of the frame has fallen out.
Someone on the kahrtalk forum posted pics the other day comparing barrels of several different Kahr models, including the P380, K9, PM9, and a .45 model. The difference in "beefiness" between K9 and PM9 was significant. Especially startling was the difference between these two in the area of locking surface. After observing this my first thought was it's no wonder some folks report better durability and reliability with the K9 versus the PM9.
I bought this gun as a replacement for a pocket-carried S&W 642 weakside backup gun. I have found that the PM9 is actually too small for my pockets, and have gone back to the j-frames. I think a P9, P9 Covert, K9 or maybe even a TP9 would fit my pockets better. Because it's so short in length, the PM9 seems to require me to reach too far down into the pocket to get a good grip on the gun. The longer Kahrs would position the grip higher in the pocket maybe allowing a good grip without having to shove my fist so far down into the pocket. I tried several pocket holsters for the PM9, including a leather Galco model and the DeSantis Nemesis, but found that the holster would usually come out of the pocket with the gun. With the 642 and its DeSantis Nemesis or Bianchi synthetic pocket holster, I always get a smooth, trouble-free draw.
Tennvol12345
04-25-10, 17:36
PM9 owner here, had it for about 6 weeks and have about 1400 rounds through it. 200 each of blazer brass (break in), 147 HST, 127 +p Ranger Bonded, and 147gr Ranger Bonded, the rest are reloads. I've had 0 significant issues with it but will note the following:
1) The square checkering on the front strap is sharp enough that the outer ones cause my fingers to get a blisters. I fixed this by sanding them down flat and then stippling the entire gun
2) Drawing from a pocket does not work at all for me. I think it's due to the squareish shape of the rear of the pistol. I've tried a cheap Uncle Milkes pocket holster and a FIST pocket holster. I've gone back to my 642 for pocket carry since t rounded profile helps the speed of the presentation from the pocket.
arizona98tj
04-25-10, 17:47
I have a Kahr PM 9, I have taken numerous hand gun classes with it and now have about 12,000 rounds through it.
This is my summer carry. I NEVER EVER had a problem with it. Since the day I brought it home its been flawless.
My winter carry guns are either a Glock 26, or a 19. I trust the Kahr just as much as I trust these fine weapons.
The only thing is to clean the Kahr at 500 round mark and oil it more then the Glocks.
Good luck,
Kevin
Kevin....you must be mistaken on your round count. You couldn't have 12K rounds through it. I say this because I read on another forum about the PM9 and the poster said they are only meant to have a box or two of ammo put through them every now and again. They are a CCW firearm and were never meant to be shot more than just a little bit. He certainly knows what he is speaking of, right? :rolleyes:
I too own a PM9 and don't consider it any less shootable than any other handgun I own, semi or revolver. Some of those folks really crack me up with their comments. :D
Range practice is conducted with 115gr BerryMfg TMJ on top of Unique powder. The same round cycles the PM9 wonderfully as it does my XD9. I also reload Hornady 124gr HP/XTP over a slightly hotter powder charge. No PM9 feed issues with it either.
Dragon Slayer
04-26-10, 01:07
Kahr's are a hit and miss but if you get a good one it will be good for a long time. I have a PM9 with over 3000 rounds of assorted ammo through it including a few hundred Ranger 127 +P+ rounds with out any malfunctions, I would and I do trust my life to this gun any day, it is my favorite pocket gun.:)
Kahr's are a hit and miss but if you get a good one it will be good for a long time. I have a PM9 with over 3000 rounds of assorted ammo through it including a few hundred Ranger 127 +P+ rounds with out any malfunctions, I would and I do trust my life to this gun any day, it is my favorite pocket gun.:)
Hit and miss is a good way of putting it. My PM9 breezed through the break-in period without a hitch, but started getting consistent light primer strikes after only 350 rounds. The barrel lockup had become very loose and Kahr replaced the barrel and slide under warranty. I really liked the pistol up until that point.
Tomahawk_Ghost
04-26-10, 10:41
I've owned a PM9 since 2004 and haven't had a problem. I've slowed down on shooting the thing since I first purchased it. It now has a little over 1000 rounds through it. It's accurate but really not enjoyable to shoot compared to full size guns.
When I cycle out my defensive ammo I shoot it to check reliability and accuracy.
The Kahr is easily one of the most elegant designs on the market. By and large, it is a solid weapon. That said, enough issues are reported by different folks and speaking from personal experience, Kahrs call for above average care and attention before putting a Kahr into serious service.
The handbook says you need to shoot 200 rounds; no question that is a minimum, more is better. But before that even, a good cleaning (and deburring for the polymers) and lube job is recommended. Also, inspect your barrel after your first range session. Kahr barrels are plated. Unfortunately Kahr had some bad plating runs and the plating peeled in spots on some models. I had that problem on my PM9. Kahr made it right.
The PM9 in particular is a good, perhaps even unique, 9mm package.
Just put in the extra effort up front and you'll be happy.
BTW, I put the Agrip grip wrap on my PM9 and it made a big difference for me.
leopard hound
04-27-10, 09:37
i have a glock 23, a S&W airweight 38sp and a kahr pm9. My favorite pistol is the Kahr. it is very accurate. i have never had a single issue with it and it is my go to gun for c.c. mine prefers hornady critical defense ammo and i have shot it out to 50 yards with more than pleasing results........
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.