View Full Version : Gangstas and Guns: Tactical Tips from the FBI
Outlander Systems
02-10-10, 08:01
Interesting article on LEO encounters with armed street thugs.
Top 5 Most Disturbing Gangsta Tactics
The five most disturbing discoveries of the FBI’s study are that these ganstas:
Have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger.
Have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than most police.
Practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately than the average police although tend to "Shoot for effect" without aiming in actual encounters.
Nearly 70% of gangstas were successful (In getting rounds on target) with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found.
The street combat veterans (Gangstas) survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.
More at:
http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary/comm_cop_killers.asp
HiggsBoson
02-10-10, 11:19
Thanks for posting this. It helps me correct some misconceptions I had about this topic. It also contradicts popular misconceptions perpetuated by the media...
Weapon Choice
1. Handguns, obtained illegally in street transactions or thefts.
2. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows.
3. What was available "was the overriding factor in weapon choice".
4. None of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law–federal, state or local–that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership.
5. The gangsta’s in the study "just laughed at gun laws".
So I guess now the media can stop lying about how criminals obtain their guns? Right? :rolleyes:
For anyone who's interested Here's the link to the PDF (http://www.pdsdc.org/Resources/SLD/Violent%20Encounters,%20A%20Study%20of%20Felonious%20Assaults%20on%20Our%20Nation%27s%20Law%20Enforcement%20Officers%20by%20DOJ.pdf) documenting the study results in their entirety. The article presents a great summary, though.
Unsurprising, but not good
i wonder if they'll eventually start signing up for classes
They have less paperwork to fill out after a shooting, too.
i wonder if they'll eventually start signing up for classes
In some of the larger cities where crime is more prevalent there have been cases in which gang members will join the military and after leaving the military they return home and teach weapons and tactics to their fellow members.
In some of the larger cities where crime is more prevalent there have been cases in which gang members will join the military and after leaving the military they return home and teach weapons and tactics to their fellow members.
This has been a problem for quite some time.
In some of the larger cities where crime is more prevalent there have been cases in which gang members will join the military and after leaving the military they return home and teach weapons and tactics to their fellow members.
indeed.. i guess that's the free route. but if some of these higher rolling ballers just want the skills without the time, seems like the logical thing to do would be to sign up for a tactical carbine and pistol class or three. i'm sure being on the range and ready by 7:30am would be the hardest part, but that can be easily facilitated by staying up on 'yo all night.
What a great article, thanks for posting it. :D
d
... i'm sure being on the range and ready by 7:30am would be the hardest part, but that can be easily facilitated by staying up on 'yo all night.
Actually, the 'real' guys are capable of a shocking level of motivation and discipline. Check out 50 Cent's "Get Rich or Die Trying." He covers this in some detail. The first "Belly" also gives a good insight on how 'real niggaz' role. If you don't know much about this culture these two movies provide some good cultural awareness. Also check out HBO's "The Wire" series.
Latino gangs like MS13 have received very good training as a by product of the paramilitaries that grew out of 'little wars' in Latin America in the 80's.
In any fight, the worst thing you can do is underestimate your opponent. Case in point, the above article and dead LEO's.
Actually, the 'real' guys are capable of a shocking level of motivation and discipline. Check out 50 Cent's "Get Rich or Die Trying." He covers this in some detail. The first "Belly" also gives a good insight on how 'real niggaz' role. If you don't know much about this culture these two movies provide some good cultural awareness. Also check out HBO's "The Wire" series.
Latino gangs like MS13 have received very good training as a by product of the paramilitaries that grew out of 'little wars' in Latin America in the 80's.
In any fight, the worst thing you can do is underestimate your opponent. Case in point, the above article and dead LEO's.
Well said as someone who has grown up and seen the aftermath of what becomes of childhood friends who have taken this path. I fully understand and am aware of the ability of others despite their apperance. Like my mom always said don't judge a book by it's cover
Actually, the 'real' guys are capable of a shocking level of motivation and discipline. Check out 50 Cent's "Get Rich or Die Trying." He covers this in some detail. The first "Belly" also gives a good insight on how 'real niggaz' role. If you don't know much about this culture these two movies provide some good cultural awareness. Also check out HBO's "The Wire" series.
Latino gangs like MS13 have received very good training as a by product of the paramilitaries that grew out of 'little wars' in Latin America in the 80's.
In any fight, the worst thing you can do is underestimate your opponent. Case in point, the above article and dead LEO's.
I know this movie is slightly old but Training Day provides some fairly good insight as well. The problem with movies is they only skim the surface of what actually occurs in such areas. You have a very good point in mentioning the worst thing you can do is to underestimate your enemy which I think is fairly common among LEO's. The intelligence level of some of these criminals easily surpasses what LEO's are taught at the academy.
A lot of the hesitation on LEOs part comes from the hours and hours of liability instruction we get in the academy. How many times did you hear, "Pull the trigger and there goes your savings, pull it again and there goes your house...." State legislatures need to enact strict laws protecting LEO involved in justified shoots from civil action and the monday morning quarterbacking that the press, politicians, and general cop haters are allowed to do. The end results of a clean shoot should mean an accomadation, time off, and nothing more.
Video reinforces that at least one of them knows to keep moving.
Keith
John_Wayne777
02-13-10, 17:54
A lot of the hesitation on LEOs part comes from the hours and hours of liability instruction we get in the academy. How many times did you hear, "Pull the trigger and there goes your savings, pull it again and there goes your house...." State legislatures need to enact strict laws protecting LEO involved in justified shoots from civil action and the monday morning quarterbacking that the press, politicians, and general cop haters are allowed to do. The end results of a clean shoot should mean an accomadation, time off, and nothing more.
Generally speaking the department should indemnify officers who act within the boundaries of policy. I'd think long and hard before working for a department that doesn't.
Generally speaking the department should indemnify officers who act within the boundaries of policy. I'd think long and hard before working for a department that doesn't.
I completely agree. But try finding a dept. in super litigious CA that will take that stance though. There are some, but in the majprity of the urban dept. it's tough. I spent three years in Berkeley of all places, it was a pain anytime you used any force.
Very good read. As someone that spends a lot of time with these guys (criminal defense attorney) there is a distinction from the real deal guys and wannabes. However, as previously stated neither should be underestimated as either can equally kill you.
eternal24k
02-19-10, 12:58
i wonder if they'll eventually start signing up for classes
in my state the classes i signed up for required proof of moral character (a signed statement from LE or attorney) if you are not yourself LE
I wonder how much drugs have an affect on these gangstas as far as keeping their cool and getting hits
I wonder how much drugs have an affect on these gangstas as far as keeping their cool and getting hits
I will go out on a limb and say 'it depends.' If the guy has some range time and a combat mindset, I am pretty sure he could get it done most of the time at close range.
Again, in other cases LEO's are running up against more professional guys who are not high, have a combat mindset and some training.
Personally, I believe that most of these killings stem from a certain degree of over confidence/ complacency and the LEO getting caught unaware that a deadly encounter is about to begin. Action beats reaction.
Seriously, if you are an LEO think about this - how many officers do you know that truly possess a warrior mentality?
A few years ago the FBI had a similar study showing that most of the guys killed in the line of duty were considered 'nice guy cops' by their peers.
rifleman2000
02-23-10, 09:06
I am pretty damn sure that one of the best soldiers from my rifle platoon was at least an ex-gang banger. He was 31 when he joined, and shaped up to be a good guy.
madisonsfinest
02-23-10, 12:17
Unfortunately we as Police Officers are usually stuck in a reactive scenarios. I'm confident that shooting in reaction is less acurate than bringing the heat from the onset.
My stereotype of the violet urban criminal is vampire, the mythical undead being lacking conscience, sense of duty, patriotism, or any other positive trait that might justify existence. My career was spent in adult and juvenile corrections and public school teaching in an urban setting. Large numbers of this population have low intelligence mixed with drug addiction and mental illness--usually a serious mood disorder. Typically, they are sociopathic individuals and have absolutely no qualms about harming others. Few can think abstractly, and many are incapable of logical thinking at the concrete level. Their numbers are rapidly increasing. Beware of the undead. I do not exaggerate.
Williejc
Few can think abstractly, and many are incapable of logical thinking at the concrete level. Their numbers are rapidly increasing. Beware of the undead. I do not exaggerate.
Williejc
LOL.
I know what you mean, but in the land of the blind the one eye man is king. Yes, your average lowlife is just that. However, among them there are individuals who are more motivated, intelligent and self-disciplined. This is especially true for the OG's who have had the wits to survive that long.
BLACK LION
03-01-10, 20:52
They have less paperwork to fill out after a shooting, too.
They will only use spray paint or tattoo guns to document it anyway. LOL!
BLACK LION
03-01-10, 21:01
In some of the larger cities where crime is more prevalent there have been cases in which gang members will join the military and after leaving the military they return home and teach weapons and tactics to their fellow members.
Andres Raya comes to mind.
Apparently 1-2% of our armed forces are gang members.
Apparently 1-2% of our armed forces are gang members.
Thats quite a disturbing statistic when you look at the numbers...
If there are approx 1.5mil in the US armed forces and 1-2% are gang-bangers, thats roughly 15 to 30 thousand members multiplied by the average number of members in a gang(10-20) and shit starts to get ugly real fast.
Thats quite a disturbing statistic when you look at the numbers...
If there are approx 1.5mil in the US armed forces and 1-2% are gang-bangers, thats roughly 15 to 30 thousand members multiplied by the average number of members in a gang(10-20) and shit starts to get ugly real fast.
Meh..
I don't want to discount the potential threat too much, but I highly doubt that many of the gang members in the military are in combat arms MOS's, since the actual % of "teeth" in the military is pretty small. On top of that, a much smaller percentage of those in combat arms are what I would term "professional".
Are there gangsters out there with combat experience? Absolutely. Were these same guys probably turds in their respective units? Most likely.
The threat is real, but I don't think the numbers are quite what it would seem on the surface.
madisonsfinest
03-02-10, 11:00
I met a guy that was investigating gangs in the military at a training, and he was being threatened, and getting almost no support from superiors in the military not wanting to deal with this issue. He had videos of parties on military bases, where huge groups are throwing up gang signs. He showed pictures in iraq, bosnia, etc.. with tagging of US gangs on walls, barriers. It's a problem, and the sooner the military wants to deal with it, the better it will be for everyone
BLACK LION
03-02-10, 14:10
Thats quite a disturbing statistic when you look at the numbers...
If there are approx 1.5mil in the US armed forces and 1-2% are gang-bangers, thats roughly 15 to 30 thousand members multiplied by the average number of members in a gang(10-20) and shit starts to get ugly real fast.
I declined to mention some of gangs that are documented as having member in the .mil
Ms13, Vagos, 18th st , Latin Kings just to name a few...
Actually the ones the article mentioned are among the worst.
I had a buddy on the base I worked at (Iraq) that worked at one of the base command offices. On the side he was tasked with finding gang members, documenting gang graffitti, etc. It quickly became his primary job for the duration of his deployment once their headshed realized how widespread the problems were.
He had some pretty crazy stories, photos and insight into how well organized they were. According to him, most were in the Guard (allowed them to spend most of their time at home and working with others from their near geographic cities/towns) and had non-infantry mos's. They'd spray paint gang signs, mark territory, and all that fun stuff on the inside of the t-walls and jersey barriers. Alot of the on base theft problems were due to them continuing their "back home jobs" overseas. If I can find the powerpoint he gave me with all the pics, evidence, and starts he collected on our site alone I'll post it. He'd have stories about obvious gang bangers being found out and told to sign a document saying they were no longer active with their boys and then let off the hook. Call me paranoid, but I started bringing my pistol with me everytime I left our living area. Remember, they allow felons in the military now. :)
BLACK LION
03-03-10, 14:32
I had a buddy on the base I worked at (Iraq) that worked at one of the base command offices. On the side he was tasked with finding gang members, documenting gang graffitti, etc. It quickly became his primary job for the duration of his deployment once their headshed realized how widespread the problems were.
He had some pretty crazy stories, photos and insight into how well organized they were. According to him, most were in the Guard (allowed them to spend most of their time at home and working with others from their near geographic cities/towns) and had non-infantry mos's. They'd spray paint gang signs, mark territory, and all that fun stuff on the inside of the t-walls and jersey barriers. Alot of the on base theft problems were due to them continuing their "back home jobs" overseas. If I can find the powerpoint he gave me with all the pics, evidence, and starts he collected on our site alone I'll post it. He'd have stories about obvious gang bangers being found out and told to sign a document saying they were no longer active with their boys and then let off the hook. Call me paranoid, but I started bringing my pistol with me everytime I left our living area. Remember, they allow felons in the military now. :)
Soon it will be homo-felons.....
You cant have gayngsta without gay...
Soon it will be homo-felons.....
You cant have gayngsta without gay...
They'll put the homo in homocide.
A le friend who worked narcotics in the Ft. Bliss, Tx region told me that gang members use military transport to move drugs to desired locations. He said that this extensive problem had a PR lid on it.
Not many years ago I worked at a large juvenile correctional facility where gang members had actually infiltrated employee ranks within the security division. This fact was documented. The Director admitted this fact to me on the day that I quit. Some of the female guards had babies fathered by inmates. I could go on but wish not to ramble. Money talks, and bullshit walks. Here the money is narco-dollars.
In my town is a large university, and I have a few friends and acquaintances who teach there. Hearing any of this information makes them uncomfortable as it does some other professional types in my broad circle. I fear there ain't a constitutional solution.
Williejc
BLACK LION
03-04-10, 14:28
They'll put the homo in homocide.
lmao.............
A le friend who worked narcotics in the Ft. Bliss, Tx region told me that gang members use military transport to move drugs to desired locations. He said that this extensive problem had a PR lid on it.
Not many years ago I worked at a large juvenile correctional facility where gang members had actually infiltrated employee ranks within the security division. This fact was documented. The Director admitted this fact to me on the day that I quit. Some of the female guards had babies fathered by inmates. I could go on but wish not to ramble. Money talks, and bullshit walks. Here the money is narco-dollars.
In my town is a large university, and I have a few friends and acquaintances who teach there. Hearing any of this information makes them uncomfortable as it does some other professional types in my broad circle. I fear there ain't a constitutional solution.
Williejc
Not to mention the exportation of weapons as well.
Awhile back when I was looking to purchasing a beretta, I had a friend who said he had a connect who had one for sale for $200. Immediately a red flag went up but I gave him a shot anyways, because it couldn't hurt to just check it out.
It literally was a tupperware crate half full of M9's that had been stolen, as well as a few Ar's and some sort of RPG that I have never seen before.
I couldnt flee that scene fast enough.
Thanks for posting this. I was particularly interested in the descriptions of what to look for in dress and body motions in a person that carries like a gangsta.
Untrained individuals who are startled or scared all of a sudden are surprisingly accurate because they point shoot while aligning the pistol with their nose.
A lot of the gangs have had ones in the mil for some time and protect "new members in" and have helped them get moved up and training too. that I have seen!
Outlander Systems
02-05-14, 19:37
Unfortunately we as Police Officers are usually stuck in a reactive scenarios. I'm confident that shooting in reaction is less acurate than bringing the heat from the onset.
http://www.virginiacops.org/News-Resources/articles/News%2007/feb07/shootings.htm
Pretty good read, reiterating this fact.
The biggest disadvantage LEOs are faced with is abiding by ROE, which puts them behind the curve in contact situations.
This happened a couple of days ago in Atlanta, where a scumbag managed to shoot an officer 5 times before fleeing.
http://mdjonline.com/view/full_story/24509621/article-Cobb-officer-undergoing-surgery-after-Tuesday-s-shooting?mobile_view=false
Fortunately, the Officer survived the encounter, but it hits home why there is very strong need to develop the skills necessary for rapid deployment of one's weapon.
black22rifle
02-05-14, 22:58
the OP link is down, does anyone know where I can find the article?
edit: Do not underestimate anyone... ever! There are chump gang bangers but they are the equivalent to the fudds in the gun community and not everyone of them is one. Just like us some actually do know how to use the sights on their guns and they can just as easily search youtube and use the net to learn how to become better with their guns. In addition, just like someone posted in this thread I fear there is no constitutional solution.
Outlander Systems
02-06-14, 05:43
the OP link is down, does anyone know where I can find the article?
edit: Do not underestimate anyone... ever! There are chump gang bangers but they are the equivalent to the fudds in the gun community and not everyone of them is one. Just like us some actually do know how to use the sights on their guns and they can just as easily search youtube and use the net to learn how to become better with their guns. In addition, just like someone posted in this thread I fear there is no constitutional solution.
I updated the link in the OP to a site still hosting that oldie-but-goodie.
D.O.A.F.S.
02-06-14, 06:29
Still having trouble with the link. Did anyone by chance download the pdf. file? If so could I bother you to email it to me. Thanks in advance.
Outlander Systems
02-06-14, 08:18
I have updated the original link, and it should be working now. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the original report.
There is some DAMNED good reading here:
http://www.forcescience.org/tablet/articles.html
D.O.A.F.S.
02-06-14, 08:27
I have updated the original link, and it should be working now. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the original report.
There is some DAMNED good reading here:
http://www.forcescience.org/tablet/articles.html
Thank You Sir!
Amazing how well known and documented this problem is BUT its still allowed to continue. These gang members have no family support and nothing to lose. Jail is nothing more than "3 hots and a cot" with friendins, again nothing to lose. Punishment should be reading a book, wearing Wrangler jeans with a belt and a tucked in flanel shirt driving a small 4cyl car with 13" stock wheels.
Outlander Systems
02-08-14, 12:37
Amazing how well known and documented this problem is BUT its still allowed to continue. These gang members have no family support and nothing to lose. Jail is nothing more than "3 hots and a cot" with friendins, again nothing to lose. Punishment should be reading a book, wearing Wrangler jeans with a belt and a tucked in flanel shirt driving a small 4cyl car with 13" stock wheels.
You're absolutely right. The problem with incarceration, is that it is like going and getting a degree in scumbagology. They'll get out, and be back to their old tricks, with several years worth of learning all kinds of new tricks.
abanks8245
02-08-14, 17:59
Actually, the 'real' guys are capable of a shocking level of motivation and discipline. Check out 50 Cent's "Get Rich or Die Trying." He covers this in some detail. The first "Belly" also gives a good insight on how 'real niggaz' role. If you don't know much about this culture these two movies provide some good cultural awareness. Also check out HBO's "The Wire" series.
Latino gangs like MS13 have received very good training as a by product of the paramilitaries that grew out of 'little wars' in Latin America in the 80's.
In any fight, the worst thing you can do is underestimate your opponent. Case in point, the above article and dead LEO's.
Lets communicate without the racial slurs, we have a sharp bunch here. No need for it
Lets communicate without the racial slurs, we have a sharp bunch here. No need for it
Pretty sure he's quoting lyrics
abanks8245
02-08-14, 18:30
Copy that, WC, still dont want to see that on a site that I know is held to a higher order for good communication,and information sharing. Dont want to derail thread
That FBI study might explain the mentality of a murder suspect and his girl friend in a shootout with Columbus PD last summer:
http://www.nbc4i.com/story/22254746/columbus-police-officer-stable-after-being-Kourtney Hahnshot
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2014/02/07/clintonville-new-video-of-police-shooting.html
and
http://mugshots.mobi/ohio/columbus/1125797
Interesting article on LEO encounters with armed street thugs.
Have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger.
Have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than most police.
Practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately than the average police although tend to "Shoot for effect" without aiming in actual encounters.
Nearly 70% of gangstas were successful (In getting rounds on target) with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found.
The street combat veterans (Gangstas) survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.
More at:
http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary/comm_cop_killers.asp
These findings support what has been known/experienced for long time it appears and no surprises. The one in bold is the one that always surprises me. Sadly however, I think it's not because they get much practice per se, but that most LEOs do so little is my guess at least.
I had a discussion with a highly experienced retired NYC LEO who had been in a number gun fights. I made the comment that it was a good thing LEO had the edge in training and tactics and such, but he said what thugs lacked in those skills, they made up for in the willingness to shoot first and without any regard for what's behind them, etc. He felt the edge in an altercation went to the thug in most cases. The LEO usually behind the action curve and has far more to consider in their responses, so I'm unclear if one can conclude the thug more accurate than the LEO per se at least if using the hits ratio as the indicator.
Make sense?
Outlander Systems
02-09-14, 08:17
These findings support what has been known/experienced for long time it appears and no surprises. The one in bold is the one that always surprises me. Sadly however, I think it's not because they get much practice per se, but that most LEOs do so little is my guess at least.
I had a discussion with a highly experienced retired NYC LEO who had been in a number gun fights. I made the comment that it was a good thing LEO had the edge in training and tactics and such, but he said what thugs lacked in those skills, they made up for in the willingness to shoot first and without any regard for what's behind them, etc. He felt the edge in an altercation went to the thug in most cases. The LEO usually behind the action curve and has far more to consider in their responses, so I'm unclear if one can conclude the thug more accurate than the LEO per se at least if using the hits ratio as the indicator.
Make sense?
Makes perfect sense. If you are on the reaction side of the curve, vs the action side of the curve, you're going to be at a significant disadvantage.
Normalcy bias plays into this as well; if an officer makes 4,000 routine stops for every soup sammich stop, there's going to be a disadvantage on the one stop where the situation goes south. It might be an unreported stolen car, and Officer Friendly may be, in his mind, pulling over 72 year old Mavis Q. Citizen, when in reality it's her grandson Johnny Methead, who is jacked up, and doesn't want to go back in a cage.
LEOs are in a shitty position all the way around; on the one end he or she can be Officer Friendly, and end up getting shot; on the other end, they can be Officer Hardass, and end up having a bad shoot because he or she was over zealous. Either situation sucks, but due to the nature of the predatory class, there is a distinct disadvantage to anyone in Law Enforcement.
I don't know how much training is given, in general, for pre-attack indicators, but that might be a good area of focus to begin tipping the scale back into LE's favor.
There's an old saying that the rabbit is running for his life, and the fox is running for his supper. That, in essenence, is what LEOs have to overcome, to reverse the curve in the right direction.
walkin' trails
02-09-14, 08:41
A retired LE instructor running a class I took several years ago pointed stated that cops are a quarter to a half second at best behind the badguy in reaction time. Throw in stress, and worries, or just the wrong mindset about the people you're dealing with and the reaction deficit becomes wider.
Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
Makes perfect sense. If you are on the reaction side of the curve, vs the action side of the curve, you're going to be at a significant disadvantage.
Normalcy bias plays into this as well; if an officer makes 4,000 routine stops for every soup sammich stop, there's going to be a disadvantage on the one stop where the situation goes south. It might be an unreported stolen car, and Officer Friendly may be, in his mind, pulling over 72 year old Mavis Q. Citizen, when in reality it's her grandson Johnny Methead, who is jacked up, and doesn't want to go back in a cage.
LEOs are in a shitty position all the way around; on the one end he or she can be Officer Friendly, and end up getting shot; on the other end, they can be Officer Hardass, and end up having bad shoot because he or she was over zealous. Either situation sucks, but due to the nature of the predatory class, there is a distinct disadvantage to anyone in Law Enforcement.
I don't know how much training is given, in general, for pre-attack indicators, but that might be a good area of focus to begin tipping the scale back into LE's favor.
There's an old saying that the rabbit is running for his life, and the fox is running for his supper. That, in essenence, is what LEOs have to overcome, to reverse the curve in the right direction.
Complacency kills to be sure, and that goes for any job that involves high risk of physical harm to be sure. It's that one live wire you didn't check, that one gun you didn't clear, that one rope you knot you didn't check...
Thanks for bringing this one back to light. I'm gonna do a briefing training on this tomorrow, as several of my coworkers have started slacking in their warrior mindset.
Just some insight to their altered thinking, sorry no hijack intended; I worked on a surgical unit and followed several shooting related cases. Each had one thing in common, the patients were proud of the caliber and # of rounds they were shot with. It was a badge of honor, bragging rights. No shame no remorse. Compond that with no insurance, and several that were paralyzed (going to nursing home for years of rehab paid for by us tax paying workers, and their only concern is "their block". This is the role model that fatherless kids emulate?
Outlander Systems
02-09-14, 19:47
The article below focuses on the nature of the OODA Loop in the application of violent encounters.
http://www.breachbangclear.com/site/10-blog/584-10-important-things-to-know-about-violence.html
It brings to task the action vs. reaction discussed previously, as well as the intellectual, and institutional, baggage that weighs on an officer's UOF..
The takeaway is that UOF needs to be brought forth as soon as it is justified.
No one possesses a Ball, Crystal, Mk II, so the individual is left to the totality of prior training, and the situation at hand to determine how rapidly to escalate the reaction to violence.
In my experience there is almost no training in the recognition of signs/signals/body language that a fight is about to start (with guns or without). Most of the LEO's learn this through experience. Combine that with the rare use of deadly force and the warrior mentality can slip away from many. We had instructors at the academy who did their best to instill it - but some absorbed it better than others. My favorite quote from those days was "treat everyone with respect, but have a plan to kill them."
The retired LEO who runs stoppingpower.net mentioned one day that in 10 of his 11 shootings his gun was already unholstered and in his hand. He had picked up on something he knew was bad - even if he didn't know exactly what it was. Just like in most things, situational awareness rules all.
Now take away the proper mindset and then throw in LEO's who 1) won't carry a gun all the time 2) won't carry a full size gun 3) won't carry spare ammunition. Many of these LEO's will make fun of the few among us who pay for extra training with the McNamara's and Defoor's of the world. They roll their eyes that we carry second guns, knives and spare mags. But when things are going sideways, guess who they look toward? It's like they are playing the lottery that they know they can make it to retirement without having to put in the extra effort and diligence.
And sometimes those LEO's who are "nice people" are in charge of things like pre-planned arrests. Any guesses who has had an early "breakfast" near the location just in case? Or has asked fellow meat eaters to be nearby at the time of the operation?
Combine all that with the bad guy not caring who gets hurt or killed, getting to choose where/when (mostly), and even the best we have will be playing catch up. Certainly the advantage tends to be with the mope more than it's not. We know that going into the job. All we can do is train hard and hope that when the signs are present that we are perceiving them correctly.
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