View Full Version : VA - Felony snowball throwing?!?!
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0209101snow1.html
FEBRUARY 9--Felony snowball throwing charges have been leveled against two Virginia college students for allegedly pelting a city plow and an undercover police car during Saturday's blizzard. Charles Gill and Ryan Knight, both 21, were nabbed by cops in Harrisonburg, where they attend James Madison University. According to police, the pair first targeted a city plow last Saturday afternoon. The driver responded by calling cops to report the frosty fusillade. When police responded to the scene in a bid to identify the assailants, their unmarked vehicle also came under an icy assault, according to a Harrisonburg Police Department press release. Gill and Knight, a guard on JMU's basketball team, were then apprehended and booked into jail for throwing missiles at occupied vehicles, a felony. Gill (top) and Knight are pictured below in Rockingham County Sheriff's Office mug shots. If convicted of the felonious snowball tossing, the men each face between one and five years in prison, and a maximum $2,500 fine.
shouldn't these goobers be recommended for the "dummy of the week award",, throwing snowballs at LEOs??? what a couple of jerks.
shouldn't these goobers be recommended for the "dummy of the week award",, throwing snowballs at LEOs??? what a couple of jerks.
Under cover police car.
Felony? Certainly can be considered an assault of sorts, but come on. Felony? Really?
This society is so f'ed up.
You would think that by the age of 21 they would have learned that pelting cars is a dangerous and stupid idea. I learned that lesson when I was about 10 and had to run, screaming, from a man who decided to quickly dismount his vehicle and come chasing after me. Youth, endurance, and some fences saved my ass that day.
Felony? Certainly can be considered an assault of sorts, but come on. Felony? Really?
This society is so f'ed up.
I agree 100%. Stupid thing to do, yes. Worthy of a felony? NO! Dumb idea on their behalf but worth losing their right to protect themselves and their families for the rest of their lives due to this?!? Absolute bullshit in my opinion, it's a frickin' snowball for Pete's sake.
lethal dose
02-10-10, 10:35
i'll be surprised if it's NOT reduced to a misdemeanor. like everyone said... stupid? absolutely! felony material? absolutely NOT!
Do I think they should be convicted of a felony? No. But read the report, guys: they didn't just toss a few innocent snowballs. They were throwing shovel fulls of snow onto a plow truck's windshield. Then they tossed snow onto the unmarked police car and then inside it when the cops opened the doors. WTF?
Sounds like drunken idiocy putting people at risk.
I am not inclined to believe that police officers would want to waste their own time writing reports and booking people for some innocent snowballs. These guys clearly went above and beyond the call.
HPD and the City of Harrisonburg have received numerous calls regarding this incident. Please make note; this incident was more than a few snowballs thrown; it created a safety hazard for the drivers of both vehicles as well as adjacent vehicles.
This really is idiocy at the highest level. Do I think throwing snowballs at vehicles isnt the brightest idea?? Yup. Do I think its "felony" worthy?? nah.
They should tie these two morons to a stake and let the whole town pelt them with snowballs. A few hardpacked snowballs to the face and I'm sure these idiots would be cured of their "inner" need to throw snowballs.
Felony? Certainly can be considered an assault of sorts, but come on. Felony? Really?
This society is so f'ed up.
I agree that too many things are felonies and people tend to get stacked a lot harder than they used to and more so than they should.
I would have to imagine, however, that there is a lot more to this story than just a couple young guys chucking snowballs at cars. I'm betting there was a lot of less than polite verbal jousting that followed, and they lost.
John_Wayne777
02-10-10, 12:13
Having some familiarity with the area in question, dbrowne is likely right. The campus PD tends to treat the college kids in that area gently. The city PD is, shall we say, less generous and usually pretty level headed about these things.
Don't throw things at state vehicles...especially cop cars.
...and even unmarked cars in the area are pretty obviously cop cars. How many crown vics have heavily tinted windows, a push bar, and five antennas sprouting out of them?
Unreported in the story is a pattern of dangerous and stupid behavior that has emerged among the college crowd in the last several months, including a "flash mob" in the library on that campus that posed a severe danger to the lives of literally hundreds of students and staff.
From the CA vehicle code...
23110. (a) Any person who throws any substance at a vehicle or any
occupant thereof on a highway is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Any person who with intent to do great bodily injury
maliciously and willfully throws or projects any rock, brick, bottle,
metal or other missile, or projects any other substance capable of
doing serious bodily harm at such vehicle or occupant thereof is
guilty of a felony and upon conviction shall be punished by
imprisonment in the state prison.
i'm a 66yo man that lives in the woods of mississippi---pray tell,, what's a "flash mob"???????
One thing we learned as kids was not to throw crabapples or snowballs at pickup trucks. they ALWAYS stopped. Cop car? Never!
Making it a felony? I can see the danger (someone gets distracted, then swerves, hits a tree, etc, but make that a manslaughter charge). Virginia has always been a law and order state. I'm curious what the laws are like for the same offense in other states.
The country has made more and more offenses felonies, and these guys will likely never be able to vote, own a gun, and the prospects of finding a job that justifies their college degrees will become poor.
thopkins22
02-10-10, 12:58
From the CA vehicle code...
So in CA it would have been a misdemeanor correct? That sounds more reasonable.
As a side note, during my time living in Venezuela one of the families from the embassy that we knew lost their child's life to a brick/stone thrown from a bridge on the way to the airport. It came through the window of the government suburban and decapitated their son. Throwing anything at vehicles is uncool.
Dumb ass 21 year old young men for sure, but everyone involved in them being charged with a felony should be kicked square in the nuts. BTW I include the two 21 year old young men in the getting kicked in the nuts category.
Something similar happened here in NOVA a few years back. Young newly wed couple driving down 395 I believe when some turd threw a rock from an overpass that went straight through their windshield and hit the wife. Not sure if she survived, but was in critical for some time. Darwin is working well for these two clowns.
So in CA it would have been a misdemeanor correct? That sounds more reasonable.
As a side note, during my time living in Venezuela one of the families from the embassy that we knew lost their child's life to a brick/stone thrown from a bridge on the way to the airport. It came through the window of the government suburban and decapitated their son. Throwing anything at vehicles is uncool.
So in CA it would have been a misdemeanor correct? That sounds more reasonable.
Depends on what they threw... If it was a little fluffy soft snow ball, that would be a misdemeanor, but if it was a giant solid ice ball that would give you a bloody nose, or a black eye, if it hit you in the brain housing group, that would be a felony... All snowballs are not created equal and those are matters for the court to decide…
B
CarlosDJackal
02-10-10, 14:05
Felony? Certainly can be considered an assault of sorts, but come on. Felony? Really?...
Like it or not Virginia Code makes it a felony to assault LEOs (as long as it meets certain criteria).
throwing missiles at occupied vehicles, a felony
Told you guys if that cop in DC had played it cool he could have brought that crowd up on all sorts of phony baloney charges.
Used to be a felony was a crime punishable by death. They certainly lowered the bar.
Captains1911
02-10-10, 14:19
deserving of reckless endangerment, sure. A felony, hell no.
Belmont31R
02-10-10, 14:20
Another "could have" criminal law. The snowball 'could have' hurt someone so its a felony. But go punch your wife and its misdemeanor domestic violence.
Yet another reason in the long list while felons should not automatically be barred from owning guns. I bet most people commit felonies on a weekly or even daily basis without even knowing it.
Like it or not Virginia Code makes it a felony to assault LEOs (as long as it meets certain criteria).
I agree with the sentiment, 100%, but would be difficult to prove they were willingly assaulting an undercover officer in an unmarked car.
I would have to imagine, however, that there is a lot more to this story than just a couple young guys chucking snowballs at cars.
Probably right.
Those guys are pansies. As a young lad growing up in NW PA my friends and I routinely threw snowballs at city cop cars!
It was like a sport...kind of like raiding all the teachers’ houses on Halloween!
Why do you think I'm such a fast runner? :D
We saw the video on this incident awhile ago. It was the one where the LEO pulled his gun on the students for throwing snowballs. There is a link to the thread here somewhere. I guess we know what criminal charges the throwers are facing now. I also believe that these charges were levied out of spite by the prosecuting ATTY.
We saw the video on this incident awhile ago. It was the one where the LEO pulled his gun on the students for throwing snowballs. There is a link to the thread here somewhere. I guess we know what criminal charges the throwers are facing now. I also believe that these charges were levied out of spite by the prosecuting ATTY.
Doc, FYI, this is a new incident that just occurred today.
We saw the video on this incident awhile ago. It was the one where the LEO pulled his gun on the students for throwing snowballs. There is a link to the thread here somewhere. I guess we know what criminal charges the throwers are facing now. I also believe that these charges were levied out of spite by the prosecuting ATTY.
That occured in DC.
This incident occured in Harrisonburg, VA.
I strongly suspect the prosecutor charged felony to get the defendants' attention.
Such a strategy almost gurantees a plea to a lesser charge because no lawyer worth half a s#%t would risk a felony conviction on a client if a misdemeanor resolution is on the table.
If nobody was really hurt and nobody in fact swerved causing an accident, siginificant property damage etc, these will be resolved as misdemenanors with little or no jail time.
It's Virginia law. There was a story in the news a few years ago about a guy or gal who got ticked off at someone and in a case of road rage, chucked a cup of soda or juice or something at the person and was charged. Believe this is the pertinent code:
§ 18.2-154. Shooting at or throwing missiles, etc., at train, car, vessel, etc.; penalty.
Any person who maliciously shoots at, or maliciously throws any missile at or against, any train or cars on any railroad or other transportation company or any vessel or other watercraft, or any motor vehicle or other vehicles when occupied by one or more persons, whereby the life of any person on such train, car, vessel, or other watercraft, or in such motor vehicle or other vehicle, may be put in peril, is guilty of a Class 4 felony. In the event of the death of any such person, resulting from such malicious shooting or throwing, the person so offending is guilty of murder in the second degree. However, if the homicide is willful, deliberate and premeditated, he is guilty of murder in the first degree.
If any such act is committed unlawfully, but not maliciously, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 6 felony and, in the event of the death of any such person, resulting from such unlawful act, the person so offending is guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
If any person commits a violation of this section by maliciously or unlawfully shooting, with a firearm, at a conspicuously marked law-enforcement, fire or rescue squad vehicle, ambulance or any other emergency medical vehicle, the sentence imposed shall include a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of one year.
(Code 1950, § 18.1-152; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1990, c. 426; 2004, c. 461; 2005, c. 143.)
Believe a Class 6 can land in you in the bing for about a year, and probably with a fine to go with it. Keep in mind to that this is Virginia. Get caught speeding over 80mph and you could be looking at a felony charge.
Jesus Christ, a felony for throwing snowballs? Get out of the car and throw some back. Do people not have spines, balls, or a sense of season anymore?
Baloney charge and I hope these evil terrorist cop-snowballin' kids:p get off with a warning at the most.
It's all fun in the sun until that one day when a snowball hits a plow driver in the face and he loses control and runs over one of the many idiots I see walking in the middle of the roads because the sidewalks are 20" deep in snow. Just saying...penalty might be harsh, but doesn't excuse the dumb pricks who stood there in the middle of a fricking snow emergency (for this area anyway) and decided it was a good time to start launching snowballs at people in passing vehicles. Pound 'em hard law!
Jesus Christ, a felony for throwing snowballs? Get out of the car and throw some back. Do people not have spines, balls, or a sense of season anymore?
Baloney charge and I hope these evil terrorist cop-snowballin' kids:p get off with a warning at the most.
Do you have any sense of right and wrong at all? A felony will totally screw up their lives.
Civilian I believe is right.
This will get their attention for sure.
goodoleboy
02-10-10, 20:16
shouldn't these goobers be recommended for the "dummy of the week award",, throwing snowballs at LEOs??? what a couple of jerks.
I agree completely. The funny thing is that this type of behavior is what caused the Boston Massacre. Colonists in Boston started pelting British soldiers with snowballs, they opened fire on the crowd and 5 colonists were killed.
I guess people with guns don't like getting hit with snowballs.
But what a bunch of morons, throwing snowballs at a city snow plow and law enforcement officer. They ought to have to shovel their street since they don't respect those who are out there in the nasty weather trying to keep the streets safe.
Belmont31R
02-10-10, 20:23
It's all fun in the sun until that one day when a bullet hits a plow driver in the face and he loses control and runs over one of the many idiots I see walking in the middle of the roads because the sidewalks are 20" deep in snow. Just saying...penalty might be harsh, but doesn't excuse the dumb pricks who stood there in the middle of a gun range and decided it was a good time to start launching bullets at targets. Pound 'em hard law!
Fixed it for you.
Like I said another "could have" law.
Punish people for what they did, and not what they could have done. Isn't that the liberal argument against guns? As a gun owner you are dangerous for what you 'can do' with that cache of weapons in your home. Better charge you for what "could have" been a real incident!
Its all fun and games under the sun until its you under the hammer of the law.
They ought to have to shovel their street since they don't respect those who are out there in the nasty weather trying to keep the streets safe.
That sounds like a more reasonable punishment for the crime.
Proof that snow causes crime.
Since class has been canceled I have not read this in The Breeze (school paper); however, this is on their website. After reading the article, this happened on Devon Lane which many students live off of. They were probably drunk, but maybe the plower saw them digging their cars out and continued to plow snow right where they just shoveled. Obviously, the plower had to do his/her job and since it is a public street the students really don't have a say. Alcohol probably played a factor, but I did not read anything about a drunk in public charge which HPD has been writing citations more frequently.
I'm sure one of my peers saw the whole thing and will tell me their side of the story later today. Either way, it was dumb to continue to obstruct the view of a moving vehicle and dump snow on an officer. I hope that they are punished; however, I do not believe they should be convicted of a felony. Since they ride the bench of the basketball team, I am sure they will just receive a warning. Oh and JMU officers are very lenient when it comes to most things.
Collegefour
02-11-10, 07:37
Just for comparison, in Colorado "Throwing missles at vehicles" is a misdemeanor. However, if it could be demonstrated to be the cause of "bodily damage" or "serious bodily damage" the likely outcome would be a felony 2nd Degree Assault charge. If it caused a vehicle to crash, the likely charge would be felony Criminal Mischief.
Is this is that same cop in his PERSONAL car was hit and that pulled his gun on those snowball throwers. They hit his fake hummer and he got his panties in a wad. Uniform officers on site where not even bothered. I have one great word to describe him. But cops are better than us civilians remember. If anyone pulls a gun on a snowball thrower, psychological examination and take that gun away till you can figure what is wrong with him.
Correct me if this was a different snowball travesty/contempt of the law.
99% of those guys are out there protecting me from Joe crackhead, countless other dumbasses and never treat people bad. Its those 1%'ers that give the rest a bad name.
The land of the free and the home of the brave.
It is a different situation in a different city and has been cited as such in this thread.
HiggsBoson
02-11-10, 11:22
It is a different situation in a different city and has been cited as such in this thread.
Correct.
There was, however, another incident last night in DC of an arrest over a snowball thrown at a police officer.
From The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/10/AR2010021003879.html) (emphasis mine):
Thursday, February 11, 2010
THE DISTRICT
Woman charged after clobbering officer
Maria Lewis, 21, of the District was charged with felony assault on a police officer after a District officer was hit in the face with an "ice ball" during a large snowball fight early Wednesday near the Wonderland Ballroom at 11th and Kenyon streets NW, according to Sgt. Nicholas Breul, a police spokesman.
Breul said 3rd Police District officers has been called to "a disorderly snowball fight" about 2 a.m.
-- Mary Pat Flaherty
ivanhedrick
02-11-10, 11:29
I would only have to "ASSUME" that their behavior after being detained had influence on the severity of their charges. Maybe if they were, "yes sir i'm sorry, it was just a prank," they would have been let off easier, maybe with a misdemeanor.
Anyone from Virginia know if "missiles" was intended by the legislature to include snowballs? I could understand if it was intended to cover rocks or something that could come through the windshield, but this sounds like a badly drafted law being abused.
Snow shovels were used, not just snow balls.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0209101snow1.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0209101snow4.html
HiggsBoson
02-11-10, 12:36
Anyone from Virginia know if "missiles" was intended by the legislature to include snowballs? I could understand if it was intended to cover rocks or something that could come through the windshield, but this sounds like a badly drafted law being abused.
Does it even matter what the "missile" is? If someone is hurling anything more solid than insults at a motor vehicle it could cause a serious safety problem, property damage, and possibly death. It may sound innocuous but even a nerf ball thrown with sufficient force at a moving vehicle could cause a wreck. If snowballs should be allowed, how about a paint-ball? Clods of dirt? How solid/heavy must a "missile" be before it warrants criminal charges? ... I suspect "missile" is precisely the word they intended.
Main Entry: missile
Function: noun
: an object (as a weapon) thrown or projected usually so as to strike something at a distance <stones, artillery shells, bullets, and rockets are missiles>
Whether it should be a felony is different question.
HiggsBoson
02-11-10, 12:41
FYI, the relevant Virginia Code (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-154) (emphasis mine):
§ 18.2-154. Shooting at or throwing missiles, etc., at train, car, vessel, etc.; penalty.
Any person who maliciously shoots at, or maliciously throws any missile at or against, any train or cars on any railroad or other transportation company or any vessel or other watercraft, or any motor vehicle or other vehicles when occupied by one or more persons, whereby the life of any person on such train, car, vessel, or other watercraft, or in such motor vehicle or other vehicle, may be put in peril, is guilty of a Class 4 felony. In the event of the death of any such person, resulting from such malicious shooting or throwing, the person so offending is guilty of murder in the second degree. However, if the homicide is willful, deliberate and premeditated, he is guilty of murder in the first degree.
If any such act is committed unlawfully, but not maliciously, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 6 felony and, in the event of the death of any such person, resulting from such unlawful act, the person so offending is guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
If any person commits a violation of this section by maliciously or unlawfully shooting, with a firearm, at a conspicuously marked law-enforcement, fire or rescue squad vehicle, ambulance or any other emergency medical vehicle, the sentence imposed shall include a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of one year.
It is worth noting the use of the word "any" in this passage. As in... ANY missle.
thopkins22
02-11-10, 12:46
It is worth noting the use of the word "any" in this passage. As in... ANY missle.
Then you might note that said missile needs to be maliciously thrown. Can the state prove that they were maliciously attacked with snow?
See #3
http://www.dictionary.net/malicious
Malicious \Ma*li"cious\, a. [Of. malicius, F. malicieux, fr. L. malitiosus. See Malice.]
1. Indulging or exercising malice; harboring ill will or enmity. [1913 Webster]
2. Proceeding from hatred or ill will; dictated by malice; as, a malicious report; malicious mischief. [1913 Webster]
3. (Law) With wicked or mischievous intentions or motives; wrongful and done intentionally without just cause or excuse; as, a malicious act. [1913 Webster]
I highly doubt they were digging out a little old lady and a pack of orphaned puppies . . . .
Does it even matter what the "missile" is?
The definition you quoted seems to think so.
Main Entry: missile
Function: noun
: an object (as a weapon) thrown or projected usually so as to strike something at a distance <stones, artillery shells, bullets, and rockets are missiles>
So did the legislature mean something thrown as a weapon or just something thrown in a generic sense? The language about being unlawfully thrown, maliciously thrown, thrown in a situation that endangers people, etc. indicates that they meant something being used as a weapon.
Like I said it sounds like a badly worded law intended to make it illegal to throw rocks, drop things off overpasses, etc., being misapplied. But maybe I am wrong and the Virginia legislature believes it should be a felony to throw snow on a passing car.
"drop things off overpasses, etc., being misapplied. "
That is pretty much the same thing, again according to the police press report shovels were used not just snowballs.
"drop things off overpasses, etc., being misapplied. "
That is pretty much the same thing, again according to the police press report shovels were used not just snowballs.
And those are always completely 100% accurate.
Somebody threw a shovel full of snow at me = felony charges = bullshit.
That is pretty much the same thing, again according to the police press report shovels were used not just snowballs.
I was merely trying to drive at the point that I do not believe that this law was intended to cover something as harmless as snow being thrown at a vehicle in all circumstances. I am still waiting to hear how thrown snow legitimately endangered lives as the law seems to require. Certain combinations of circumstances (high rate of speed, pedestrians present, enough snow to completely obscure vision, and more) might create such a situation. I am still inclined to believe it is a misapplication of the law.
Some of the earlier posts hinting that these guys probably acted like jerks when told to knock it off and are actually being prosecuted for contempt of cop seem plausible.
And those are always completely 100% accurate.
Somebody threw a shovel full of snow at me = felony charges = bullshit.
Kind of a big difference between a moving vehicle during hazardous conditions and a "me". You may not be familiar with Virginia but for the most part we do not get a lot of snow.
Felony? Certainly can be considered an assault of sorts, but come on. Felony? Really?
This society is so f'ed up.
I'll second that. WTF!
Heavy Metal
02-11-10, 15:13
FYI, the relevant Virginia Code (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-154) (emphasis mine):
It is worth noting the use of the word "any" in this passage. As in... ANY missle.
Was the intent malicious?
That will be the nut the Prosecutor will have to crack.
Then you might note that said missile needs to be maliciously thrown. Can the state prove that they were maliciously attacked with snow?
Was the intent malicious?
That will be the nut the Prosecutor will have to crack.
You guys are overlooking what civilian pointed out earlier (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=568724&postcount=30): the next paragraph which states that it is a class 6 felony, even without malice --
If any such act is committed unlawfully, but not maliciously, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 6 felony
Whether or not the act was malicious in nature only changes whether or not it is a class 4 or class 6 felony under the VA code: not whether it is a felony at all.
In any regard, there's no way these guys will actually get felony convictions on their records. Either they'll plea down to something minor, or a jury of their peers (like the people here) will decide this isn't worth a felony conviction.
thopkins22
02-11-10, 20:50
You guys are overlooking what civilian pointed out earlier (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=568724&postcount=30): the next paragraph which states that it is a class 6 felony, even without malice --
Whether or not the act was malicious in nature only changes whether or not it is a class 4 or class 6 felony under the VA code: not whether it is a felony at all.
In any regard, there's no way these guys will actually get felony convictions on their records. Either they'll plea down to something minor, or a jury of their peers (like the people here) will decide this isn't worth a felony conviction.
Thanks for pointing that out, and I agree that the chances of these guys actually being convicted of a felony are pretty slim.
By the way, Green Man is awesome.
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