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C'yotecaller
04-06-07, 01:41
I have a FN Patrol Bolt Rifle in .308 with a 24 inch barrel. I have had it about a year with maybe 300 rounds thru it. I have tried all kinds of different ammo thru it but the best group I can still get is about 2 inches at 100 yards. Whats the deal? I have a harris short bipod on it and shoot it from a concrete shooters table, usually with a box of ammo, or something else underneath the butt stock to keep it full steady. I have used Winchester, Hornady, Remington, HSM, Surplus, etc. And everly thing from 147, 150, 165, 168, and 180 grain bullets. Including full metal jacket, softpoints, hollow points, AMax, and Sierra match king boat tails. I even had a gun smith in vegas drop the trigger to a very nice 3 lbs. And still, 2 inches, with 3 being the norm.
What is wrong? Everything I read says this gun should do 1/2 MOA, with 1 MOA being completely standard. I have shot guns almostly weekly since I was 12 so its not like I am some huge novis, even though this is my first scoped large caliber rifle.
So any suggestions would be great, things to try, things to maybe tweek or upgrade, maybe I need to change something. I dont know, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
And even though I cant get tight groups like you see on this site and others, I cant complain much about the rifle. I still love it. I dropped my buck last fall from 370 yards with one shot to the spine. And there is a 18 inch steel plate 450 yards from the concrete shooters table that I can smack every shot, But why cant I shoot 1 MOA??!!!:confused:

nationwide
04-06-07, 08:48
I would say take some time to find someone who is experienced with precision rifles, and have them coach you a bit.

I had a PBR, and could get .5MOA out of it easy (at 100 yards).

You say you have been shooting rifles for years, but this is your first "large caliber scoped" one. Well... .308 isn't a "large caliber".

My guess is you HAVE been shooting rifles for years, but it sounds like with iron sights. You have probably been happy with "field accuracy". Translate that into "Minute of Bad Guy" or "Minute of Rabbit" if you will.

My guess, is in about an hour, any experienced long range shooter will be able to help you get your groups down in size.

Good luck.

xenophobe
04-06-07, 09:40
I have a FN Patrol Bolt Rifle in .308 with a 24 inch barrel. I have had it about a year with maybe 300 rounds thru it. I have tried all kinds of different ammo thru it but the best group I can still get is about 2 inches at 100 yards. Whats the deal?

I know the mount is supplied and should be tight.

The stock is bedded isn't it? Has the stock been re-torqued to whatever McMillan spec is?

What rings do you have on it? Are you using proper M1913 rings torqued to spec...

What scope are you using?

If everything is tightened properly and you're using a quality scope and rings, if you have a local gunsmith with a borescope, I'd have him check the chamber, check out the bore, and if he can slug it to see if there are any inconsistencies in the tube, try that.

I know you say you've been shooting forever, but if the above isn't an issue, then the only thing I can think of would be... are you capable of 1/2 MOA?

C'yotecaller
04-07-07, 04:35
The stock is a Hogue with a full lenght aluminum bedding block. The barrel is free floated. It did have a small chunk of glass bedding under the very begining of the barrel but it was slanted and pushed the barrel against the side of the stock slightly. The gun smith said FN probably accidently put the gun on its side afterword when they shouldn't have. He removed it and said with the design of the stock and the bedding block it was not even necassary. Removing it did help pull the barrel away from the stock alittle. And I did notice an increase in my accuracy after he took it out and added my 3 lb. trigger. Accuracy from 3 to 4 inches to 2 to 3.
Scope is a Super Sniper SS10X42M mounted in Tactical Precision (TPS) 30mm rings.

I agree with you guys that the problem is probably me. And yes, I am used to Field accuracy as you call it. But I think I am a pretty darn good shot. I spent my entire childhood, high school years, and now college years hunting coyotes and jack rabbits with great success. A 30 round clip in my Ruger 10/22 will usually get me 25 rabbits. And I have shot around 14 coyotes with my Eotec mounted M-4 at over 250 yards away in the last 2 years. Last geese season I slammed a goose in the chest with my open sight .22 from 366 yards away (Granted it was a total fluke because I didn't think I had a chance in hell of hitting it!). I am not in anyway attempting to boast, just saying I think I am a good enough shot to be able to get at least a 1 MOA out of this gun. I swear everyone single guy on this site and "The other site" can do it. Just dont know what my problem is.

Also. I never learned or heard of "BREAKING IN A NEW RIFLE" until long after I had the gun and had already shot it a ton. When I first got it I bought 2 boxes of Winchester ammo, took it to the range, shot all 40 rounds thru it, and then cleaned it afterword. Now knowing what the proper precidure for breaking in a new rifle is, do you think those first 40 rounds without a cleaning inbetween could have jacked up its accuracy alittle?

nationwide
04-07-07, 07:19
Also. I never learned or heard of "BREAKING IN A NEW RIFLE" until long after I had the gun and had already shot it a ton. When I first got it I bought 2 boxes of Winchester ammo, took it to the range, shot all 40 rounds thru it, and then cleaned it afterword. Now knowing what the proper precidure for breaking in a new rifle is, do you think those first 40 rounds without a cleaning inbetween could have jacked up its accuracy alittle?

I am not a competetion shooter, and am no where near as experienced in this area as many members here. But It's my understanding that "barrel break in" is really a fallacy, unless you are talking about a high dollar rifle that you are actually using in competetion where .010 MOA accuracy differences mean winning or losing.

There is a componenet of the barrel leading/fouling up that will affect practical accuracy, as well as your cold bore shot... but for a regular guy, it shouldn't be much difference.

In all fairness to the really experienced precision guys here, this post is worth exactly what you paid for it! :D

jmart
04-07-07, 09:17
duplicate

jmart
04-07-07, 09:17
Play with the bedding. Try placing some upward pressure at the fore end tip. Start with a matchbook cover or two and place at the tip. Then add another cover and repeat this 2-3 times. See if you find a sweet spot point where groups improve.

If that doesn't help then it's either a barrel issue, an optic issue or a receiver bedding issue. If you have another known good scope, try that. Make sute the abrrel is clean. And lastly, maybe ditch the Hogue and go with a MacMillan synthetic stock.

striped1
04-07-07, 17:07
You admitted to federal violation of, I believe, the Lacy act and state game laws on an open forum?

Way to go.

C'yotecaller
04-07-07, 22:01
Actually no I did not. They were in season, I had a geese stamp, and the FISH AND GAME WARDEN was with me (I have known him my entire life) hunting along with a friend. We had been driving around looking for a good area to go in and get some the standard way with our shotguns when we spotted a group way out in a field. I commented that I wish we could just reach out and just drop them from there and he said no way in heck could we reach out the 350+ and shoot a goose. I said I bet I could with my .22 as a joke and he told me to go ahead and try. Our other friend asked the game warden if that was even legal. He replyed that as long as we were in a legal hunting area and had our hunting licenses and goose stamps we were fine. THE GAME WARDEN SAID SO. So unless you are a Nevada resident and have a better knowledge about the hunting laws than a Nevada Fish and Game Warden I would say you dont know what you are talking about.

C'yotecaller
04-07-07, 22:05
Jmart, I dont know what you mean by "placing a match book cover" at the forend. Please explain a little better becuase I am willing and wanting to try it and see if it helps. I just cant visualize what exactly you are telling me to do.

striped1
04-08-07, 09:23
Actually no I did not. They were in season, I had a geese stamp, and the FISH AND GAME WARDEN was with me (I have known him my entire life) hunting along with a friend. We had been driving around looking for a good area to go in and get some the standard way with our shotguns when we spotted a group way out in a field. I commented that I wish we could just reach out and just drop them from there and he said no way in heck could we reach out the 350+ and shoot a goose. I said I bet I could with my .22 as a joke and he told me to go ahead and try. Our other friend asked the game warden if that was even legal. He replyed that as long as we were in a legal hunting area and had our hunting licenses and goose stamps we were fine. THE GAME WARDEN SAID SO. So unless you are a Nevada resident and have a better knowledge about the hunting laws than a Nevada Fish and Game Warden I would say you dont know what you are talking about.

Warden or not, and I smell BS on the warden issue, it is illegal to hunt migratory birds with other than non-toxic shot, and it is illegal to hunt with a rifle.

Here is the link for the Nevada Fish and Game rule book.

http://ndow.org/law/regs/huntregs/huntbook/06/sec5.pdf

You will find it on the first page under "Non-toxic shot requirements" and on the second page, Section 20.21 "Hunting Methods" subsection a., where it states that 'no person may take migratory game birds with a rifle'.

It is 2 federal and 2 state violations.

So, no you do not need to live in NV to know the migratory bird hunting regulations, and if you were actually with a game warden, then yes I apparently do know the laws better or at least I am a much more ethical hunter and less of a felon than you and your hunting buddies.

C'yotecaller
04-08-07, 17:33
Your right, I apologize. But yes the game warden was with us. He was my scout master since I was 12 and the one who got me into bird hunting in the first place. Perhaps he just didnt care since he was with me to observe, I fired only one shot, and he (and I) where about 100% confident that at over 350+ yards I would never hit anything anyway. Its over though, the bird got eaten and used just like all the rest, no harm done. Life goes on.
Please let the forum return to the original purpose of talking about ways to improve the accuracy of my FN PBR

xenophobe
04-13-07, 07:07
I agree with you guys that the problem is probably me. And yes, I am used to Field accuracy as you call it. But I think I am a pretty darn good shot. I spent my entire childhood, high school years, and now college years hunting coyotes and jack rabbits with great success. A 30 round clip in my Ruger 10/22 will usually get me 25 rabbits. And I have shot around 14 coyotes with my Eotec mounted M-4 at over 250 yards away in the last 2 years. Last geese season I slammed a goose in the chest with my open sight .22 from 366 yards away (Granted it was a total fluke because I didn't think I had a chance in hell of hitting it!). I am not in anyway attempting to boast, just saying I think I am a good enough shot to be able to get at least a 1 MOA out of this gun. I swear everyone single guy on this site and "The other site" can do it. Just dont know what my problem is.

It doesn't sound like you know if you can shoot better than 1 MOA. A rabbit within the effective range of a 10/22 is greater than 4 MOA. A Coyote at 250m is also much larger than that. Any average hunting rifle spread can be 3-4 MOA and still get your game consistently.

You need to sit down and get it on paper to really tell, not that I think it matters to prove to anyone how well you shoot, but to figure out if it's you or the rifle you need to be in a relatively controlled environment.

So work on your marksmanship technique.

I have trouble getting 5 shots under .5 myself, but I drink a LOT of coffee and am a rather impatient shooter. If you're trying to get this kind of accuracy out of a rifle, you need to focus on every single element of your shooting technique and make sure there are no issues with your rifle. Oh, and lots of practice.




Also. I never learned or heard of "BREAKING IN A NEW RIFLE" until long after I had the gun and had already shot it a ton. When I first got it I bought 2 boxes of Winchester ammo, took it to the range, shot all 40 rounds thru it, and then cleaned it afterword. Now knowing what the proper precidure for breaking in a new rifle is, do you think those first 40 rounds without a cleaning inbetween could have jacked up its accuracy alittle?

With a chrome lined barrel? I don't think it's as much an issue unless it's SS or CroMo, and even then the 'experts' can't even agree on what constitutes proper break-in, or even if it's required.

With a chrome lined barrel, an inconsistent chrome lining could theoretically be an issue, but from what you said you have, it's probably the stock not being properly bedded, and the stock not being stiff enough. Also, if you've got a nicer scope, I'd try swapping it over for a range day.

jmart
04-13-07, 09:20
Jmart, I dont know what you mean by "placing a match book cover" at the forend. Please explain a little better becuase I am willing and wanting to try it and see if it helps. I just cant visualize what exactly you are telling me to do.

Remove barreled action from stock. Cut a couple of little sections of matchbook covers and make a little pad with them. Don't cut them so large that they encircle the barrel, just cut them small enough to support/apply pressure to the bottom of the barrel (5:00 - 7:00 support). Place them on the stock's forend tip and reinstall barrelled actionto the stock. Also, make sure the action screws are installed properly. You may want to consult the mfg for torque specs, but I always just make sure the rear screw is snug and then I tighten the fwd screw pretty good and then back off a half turn or maybe a bit more. I know that isn't too scientific but it seems to be a decent rule of thumb.

The idea is to place some upward pressure on the barrel at the end of the stock to dampen the vibration. If this ends up working the next step would be to remove the barrelled action again and replace the temporary pad with a proper Acraglass pad.

SinnFéinM1911
04-13-07, 10:06
Send me a email @ Brettw@fnhusa.com and we will see what we can do for ya !

chad
04-13-07, 17:21
I would say take some time to find someone who is experienced with precision rifles, and have them coach you a bit.


I agree.

I suggest you not do a thing with the rifle until you have someone confirm it is a rifle issue.

Chad

meat
04-20-07, 01:56
perhaps perform a "box test" to confirm the scope is solid?