View Full Version : Locked out of Safe!
Maybe this is just more of a rant but I am a bit bothered by this situation. I have an Oxbow safe and right now I can't get into it.
Last night I put up a couple guns I had out to work on. Today I went to put away an AR I left out and grab my G27. Imagine my surprise when I was unable to get into the safe. At first I figured I entered my combo wrong but after a couple of attempts I was locked out. I was in a hurry so I just took the light of my M&P and carried it for the day. The AR went in my trunk and went to work with me.
When I got home I was still unable to get into the safe. I called Canon and they are sending me a new keypad, and electronics set. This does however worry me. I am locked away from most of my firearms and a good portion of my loaded mags and ammo.
Hmmm Should I use this as an excuse to go buy another AR since I don't have access to a backup right now? ;)
That would be quite irrational. ETA on the replacement parts arrival? I view it as a design flaw that you would become permanently locked out for repeated false code entries. If anything I would take this moment to find a better safe that offers both manual and electronic opening methods or just manual. Trusting my accessibility to firearms with the workmanship of some lowly paid factory worker and cheap electronic components is a severe concern to me.
My Stack-On safe does this to me from time to time. It will lock me out for about 10 minutes if the entry attempt fails 3 times, which really pisses me off since I enter the code correctly regardless.
That said, I can usually get into it the next time around, but it is inexcusable. If the friggin thing wasn't so big and heavy I would already have taken it back for a combination lock.
Do you have an emergency key? The one they give if the batteries fail?
That would be quite irrational. ETA on the replacement parts arrival? I view it as a design flaw that you would become permanently locked out for repeated false code entries. If anything I would take this moment to find a better safe that offers both manual and electronic opening methods or just manual.
ETA is Tuesday.
I am not locked out for failure to enter the correct code. They had me try a diagnostic code and it didn't respond so the Keypad is not talking to the lock for some reason. I have seen a number of OxBow safes used around here with no problems. But this has shaken my confidence in them.
If I need to get a new one what do you all suggest? Ft. Knox?
Do you have an emergency key? The one they give if the batteries fail?
No. What is this? It has a backup battery.
When I got home I was still unable to get into the safe. I called Canon and they are sending me a new keypad, and electronics set. This does however worry me. I am locked away from most of my firearms and a good portion of my loaded mags and ammo.
Forgive me for being dense, but how does this help you? If it is locked how are you going to get in to replace the keypad and electronics?
Keypad can be replaced without getting into the Safe. This doesn't alter the combination. Electronics are if the keypad doesn't work and I need to get a locksmith. They wanted me to have them just in case so there was minimal delay.
theJanitor
02-10-10, 17:43
Keypad can be replaced without getting into the Safe. This doesn't alter the combination. Electronics are if the keypad doesn't work and I need to get a locksmith. They wanted me to have them just in case so there was minimal delay.
my safe has a keyhole behind the keypad.
No. What is this? It has a backup battery.
My safe came with two keys that can be used to override the electronic lock in the event of battery failure or if I forget the combination. The lock must be removed with a small hex tool provided first.
Sounds like you don't have one, which baffles me. Any electronic device can fail so of course safeguards must be in place.
so someone could get their hands on a keypad, and have a "universal" key to any safe with that keypad?
No the new keypad does not alter the combination. That is stored in the electronics inside the door. A new keypad is just like putting a new keyboard on you computer.
My safe came with two keys that can be used to override the electronic lock in the event of battery failure or if I forget the combination. The lock must be removed with a small hex tool provided first.
Sounds like you don't have one, which baffles me. Any electronic device can fail so of course safeguards must be in place.
Nope. I have the entire unit off and there is nothing like this.
Yep time to get a new safe. Anyone want this one? ;)
I would seriously considere an upgrade to a mechanical type combination lock, either a Sargent and Greenleaf model or a Lagard model, avoid digital/electronic type locks. The electronic locks have a tendency to "die" at the wrong times. Both the maniufactures will provide a name of a qualified local locksmith or safe technician who can install the new mechanical type lock.
Yep time to get a new safe. Anyone want this one? ;)
All contents included? :)
Just kidding, good buddy. Call them right away and ask what the remedy is. It can't be as simple as a blowtorch, there must be some way.
theJanitor
02-10-10, 17:52
No the new keypad does not alter the combination. That is stored in the electronics inside the door. A new keypad is just like putting a new keyboard on you computer.
yeah, i noticed you said that, sorry
While we're on this topic, what would you guys recommend for a firearms safe around $1500 or less? Also, I'd really like an ammunition locker. An all steel construction with heavy gauge mesh steel as the front.
All contents included? :)
Just kidding, good buddy. Call them right away and ask what the remedy is. It can't be as simple as a blowtorch, there must be some way.
Sure all for the low low price of $15,999.99 plus shipping!
Right now the remedy is the new keypad. After that I don't know. Blowtorches are out because I have ammo and documents in there. Heat bad!
This is why I ditched the small safe my wife got me one Christmas when I only had pistols. I will never again use a safe that has an electronic combo. I had to turn a key in addition to pressing buttons, but the batteries in died in less than 3 days and my code wouldn't work sometimes. Old-fashioned dials or keys are the only way I go from now on.
I have never been able to get into a dial type safe. For some reason my brain just can't work them LOL.
However not having a key backup is stupid now that I think about it.
I would seriously considere an upgrade to a mechanical type combination lock, either a Sargent and Greenleaf model or a Lagard model, avoid digital/electronic type locks. The electronic locks have a tendency to "die" at the wrong times. Both the maniufactures will provide a name of a qualified local locksmith or safe technician who can install the new mechanical type lock.
Yes, I had a S&G electric lock, and it died on me. The safe guys said that was common.
Put a regular dial lock on it and never looked back...
Yes, I had a S&G electric lock, and it died on me. The safe guys said that was common.
Gee. Guess which brand of keypad I have.
I have never been able to get into a dial type safe. For some reason my brain just can't work them LOL.
However not having a key backup is stupid now that I think about it.
I know what you mean guy...my parents have one. If there house was on fire it would take an act of divine intervention to get the damn thing open, its very likely all the contents would burn. Think 1st number pass 4 times, 2nd number pass 3 times reverse direction, 3rd number pass 2 times reverse direction, stop slightly short of the 4th number reverse direction while turning lever... its quite the task
Maybe this is just more of a rant but I am a bit bothered by this situation. I have an Oxbow safe and right now I can't get into it.
Last night I put up a couple guns I had out to work on. Today I went to put away an AR I left out and grab my G27. Imagine my surprise when I was unable to get into the safe. At first I figured I entered my combo wrong but after a couple of attempts I was locked out. I was in a hurry so I just took the light of my M&P and carried it for the day. The AR went in my trunk and went to work with me.
When I got home I was still unable to get into the safe. I called Canon and they are sending me a new keypad, and electronics set. This does however worry me. I am locked away from most of my firearms and a good portion of my loaded mags and ammo.
Hmmm Should I use this as an excuse to go buy another AR since I don't have access to a backup right now? ;)
There isn't a key backup on it?
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/a/a3/3x11-C4.jpg
:D
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/a/a3/3x11-C4.jpg
:D
Hook me up my friend.
I know what you mean guy...my parents have one. If there house was on fire it would take an act of divine intervention to get the damn thing open, its very likely all the contents would burn. Think 1st number pass 4 times, 2nd number pass 3 times reverse direction, 3rd number pass 2 times reverse direction, stop slightly short of the 4th number reverse direction while turning lever... its quite the task
All it takes is practice, the correct practice. It will become easier if you dial up the combination lock often. BTW,You NEVER turn apply pressure to the door lever/handle /wheel until after you have finished dialing and retracting the combination lock bolt THEN retract the door bolts. S&G electronic locks are known to give problems and S&G has been in the safe combination lock field for a looong time. I can' t imagine what happens with all the cheap import electronic locks!:rolleyes:
All it takes is practice, the correct practice. It will become easier if you dial up the combination lock often. BTW,You NEVER turn apply pressure to the door lever/handle /wheel until after you have finished dialing and retracting the combination lock bolt THEN retract the door bolts. S&G electronic locks are known to give problems and S&G has been in the safe combination lock field for a looong time. I can' t imagine what happens with all the cheap import electronic locks!:rolleyes:
Great. I have a S&G electronic lock and I payed an extra $150.00 for it. :rolleyes: Also, on mine there is a gap between the lock and the front of the safe (not like this on the mechanical locks). There are two (what appear to be) rivets holding the lock on and a shaft in the middle to unlock the safe. It looks like it would only take a cutting wheel (disk) to cut the two rivets and one would be able to turn the shaft (unlock the safe) even if the code was not entered. That or pull the lock off and turn the shaft with some pliers. Anyone else have this?
I know what you mean guy...my parents have one. If there house was on fire it would take an act of divine intervention to get the damn thing open, its very likely all the contents would burn. Think 1st number pass 4 times, 2nd number pass 3 times reverse direction, 3rd number pass 2 times reverse direction, stop slightly short of the 4th number reverse direction while turning lever... its quite the task
If you think that's tedious, try entering the correct number sequence electronically and still be denied access. Three consecutive "failures" and you are locked out until the lock resets about 10-15 minutes later. Then you can try again...:rolleyes:
Anyway, I would not consider a safe as something to be accessed very quickly regardless. If you can get in fast, that's great. But we all know there can be various issues manual or electric, so preparedness is also something to consider.
There isn't a key backup on it?
This was discussed.
Sidewinder6
02-11-10, 09:22
You enter your code and the lock fails to disengage. Often a symptom of the keypad wearing out, not recognizing a number that you pushed and when you hit # says that was a failed attempt. That was #1. after two more attempts the lock has that timeout period so people dont stand there and guess their way in to the lock.
The safe is designed to simply delay entering the vault and that delay is inconvenient now that the lock is not responding to your cursing.
A replacement keypad might help, assuming the mechanisim itself is not fubar.
Worse case, a safe and vault technician can enter the safe for you and repair the entry afterwards. It is more expensive than a trip over to Home Depot but that is the trade off. You are paying for the specialized tools needed and the expertise to enter and then restoration of the container.
Bottom line is the old cliche: Buy cheap, Buy Twice.
You could just get a Kaba Mas X-09 lock, replace the electronic keypad lock and be done with it. That may be a little spendy, but they don't have too many problems that I have seen. Just thought I'd throw that out there to give you a comparison of a lock to the prices on some of the residential security containers. The keypad will get you fixed up hopefully.
My safe came with two keys that can be used to override the electronic lock in the event of battery failure or if I forget the combination. The lock must be removed with a small hex tool provided first.
Sounds like you don't have one, which baffles me. Any electronic device can fail so of course safeguards must be in place.
What kind of safe/lock do you have? I never knew having and electronic lock with a key bypass existed. Please tell me more!
Nathan_Bell
02-11-10, 10:43
I know what you mean guy...my parents have one. If there house was on fire it would take an act of divine intervention to get the damn thing open, its very likely all the contents would burn. Think 1st number pass 4 times, 2nd number pass 3 times reverse direction, 3rd number pass 2 times reverse direction, stop slightly short of the 4th number reverse direction while turning lever... its quite the task
Run through the combination until you only have to hit the last number and then spin back to the unlock point. Going through the entire combo under stress would be a major CF.
What kind of safe/lock do you have? I never knew having and electronic lock with a key bypass existed. Please tell me more!
Well, all I can tell you is that my safe is a 16 gun (not a chance in hell) Stack-On that has an electronic lock. The lock comes with both a small hex tool to remove the face of the lock as well as two other large keys to manually override the lock if necessary.
I thought this was standard, very surprised it may not be. WTF do they expect you to do in the event of such a failure?
Nathan_Bell
02-11-10, 10:51
Well, all I can tell you is that my safe is a 16 gun (not a chance in hell) Stack-On that has an electronic lock. The lock comes with both a small hex tool to remove the face of the lock as well as two other large keys to manually override the lock if necessary.
I thought this was standard, very surprised it may not be. WTF do they expect you to do in the event of such a failure?
Call a locksmith. A good one will be inside of the safe before you really would want to believe.
I have two safes; one a Ft. Knox, the other a big assed commercial Diebold.
Local smith 'broke' into the Ft Knox in about 2 minutes and about 5 for the Diebold, just on touch alone on the dials. He says the keypad units are even easier. :eek:
Call a locksmith. A good one will be inside of the safe before you really would want to believe.
I have two safes; one a Ft. Knox, the other a big assed commercial Diebold.
Local smith 'broke' into the Ft Knox in about 2 minutes and about 5 for the Diebold, just on touch alone on the dials. He says the keypad units are even easier. :eek:
I understand this, sure. But how impractical, expensive and inconvenient is that when a simple back-up key can be made available? Stack-On isn't exactly the best out there, so if mine has one all of them could.
Maybe some manufactures see them as a liability?
Nathan_Bell
02-11-10, 11:14
I understand this, sure. But how impractical, expensive and inconvenient is that when a simple back-up key can be made available? Stack-On isn't exactly the best out there, so if mine has one all of them could.
Maybe some manufactures see them as a liability?
I would ASSume as much. Lawyering up makes companies do odd stuff.
It's interesting that I got my wife to watch Jericho with me a couple weeks ago and thought to myself: "If there was some sort of EMP attack, or my safe electronic keypad shorted out, I'd be up a creek without a paddle."
Looks like Patriot safes have some sort of electronic keypad with key bypass.
You could just get a Kaba Mas X-09 lock, replace the electronic keypad lock and be done with it. That may be a little spendy, but they don't have too many problems that I have seen. Just thought I'd throw that out there to give you a comparison of a lock to the prices on some of the residential security containers. The keypad will get you fixed up hopefully.
KABA- ILCO X-09 series have there list of problems. Stick with the mechanical S&G 8400 or 8500 series. Spend a bit more(but much less than the X-09) and have reliability second to none.:cool:
I recently went through this same situation...electronic keypad would not let me in...:mad: Fresh battery, waited 30 minutes...still no entry.
It is amazing the emotions that run through your mind when you can't get to your stuff...:(
I called a locksmith and had them come out to drill and install a dial (paid ~$250 including emergency trip charge).
I was finally able to get in to the safe just before the tech arrived. This saved me a few hundred dollars in drilling (time).
Decided to go ahead and install the dial (lock) just to be 100% sure from that point on. Couldn't trust the electronic any longer...
Sold the electronic lock on eBay for ~$60 (worked every time after I removed it from the safe :confused:).
I recently went through this same situation...electronic keypad would not let me in...:mad: Fresh battery, waited 30 minutes...still no entry.
It is amazing the emotions that run through your mind when you can't get to your stuff...:(
I called a locksmith and had them come out to drill and install a dial (paid ~$250 including emergency trip charge).
I was finally able to get in to the safe just before the tech arrived. This saved me a few hundred dollars in drilling (time).
Decided to go ahead and install the dial (lock) just to be 100% sure from that point on. Couldn't trust the electronic any longer...
Sold the electronic lock on eBay for ~$60 (worked every time after I removed it from the safe :confused:).
I have bench and safe tested (lock installed on safe, combination set and locked, door open) various electronic locks and this happened alot. You just don't know when the electronic lock will go. I had a bunch of X-09s that had a bad part right out of the box! Frustrating before installation, akward after the installation when the customer is testing his new high dollar lock and you only found out after calling tech support!! :rolleyes:
Ridge_Runner_5
02-11-10, 21:38
Have you tried shooting your way into it?
Update. I was able to get into the safe today. Did nothing different. I am torn between leaving it unlocked and taking a chance on locking it back up.
Update. I was able to get into the safe today. Did nothing different. I am torn between leaving it unlocked and taking a chance on locking it back up.
I say leave it unlocked and have a dial installed as soon as possible. If the electronic lock completely craps out, you're going to be paying to have it cracked and then install a new lock anyway...
BTW, buy an AMSEC safe next time. ;)
While we're on this topic, what would you guys recommend for a firearms safe around $1500 or less?
Save up and buy an AMSEC. Now's a good time to buy closeout's on last year's models.
I know what you mean guy...my parents have one. If there house was on fire it would take an act of divine intervention to get the damn thing open, its very likely all the contents would burn. Think 1st number pass 4 times, 2nd number pass 3 times reverse direction, 3rd number pass 2 times reverse direction, stop slightly short of the 4th number reverse direction while turning lever... its quite the task
A safe is a security container, designed to delay entry. Besides, shouldn't the idea be to get out of a burning house rather than stay and rummage through the safe? Good safes have fire ratings, you know. Just sayin'...
I have had to replace 2 S&G locks on my Ft. Knox (both free with their outstanding warranty). The problem I had was the electronic re-locker wasn't resetting properly to allow the safe to lock, and it would intermittently do the same thing on opening. Locked me out just like yours did.
The 2nd lock I put in has done the trick. The Ft. Knox tech told me that S&G has fixed the issues with the re-lockers so I hope not to have the problem again.
They just send you the internals for the lock not a new keypad. It took me longer to take my handguns off the rack on the door than replace the inner portion of the lock.
Good luck.
I have bench and safe tested (lock installed on safe, combination set and locked, door open) various electronic locks and this happened alot. You just don't know when the electronic lock will go. I had a bunch of X-09s that had a bad part right out of the box! Frustrating before installation, akward after the installation when the customer is testing his new high dollar lock and you only found out after calling tech support!! :rolleyes:
Wow, that sounds like a bad experience. I know the X-07 had some issues as we've had them fail, but so far the X-09's we've got haven't had any issues. Granted this is on a seemingly smaller sample size than it appears that you're dealing with. I get the impression that you're dealing with way over 50 so you definitely have significantly more insight into these failures than I do. Thanks for the info!
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