Primers popping - cases bulging ???

[TigerStripe]

I've had in the last week two Wolf M193 cases bulge with one having a partially ripped rim and one popped primer. (Wolf is fixing me up on the ammo) I have had within the last five days or so had fifteen to twenty primers pop on Radway Green. I'm starting to wonder if it is the ammo or the gun. What could be causing this if it is the gun?

TIA,

TS

[CapnCrunch]

What manufacture was the barrel? Sounds like it's a case of using a .223 or "match" chamber with 5.56 ammo.

Chances are, if you call Ned Christiansen up at Michiguns and get a 5.56 chamber reamer it should fix you right up.

[TigerStripe]

Barrel is/says DPMS CL 556 1-7.

Thanks,

TS

[TigerStripe]

The gunsmith said it had two-thousandths too much headspace. He said he could not "take it up" due to "the way you have the handguard and gas tube." I guess he means the DD rail and how the gas tube goes through it. New barrel, or new barrel extension and bolt, or new barrel, barrel extension and bolt...


TS

[TigerStripe]

Any ideas on what kind of barrel and/or who I should get to do it? I want a 14.5", maybe a 16".


TIA,

TS

[jmart]

Wolf M193 has been reported as being pretty fluky. Yours is not the first report I've read on high pressure indications. Not sure if it's the load or the brass.

Can't help you out on the RG.

Is this the only ammo you've shot in it?

[Pat_Rogers]

We had 7 dpms uppers so marked belonging to a SWAT team (all new) that had the same (and other) prolems in June in IN.
We did apply Ned Christensen's excellent reamer. We also replaced the extractors, the old style extractor springs and the blue (!) inserts in order to get the guns to run right.
The cops were not happy with this as they are working guns, and not happy with customer service ("I can assure you that the barrel is marked 223, and you are using the wrong ammo in it").
We have seen this issue with this companies guns before, and in the past they stated that they make "match" chambers as "everyone" wants "match" chambers as they are more "accurate".
While a tight chamber may add to accuracy, if the gun doesn't work it is pretty useless.

Be very suspect of your ammo. We have seen several instances of XM193 that would pop primers like it was meant to.

[R Moran]

Pat,
Have you seen any problems with Win Q3131a? The cases have been sticking in my chamber. This is on a Colt 6920 with the Ken Elmore mods. I had this problem with every type of ammo but XM193 awhile back. Ken looked at it and put a new barrel on it, no problems for awhile then cases sticking again. Tried some Black Hills blue box and it seems to run fine with that. It alos gets pretty hot on the range here, so after a few mags, the guns pretty hot.

Bob

[Pat_Rogers]

Brother Bob!
As the ammo supply gets tighter the QC is apparently getting sloppier. We always saw some problems with the 31A, but it varied quite a bit.
We had Shep Kelly come down and give an hour block on ammo issues- very enlightening, as well as depressing.
Ammo prices will go up a whole lot shortly, and supply will diminish.
I fear that what is left is going to be the dregs.
Black Hills is the best of the ammo out there. You pay, but you receive quality.
He is backed up until late November.
I just picked up 115k rds for a class out your way (you know the guys).

[TigerStripe]

I had no problems out of RG in my POF and I can't remember about the Wolf M193. It (My DPMS) shoots .223 spec fine, just doesn't like 5.56mm spec at all. However, QC is no doubt sloppier these days.


TS

[R Moran]

Pat,
If you need help shooting that up, when your out here, give me a call. The local Sportsman's Wharehouse sells BlackHills, I may just go stock up, while i still can.

Bob

[jmart]

All the reports I saw about Wolf M193 was that it ran OK in SBRs/carbines, but rifles would choke on it. Velocities were good, so it's not underpowered stuff. It's loaded by prvi partisan from Serbia, uses good brass, supposedely they are a reputable ammunition manufacturer. It is loaded with an extruded powder, not ball like most 5.56 loads. A lot of people were theorizing there's something going on with a burn rate incompatibility, but that's just conjecture.

Some reported issues were primer flatteneing and cratering, and bolts not locking back. These were in weapons that ran LC XM-193 without issues. Not sure if there were cases of primers popping, just can't remember.

I haven't tried any out yet just based on the spotty nature of the reports. When it was first introduced, the price sure was right, right around $200 for a 1,000 round case. If they can get it to work it will be a godsend given recent ammo price hikes.

[Forest]

The gunsmith said it had two-thousandths too much headspace. He said he could not "take it up" due to "the way you have the handguard and gas tube."

Is your gunsmith trying to shorten headspace? Do you know what he is getting for headspace, and what standard (M16 or SAAMI .223) is he checking against? I don't understand his comments about the gas tube or handguards as they have nothing to do with headspace (checking or 'fixing').

Standard procedure if a chrome lined barrel fails the 'Field' gague is to re-test with a new bolt. Then if that doesn't work, you try a new barrel and the old bolt, and if THAT doesn't work obviously a new barrel & bolt will fix the situation.

[TigerStripe]

He did say what I quoted him as saying he also said it "was right at the level where 5.56 may have problems". He said that I could shoot .223 until I hot the barrel out.... I bought it to have a 5.56 gun. I will rebarrel it.


Thanks for all the help and any more info would be appreciated.

TS

[Forest]

He did say what I quoted him as saying he also said it "was right at the level where 5.56 may have problems".

If you can shoot .223, but 5.56 will give you problems then it indicates the chamber is too short, as 5.56 chambers have a longer field gauge (indeed a 5.56 chamber that will fail a .223 no-go will still pass a 5.56 field gauge test).

Yeah I'd get a new barrel.

[Todd.K]

From the sounds of it you don't have an AR Smith.
.223 and 5.56mm have different headspace gauges, your Smith might not know the difference.
Did this barrel come with the bolt? If it did send it back to the manufacturer and let them fix it. If it didn't come with the bolt try a few other bolts for headspace.

Proper headspace is more important than most people seem to think.

[jmart]

Headspace is a casehead-to-datum issue. Are we talking about using a throating reamer to lengthen the leade and tapering it some more. I thought those dimensions were the main differences between 5.56 and commercial .223. Headspace gauges, different bolts, none of those are going to help diagnose and/or correct that.