View Full Version : Knock and Talk? Can anyone shed some light on this LE tool?
I was wondering if some of the LEOs on the thread could share their experience and views on knock and talk. I understand knock and talk to be a tool used by LE to ferret out potential drug houses and other offenders. Now I understand that you don't have to open the door or even let the officers inside when the visit. The question at large seems to be the constitutionality of letting officers in to your home. Can you be prosecuted if they find illegal substances in your home? I know that there are ways to influence a person's response when they are faced with a person in a position of authority. Is this authority abused when used by LE?
The only experience I have that is even close to this type of tactic is "Cordon and Knock" operations that we use downrange. We would shutdown all travel in a neighborhood and go door to door and ask the inhabitants if they had seen anything suspicious or we would ask to come in to see how many AKs they had and check for explosives. I always wondered what would happen if the inhabitants said no.
DragonDoc - complicated question. The 4th Amendment guarantees your rights against unreasonable (specifically warrant-less) search and seizure, but there are several legal precedents which govern exactly what's "reasonable."
The courts hold that people should have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" in certain places (won't get into that, it'll bog us down); with the home or place of residence being relatively inviolate. However, if you CONSENT to a search of an area where you have REP, then anything LE finds is fair game.
The question here is, what's an honest, un-coerced consent. That's why we pay lawyers and judges big money - to figure those things out given the circumstances of any given search.
Of course, once you open the door, even if you don't let the LEO into the house, anything that he can see from his position outside your residence now becomes fair game under the "plain sight" doctrine.
However, I, personally, have never used a "knock and talk" to scope out a possible target house - if I'm going to be kicking in your door, I don't want you to know I know you exist! The knock & talks that I've done have been more in canvassing for possible witnesses to crimes, and/or to identify the residents in the immediate vicinity of a crime. Of course, I'm a federal guy, and haven't had the privilege to serve as a local or state LEO, so my experience may be atypical.
Regards,
Kevin
glockshooter
02-12-10, 21:30
A knock in talk is just that. There is nothing that prohibits a officer to do that the same thing any other person can do. If you don't want to talk then don't answer the door or tell the officer you don't want to talk. Yes if during that contact an officer sees contraband in plain view you can be charged and in most cases found guilty. Now just because a officer sees something doesn't give him the right to search your entire house he would need a search warrant for the rest of the stuff.
DragonDoc - complicated question. The 4th Amendment guarantees your rights against unreasonable (specifically warrant-less) search and seizure, but there are several legal precedents which govern exactly what's "reasonable."
The courts hold that people should have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" in certain places (won't get into that, it'll bog us down); with the home or place of residence being relatively inviolate. However, if you CONSENT to a search of an area where you have REP, then anything LE finds is fair game.
The question here is, what's an honest, un-coerced consent. That's why we pay lawyers and judges big money - to figure those things out given the circumstances of any given search.
Of course, once you open the door, even if you don't let the LEO into the house, anything that he can see from his position outside your residence now becomes fair game under the "plain sight" doctrine.
However, I, personally, have never used a "knock and talk" to scope out a possible target house - if I'm going to be kicking in your door, I don't want you to know I know you exist! The knock & talks that I've done have been more in canvassing for possible witnesses to crimes, and/or to identify the residents in the immediate vicinity of a crime. Of course, I'm a federal guy, and haven't had the privilege to serve as a local or state LEO, so my experience may be atypical.
Regards,
Kevin
Thanks Kevin.
Now just because a officer sees something doesn't give him the right to search your entire house he would need a search warrant for the rest of the stuff.
A good friend of mine who is a deputy sheriff woud disagree. He's done many a 'knock and talk' and when he finds something illegal it gives him probable cause to search the whole premise's.
MSP "Sarge"
02-12-10, 22:59
Yea Doc what they said. Kind of the same idea when you are at the airport and an officer approaches you and begens conversation with you. You do not have to talk to him and you do not have to let him look in your bag if you don't want him to. They are only trying to develope probable cause to take it further. Then again if you have nothing to hide let them in or stop and talk with them when they approach.
A good friend of mine who is a deputy sheriff woud disagree. He's done many a 'knock and talk' and when he finds something illegal it gives him probable cause to search the whole premise's.
Not without a warrant... You can recover any controband you can see from outside and do a protrctive sweep for bad guys, and anything else in plain sight during that is fair game, but beyond that... Get a warrant!!! Or you will end up with fruits of the poisonous tree...
B
MSP "Sarge"
02-12-10, 23:39
Buck is right! Fruit from the poisionous tree! Seize what's insight, secure the residence, sceen what ever your working with and get a warrant!
Not without a warrant... You can recover any controband you can see from outside and do a protrctive sweep for bad guys, and anything else in plain sight during that is fair game, but beyond that... Get a warrant!!! Or you will end up with fruits of the poisonous tree...
B
That may be how things are done where you operate, but not here. How legal it is I can't say with any sort authority, but it's pretty common for somebody to get rolled up for other stuff due to the fact that an officer saw something in plain view.
Consent is where the lawyers are making the big bucks these days.
edited: The savvy way to do it is IF you have enough for the protective sweep, then sweep. If you find contraband, note it, don't move it, and go the warrant route. You still have to get a foot in the door, and more often than not, its with consent.
Yea Doc what they said. Kind of the same idea when you are at the airport and an officer approaches you and begins conversation with you. You do not have to talk to him and you do not have to let him look in your bag if you don't want him to. They are only trying to develop probable cause to take it further. Then again if you have nothing to hide let them in or stop and talk with them when they approach.
I guess I could do that but I wouldn't. I wouldn't consent to a search based solely on my principles. I have a 4th amendment right as long as I exercise it. When we fail to exercise our rights they atrophy and become marginalized and useless. None of us want that to happen.
Google the term "plain view doctrine". The right to be; the right to see.
MSP "Sarge"
02-12-10, 23:48
I just saw a LEO loose his job and get sued for bending the rules a little. Got to ask yourself is it worth it. W`hat if he found a dead body in the back room in a closet stuffed in a box? He would loose any evidence he just found because the body was not in the scope of the search and by the way the search was illegel. You can't just search someones home because you found some dope in the livingroom on the table because you saw the dope from his front door looking inward (plain sight).
A good friend of mine who is a deputy sheriff woud disagree. He's done many a 'knock and talk' and when he finds something illegal it gives him probable cause to search the whole premise's.
I always think about walking out the back door and around the house to the front to see what the person at the door wants. The way my house is designed the front door is a fatal funnel (no windows and narrow entry way). I dislike walking out of the door because my situational awareness sucks. I would dislike having a LEO at my front door asking to speak to me or come inside even more. I guess I could arrange a meeting at a neutral site "on post" if he wanted to talk.
MSP "Sarge"
02-12-10, 23:51
You are exactly right Doc! Nothing says you have to go along with the program. We all need to now our rights. Some I know go as far to keep a copy of the Constitution on them or close by.
Your sweep has to be limited to only those places where a person could hide.
Closet? Yes
Shoebox? No
Large cabinet? Yes
Big laundry pile? Yes
DVD case? No
MSP "Sarge"
02-13-10, 00:14
So let me get this right. You knock on a front door and you see a small amout of dope on the livingroom coffee table. You bust your way past the kids parents (the kid left it there last night after his partents went to sleep) go in and search the whole house for more dope based soley on your discovory of dope on the livingroom table. You put your hands on the parents because now the govenment has violated their rights. Dad runs for a gun and all hell breaks loose because you found some dope on the table in the livingroom that belonged to their son. At what point are you gonna stop violating someones rights and get a freaking warrant? How about the body you just dicovered in the closet cut up in a bag and emits a foul stench? You will surely loose your dead body and any evidence that was on the body (dna, finger prints ect...). All this could be setteled by seizing the dope, securing the residence and getting a warrant.
You have to use your head in these situation.
I always think about walking out the back door and around the house to the front to see what the person at the door wants. The way my house is designed the front door is a fatal funnel (no windows and narrow entry way). I dislike walking out of the door because my situational awareness sucks. I would dislike having a LEO at my front door asking to speak to me or come inside even more. I guess I could arrange a meeting at a neutral site "on post" if he wanted to talk.
As an Infantryman I completely understand the concept of a fatal funnel. I live in a good neighborhood, but I'm only a few blocks from some seedier areas and I never open my door for anyone unless I have to. I figured out a long time ago when I was a shitbag that you never invite the police in as many of them will take advantage of the situation to the best of their ability since they're counting on you not knowing the law. I've come a long way since those days, but I still won't invite them in, let them search my car, nor will I provide a statement without a lawyer present.
What you do see while legally present (the right to be) can give you PC for a warrant. While waiting for that warrant you can lock the premises down, controlling who comes and goes. Protective sweeps are just that, a cursory sweep for other occupants and threats. The Fourth Amendment protections against search and seizure is not as absolute as many believe, there are many exceptions.
A good friend of mine who is a deputy sheriff woud disagree. He's done many a 'knock and talk' and when he finds something illegal it gives him probable cause to search the whole premise's.
This is just wrong. During a "knock and talk" finding something that is illegal to possess would give you probable cause to obtain a search warrant. It does not give you probable cause to search the entire premises. I think where you are confused is, once an officer obtains consent to search a residence the officer can continue to search unless that person revokes their consent. If consent is revoked and the officer continued to search without a warrant the officer would at a minimum get a few days off and at the most a few years in prison.
That may be how things are done where you operate, but not here. How legal it is I can't say with any sort authority, but it's pretty common for somebody to get rolled up for other stuff due to the fact that an officer saw something in plain view.
I find it offensive that you brand law enforcement where you live as routinely violating people's rights, especially when your entire base of experience is what you have heard from your "friend."
Someome would let a cop in their house without a warrant?
Why?
I always think about walking out the back door and around the house to the front to see what the person at the door wants. The way my house is designed the front door is a fatal funnel (no windows and narrow entry way). I dislike walking out of the door because my situational awareness sucks. I would dislike having a LEO at my front door asking to speak to me or come inside even more. I guess I could arrange a meeting at a neutral site "on post" if he wanted to talk.
A SO knocked on my door at 2 AM, some time ago. I had no way of really determining who was at the front door without going to the door and flipping the lightswitch, which would have put me about half a foot away from him, with a pane of glass between us.
I thought I saw a shoulder patch and a uniform-type jacket, but should I go to the door (a glass door) with a gun in my hand, approaching whom I thought MAY be a police officer?
If he saw me approaching my front door with a gun, could he shoot me through the glass?
I left the gun behind as I approached the door, but that left me completely defenseless.
He had no warrant, so I told him goodnight. But the experience made me consider some things about dealing with the cops.
This happened to me back around November 2009.
I was sitting at home one afternoon and the doorbell rings. Guy standing at the door in kind of "grubby" clothes, two other guys at the bottom of the front door stairs, same sort of attire. Guy has his wallet out, badge showing. Claims to be a cop with a federal/local drug task force and wants to look around the house if it was OK.
I told him no, it was not OK, anyone can buy a badge on the internet, and I have no idea if he is really a policeman. He laughs.
He asks if he can ask me a few questions at the doorstep. I say sure.
He asks me if I had seen a certain car in the neighborhood (yes, the next door neighbor has one like that). A bunch of other similar questions, mostly about this neighbor, his dog, what he looked like, etc. Asks a few questions about my house (which we rent).
He knew my name (though not the name I go by, or at least that I go by my middle name), and I think he knew what I did for a living. Asked if we rented out the basement or if anyone besides me and my wife and kids lived there. I truthfully answered "no" to that. It lasted about 5 minutes.
He seemed satisfied on the answers, gave me his card (he was DEA as was one of the other guys, the other guy was a local), said if I saw this car to phone him, then he and the other guys went to the other house, looked in the trash cans for that house, and went and knocked on the door. No one seemed to be home.
They spent the rest of the day out on the street in front of the house, more or less securing it. I went out back later to grill something for dinner and noticed two guys in the backyard abutting this neighboring house (we have a fence around our yard but this neighboring house does not -- his back abutting neighbor, with no fence in between, happens to be a cop in a nearby cities gang dept). I noticed a bunch of SUVs and other vehicles parked on the street all afternoon. As I left at 6pm (now dark), I saw a bunch of guys get out of a vehicle and go knock on the door.
After that the house was empty for weeks. Where I go to church there is a local cop who is on the drug task force "undercover" so a few weeks ago I went and asked him about what they found at that house. He was not in on that action that day but said it had been a drug distribution point run by some mexicans. Where they packaged the drugs in balloons for distribution out to the street sellers downtown.
Kind of unnerving experience. The cops obviously had done some homework on me (and I run eguns.com so have lots of parts in my basement etc which made me nervous as depending on who the cop is they could claim the gun parts as PC) and it almost was if they were not sure exactly what house they wanted, only knew it was one on this street (they basically said that IIRC) and were thinking maybe I was there guy. But in retrospect I think they knew I wasn't but wanted to make sure the operation was not bigger than they thought. I started to remember a few strange vehicles on the street the previous few days, though they could have had nothing to do with it.
Anyway, I did not let the guys in to look around. I kind of made a joke about it to break the ice so they would not grow suspicious about my refusal.
DragonDoc - complicated question. The 4th Amendment guarantees your rights against unreasonable (specifically warrant-less) search and seizure, but there are several legal precedents which govern exactly what's "reasonable."
The courts hold that people should have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" in certain places (won't get into that, it'll bog us down); with the home or place of residence being relatively inviolate. However, if you CONSENT to a search of an area where you have REP, then anything LE finds is fair game.
The question here is, what's an honest, un-coerced consent. That's why we pay lawyers and judges big money - to figure those things out given the circumstances of any given search.
Of course, once you open the door, even if you don't let the LEO into the house, anything that he can see from his position outside your residence now becomes fair game under the "plain sight" doctrine.
However, I, personally, have never used a "knock and talk" to scope out a possible target house - if I'm going to be kicking in your door, I don't want you to know I know you exist! The knock & talks that I've done have been more in canvassing for possible witnesses to crimes, and/or to identify the residents in the immediate vicinity of a crime. Of course, I'm a federal guy, and haven't had the privilege to serve as a local or state LEO, so my experience may be atypical.
Regards,
Kevin
Could have ended the thread right there. Well done.
Inside the house, when given permission to enter, is a mine field regardless of what people tell you. Letter of the law and intent of the law come into play here as well as interpretation of the law AND case law. Thus, in a word, complicated as Kevin astutely pointed out.
Personally, I've seen plain sight items in a house I was inside for reasons other than that and have left it alone. Establishing ownership etc. comes into play in those circumstances. Not to mention I'd rather them have said items at their house and not on the road. I made verbal note of it and told them exactly that. "keep it at home".
Could also be a tactical disadvantage to stir shit up in someones castle unnecessarily.
Not too mention explaining why you ended up on a drug call when you were working a theft case and thus left your theft investigation to arrest someone over some shake.
In a word, yet again, complicated.
"search" "consent" "plain sight" all things that are still to this day being hammered out in courts. Our guidelines change often for all of these things.
when i was younger and living just outside LA i got a "knock" but there was no talk... at least at first. me a 3 friends were sitting in the living room around 2am watching tv and i hear a knock at the door. theres no peep so i open it to find 4 officers guns drawn... i get a snap kick to the chest and drug by my shirt into the living room with a gun to my head. my 2 female room mates get covered by one of the officers while myself and my male room mate take a nice friendly beating... then after they had their fun they start talking about what to charge us with and how they could make it stick... my room mate ended up beaten and bruised and i end up spending a couple days in west valley detention center on some trumped up charge that just ends up getting dropped.
ever since then if the doorbell rings after midnight and i do answer it, its gun in hand... force of habit...
Question.
Would having a perimeter fence limit any of this? For example, with a gate and a "ring bell" setup? Or does LE have the "right" to push through any such gate/fence if not locked to get to the front door. What if that device was locked, with an intercom and buzzer system like on a jewelry store door?
Reason I ask is, if you were of the drug-dealing type and were prone to leaving something out on a table and the window blinds open, I would assume that an officer simply walking up to the door to "knock & talk" could see that and use it as probable cause for a warrant? The fence/gate could presumably limit that access?
Hopefully it is obvious that I'm not asking this out of personal need, just a curiosity that came to mind reading through the thread.
Question.
Would having a perimeter fence limit any of this? For example, with a gate and a "ring bell" setup? Or does LE have the "right" to push through any such gate/fence if not locked to get to the front door. What if that device was locked, with an intercom and buzzer system like on a jewelry store door?
Reason I ask is, if you were of the drug-dealing type and were prone to leaving something out on a table and the window blinds open, I would assume that an officer simply walking up to the door to "knock & talk" could see that and use it as probable cause for a warrant? The fence/gate could presumably limit that access?
Hopefully it is obvious that I'm not asking this out of personal need, just a curiosity that came to mind reading through the thread.
Police have the right to go anywhere the general public can go. An unlocked gate with a doorbell wouldn't prevent the Jehovah's Witnesses from knocking on your door nor would it the police. Locked gate with a doorbell is another story, police would have to wait outside the gate just like anyone else.
Kentucky Cop
02-13-10, 21:51
****WITH DRAWING MY COMMENTS DUE TO THREAD DERAILMENT*****
This here thread is starting to go down the "cops are dirty and and trigger/taser happy and they beat me path". It seemed liked a good topic but I knew deep down it would not last long. Let's talk KT's and not add all the extra comments. Good luck LEO's/MSP Sarge etc.
Ky Cop
Cascades236
02-13-10, 22:03
The "my buddy is a cop and he says " posts should come with a grain of salt
You're right in that I may be confused on my facts or maybe I even misunderstood something I was told. I know more than one law enforcement officer in this area and the agencys they work for range from city police to deputy sheriffs to US Marshalls. My dealings with the guys I know and a few I don't have been positive. The local PD in the large metropolitan area I live in have a reputation. Some of them a very good guys and they all do a thankless and treacherous job, but stories abound of people being run roughshod over and I even heard firsthand from my old company commander brag about being considered a high risk employee due to the number of altercations and complaint he's had. There is very much a sense of ' I'm better than you and I can do what I want because I'm a cop' attitude around here. No one I know wants to have any interaction under any circumstances with most law enforcement around here because of this. I've heard enough firsthand accounts from average ordinary citizens to make me wary. I don't mean to imply they're all bad, because I know they're not. But I also believe there's a lot of officers around here that have no business being in law enforcement.
This is just wrong. During a "knock and talk" finding something that is illegal to possess would give you probable cause to obtain a search warrant. It does not give you probable cause to search the entire premises. I think where you are confused is, once an officer obtains consent to search a residence the officer can continue to search unless that person revokes their consent. If consent is revoked and the officer continued to search without a warrant the officer would at a minimum get a few days off and at the most a few years in prison.
I find it offensive that you brand law enforcement where you live as routinely violating people's rights, especially when your entire base of experience is what you have heard from your "friend."
I have a question in regards to this that I want to throw out there as well:
It meshes with a conversation I had at work last night with a local Sherif's Deputy regarding the varied response I would receive from his co-workers if they were called out to respond to shot's fired on legal State land while target shooting with an AR. That conversation is for a different thread, but I assume you can guess the possible differences in officer responses.
I am not one to blatantly trust LE, and I don't think that every officer has pure intentions, or is always capable of following the law when conducting their jobs. I have seen more rights violations by police officers then I care to remember, and some of them have led to lawsuits, and firings.
In regards to this subject I like to assume that everyone on this forum is reading this information as responsible citizens, and that the reason for DragonDoc's question was more in regards to how such tactics may effect the average citizen, rather then the hollowed out drug house down the road. I for one am happy as hell to know that an officer at any time could walk up to my house and find nothing in plain site, or with a warrant that would get me in trouble. But what Eguns brought up is a good point. I own several firearms, and he sells firearms. How will this effect us opening the door to "talk"?
How are officers trained to respond to the possibility that upon arrival to the house the individual inside may have a side arm on, or a firearm in plain sight? I have lived in LE trigger happy taser happy communities, and I cringe at the thought of such an incident occurring. What would your response as an LE be if you came knocking on a door in an apartment complex and when the person opened they had an AR leaning against a wall? What about a pistol on their hip, or in their hand? I ask this because I have lived in bad neighborhoods where things like Eguns mentioned have happened.
i agree as well that there are good and bad people in any agency. i get to work with allot of really cool LEOs quite often and have made some really good friends... but unfortunately in my case early on i just happened to be abused by an gang of the bad ones. now that i live in the north west i dont see that kind of brutality as regularly as i did in and around LA. but for a long time after we were beaten, when an officer came to my door (and they did regularly in our neighborhood for many of the reasons mentioned above) i would fight myself not to just run... even though i knew i hadn't broken any laws and that they were probably just there to ask about the neighborhood.
up here in WA when an seattle pd officer knocks on your door its easy to open up and say hello. but back home when your in Inglewood and a lenox cop is banging his flashlight on the bars over your front door it doesnt quite inspire the same kind of emotion. if you know what i mean.
Interesting thread. I would go out of my way to help an LEO in just about every situation with the exception of entering my house without a warrant. I am a law abiding citizen and don't feel the need to prove that "I have nothing to hide".
The 4th and 5th Amendments protect you in a lot of situations where you may not know the implications of what you're saying or something you're admitting to. Just because you don't see the harm in something and didn't know there was a law against it doesn't make it not illegal and you will be treated accordingly. If you do not exercise your rights they will be taken away from you.
But what Eguns brought up is a good point. I own several firearms, and he sells firearms. How will this effect us opening the door to "talk"?
Just accessories and parts, don't sell actual firearms, but yeah, it was running through my mind as there are always a bunch of boxes in the front hall that have not been brought to the storeroom. I did not want anything to be a PC for further action and I was trying to think on my feet
I ask this because I have lived in bad neighborhoods where things like Eguns mentioned have happened.
This is a pretty reasonable family safe neighborhood, but with lots of rental houses because the neighborhood was basically bought up by California speculators a few years ago as they built it. Being a good family oriented neighborhood is probably why the mexican drug distributors rented a house and set up shop. To draw as little attention as possible to themselves. It certainly was not on my radar. (And a lot of cops, various local PD, sheriffs officers, and a few feds live here)
My point is that this sort of thing can happen to anyone in any neighborhood.
This is a pretty reasonable family safe neighborhood, but with lots of rental houses because the neighborhood was basically bought up by California speculators a few years ago as they built it. Being a good family oriented neighborhood is probably why the mexican drug distributors rented a house and set up shop. To draw as little attention as possible to themselves. It certainly was not on my radar. (And a lot of cops, various local PD, sheriffs officers, and a few feds live here)
My point is that this sort of thing can happen to anyone in any neighborhood.
Wasn't trying to question your neighborhood by any means, and if I came off as such I apologize. Your right it can happen anywhere. One of the reasons I left the West Coast was because I saw Meth move into so many wonderful communities that I was really getting sick of seeing it destroy so many great things.
As for me I've spent the last 7 years in college, and in my undergraduate degree I lived in a house that wasn't in the best neighborhood. I have also, and still do, live on the border of bad neighborhoods. I've moved around a lot, and I agree with you that it can happen anywhere, but that is because my thought is that there isn't any such thing as a "good neighborhood". Life is full of un-seen variables that can pop up anywhere.
Wasn't trying to question your neighborhood by any means, and if I came off as such I apologize. Your right it can happen anywhere. One of the reasons I left the West Coast was because I saw Meth move into so many wonderful communities that I was really getting sick of seeing it destroy so many great things.
No need to apologize. I did not take it as a slam against my neighborhood. You did not know what sort of area I live in and it sounded to me an assumption was made that was reasonable based on the info. No problemo here.
I just wanted to emphasize to the thread in general that this sort of thing happens everywhere, not just to the hollowed out drug house across the tracks.
Living amongst the college crowd in a town where the police love to take advantage of clueless college students I've learned to be very wary of knocks on the door. I always use a peep sight on the door and don't open it unless I absolutely know and trust the person I see. Any cop that knocks gets a very stern and clear "get a warrant" through the door. Especially when out with friends. Gotta keep everything locked because for some reason the police open your unlocked door and barge in without warning in this town like a party is assumed to be public. It's how they always break down parties around here. I give police the same amount of trust that I give anyone else I don't know and that is none. I dont even do illegal things. But you never know what people are carrying on themselves or how they're going to react while intoxicated around police. It's about my rights and my safety.
So for parties it's invite only, checked before entering, windows covered and doors locked. Not to mention cars all parked legally and no exceedingly loud music or yelling. All supplies bought and delivered before hand as well. All it takes is one underage person somehow making it in or some idiot bringing narcotics. I like it so that I can handle the troublemakers before the police end up being involved.
But really, in towns that don't suck I've never had to take these precautions. Probably 95%+ towns have good cops who do their jobs well and don't prey on the dumb young adults we are when in college. I dont mean disrespect to police either. These precautions if anything make their jobs easier. I mean everyone was an early 20s nut sometime in their life.
What previous posters have said has confirmed what I've always thought it to be. If you're going to do drugs or something its probably not the best idea to leave them in view from windows or just entering your doorway. Best to just not have or do anything illegal.:/ I haven't myself but I have had friends go through things similar to what 252actual went through and while the likelihood of that happening to me is slim, I refuse to take chances.
John_Wayne777
02-14-10, 00:12
The "my buddy is a cop and he says " posts should come with a grain of salt
...a ginormous bucket of salt.
...I was wondering if some of the LEOs on the thread could share their experience and views on knock and talk...
Great tool. It's helped shed light on many cases (not all of them drug related).
Doesn't mean LE is necessarily there with the purpose to enter the house either; it could just be a quick chit chat on the porch for follow up / investigative purposes (ie - confirm a photo of a possible suspect, canvas the area after a major incident for leads/tips, etc). It all depends on what the "mission" is...
I always think about walking out the back door and around the house to the front to see what the person at the door wants. The way my house is designed the front door is a fatal funnel (no windows and narrow entry way). I dislike walking out of the door because my situational awareness sucks. I would dislike having a LEO at my front door asking to speak to me or come inside even more. I guess I could arrange a meeting at a neutral site "on post" if he wanted to talk.
What's your beef w/ LE?
Seem a little paraniod to me.
A SO knocked on my door at 2 AM, some time ago. I had no way of really determining who was at the front door without going to the door and flipping the lightswitch, which would have put me about half a foot away from him, with a pane of glass between us.
I thought I saw a shoulder patch and a uniform-type jacket, but should I go to the door (a glass door) with a gun in my hand, approaching whom I thought MAY be a police officer?
If he saw me approaching my front door with a gun, could he shoot me through the glass?
I left the gun behind as I approached the door, but that left me completely defenseless.
He had no warrant, so I told him goodnight. But the experience made me consider some things about dealing with the cops.
Yep, those cops are the bad guys. Silly me for thinking otherwise.
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