Any suggestions for a fellow who cannot attend formal training

[billclodude]

I'm new here, and am wrestling with a training quandary. Due to both my family situation and lack of local training courses, I have not been able to get formal training. I'm looking for reputable sources of training materials that I can use to improve my skills.

I have not been able to find local training that I can attend, and travel to a regional trainer is basically out of the question, so I need ideas for things that I can do at the range/home. I'm lucky if I can get one range session a month for 2-3 hours. I am a stay at home Dad with a toddler to take care of so range time is severely restricted. When the wife is home she wants to have family time, so I only grudgingly get range time at all. :( The wife is very much not on board with the idea of my taking even a whole day off to travel somewhere to train, let alone a 2-5 day course (of course the large cost is a factor as well).

There is a range about an hour away that has some training - they have some pistol work (IDPA) in the evening, but between my wife's weird work schedule and tending to a toddler, it's not possible. They also have the NTI study group, but frankly they're way ahead of me, and when I used to associate with them (mid-late '90s), I just didn't fit into their clique. I'm at what I would consider experienced beginner with inadequate sense of tactics. :)

I prefer to shoot carbine, but realistically I suspect a pistol would be more likely to be used in real life. I've gotten a decent amount of practice over the years, and am reasonably accurate, but I'm sure I have picked up bad habits as well. Not having a in person critic of my shooting is a real handicap to improving my skills.

I have/shoot various AR-15 configurations, as well as a Glock 19 pistol.

I'd be interested in hearing any ideas to help me improve my skills. I live in south-Central PA state, near the MD border.

[Shawn.L]

there is no good substitute that I know of for high quality formal training.

although you are not as far from training oppertunity as you think, pm inbound.

sounds like you need a good basic course.

and if you are home most of the day, and protecting your family is the main consideration, then a carbine course would be very fitting.

how many guns do you own ?

[rob_s]

First, read. Become a student of the history of training. Start with books from Jeff Cooper, anything from Cooper, and go forward. Bill Jordan, Chuck Taylor, etc. right up to modern trainers like Paul Howe and Jeff Gonzales. Some are better writers than others, so be prepared. Some also learned their writing style in the military, so be prepared for that as well.

Second, if given a limited training time and budget, forget the carbine. Truth of the matter is it's the gun on your hip that you need to be worried about. Put your limited range-time focus there. Start with fundamentals of marksmanship. You cannot unlearn or undo bad habits you pick up from jumping into the deep end of the pool. I tell you this from my own personal experience because it's something I'm wrestling with right now myself.

Third (and this really should be first, but it goes hand-in-hand with first) mindset is everything. I can promise you that if someone is threatening me and mine, I don't care if all I have is the coffee cup and computer screen in front of me, I will find a way to end that mother****er. I am SHOCKED that the passengers on the plane with the underwear bomber allowed him to live to see the ground. None of the men on that flight must have been flying with a wife and child.

Finally, prevention is everything else, and goes with mindset. With the right mindset you'll remember to lock the doors regardless of how nice your neighborhood is. With the right mindset you'll avoid the ATM machine in the bad part of town at 3 AM. With the right mindset you'll keep your gas tank on your car above half-full at all times because you don't want to run out at the wrong time. The list goes on and on. Learn to listen to your instincts and not let political correctness do you in. I had a friend that was robbed at gunpoint by three teenagers that he saw coming from across the large open parking lot of a college campus. He didn't divert and didn't change his path because he dismissed his Spidey-sense as being racism against the poor disadvantaged youths that nearly shot him 5 minutes later.

[billclodude]

how many guns do you own ?

A G-19 pistol, several AR15s of various configurations, an AR in 6.8 SPC, and a broke-down Marlin .22 rifle. :)

[billclodude]

Finally, prevention is everything else, and goes with mindset. With the right mindset you'll remember to lock the doors regardless of how nice your neighborhood is. With the right mindset you'll avoid the ATM machine in the bad part of town at 3 AM. With the right mindset you'll keep your gas tank on your car above half-full at all times because you don't want to run out at the wrong time. The list goes on and on. Learn to listen to your instincts and not let political correctness do you in. I had a friend that was robbed at gunpoint by three teenagers that he saw coming from across the large open parking lot of a college campus. He didn't divert and didn't change his path because he dismissed his Spidey-sense as being racism against the poor disadvantaged youths that nearly shot him 5 minutes later.

I think I have a good handle on the prevention/avoidance thing; I've always been one to go about in Condition Yellow at least. I've had people ask my wife if I am a cop before they found out what my profession was. Not so much anymore as I've mellowed with age. :)

Of course the wife is the typical female who thinks that because nothing bad has happened yet, nothing will, and so why take X or Y extra precautions. I think she thinks I'm uptight about that - but damn, it's my job to keep her and the kid safe, so belittle my efforts? <sigh>

[Jay Cunningham]

I think she thinks I'm uptight about that - but damn, it's my job to keep her and the kid safe, so belittle my efforts? <sigh>

Have you ever actually explained this part to her?

[M4arc]

If you can't get to formal training but can make it to the range for an hour or so each week use these drills to improve your skills: http://pistol-training.com/drills

[Submariner]

I figured out a few years ago that I'm not smart enough and don't shoot enough to be proficient (for me) with more than one platform at a time. I find that I can keep the same level of skill with two platforms if I alternate with them, but that I'll be at about 75% of proficient with either gun.

From The SIMP Principal and how it applies to me. (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31641&highlight=%22simp%22) Also read The SIMP Principal. (http://pistol-training.com/archives/70)

Determine what you really want to do and how much you are willing to pay to do it.


A G-19 pistol, several AR15s of various configurations, an AR in 6.8 SPC, and a broke-down Marlin .22 rifle. :)

Define "several." If dollars are an issue, sell a carbine or two and get in a pistol class with a good trainer. Training requires feedback to identify (and correct) the bad habits you have acquired. Perfect practice makes permanent. Knowledge/skill beat gear every time. Use proceeds from sales to buy something your wife wants, if necessary. Leave yourself two carbines, if possible, but focus on the pistol first.

[Shawn.L]

If dollars are an issue, sell a carbine or two and get in a class with a good trainer. Use proceeds to buy something your wife wants, if necessary. Leave yourself two.

Read The SIMP Principal. (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31641&highlight=%22simp%22)

my thoughts exactly.

and if childcare/time is an issue use that $$$ to pay for a baysitter for the weekend.

IMO the only way to truly judge one priorities is through their actions.

I sold a gun to take my first class, and it was a life changing experiance. One of the best decisions I ever made in regards to my personal safety and the safety of my family.

[parker7777]

email sent.

[Ash Hess]

While no substitute for actual training, the reading, dvd's and most importantly a friend will do wonders. I am sure there is someone close to you that could link up once in awhile. If you cant find someone, get in touch with me.
Keep in mind, dryfire can be done at home for free. If your wife is like mine you will get "the look" for having an AR hanging off the sling while doing something with the young'un but it is worth it. That will increase the value of your limited range time. Dryfire positions, and say 2 simple drills. Then go to range and perfect those drills and move on. Eventually you will get to a class if you want to. Until then, use your imagination.
I have dropped many a beenie baby and killed a tree printing various reduced sized targets. I aint scared to say I dryfire. My neighbors all know I do it also lol.

[RWK]

If dollars are an issue, sell a carbine or two and get in a pistol class with a good trainer... Use proceeds from sales to buy something your wife wants, if necessary.

Best advice so far...

[Irish]

I haven't seen the Magpul handgun DVD but it might have some useful information and drills for you to check out, the original carbine did. The usual disclaimers of you're better off getting qualified, professional training apply but I'm trying to offer something that fits into your obviously packed schedule.

For some very valuable information on the carbine I would suggest reading Kyle Lamb's book Green Eyes & Black Rifles. Best of luck!

[billclodude]

Guys,

Money isn't a huge issue for me - I can afford a reasonably priced course plus ammo if I budget for it awhile in advance, so selling a rifle to pay for it is not necessary.

Time to do so is the largest hurdle, and the second is overcoming wifely bullshit. :)

I'm not going to go into all the reasons I cannot travel far or stay away overnight, etc on a public forum. I just simply cannot at this time. I had hoped for more useful ideas, but I'll take what I've gotten so far and work with that. Thanks.

[rob_s]

I'm not sure what else you wanted to hear. Many of us offered up options having nothing to do with selling a gun or guns.

My advice, and maybe something you don't want to hear, is to take charge of the situation at home. I couldn't live in an environment where not only was the need for defensive tools and training not recognized, but ridiculed and derided. Is there no instinct in her to protect her cub(s)?

I got my lady to take a Ladies Only two day handgun course and it helped get her on the same page immensely.

[rainman]

You may want to look into an NRA-sponsored Woman On Target (WOT) class for the wife.

WOT are one-day courses designed to teach woman the fundamentals and get them on the range as fast as possible, in a fun and friendly atmosphere. That might help make the wife more comfortable.

Other suggestions for drills, etc., are good. Dry firing can be very helpful. I've also heard that Magpul has a handgun DVD...their "Art of the Tactical Carbine" DVDs are certainly good.

Good luck.


-Rainman

[Vinh]

I guess you've run out of options then.

There is simply no substitute for high volume reps and live fire after being trained correctly.

I suppose you could dry fire, but what if you're holding the gun the wrong way the whole time? Pictures of the correct grip are available everywhere, but few are able to do it correctly. Many revert back to their former styles after the first shot or a reload. I'm not saying you don't know how to hold a gun, but let's face it, every male thinks of himself as a decent, accurate shooter.

As for books, I didn't have them when I first started out, so I can only share my perspective from much later on in my development. They're good for reinforcing mindset during downtime, and offer different perspectives on various training aspects that can be compared against prior training. Also a good refresher if a prior instructor wrote the book. Same with DVDs. No clue as to their effectiveness for bringing a person without formal training up to speed.

Good luck!

[Submariner]

I'm not going to go into all the reasons I cannot travel far or stay away overnight, etc on a public forum

Bring a trainer to your range, providing him with a bunch of paying shooters, and you can probably train for free and be home every night.


I had hoped for more useful ideas, but I'll take what I've gotten so far and work with that. Thanks.

Did you think folks here were going to tell you that self-training was okey dokey?

[wes007]

Time to do so is the largest hurdle, and the second is overcoming wifely bullshit. :)

I'm not going to go into all the reasons I cannot travel far or stay away overnight, etc on a public forum. I just simply cannot at this time. I had hoped for more useful ideas, but I'll take what I've gotten so far and work with that. Thanks.

I understand where you are coming from with the issue of time, but just about everything that the experts have mentioned in this thread is about as good as its gonna get without any range time/training.
I'm a full time student working on my degree in mech engineering so obviously my time is very very limited during the course of the year. With that said, keep educating yourself. Never stop reading, never stop watching, never stop researching, and always stay logged into this site
I understand how hard it is to even get to the range on weekends but correct dry fire practice can be just as effective. Like rob_s said learn the basic fundamentals of marksmanship before anything and go from there

[RWBlue]

Some things can be accomplished at home.
Some things probably need to be taught at a range with a professional.

Getting professional training has always been an issue for me. When I have the money, I don't have time. When I have the time, I don't have money.
I have not been impressed with some of the professional training I have received. My CCW class is a perfect example. I needed to know the laws. But most of the class time (and all the range time) was setup for people who had very limited gun handling experience.

There were a few guys at a range I use to frequent who helped me with regular bench, standard positions, and safari shooting. This VERY informal training has helped.

Trying to think out of the box.
I bought the videos from Coopers old group. I can not remember the name. They were ok. I picked up a few pointers/ideas.

I read what Cooper had to say. The more I read, the more I think he was a wind bag, with very few new ideas, but he did bring up old ideas I wasn't thinking about.

There were a couple of other good writters. I think it was Adobe (sp?) who had some good writting. I think it was Swarez(sp?) who professes the virtues of the Glocks and AKs. His writtings are good. His forum is not great.

Have you considered practicing at home with an airsoft pistol? This would be tactical training. Pieing the corners of your house and shooting the cat/dog/plant.

Have you considered shooting an air rifle in the basement, garage, ....anywhere you can setup a decent back stop? This is non-tactical training. Don't pie the corners, don't shoot the cat, dog, plant.

There is of course dry firing.

I would also suggest something to help your marriage. A friend with a great marriage does this. Every week, there is a date night, a night off for him to go out with the guys or do something for himself, and a night for his wife to go do something for her self. On the date night, they hire a sitter. On his night, she stays at home with the kids. On her night, he stays at home with the kids. IF my friend wants to do something where it will be several nights away doing guy time, he saves up his nights and has guy time.

[billclodude]

I'm not sure what else you wanted to hear. Many of us offered up options having nothing to do with selling a gun or guns.


I was looking for alternatives to the standard answer of "take some classes, spend big bucks on ammo and train your ass off". :) I just cannot fit that into my schedule/lifestyle at this point, much as it would be the best option in an ideal universe.



Did you think folks here were going to tell you that self-training was okey dokey?

No, I expected basically what I got from most posters. I guess it was a mistake to ask help from guys who have the time, money, and opportunity to train their asses off. :( If I were single, and making great money, sure, great, I'd travel and take several classes a year, but that isn't happening. Being a put upon family guy with no income really blows you know? :)

I think this thread has about run it's course. :)

[Business_Casual]

If I could do nothing more than go to the range for one hour once every few weeks I would do one thing and one thing at a time.

For me, I would set up a B-8 center at 25 yards and drill 100 rounds into the black. Not that they would all hit the black, but that would be my goal. Once I was able to do say 25 rounds into the black on demand (regardless of cold, tired, hungry, angry, etc.) I would move on to strong hand only.

Then weak hand only.

That should last you about a year or two, and by then perhaps your situation will change and you can attend formal training.

M_P