View Full Version : colt vs. colt
papavillars
02-15-10, 21:20
which would you rather have a 6920 or a 6520 and why.
The difference between them is barrel profile and upper receiver. I would buy the one that meets my needs for weight and optics.
The best of both worlds is the 6720, due out soon.
The difference between them is barrel profile and upper receiver. I would buy the one that meets my needs for weight and optics.
The best of both worlds is the 6720, due out soon.
agree ;)
Yep, Clyde Armory Colt 6720.
http://colt6720.com/
http://colt6720.com/images/stories/content_images/gunside.jpg
Kentucky Cop
06-10-10, 14:08
Has anyone purchased a 6720 yet? I am very interested in this platform. As we are always learning on here, can someone briefly explain to me the benefits and differences of the 6720 to the 6920? I am tired of waiting on another rifle to hit the shelves and may try to grab this one. It will be used for patrol. I do like how it is just over 6 lbs.
Little confused about it. :confused:
Ky Cop
EDIT- Just talked to Clyde Armory. He basically said its a lighter version of the 6920 with a pencil barrel on it. He also said that he thinks some of the other parts may be "milled" to drop weight. He claimed that they are selling a bunch and do have a LEO price on it. Good customer service. Still would like to know what some of the other gun guys on here think about it. It seems very appealing for a patrol rifle. Comes with 2 Pmags also.
which would you rather have a 6920 or a 6520 and why.
6920. As I understand it, the 6520 has an A2 style upper receiver, which is a no-sale for me. Then I would have to use one of those funky looking above-the-carry-handle mounts if I want to use an optic. I much prefer the flat-top railed receivers.
Stretz Tactical Inc
06-10-10, 17:26
Is that a "pencil" barrel? I'm not a fan of thin barrels. In my experience, there not as accurate.
A few yrs. back I took one of my 6520s and swapped the stock A2 for a BCM m4 flattop for IIRc $98.....and poof, optics ready 6520:D
The 6520 is no doubt in my top 3 all time and imho, there is no better stock config'd gun than a 6520.
The pencil profiled l.w. barrel is very much accurate for what it is....just ask Molon:) Considering I am not allowed to own a m203, I think I can forgo the barrel that has been specifically cut for that feature.
If you are a bone stock kinda of guy, than for sure the 6520.
If you like to mod your ARs.....6920 would be the better bet.
Wow...first dupe on m4c...my apologies...tried to add a pic of the 6520 w. swapped upper rec.
http://i48.tinypic.com/315223o.jpg
Has anyone purchased a 6720 yet? I am very interested in this platform. As we are always learning on here, can someone briefly explain to me the benefits and differences of the 6720 to the 6920? I am tired of waiting on another rifle to hit the shelves and may try to grab this one. It will be used for patrol. I do like how it is just over 6 lbs.
Little confused about it. :confused:
Ky Cop
EDIT- Just talked to Clyde Armory. He basically said its a lighter version of the 6920 with a pencil barrel on it. He also said that he thinks some of the other parts may be "milled" to drop weight. He claimed that they are selling a bunch and do have a LEO price on it. Good customer service. Still would like to know what some of the other gun guys on here think about it. It seems very appealing for a patrol rifle. Comes with 2 Pmags also.
I like mine very much, and it's my new working gun. I haven't been nice to it at all. When I get my head above water on a couple of things, I'll get the write-up done that I've been meaning to post.
In the interim, buy one. The AR6720 is GTG, and so is Clyde Armory.
made my own :D
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/AR/PWA6520A3005.jpg
made my own :D
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/AR/PWA6520A3005.jpg
Damn that one smokes mine:D Excellent Job!
I love the 6520...however, I love the 6520's barrel even more:D
emfourbinator
06-11-10, 12:45
To the OP....it's apples and oranges, really. Looks like you'll just have
to get both. Everyone else does!:)
Teaser...
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Colt%20AR6720/6e2aed76.jpg
The Colt 6720 is great. Lightweight, fast-handling and pretty solid right out of the box.
The only changes I made:
Swapped in a full MOE kit (handguard, grip, and stock), and swapped the Matech flip BUIS for a LaRue fixed BUIS.
Gained 2 oz. in weight, but the quality tradeoff is worth it.
I'm running the rifle as a backup with irons only. It's my current favorite KISS rifle.
The only potential upgrade would be to shorten the barrel to 14.7" and PA a better comp/hider.
Will get some pics.
Agreed on the 6720. Wish it'd been around when I bought my 6920.
Is that a "pencil" barrel? I'm not a fan of thin barrels. In my experience, there not as accurate.
I'd go for the 6920... thin barrels warp more when hot... so your first shot accuracy is good... later shots might be in the next county.
The weight savings just arent worth it in my opinion... hell.. a full size M16 is a light gun... I've marched a few miles with one and I'm still alive... and if you don't have to carry one all day a few ounces don't matter anyway...
A pencil bbl is like a truck without 4wd... should be banned...
I'd go for the 6920... thin barrels warp more when hot... so your first shot accuracy is good... later shots might be in the next county.
The weight savings just arent worth it in my opinion... hell.. a full size M16 is a light gun... I've marched a few miles with one and I'm still alive... and if you don't have to carry one all day a few ounces don't matter anyway...
A pencil bbl is like a truck without 4wd... should be banned...
Really........After many yrs. I have FINALLY found someone who not only doesn't love the colt pencil profile l.w barrel but thinks it should be outright done away with:eek:
I am afraid to say that Colt happens to disagree.....and my bet is that they will make it as long as they keep their doors open:)
I'd go for the 6920... thin barrels warp more when hot... so your first shot accuracy is good... later shots might be in the next county.
Increased potential for deviations as a result of barrel heating are well within acceptable ranges for the roles that these guns perform. The LW is not a match or precision gun. Nor is it a Mini-14 either, notorious for its inconsistency when hot.
I'd be interested to see someone quantify the difference in accuracy between a hot 6920 and 6720 to see what it actually is. I bet it's negligble, especially for a fighting gun.
The weight savings just arent worth it in my opinion... hell.. a full size M16 is a light gun... I've marched a few miles with one and I'm still alive... and if you don't have to carry one all day a few ounces don't matter anyway...
Mission drives the gear.
IBOs, smaller statured shooters, lady and youth shooters, tend to favor LWs pretty consistently. As do a few knuckle dragging ogres like me. My prior working gun, a 6920, was pretty easy to carry and work with. It's replacement, the 6720, is more easily handled one handed, in improvised positons, and moving around, all for longer periods.
Magic_Salad0892
06-12-10, 03:55
The barrel is the weakest part of any rifle design. It doesn't make any sense to me to weaken it even more.
If I were going light, I'd shorten the barrel, and reduce weight elsewhere.
I find that claims regarding the "weakness" or "inaccuracy" of the so-called "pencil" barrels tend to be a pretty good indicator of the level of competency, knowledge, and experience of the claimant.
YMMV
The barrel is the weakest part of any rifle design. It doesn't make any sense to me to weaken it even more.
If I were going light, I'd shorten the barrel, and reduce weight elsewhere.
Is this supposed to taken seriously....not trying to be rude but I really am wowed by the above.
How is it that firstly, COLT missed the memo on l.w. pencil profiling "WEAKENS" a barrel and accuracy to such a high degree.
Secondly, is KAC stupid for reducing that much barrel mass when they dimple certain barrels on their guns OR when they designed arguable the hottest gun in the market..the SR-15s with basically the same barrel that we are discussing..(L.W. pencil profiled)?
Thirdly, Why do you think so many folks send their money and barrels to ADCO or similar type smith..only to receive a WEAKENED barrel in return.....with your statement, contouring, re-profiling, fluting, and dimpling WILL ONLY HURT OR WEAKEN YOUR BARREL....
I commend you for taking on folks like Colt, KAC, ADCO or anybody who reduces mass on their barrels....but I do not think you know something those industry professionals do not and hopefully one of the more tech types will come in here and lay the hard data down....if it had been done already, I have a feeling I would not be responding to this statement at all...cause it prob. would not exist:)
Really........After many yrs. I have FINALLY found someone who not only doesn't love the colt pencil profile l.w barrel but thinks it should be outright done away with:eek:
I am afraid to say that Colt happens to disagree.....and my bet is that they will make it as long as they keep their doors open:)
Some instuctor from SOTIC told me that... not "my" opinion... personally I have never handled a thin bbl (hmm...wonder why they're so rare... ;) ) but I trust my bro's analysis ;)
Seems to me that the mil want's the lightest possible... if pencil profile was free from issues, it would be the mil standard... but it ain't.
Some instuctor from SOTIC told me that... not "my" opinion... personally I have never handled a thin bbl (hmm...wonder why they're so rare... ;) ) but I trust my bro's analysis ;)
Seems to me that the mil want's the lightest possible... if pencil profile was free from issues, it would be the mil standard... but it ain't.
What a round-about, deflective, back-peddling, nonsensical way of defending an already half-baked comment.
Some instuctor from SOTIC told me that... not "my" opinion... personally I have never handled a thin bbl (hmm...wonder why they're so rare... ;) ) but I trust my bro's analysis ;)
Seems to me that the mil want's the lightest possible... if pencil profile was free from issues, it would be the mil standard... but it ain't.
That is a very telling statement you make there with respect to colt 6520's being RARE....not so much. The only rare thing might be your experience around diff. ARs. Its also obvious you are not LE or you would know how popular they are among dept. guns.
Those secretive guys at Langley tend to like them as well from my understanding.
I will leave it at this....since we are in a TECH FORUM, and you make the statement above regarding the 6520 not being the mil standard due to FLAWS....you should actually try and provide us with those Military tests that showed you these so called flaws that you keep referring to. I wont hold my breath because these tests did not happen and the 6520 was developed mainly for LE, whereas the 6920 was developed for the MIL. But hey, who heck needs facts and sources when making a statement in regards to TECH issues such as these flaws you refer.
Whenever you find one respected professional in the industry (or the evidence to support the military passing them over because of flaws) that can name even one real flaw with the barrel, please inform me and just about everyone else in the AR world so that we can see that the overwhelmingly popular 6520 barrel is truly fatally flawed.
This is an example of TECH material...(factual data about the colt 6520 barrel.)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=486023
....and the stuff you might want to provide in the future when making claims of actual flaws or whatever within TECH forums. Anyway I will bow out based on my total confidence the 6520 barrel is not only not flawed but a true bread winner..and so I guess we just agree to disagree pal:)
dude asked for an OPINION... I gave an opinion.:rolleyes:
on second thought... get the pencil bbl... with less bbl steel...you can mount more useless crap on your rifle.
CaptainDooley
06-12-10, 16:10
ESPECIALLY in a tech forum, this is true of opinions:
http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/14401/73895.html
The topic is WEIGHT dude.... weight is SUBJECTIVE;) .... get over it.
MY opinion stands, and is perfectly valid being that I have carried a rifle for a living.
The accuracy opinion was given to me by the ex top dude at SOTIC... I'd say his opinion is very valid as well...
I'm out, argue amongst yourselves.
Magic_Salad0892
06-14-10, 02:42
Is this supposed to taken seriously....not trying to be rude but I really am wowed by the above.
I hope I didn't offend you, maybe I am stupid, in that case teach me - but let me ask for a little feedback:
When I say ''weakest part of the design'':
Remember the videos posted about the M4 vs. M4A1 barrel profile (where they were full auto fired until failure)? And how the heavy barrel heated up until the GAS SYSTEM melted? On the other gun the barrel failed first?
Now I'm not saying we're going to be putting a thousand rounds downrange in full auto, what I'm saying is that the barrel - that part that absorbs most of the heat from discharge could use all the mass it can get to retain rigidity, and therefore durability and accuracy. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think pencil barrels are wrong, or bad. I think they are redundant.
Also there is a handling problem. I notice it on my KAC 11.5'' that when I shoot it fast, it heats up fast, and it gets uncomfortable to hold. I could see this being a problem in a real world scenario. Not for me, but for a soldier, cop, etc.
Another thing that I don't like about pencil profiles (and this may be just me) is that when I'm changing target I sometimes (more often than not) go past my intended target, and have to go back. (Farther reach out onto the rail mitigates this to an extent.)
Pencil barrels sometimes result in a rear heavy carbine, it may be my piston preference but I prefer the center of balance to be either just over the magazine well, or right over the barrel. I like it that way.
Feedback would be appreciated. Please don't take my earlier comment as an attack.
curmudgeon9
06-15-10, 03:24
I'm mostly a bench shooter .....bought the Colt Model 6721 (hbar) ...... wouldn't trade it for any of the others for that purpose.
Beat Trash
06-16-10, 13:19
I own both. I have owned my 6520 for years.
For me the main difference was the balance between the two guns. I notice the balance more than the actual weight difference between the two guns.
The 6520 felt good when moving around buildings ect. it was the gun that kept me company during riots in 2001.
The 6920 felt more muzzle heavy and not as quick to point as the 6520. But the muzzle heaviness was better for me when shooting at any distance.
I have now spent so much time with the 6920's that I prefer their balance to my 6520. My girlfriend (never shot an AR - yet...) prefers the 6520's weight and balance. I may swap out the upper to make a flat top gun out of it. But then, I may just leave this 6520 (it's a pre-ban gun, still has the older 2 position stock) as is and buy a 6720.
I don't shoot enough rapid fire strings to be concerned about the thin vs. m4 profile barrel diameter.
Kentucky Cop
06-30-10, 13:31
So from a LEO standpoint, which rifle would be "better" for patrol work. 6920 or the 6720? They seem to be the exact same rifle but one with a pencil L/W barrel.
Does this really just come down to personal preference? You would think to start out with the lighter of the two and add your accessories.
KC
TriumphRat675
06-30-10, 15:03
Remember the videos posted about the M4 vs. M4A1 barrel profile (where they were full auto fired until failure)? And how the heavy barrel heated up until the GAS SYSTEM melted? On the other gun the barrel failed first?
This concern is not relevant for the uses any civilian shooter could possibly have for these guns. I would imagine it is not relevant for 99% of cops or your average soldier, either.
As for the faceshooters, SCARs have skinny barrels. That might be a clue.
When will you put 900 rounds downrange in anything less than two days of training? and why would you?
The skinny barrel is not "redundant." if anything, the heavier GI profile ones are because they have excess, unnecessary material.
If I did not own an 6920 already I would be all over the Clyde Armory gun.
Men took pencil barrels into combat for the first 30 years of the AR15's existance and everything went fine.
So from a LEO standpoint, which rifle would be "better" for patrol work. 6920 or the 6720? They seem to be the exact same rifle but one with a pencil L/W barrel.
Does this really just come down to personal preference? You would think to start out with the lighter of the two and add your accessories. KC
I switched out my 6920 for a 6720. In various deployments of it in the days that followed, I was glad to have a lighter gun. Not lighter by much, but lighter nonetheless.
There is no liability in the LW barrels for LE ops.
This concern is not relevant for the uses any civilian shooter could possibly have for these guns. I would imagine it is not relevant for 99% of cops or your average soldier, either...
...When will you put 900 rounds downrange in anything less than two days of training? and why would you?
The skinny barrel is not "redundant." if anything, the heavier GI profile ones are because they have excess, unnecessary material.
For what it's worth, I put many more than 900rds through mine in far less time. Unnecessary accelerated wear, but demonstrative of the fallacy of arguments against LW barrels. Especially for the civ and LE end user.
FWIW, the 6920's barrel is only thicker from the gas block to the muzzle, even it's skinny under the handguards.
I like the pencil barrels just fine, heres a 6520 barrel and a 6530 barrel that I stuck in flat top uppers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/TOM64/19.jpg
eternal24k
06-30-10, 19:30
got so caught up reading this thread I had to double check the URL to make sure I wasn't on the other site :rolleyes:
The rebound of the light weight as a growing trend is no coincidence, they serve a purpose and I for one am going skinny on my last AR build, I would not hesitate to recommend a LW made by a reputable manufacturer any day, most "issues" are non-existent for semi auto ARs and so-long as the end user isn't expecting a varmint 1/4MOA all day paper killer, we are good.
5.56 Psycho
06-30-10, 22:51
I love the 6920's. If I had to carry all day and not worry about a firefight, 6720 for sure. 6920 for everything else. It's beefy
Obviously the lighter the contour, the less stiff a barrel. Obviously fluting, etc. will weaken the barrel. A major problem of many makers of fluted barrels is that it is fluted after the bore is finished, often inducing stress and inconsistency. Obviously the less massive a barrel, the more quickly it heats.
HOWEVER, on an AR15 or other combat-type rifle, does one need a stiff, precision barrel? Absolutely not! The difference is moot. Lightening up a barrel via lighter contour will not affect the practical accuracy of the firearm. If it turns a 1.5 MOA carbine into a 1.75 MOA carbine, will it suddenly not perform? Absolutely not. The trend is toward lighter barrels (in semi-automatic carbines) because they are faster, handier, and lighter. Another advantage to a less massive barrel is that, just as it heats faster, it also cools faster.
If you're shooting benchrest or F-Class, then you want a Jeep axle barrel to squeeze out as many shots before it heats up, as well as the stiffest barrel you can get for maximum accuracy where thousands of an inch matter. For blasting, however, it does not.
ETA:
This is where he may be getting some of his theory from--Tactical Operations has proven to be revolutionary, building bolt-action precision rifles with shorter, thicker barrels to reduce weight and maintain accuracy rather than reducing contours or adding flutes. Check out the articles.
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/
Magic_Salad0892
07-03-10, 14:20
This concern is not relevant for the uses any civilian shooter could possibly have for these guns. I would imagine it is not relevant for 99% of cops or your average soldier, either.
As for the faceshooters, SCARs have skinny barrels. That might be a clue.
When will you put 900 rounds downrange in anything less than two days of training? and why would you?
The skinny barrel is not "redundant." if anything, the heavier GI profile ones are because they have excess, unnecessary material.
If I did not own an 6920 already I would be all over the Clyde Armory gun.
A - I mentioned that nobody would see the failure point of their barrel in a firefight due to sustained fire already. Read my post.
B - They bailed on the SCAR-L (I remember reading one issue was heat from the barrel to the polymer handguard.), and the SCAR-H has a heavy profile (IIRC).
If you want to mention the SCAR PM me. I don't want to derail the topic. Sorry.
got so caught up reading this thread I had to double check the URL to make sure I wasn't on the other site :rolleyes:
Ain't that the truth !
:cool:
spamsammich
07-03-10, 16:06
The topic is WEIGHT dude.... weight is SUBJECTIVE;) .... get over it.
MY opinion stands, and is perfectly valid being that I have carried a rifle for a living.
The accuracy opinion was given to me by the ex top dude at SOTIC... I'd say his opinion is very valid as well...
I'm out, argue amongst yourselves.
So your opinion is valid?
personally I have never handled a thin bbl (hmm...wonder why they're so rare... ) but I trust my bro's analysis
I really try to be tolerant, but this shit doesn't fly on this site. How about you stay in your lane and comment on only things you have direct experience with?
Carry piece, and you're not using it as a target rifle or sniper application??....get the 6520LE and enjoy
the sweetest little Carbine around. Some will moan about the fixed carry handle. The presence of a
flat-top will only encourage you to load it up with enough top hamper and optics to sink a small ship.
I just love the lightness and simplicity that goes with this piece! :)
thefryzone
10-31-10, 09:47
Really........After many yrs. I have FINALLY found someone who not only doesn't love the colt pencil profile l.w barrel but thinks it should be outright done away with:eek:
I am afraid to say that Colt happens to disagree.....and my bet is that they will make it as long as they keep their doors open:)
They is correct. I have 1 SP1 and have owned atleast 6. All my lightweight barrel's have a shift in POI. after they heat up. Most about 1" but a couple were 2" - 2.5" at 100 yrds. I still love my LW's because I am small. If the public want's LW's Colt will provide if it is in the best finacial intrest for the company.
mechanicus
01-20-11, 15:20
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