View Full Version : Let's talk suppressors...
I am in the market for a suppressor for my 16" Stag/DSA and a integral 10-22 rifle. I had a chance to visit Gemtech at the SHOT show but this is all I have ever seen.
What do guys like or recommend?
I'm going with the Ops 15th model for my SBR which you are welcome to shoot when it comes in. I believe it offers the best balance of;
-least amount added to OAL
-secure mounting system
-noise reduction (although all the major players are virtually identical)
-weight
-cost
I wish that Gemtech made something similar/competitive as I think they are a fantastic company with amazing customer service. AAC makes a model that I think may very closely rival, if not be even better than, the 15th model but I'd prefer not to deal with them based largely on their web presence on various foums over the years.
As far as I'm concerned, if Gemtech makes a version of a can that will suit my needs I'll buy from them based solely on how helpful they've been to me and others over the years. If you liked their integral 10/22 buy it, you won't deal with a better company.
Don't get an integral 10-22. Get a muzzle .22 can.
For the AR I would go with OPS, Surefire, or AAC. Out of these, one of them will have a model with the features and price that will work for you.
Derek_Connor
04-09-07, 16:57
I'm going with the Ops 15th model for my SBR which you are welcome to shoot when it comes in. I believe it offers the best balance of;
-least amount added to OAL
-secure mounting system
-noise reduction (although all the major players are virtually identical)
-weight
-cost
I wish that Gemtech made something similar/competitive as I think they are a fantastic company with amazing customer service. AAC makes a model that I think may very closely rival, if not be even better than, the 15th model but I'd prefer not to deal with them based largely on their web presence on various foums over the years.
As far as I'm concerned, if Gemtech makes a version of a can that will suit my needs I'll buy from them based solely on how helpful they've been to me and others over the years. If you liked their integral 10/22 buy it, you won't deal with a better company.
couldn't agree with you more on all counts...I'd vote 15th
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4895/receiptforconnorderek8nkl8.jpg
SinnFéinM1911
04-09-07, 17:00
Also you need to look at:
-Reliability
-Duribility
-Repeatibility (or as close to it)
These three are probally the most important. Follwoing that very closely is (as said above) is OAL increase then to db reduction and weight. Then you shold look at the life of the can being used and how they affect the kentics (is copper build up, wieght increase due to hard to clean areas).
The AAC model I was referring to is the SCAR-SD.
Rob, don't you have a Halo now? Besides the mounting system, what is the difference between the G5 and the Halo?
Also, any opinions of john's Guns units
Rob, don't you have a Halo now? Besides the mounting system, what is the difference between the G5 and the Halo?
No, the only can I currently own is a Gemtech Outback II for the .22LR, and the Ops can that's sitting at my dealer waiting for the ATF paperwork to clear.
AFAIK the Halo and G5 are the same can with different mounting systems.
Can someone tell me about the pros and cons to the different attachment methods?
I see a 5.56 can in future. If possible/smart I would like it to have some kind of QD ability so it is easier to put in a gun case and because I have more than one AR.
I have a 2 SWR screw on cans in 22lr and 45ACP.
I have a Gemtech HVT 308 Bilock (sp?) on the way.
Also, any opinions of john's Guns units
I've heard that his integral 77/44 is good. I've only shot a 9mm can that he made. Based on that experience, I won't be buying any of his stuff.
The AAC model I was referring to is the SCAR-SD.
I would rather go with the 416-SD. Rob, have you checked it out? A little lighter, shorter, and better mount IMO. It has the same dB reduction as the SCAR-SD. The SCAR-SD was kept in the lineup for the FN contract AFAIK.
RWBlue: The main benefit of the QD cans are:
Protected crown
Protected threads
Can won't come loose causing baffle strikes
Flash hider/ muzzle break take some wear and tear off of the blast baffle
Flash hider/ muzzle break is in place when can is removed
More predictable POI shift
No crossthreading
I don't know why people make a big deal about the can coming off and on easily.:rolleyes:
I would rather go with the 416-SD. Rob, have you checked it out? A little lighter, shorter, and better mount IMO. It has the same dB reduction as the SCAR-SD. The SCAR-SD was kept in the lineup for the FN contract AFAIK.
That's the one. I was on a computer without access to .pdf files when I wrote that.
One thing that bears mentioning with cans and their measurement of "added length" is that you need to make sure you know where they're taking their measurement from. The AAC measurements are from the tip of the (longer than an A2) flashhider mount.
I would rather go with the 416-SD. Rob, have you checked it out? A little lighter, shorter, and better mount IMO. It has the same dB reduction as the SCAR-SD. The SCAR-SD was kept in the lineup for the FN contract AFAIK.
RWBlue: The main benefit of the QD cans are:
Protected crown
Protected threads
Can won't come loose causing baffle strikes
Flash hider/ muzzle break take some wear and tear off of the blast baffle
Flash hider/ muzzle break is in place when can is removed
More predictable POI shift
No crossthreading
I don't know why people make a big deal about the can coming off and on easily.:rolleyes:
Sorry, I asked the wrong question. I understand the benefits of QD. I don't understand the different methods. Which QD is better?
I bought the Gemtech QD method when I got the 308 can. Since I will only have a couple guns that I will be suppressing, this isn't that big of deal. When I get the 5.56 can, it will be for multiple guns, uppers, so it is more important.
When I buy the 5.56 can, I will need to right flash suppressors on all the 5.56 guns. Gemtech bilock, AAC uses standard A2 flash hider, and there is one that looks like a YHM phantom with larger threads. Which QD is better?
Asking "which QD is better" is alot like asking "which car is better". You're going to get a whole bunch of people weighing in with a whole bunch of opinions with no idea how qualified they are to have those opinions. Then you're going to get some people telling you "don't buy a car, buy a truck".
I would strongly suggest scouring the web looking for other people's write-ups of the cans they've owned and any potential issues they have encountered. I'd also suggest getting your hands on as many different cans as you are able.
QD in general is overrated, but I think that modular-detach is (or at least can be) a good thing. If you want one can to mount on multiple guns (why, I'm really not sure) you can't beat the Gemtech Halo or the AAC Omni as either will attach to an A2 flash suppressor.
I highly recommend the HALO for many of the reasons listed. The A2 flashider works well, and is incorporated on most ARs of current manufacture. As such, you can basically grab your can and go. The benefit of being able to throw the can on more than one upper may not be appreciated unless one was in a situation where the COF was heavy and an upper/rifle went down. Swap the can and get back to shooting.:cool:
[QUOTE=rob_s;47169]Asking "which QD is better" is alot like asking "which car is better". You're going to get a whole bunch of people weighing in with a whole bunch of opinions with no idea how qualified they are to have those opinions. Then you're going to get some people telling you "don't buy a car, buy a truck".
[QUOTE]
I like openions. If you collect enough, there is usually a pattern.
Additionally, if you collect openions early enough, you can figure out who is worth listening to.
If that's the case, then there are easily thousands of opinions on the issue already posted all over the interweb for you to catalog and prioritize.
If that's the case, then there are easily thousands of opinions on the issue already posted all over the interweb for you to catalog and prioritize.
I agree Rob. If you buy a Surefire, Ops Inc., SWR, AAC, KAC, etc. 5.56 can, it will do whatever you need it to. There are tiny nuances that make each can excel at one thing more than the competition.
However, opinions on actual performance on the web are hard to find. There is a ton of behind the scenes bashing, throat cutting, rumor starting, unproven theory advocating, jealousy, fact manipulating, pig wrestling, eye gouging, etc. that every silencer manufacturer is guilty of. That is the way of the suppressor market. That kind of stuff typically leads to incredibly biased reviews and statements. One manufacturer will inevitably rub a form 4 buyer the wrong way, and usually one will rub him the right way.
The one thing that will help you in your choice is to list what features that would make a can the BEST performer for YOU. Now prioritize that list. There will be a can that will fit the bill.
My list differs from host to host and need to need. Since the OP was asking about a can for his 16" Stag, I'll make my list based on that (though if it were me I would get a midlength 16" to suppress).
1. Durability/construction-You're paying $200 to own it forever (all companies provide warranty work, but I want my can to be serviced less often or not at all).
2. Weight- Hanging a can off a 16" barrel makes it very front heavy, I would look into cantilevered lightweight designs.
3. Mount/Reliable POI shift- All cans will produce a POI shift, repeatability of that POI is what I look for.
4. Blowback/Volume-On your carbine length 16", the blowback will be much worse than just about any barrel setup I can think of, once again look to the cantelevered designs.
5. Price/Availability-Once again, you're paying $200 for something that should last your lifetime, "buy once, cry once". It's not one of those things that you can sell easily to get your money back.
They all pretty much sound the same. They all have customer service that you can call on the phone. I reccomend calling them before you buy.
I am most definitely NOT an advocate of buying multi-purpose cans like the HALO/OMNI for a civilian. I think that they are great for military contracts where cans are being delivered in the field for Joe to slap on his M4, but I find them to compromise too much. My take for civilians is: If you have 10 weapons of the same caliber that you want to be able suppress with 1 can, then you have enough cash to buy a damn mount for each rifle.
SinnFéinM1911
04-12-07, 14:40
That's the one. I was on a computer without access to .pdf files when I wrote that.
One thing that bears mentioning with cans and their measurement of "added length" is that you need to make sure you know where they're taking their measurement from. The AAC measurements are from the tip of the (longer than an A2) flashhider mount.
You should really measure from the end of the bbl, Company's Flask Hider differ in size. You have to see the added length of the system as a whole, leaving the vaibles out.
You should really measure from the end of the bbl, Company's Flask Hider differ in size. You have to see the added length of the system as a whole, leaving the vaibles out.
Exactly.
I like the first comment Rob made regarding what he won't accept in a suppressor- the tactics the company used at any time to promote or push their products forward.
I'm not basing this on rumor- I'm basing this on private emails and messages that went between a major promoter of a somewhat 'major' company and myself.
How many people run KAC Cans? Are they worth the High Price fo them?
Robb Jensen
04-30-07, 04:39
How many people run KAC Cans? Are they worth the High Price fo them?
A little heavy and a little louder but damn great suppressors.
Derek_Connor
04-30-07, 07:14
A little heavy and a little louder but damn great suppressors.
I have one coming into my SOT here in a bit, i'll get a reivew up
A little heavy and a little louder but damn great suppressors.
A couple of members of this board told me that they've heard the Surefire FA556K and the KAC M4QD side by side. Both were on 10.5" barrels, the Surefire was on a HK416 and the KAC was on a MK18. They said that they sounded the same.
I also have a M4QD NT-4 on the way. KAC said that the newer NT-4 model has twice the service life of the older M4QD. They won't disclose what they changed in the NT-4 model.
The action noise on an AR is pretty loud using hot ammo.
The major makers are all very close to one another in terms of sound suppression of the rounds fired.
QD; isn't. Well, maybe before you've fired 30rds it's worth something....:p
If you are looking at major players in the suppressor world, then you just need to "throw a dart" and buy it.
I don't much care for how AAC comes across on the internet, but they make a really nice can in the M4-1000. Which is basically an older M4-2000 with a little less durable construction. From what I understand, that would only be noticed in full auto shooting.
I really like my YHM .308 Phantoms, but I'm not sure that experience ports over to their 5.56 cans.
I really love SWR's friendliness and service, so I would consider their Spec-War2. Even though it doesn't test as well as the YHM and AAC.
I like the track record of the Ops, Inc stuff in harm's way -- probably can't go wrong there.
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