View Full Version : Surefire or PWS?
FH556SA/FH556-212A or PWS FSC556?
Might run a can much further down the road, but it's not a huge factor right now. Just heard great things about both, any reason to choose one over the other?
The FSC is a great brake and OK flash hider. It creates a tremendous amount of concussion, if that will factor into your usage.
The -212A is a great flash hider and does not provide any real recoil control assistance. It also accepts my favorite suppressors, and does not feel like you are getting head-slapped with a rubber mallet every time you pull the trigger.
They are both good, I used an FSC for a long time with good results but I knew the drawbacks of the brake and had to work around them. I use the -212A now because I worked in exclusively dusty places and the brake would kick up a clod and obscure my vision from time to time with the FSC.
tr1kstanc3
02-19-10, 07:31
The FSC is a great brake and OK flash hider. It creates a tremendous amount of concussion, if that will factor into your usage.
They are both good, I used an FSC for a long time with good results but I knew the drawbacks of the brake and had to work around them.
Other than kicking up alot of dust what other drawbacks did you find when using the FSC?
Other than kicking up alot of dust what other drawbacks did you find when using the FSC?
The shock wave on a SBR knocked my fillings loose...
B
For the 2 you mention, the FH556 really is a flash hider, while the FSC556 is a comp/flash hider combo.
We just did some night stuff and 2 of the comps were the Surefire MB556K and one of the others was the PWS FSC556. IMO, both of these were pretty comparable as for as a compensator goes, with little recognizable difference in muzzle control. While both will annoy shooters to the left or right equally as well, the PWS gives the shooter a considerable amount of felt concussion which annoys the hell out of me. Not something that you cannot deal with but IMO the 5.56 does not have enough recoil issues to warrant the annoying back blast that loves to shoot right up the nasal passages that the PWS makes.
As far as night firing they both sucked and were flame throwers. They just threw a different type of pattern. To be fair the Surefire MB556K was not a flash hider and it did throw a really cool looking firework pattern for onlookers. The PWS did not do well in the flash hiding department either. Actually performed much worse than a standard birdcage. While it really is a compensator, the flash killing ability is very very minimal.
IMO, neither of these would suit my personal needs on a duty weapon as a stand alone item. I would not be inclined to put one on a non duty weapon or even a competition rifle as a stand alone item, but if I had to chose one, it would be the Surefire MB556K over the PWS FSC by a long shot.
Edit - I left out any comments about adding a can to the set up as we didn't run any.
I've used both the Surefire brake and the FSC...I am currently running the FSC. All the old whiny guys at the range hate the concussion and the noise, while I kinda like it :D
For me, the Surefire was a little better about keeping muzzle rise to a minimum (infact almost nonexistent). Both the FSC and the Surefire substantially reduce felt recoil. The only reason I didn't keep the Surefire is the overall length and the "big show" it produces in lowlight.
Don't think you could go wrong with either, really.
just my .02
I run the SF 556K MB. The ONLY reason why I would ever run a brake is if I was shooting a suppressor or lived in a state that required it.
So if you are going to get the SF can, go with their brake as it acts like a baffle and creates less wear on the can.
C4
Any advice for a brake that minimizes the negative aspects for those of us in AWB states? I don't care how effective it would be as a brake, more interested in minimizing noise, concussion, etc. Some flash hiding capability would be nice.
Any advice for a brake that minimizes the negative aspects for those of us in AWB states? I don't care how effective it would be as a brake, more interested in minimizing noise, concussion, etc. Some flash hiding capability would be nice.
The VLTOR is a good hybrid I think.
C4
Cagemonkey
02-21-10, 14:43
Any advice for a brake that minimizes the negative aspects for those of us in AWB states? I don't care how effective it would be as a brake, more interested in minimizing noise, concussion, etc. Some flash hiding capability would be nice.If you look at the PWS website, they have a ATF letter stating the FSC556 is not a flash hiding device. Rainier Arms makes a brake that is very similar. The Vltor compensator that Grant mentioned would probably fool most onlookers. Technically to be AWB compliant, the muzzle device must be a brake and not have flashhiding qualities.
I wonder how the new AAC Blackout flash hider/comp will compare?
Spooky
I'm running a PWS FSC556 on my Colt 6933. I shoot at an indoor range with glass on both sides of me and I don't get the concussion that some complain about while shooting SBRs. To me, it sounds no different than my 16 rifles with A2 FH. I'm pretty sure those in the lanes next to me are affected because one couple packed up their shit and left and I got dirty looks from the other guy in the next lane. I took it to an outdoor range Saturday and did not get any strange looks. My wife said it sounded the same as my 16" BCM middy with A2.
BufordTJustice
02-23-10, 18:12
I'm running a PWS FSC556 on my Colt 6933. I shoot at an indoor range with glass on both sides of me and I don't get the concussion that some complain about while shooting SBRs. To me, it sounds no different than my 16 rifles with A2 FH. I'm pretty sure those in the lanes next to me are affected because one couple packed up their shit and left and I got dirty looks from the other guy in the next lane. I took it to an outdoor range Saturday and did not get any strange looks. My wife said it sounded the same as my 16" BCM middy with A2.
+1
I have a 16" BCM middy that used to have an A2 on it. I now use the PWS FSC556. Not much difference between the two at my indoor range. I have to be honest, fi the difference in concussion is so drastic as to generate discomfort, the quality of the hearing protection being used must be called into question. I used to mix large concerts as a profession before I became an LEO...there is a huge dif between cheap 'ears' and good quality hearing protection. I have no issues at al shooting in narrow lanes w/ full house Fed XM193 ammo at my indoor range. Good muffs and/or good foamies are a sure cure for this issue. I use custom ear molds, but those are too spendy for most folks. I mean no condescension, but if the SF or PWS hurt your ears, you need better ear protection; they are not that much louder than an A2 from the shooting position.
I've also found that the 'enormous concussion' felt to the side of the shooter is no worse to my ears than a SA M1A in .308 with the standard FH...or any other .308 bolt gun. YMMV.
That's weird, EVERYONE around me seems to notice the "annoying" concussion and noise. However, being the shooter and directly behind it, it doesn't seem a whole lot different than the A2.
What worries me is: what would it be like shooting from prone in a dusty environment? What about when your laying on your side trying to shoot under a car?
Then there's the fact that I do use it as a home defense weapon, and do I really wanna discharge it with the FSC installed, let alone discharge it at all? I guess basically is that I'm starting to wonder, does the benefit (reduced muzzle flip/reduced felt recoil) outweigh all the negatives?
BufordTJustice
02-23-10, 19:37
That's weird, EVERYONE around me seems to notice the "annoying" concussion and noise. However, being the shooter and directly behind it, it doesn't seem a whole lot different than the A2.
What worries me is: what would it be like shooting from prone in a dusty environment? What about when your laying on your side trying to shoot under a car?
Then there's the fact that I do use it as a home defense weapon, and do I really wanna discharge it with the FSC installed, let alone discharge it at all? I guess basically is that I'm starting to wonder, does the benefit (reduced muzzle flip/reduced felt recoil) outweigh all the negatives?
All legitimate questions.
The muzzle report of any AR is going to top 160 dBa inside of a house EASY...short barrels (less than 16") could break the 170 barrier...with 10.5s topping out at 174-177 dBa. This is well above the threshold for permanent hearing loss from a single exposure; it's not a question of if...but 'how much'. A muzzle brake/comp MAY add 2-7 dBa to that. What will most likely be more noticeable is the shift in the frequency response of the report...as there will be more bass/midbass frequencies directed toward the shooter. The concussiveness of the report (the 'blast', as it were) is actually found lower in the frequency spectrum (I'd wager 250 Hz and below). The blast of a report would better be measured in dBC (including more bass than dBa measurements), for the record. The muzzle brake may only give an increase of 2-4 dB at 2-4kHz...but it may add 10dB at 100 Hz. You will FEEL the 100Hz tone in your body MUCH more than the 2-4K (which is largely negated by the hearing protection you wear). I think there is more of a frequency shift than a huge net volume gain. This would make a very interesting test; but the dBC scale must be used...not the dBa that most sound tests have used.:rolleyes:
Then there's the fact that I do use it as a home defense weapon, and do I really wanna discharge it with the FSC installed, let alone discharge it at all? I guess basically is that I'm starting to wonder, does the benefit (reduced muzzle flip/reduced felt recoil) outweigh all the negatives?
Believe it or not, you aren't going to notice the noise in high adrenaline self defense situation. The body has what's called auditory exclusion and it will shut down your hearing to some extent. I'm no doctor so I don't know the specifics of it, but I've been inside homes during high adrenaline situations (BG w/gun) where another officer shot his Colt 6933 and another time when a .40cal handgun was shot. I did not have any earpro on and never used it while serving warrants or anytime at work for that matter other than qualification. I did not notice any loud shots or have ringing in my ears afterward. I have spoken to other officers who experienced the same thing and have also read a book about officer involved shootings and all those interviewed mentioned the same experience.
BufordTJustice
02-23-10, 20:04
Believe it or not, you aren't going to notice the noise in high adrenaline self defense situation. The body has what's called auditory exclusion and it will shut down your hearing to some extent. I'm no doctor so I don't know the specifics of it, but I've been inside homes during high adrenaline situations (BG w/gun) where another officer shot his Colt 6933 and another time when a .40cal handgun was shot. I did not have any earpro on and never used it while serving warrants or anytime at work for that matter other than qualification. I did not notice any loud shots or have ringing in my ears afterward. I have spoken to other officers who experienced the same thing and have also read a book about officer involved shootings and all those interviewed mentioned the same experience.
Reddevil makes an extremely good point. Auditory exclusion is not a guarantee, but it does happen very often. I have never been in a situation where it was warranted, but have spoken to others who have experienced it. One remembered the sound of our G21 .45s sounding like distant pops in the living room of a sh*t hole....but he was able to have clear comm with some buddies in the same room with no issues. It's an intriguing phenomenon. Very good point Red.
very good input guys, thanks
The Rainer is a good unit. I have nothing to compare it to other than what was in use years ago for 3 Gun, but it does not seem to be as loud.
I went the PWS route and am pretty happy with it. I have minimal if any muzzle rise. I haven't done any night shooting with so I couldn't say how it would do with muzzle flash.
bullitt5172
02-24-10, 11:41
+1
I have a 16" BCM middy that used to have an A2 on it. I now use the PWS FSC556. Not much difference between the two at my indoor range. I have to be honest, fi the difference in concussion is so drastic as to generate discomfort, the quality of the hearing protection being used must be called into question. I used to mix large concerts as a profession before I became an LEO...there is a huge dif between cheap 'ears' and good quality hearing protection. I have no issues at al shooting in narrow lanes w/ full house Fed XM193 ammo at my indoor range. Good muffs and/or good foamies are a sure cure for this issue. I use custom ear molds, but those are too spendy for most folks. I mean no condescension, but if the SF or PWS hurt your ears, you need better ear protection; they are not that much louder than an A2 from the shooting position.
I've also found that the 'enormous concussion' felt to the side of the shooter is no worse to my ears than a SA M1A in .308 with the standard FH...or any other .308 bolt gun. YMMV.
I have a few of the PWS FSC556 devices and I've never received any complaints in class. They are not as bad as most of the comps/brakes out there...
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