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SHIVAN
02-19-10, 21:26
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/gun-toting-visitors-heading-to-national-parks/19353107

Gun-Toting Visitors Heading to National Parks

Andrea Stone - Senior Washington Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Feb. 18) -- Teddy Roosevelt couldn't bring a gun into
Yellowstone National Park, but soon anyone with a permit will be able
to shoulder a shotgun as they watch Old Faithful erupt.

At Virginia's Wolf Trap National Park for the Performing Arts outside
Washington, summer concertgoers will be able to pack a pistol with
their picnic on the lawn. Along the rim of the Grand Canyon,
rifle-toting visitors will stand next to unarmed tourists from abroad.
And while Civil War re-enactors will still flock with their historic
muskets to the Gettysburg battlefield in Pennsylvania, modern-day
militiamen will be able to retrace Pickett's Charge carrying
modern-day weapons.

A new rule in effect Monday will end nearly a century-old ban on
firearms in America's national parks and wildlife refuges. Visitors
can bring concealed, loaded guns with them on vacation if they are
legal under the laws of the state they are in. Some 40 states allow
people to carry firearms with a permit. The park service Web site will
provide links to state Web sites so visitors can check which rules
apply.

The change passed on a bipartisan vote in May as an amendment to an
Obama administration credit card reform bill. It grew out of changes
sought in the final months by the Bush administration and gun rights
advocates.

"This new rule is welcome," said National Rifle Association spokesman
Andrew Arulanandam. "Violent crimes do occur in our national parks,
which have become havens for drug trafficking and drug production.
It's reasonable for law-abiding people to have the means to protect
themselves from predators, whether it's the four-legged or two-legged
variety."

The Coalition of National Park Service Retirees and the Fraternal
Order of Police lobbied unsuccessfully against the rule change.

"It's a bad idea," the coalition's Bill Wade said. "It's a significant
departure from what the public expects in the national parks. They've
always been a sanctuary where people can go and feel safe."

Violent crimes -- homicide, rape, robbery and aggravated assault --
have been declining for more than a decade in the national parks,
according to FBI statistics. The rate for those crimes in 2008, the
latest figures available, was 0.13 per 100,000 recreational park
visitors. The nationwide crime rate: 454.5 per 100,000.

Even in states where carrying a gun is legal, visitors in all but 40
parks where hunting is permitted will be barred from firing their
weapons.

Guns will still be prohibited inside visitor centers, offices,
maintenance facilities or other buildings where park employees work on
a regular basis. The rules are murkier in hotels, restaurants, gift
shops and other nongovernment facilities run as private concessions on
park property. Park Service spokesman David Barna said that "in
theory," guns could be carried inside those facilities, including
dormitories where young, seasonal employees stay.

"The burden is on the public to not only know state law but know what
state you're in," Barna said. He noted that the Appalachian Trail runs
through nine states from Georgia to Maine and across a patchwork of
attitudes toward guns. Yellowstone sprawls across three states, while
Great Smoky Mountains comes under the laws of Tennessee and North
Carolina.

Park employees are undergoing training on local laws. Barna said some
staff have expressed fears for their safety -- until now, anyone
carrying a weapon could be arrested by park police. But others,
especially staffers in the West, are more comfortable with the idea.
Most, however, "would prefer not to deal with this," he said.

Barna doubts many of the park system's 275 million annual visitors
will come toting heat this summer, when the peak vacation period
begins. But he does expect the first few months under the new rule to
bring "people who want to express their Second Amendment right to bear
arms" and plenty of macho photo ops by park entrance signs.

Even if few park visitors flaunt their firearms, knowing the person
next to your family at an evening campfire or on a ranger-led hike
might have a gun will have a chilling effect, critics say.

"Visitors come to the parks to try to leave behind their day-to-day
worries," said Scot McElveen, president of the Association of National
Park Rangers. "Some of that escapism is from worrying about crime or
guns."

The ban on firearms dates back before 1916, when the national park
system was founded to protect the country's wildlife as much as its
wilderness. Even President Theodore Roosevelt, an avid hunter, wasn't
exempt from the prohibition when he visited Yellowstone, then run by
the army, in 1903.

According to historian Douglas Brinkley's "The Wilderness Warrior:
Theodore Roosevelt and the Crusade for America," the park's
superintendent "issued a stern statement declaring that the
president's gun would be sealed by the U.S. Army when he entered the
park, just as with every other citizen."

"It was a zone dedicated to the preservation of nature," Brinkley told
AOL News. "In the same way that you don't carry a gun to an airport,
there are places where you don't carry a gun in this country, and a
national park is one."

lethal dose
02-19-10, 21:47
To sum up my thoughts: if someone wants to go into a park and light up the place, they're gonna do it. The last thing they're worried about is having a license. The anti gun mindset is one of no logic. Carrying a firearm in a park has no more adverse effect on the preservation of wildlife then does eating a cheese sandwich with tomato, lettuce, and mayonaise. As for endangering visitors or anyone in the u.s., for that matter, does anyone have statistics of how many people have been "endangeted" by legal ccw carriers. Thought so. It's just a power grab. They have no logic behind their reasoning. Want a good laugh?... visit the Brady bunch's website.

David Thomas
02-19-10, 23:28
My chocolate lab could have done a better job writing that article. What an idiot...

vote was 54% for good idea
44% for bad idea
8,486 votes total

Edited to add:
appears as though you can vote in the poll as many times as you want to.

vote is now 53% in favor with 8507 votes...

m4fun
02-19-10, 23:49
Got my vote - this is law, but remember, this is the AOL so the percentage is relating to the folks "left behind"

Hoss356
02-20-10, 01:10
I was expecting a slanted article when I read the headline, not as slanted as I though it would be, but you can still perceive which side the author falls on. But on a different note I went on the Brady website, I'm doing a ongoing series of speeches in college on gun free zones, to look for some good arguments with data backing them up but I couldn't find anything useful. It's no wonder the brady group is loosing followers, they can't make a single decent argument. And who the hell goes to a national park because they want to escape irrational fears?

A-Bear680
02-20-10, 10:42
Vote info:

New rule:
Good; 58% .
Bad: 40%.
N/S: 2% .

Plan to carry:
Yes: 51%.
No: 40&
Rest: don't know or don't go to parks.

Total votes:
9,567 and 9,154.

Jitterbug
02-20-10, 12:07
Being a law abiding citizen I never ventured into Rocky Mountain National or the Colorado National Monument, if I can't legally CCW, I simply don't go.

It's nice to know I can now legally do so.

Andrea Stone is a buffoon.

Alpha Sierra
02-20-10, 17:26
We won. **** them.

FromMyColdDeadHand
02-20-10, 20:25
What's with the comments about rifles? How many states allow open carry of rifles? I know there was that one black guy in the "right wing militia" last year with an AR. Not that I'm against open carry of an AR, I just thought this was about CCW?

Macx
02-20-10, 21:00
It is about CCW or carry . . . but visions of shotguns and black rifles sound scary to the Anti. Think of it as artistic liscense easily defended as "oops, I don't know much about guns because I am too well educated" Andrea Stone continues saying "they are all machine shotguns that can shoot through two schools at a time and have a shoulder thing that goes up. . . right? That is what Carolyn McCarthy told me and she is an expert!"

xfyrfiter
02-21-10, 14:39
Anti's are a bunch of fools.

skyugo
02-21-10, 15:06
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/gun-toting-visitors-heading-to-national-parks/19353107

Gun-Toting Visitors Heading to National Parks

Andrea Stone - Senior Washington Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Feb. 18) -- Teddy Roosevelt couldn't bring a gun into
Yellowstone National Park, but soon anyone with a permit will be able
to shoulder a shotgun as they watch Old Faithful erupt.
................

"It's a bad idea," the coalition's Bill Wade said. "It's a significant
departure from what the public expects in the national parks. They've
always been a sanctuary where people can go and feel safe."




like any proper anti-gun article they open with a lie :D

i love this "feel safe" line too. i really feel great knowing that if somebody starts popping people there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Blowby
02-21-10, 15:14
They got my vote: 65% yes now.

sgalbra76
02-21-10, 15:48
The opinions of park police vary on this issue just as they do with the public. "Most" law enforcement rangers and Park Police are generally pro civilian carry for law biding citizens. As a LEO Ranger for the NPS, I have no problem with this law.

We treat everyone as if they are armed anyhow, and it never surprises us when they are armed. Most of the time I would simply inform them that it was illegal to carry on the Federal property and that would be the end of it. No weapons were siezed, and no citations issued. I've never charged someone with carrying illegally on Fed property unless I was already charging them with something else, and they were already in violation of the state law regarding their carry of the weapon. Basically just a stacking charge for having a bunch of other illegal things going on.

Those that were lawfully carrying according to state law have never been a problem for me......even if I had to arrest them for something else. Poaching is a major problem, but I believe that a weapon ban on Federal lands would have virtually no impact on the activity. Poaching usually goes hand in hand with DUI, drug use, and other activies......so the possession of a firearm is a pretty minor thing.