View Full Version : Quick Q-Noveske Lower
Who makes Noveske Lowers? And doesnt whoever make them also make Stag Lowers?
thx
Who makes Noveske Lowers? And doesnt whoever make them also make Stag Lowers?
thx
stag/CMT makes stag lowers... they make really good lowers, and do really good work for Noveske. :)
spamsammich
02-22-10, 02:56
CMT is among a few vendors that make Noveske lowers. I believe the different series in the serial numbers denotes different vendors.
who are the "best" vendors?
spamsammich
02-22-10, 03:20
Anyone that Noveske chooses to manufacture lowers for them ;) Anything they sell that isn't a "blem" is considered a good lower from my point of view. Noveske invests quite a bit of time and effort in selecting vendors and on QC of incoming and outgoing products. Every company can let some lemons through the process, but Noveske has a reputation for producing high quality kit. Some people get all girly about different roll marks and whatnot, different strokes...
spamsammich
02-22-10, 03:24
Hell, even their blem lowers can be far and away machined to a better standard than a LOT of other big players in this game. I'd put a blem Noveske up against a Colt lower any day of the week and I bet the Noveske will look as good or better.
Ok good info guys. Thank You.
DD is in house right? Along with BCM, MEGA and Larue?
Just to clear up some stuff:
Kaiser Defense is currently making Noveske lowers. Each serial number series is made by a different manufacturer.
The B series was Stag/CMT
The C series was LAR (IIRC)
The E series is Kaiser Defense.
The Magpul series were obviously made by Magpul.
I'm not sure who did the initial numbers-only (first) series.
Also, not that it matters, but the latest series (E-series) are engraved, not stamped.
Anyone have any experience with the C-series lowers? I have a couple of E-series (around E01XXX and E02XXX) lowers that I've had some minor issues with. I was just wondering if they would be worth switching out if I ever ended up with too much money some day.
Who made the original runs? STAG? I have a 000XX receiver.
Belmont31R
07-14-10, 20:11
Anyone have any experience with the C-series lowers? I have a couple of E-series (around E01XXX and E02XXX) lowers that I've had some minor issues with. I was just wondering if they would be worth switching out if I ever ended up with too much money some day.
If there is something wrong with them you should contact Noveske unless they were sold as a blem...but even in that case those are supposed to be cosmetic issues not functional.
I have an E series blem, and there were no obvious blems on mine. The lower works great mechanically. The only thing I could see it being a blem is the finish is a little bit shiny compared to almost all other anodizing. Not sure if thats just a result of the manufacturer being different or if thats why it was a blem.
Noveske now marks their cosmetic lowers with a "C" prefixed serial number. They are marked "C-0001".
How can you tell the difference between "The C series was LAR (IIRC)" lowers and the current "C" marked cosmetic lowers?
Grease Monkey
07-14-10, 22:32
Just to clear up some stuff:
Kaiser Defense is currently making Noveske lowers. Each serial number series is made by a different manufacturer.
The B series was Stag/CMT
The C series was LAR (IIRC)
The E series is Kaiser Defense.
The Magpul series were obviously made by Magpul.
I'm not sure who did the initial numbers-only (first) series.
Also, not that it matters, but the latest series (E-series) are engraved, not stamped.
I think the first lowers were done in house if I'm not mistaken.
there on H now. TIGHT fit on all parts. put in a cmt parts kit :suicide2:
ADCTD2SHOOTING
07-14-10, 23:53
By that thinking you would also have to say that GM/Chevy build the corvette and also built the chevette. Same company much different standard of quality.
That being said most lowers by most companies ive seen and used are functionally fine. (FUNCTIONALLY)
Cosmetics are nice if you dont plan to use the crap out of the rifle.
Cosmetics didn't matter to me on the last ar I put together as it will be bouncing around in the trunk of my car till I retire and the majority of it is Noveske.
If I had more money all of it would be Noveske or BCM.
As long as it is to proper spec and it runs right all the time everytime then enjoy it.
My Noveske lower does not have a letter anywhere on the serial number... The first number is a 0.
Jeremy
I would like to say...
The reason for purchasing from a company with a top reputation is that they ensure you are getting top quality parts. So if Noveske is using Continental Machine Tool to makes its lowers, that is fine with me because I know they will be certain everything is up to standards and beyond.
I really don't care who made it. I just find it funny that Stag is looked down on as lower quality and Noveske is at the top when CMT makes alot of the parts for Noveske. It seems people equate quality with what the roll mark looks like.
Jeremy
Complication
07-15-10, 11:39
Todd.K (https://www.m4carbine.net/member.php?u=520) works for Noveske and lurks around the forums some, might be worth shooting him a PM.
I really don't care who made it. I just find it funny that Stag is looked down on as lower quality and Noveske is at the top when CMT makes alot of the parts for Noveske. It seems people equate quality with what the roll mark looks like.
When you see someone at the shooting range who can't get his new/nearly new Stag to cycle, you might change your opinion.
In my line of work, I often hear claims from sub-par manufacturers how their product is just as good as the expensive one. But it is not. A Hyuandai is not a Mercedes, or even a Toyota, or even a Chevy.
Belmont31R
07-15-10, 12:14
I really don't care who made it. I just find it funny that Stag is looked down on as lower quality and Noveske is at the top when CMT makes alot of the parts for Noveske. It seems people equate quality with what the roll mark looks like.
Jeremy
Noveske makes a good barrel, and the rest is average. Their BCG is not as good as BCM, Colt, or DD. Like LaRue they use a blue insert even on carbines which is supposed to be black.
Cincinnatus
07-15-10, 12:17
You can tell a Noveske blem by looking at the shelf inside behind the trigger, hammer/disconnector, the shelf where you would stick an accuwedge if you needed one, the blems have a big "2" marked there.
Grease Monkey
07-15-10, 12:18
Noveske makes a good barrel, and the rest is average. Their BCG is not as good as BCM, Colt, or DD. Like LaRue they use a blue insert even on carbines which is supposed to be black.
Get a BCM extractor upgrade kit. You'll need spares anyway. Well, if you shoot frequently. I know that's not the point but it's an easy upgrade to bring it up to par.
Noveske makes a good barrel, and the rest is average. Their BCG is not as good as BCM, Colt, or DD. Like LaRue they use a blue insert even on carbines which is supposed to be black.
====================
So, because Noveske doesn't upgrade a part that probably costs less than 5¢, their BCG's are not as good? Those cheap jerks. :)
I asked Noveske about the 'insert" before I bought a gun from them and was told they found their rifles didn't need the black insert.
I know that they want their guns to be reliable (and they are reliable), so if they thought their rifles needed the black insert, don't you think they would spend the 5¢ and put one in?
Also, I was told Noveske rejects about 40+% of the receivers that come in because of cosmetics. If Noveske uses CMT (or LAR or Kaiser), and rejects such a large percentage, do you think these companies reject 40% of their own receivers before they put them in their own guns? Most probably not. And this is dealing with just cosmetics, I wonder how many are rejected because of fit or machining or whatever.
I think this "culling" of parts is one reason Noveske's cost more and are held in high regard. I know there are a lot of quality rifles being made BUT there is a lot of junk being made too.
But maybe it's just me...
Complication
07-15-10, 15:14
====================
So, because Noveske doesn't upgrade a part that probably costs less than 5¢, their BCG's are not as good? Those cheap bastards.:)
To be fair (according to The Chart) Noveske also batch HPTs their bolts whereas (according to The Chart) Colt, BCM, and DD HPTs every bolt. So it's somewhat more than just a 5¢ part...
That said, I think there's a certain level of quality after which the answer to "Which one's the best" becomes "You can't go wrong with any of them." And I think Noveske has a level of quality past that level.
And if HPTesting every bolt is what does it for you, then you can always buy a Noveske and then toss a BCM, Colt, or DD BCG in it (or just buy a complete DD, BCM, Colt).
Noveske makes a good barrel, and the rest is average. Their BCG is not as good as BCM, Colt, or DD. Like LaRue they use a blue insert even on carbines which is supposed to be black.
Re the blue insert: I called Noveske and asked about this awhile back since I had (on advice from someone here) removed the O ring from my 16" N4 upper. They explained the overall balance of the entire system is what's important - not the color of the specific parts. Also, there a differences in the weights of the O rings.
I reinstalled the O ring, btw - I've never had a malfunction with it installed and did have (just) one without it. Each way has ~500 rounds fired.
And FWIW - a spare bolt I recently bought from Noveske has a black insert. I was disappointed about that since it was destined for my 18" SPR build. After some function checks I swapped it out for a new BCM bolt I had on hand - the tension on the BCM seemed not so tight.
You can tell a Noveske blem by looking at the shelf inside behind the trigger, hammer/disconnector, the shelf where you would stick an accuwedge if you needed one, the blems have a big "2" marked there.
I was wrong on the "C" prefix for a cosmetic lower. Sorry about that.
When you see someone at the shooting range who can't get his new/nearly new Stag to cycle, you might change your opinion.
In my line of work, I often hear claims from sub-par manufacturers how their product is just as good as the expensive one. But it is not. A Hyuandai is not a Mercedes, or even a Toyota, or even a Chevy.
it isn't? how dare you...;)
Noveske makes a good barrel, and the rest is average. Their BCG is not as good as BCM, Colt, or DD. Like LaRue they use a blue insert even on carbines which is supposed to be black.
interesting observation.
can you name a few other "average" weapons to compare to so there's no confusion ? We wouldnt want Noveske' Owners thinking their guns are better than they really are :p
I bought a Noveske 16" LoPro Recce a couple of months ago. The extractor had a black O ring installed. Noveske may have found that as far as the function and durability of the O ring are concerned that it doesn't make that big a difference which one's used, if at all.
I also have a Noveske blem lower with the 2 stamped on the inside. SN starts with a C.
Scoby
Cincinnatus
07-15-10, 18:31
I bought a Noveske 16" LoPro Recce a couple of months ago. The extractor had a black O ring installed. Noveske may have found that as far as the function and durability of the O ring are concerned that it doesn't make that big a difference which one's used, if at all.
I also have a Noveske blem lower with the 2 stamped on the inside. SN starts with a C.
Scoby
It's not the O-ring that's blue in theirs, it's the extractor insert.
Which Noveske rifles are we talking about? I don't believe a mid-length gas system is in need of the black insert.
When you see someone at the shooting range who can't get his new/nearly new Stag to cycle, you might change your opinion.
In my line of work, I often hear claims from sub-par manufacturers how their product is just as good as the expensive one. But it is not. A Hyuandai is not a Mercedes, or even a Toyota, or even a Chevy.
I agree with you except that a Hyundai isnt as good as Chevy. Maybe not 10 years ago, but they have really stepped up their game recently.
BTW Im not a Hyundai guy, Im a Subaru fanboy:jester:
On topic... My Noveske has run fine. I only have a few hundred rounds through it so far, but its been mostly cheap Tula crap.
It's not the O-ring that's blue in theirs, it's the extractor insert.
It's black as well.
Scoby
Speaking of Noveske. New lightweight stainless. :)
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=16nst-556&cat=104&page=1&search=&since=&status=
We are actually changing the extractor buffer to black but it's totally irrelevant with an Oring.
The spring being stronger is more important that the buffer color in a carbine.
rifle spring+blue=fail
rifle spring+black=fail
carbine spring+blue=better
carbine spring+black=good
rifle spring+blue/black+Oring=good
carbine spring+black+Oring=can be too much
Blue buffer and Oring in action. http://www.noveske.com/videos/shot3.wmv
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