View Full Version : 14.5 carbine or 14.5 middy?
I need some advise and wisdom from the experts here. This will be my first AR and will be used as a patrol rifle. I understand about the loss of velocity w/ a 14.5 (doubtful I will ever take a shot more than 50 to 100 yrs as I work in a very urban enviroment) and what a PITA having a perm. flash hider is (having dd lite 7.0 or 9.0 installed when I order the rifle). Due to the tight spaces I may have to deploy the rifle, I sure I want the 14.5.
All that said I'm unsure if I want a 14.5 carbine or a 14.5 middy. I've tried to research the topic, but seems like I get conflicting results. I've read that the dwell on a 14.5" midlength is about the same as a 12.5" carbine, and that is plenty enough of barrel length after the gas port for reliability purposes and then I've read that on a 14.5 there is not enough barrel after the gas port for the system to draw off enough gas before the bullet exits the barrel which is the same problem with the 18 middy.
Which gas system is more correct? Does one have more advantages than the other? Your advice is greatly appreciated!
Robb Jensen
04-12-07, 03:58
I asked Randall at www.ar15barrels.com about cutting down a middy and having gas port work done on it (so it'll still work even in winter) and he said that he wouldn't shorten it shorter than either 13.25" or 13.75" I can't remember which.
Either way a 14.5" middy would work great. John Noveske offers this in his barrels in the 14.5" Afghan (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/detail.cgi?domain=noveskerifleworks.com&item_id=afghan1). If it's an option for you I would use a middy over a carbine gas system. If I had to use a carbine gas system I'd either buy a 12.5" Noveske barrel (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/detail.cgi?domain=noveskerifleworks.com&item_id=crusaderbarrel) or have a 14.5" or 16" cut to that length w/gas port work, it would be a very handy short AR.
I am a HUGE fan of the 14.5" midlength barrel. Having a fixed flash suppressor (for non NFA stuff) can be a bit annoying, but, with rails out like the Samson, Troy, new ARM's CV SIR, and others, its not really that big of a deal any more.
I have been extremely happy with my 14.5 mid. Balances great and has a very unique recoil impulse that lends itself to quite accurate yet fast shots.
I agree with Hawkeye. I own both the carbine and mid-length in 14.5" but much prefer the midlength. Both have been reliable.
my 14.5 middy is the cats meow, Its all I shot now
Turbo Supra
04-13-07, 14:39
In the process of my first Middy build right now! I'll post pics when she is done. Here are the goodies so far. My workbench is cluttered. :D
CMMG 14.5" lightweight mid-length barrel
YHM Phantom 5C1 hider
Mega upper receiver
Mega lower w/CMT LPK
Mega billet charging handle
Badger Ordnance Gen 2 Tac-Latch
Young Mfg. chrome BCG
Ambi selector lever
LaRue 9.0 FF forend
LaRue ACOG mount
TA31RCO-M4 ACOG
YHM rear flip-up sight
Vltor Carbine Modstock, OD green
Vltor single-point sling mount
Vltor Scout light mount
Surefire G2, OD green
Tangodown Battlegrip, OD green
Tangodown VFG, OD green
Magpul ladders and rail panels, OD green
NE Tactical single-point sling, OD green
Whew! :p
I appreciate all the advice. I think I'm gonna go with the 14.5 Middy. That sounds like a sweet rifle Turbo.
Maybe a stupid question, but any of you guys w/ after market rails and a perm. flash hider have problems cleaning under your rails? Thanks for the help, don't mean to be such a FNG!
I've been trying to decide what to do about a carbine or mid-length myself. I want to get a mid-length but there isn't any top quality companys making middy uppers. The only companys as far as I can tell that have all top quality features I want is Colt, LMT, and BCM. I don't want to pay for a Colt rifle for what they go for, not to mention they dont make any mid-length rifle. I'd love to get a BCM middy upper but they have been backordered forever and I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to purchase one.
The other thing I've considered is getting a LMT but the problem is they dont make middy uppers. I'm can't decide if I should just buy the LMT upper and buy a middy barrel and gastube and get it installed as soon as I buy it or just go with the carbine gas system. Is having the midlength gas system that much better than having a carbine system in that it would justify me spending more money to by a mid-length barrel and having it installed by the person I purchase it from?
I've been trying to decide what to do about a carbine or mid-length myself. I want to get a mid-length but there isn't any top quality companys making middy uppers. The only companys as far as I can tell that have all top quality features I want is Colt, LMT, and BCM. I don't want to pay for a Colt rifle for what they go for, not to mention they dont make any mid-length rifle. I'd love to get a BCM middy upper but they have been backordered forever and I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to purchase one.
The other thing I've considered is getting a LMT but the problem is they dont make middy uppers. I'm can't decide if I should just buy the LMT upper and buy a middy barrel and gastube and get it installed as soon as I buy it or just go with the carbine gas system. Is having the midlength gas system that much better than having a carbine system in that it would justify me spending more money to by a mid-length barrel and having it installed by the person I purchase it from?
Sabre is as good as you can get. CMMG is a gnats hair behind them at worst. Just get a complete upper from either of them and you'll be fine.
bullitt5172
04-16-07, 17:40
I've been trying to decide what to do about a carbine or mid-length myself. I want to get a mid-length but there isn't any top quality companys making middy uppers. The only companys as far as I can tell that have all top quality features I want is Colt, LMT, and BCM. I don't want to pay for a Colt rifle for what they go for, not to mention they dont make any mid-length rifle. I'd love to get a BCM middy upper but they have been backordered forever and I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to purchase one.
The other thing I've considered is getting a LMT but the problem is they dont make middy uppers. I'm can't decide if I should just buy the LMT upper and buy a middy barrel and gastube and get it installed as soon as I buy it or just go with the carbine gas system. Is having the midlength gas system that much better than having a carbine system in that it would justify me spending more money to by a mid-length barrel and having it installed by the person I purchase it from?
I guess I didn't realize that CMMG and Sabre Defence are not top quality ;)
I love my Colt but it doesn't do anything the CMMG or Sabre Defence AR's won't do. I'm in the process of picking a CMMG middy right now.
I guess I didn't realize that CMMG and Sabre Defence are not top quality ;)
I love my Colt but it doesn't do anything the CMMG or Sabre Defence AR's won't do. I'm in the process of picking a CMMG middy right now.
Not sure about CMMG but I know Sabre doesnt do m4 cuts so it isn't top quality. To me top quality means it should have all the reliability features that Colt rifles have. Close is not good enough for me, I want it to be as close to the TDP as possible or better. LMT and BCM both follow the TDP closely. I follow the advice of instructors such as Pat Rogers who see guns from these companys that are supposedly "good enough" fail. I will not compromise
on features or material. YMMV
Not sure about CMMG but I know Sabre doesnt do m4 cuts so it isn't top quality. To me top quality means it should have all the reliability features that Colt rifles have. Close is not good enough for me, I want it to be as close to the TDP as possible or better. LMT and BCM both follow the TDP closely. I follow the advice of instructors such as Pat Rogers who see guns from these companys that are supposedly "good enough" fail. I will not compromise
on features or material. YMMV
Every Sabre I have ever held, including my own, has standard M4 cuts. My CMMG barrel has a standard M4 extension and I put it in a standard M4 cut CMT upper. Sabre is a Govt. supplier of barrels. You are a bit misonformed/mistaken on what makes something quality or not.
Every Sabre I have ever held, including my own, has standard M4 cuts. My CMMG barrel has a standard M4 extension and I put it in a standard M4 cut CMT upper. Sabre is a Govt. supplier of barrels. You are a bit misonformed/mistaken on what makes something quality or not.
Maybe I am, if so sorry.
I also believe that Sabre's rifle have 1/9 twist barrels which I don't want.
Maybe I am, if so sorry.
I also believe that Sabre's rifle have 1/9 twist barrels which I don't want.
You can get 1/7 or 1/9. Mine and all of my friends are 1/7.
You can get 1/7 or 1/9. Mine and all of my friends are 1/7.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.
Sabre Defense is looking good afterall.
RAM Engineer
04-16-07, 20:00
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.
Sabre Defense is looking good afterall.
I'm on the waiting list with Grant for identically configured Midlength 16" BCM and Sabre Defense Uppers. Can't wait for one or both to show up!
I'm on the waiting list with Grant for identically configured Midlength 16" BCM and Sabre Defense Uppers. Can't wait for one or both to show up!
There is a waiting list for Sabre Defense uppers also?
Sabre is as good as you can get. CMMG is a gnats hair behind them at worst. Just get a complete upper from either of them and you'll be fine.
+1 for CMMG and I've never read anything bad about Sabre....I am confident about them being a Gov't supplier if that's important to you.
I've been trying to decide what to do about a carbine or mid-length myself. I want to get a mid-length but there isn't any top quality companys making middy uppers.
Does Noveske meet your definition of a top quality company? They have a 14.5 middy.
My Sabre has 1/7 twist and M4 barrel extension.
My CMMG has 1/7 twist and M4 barrel extension.
Does Noveske meet your definition of a top quality company? They have a 14.5 middy.
They certainly do.
I wasn't counting them as I consider them more high-end specialty guns. I'm talking about a basic configured rifle without a stainless match-grade barrel. I'm more concerned about barrel life than shooting tiny groups, and I'm not planning on shooting match ammo so I don't see how buying a Noveske rifle would benefit me.
Not sure about CMMG but I know Sabre doesnt do m4 cuts so it isn't top quality. To me top quality means it should have all the reliability features that Colt rifles have. Close is not good enough for me, I want it to be as close to the TDP as possible or better. LMT and BCM both follow the TDP closely. I follow the advice of instructors such as Pat Rogers who see guns from these companys that are supposedly "good enough" fail. I will not compromise
on features or material. YMMV
I have a Defender 2000 M4 14.5
came with SOPMOD and 2 stage trigger its made by LMT
wich I added extras KAC RAS ,ML2 etc
I also have a Bushmaster/VLTOR with a LMT M4 upper 551
Just as accurate as some of the so called match type barrels
I get ragged holes useing BH75/77 mk262
Turbo Supra
04-21-07, 11:00
Here is the foundation for my 5th AR, and my 2nd home build. Can't beat the quality of the Mega receivers. The matching upper is the cat's ass. Love the deep black finish...
http://www.imageviper.com/displayimage/81519/0/MEGA.jpg
Wanted to see how my 14.5" midlength setup would look, so I just temporarily installed a few parts for the photo...
http://www.imageviper.com/displayimage/81520/0/MEGA1.jpg
This was my first experience with any CMMG, Inc. parts, and I must say that I am extremely impressed. The barrel is every bit as nice as my LMT, the finish is very even and dark, and the Phantom flash hider is indexed/pinned perfectly. The M4 feed ramps line up perfectly with the M4 extensions in the Mega upper receiver. Can't wait to finish and shoot her. This could be one of my nicest (and most expensive) AR15s.
I'll post finished pics soon!
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