View Full Version : Why can't you use steel cased ammo
Why can't you use steel cased ammo on some uppers. Some say you can't use it others don't mention it.
I think alot of it has to do with warranties. My bushmaster said not to use steel cased ammo or else it would void the warranty. However, I used wolf and silver bear, and it worked just fine. I dont think it is said because it will shut down your rifle, I just think the manufacturers make that statement because ammo quality between the US and foreign manufacturers vary, and they dont want you sending back a rifle that works just fine on US ammo, but not on other stuff.
Mr.Anderson
02-23-10, 17:46
I see there is much debate about steel cased ammo.
I have shot about 100rnds of Wolf through my Stag and no problems.
But because of such uncertainty I actually called a TECH at Stag and asked them.
They informed me it would not void my warrenty and that my rifle would eat steel cased ammo just fine. I had my doubts...
Thats why I asked the same question 3 different ways and got the same answers lol.
Just my .02/experience
It is very odd that an AK priced for about 1/3rd of what an M4 costs would be able to handle steel cased ammo yet the AR cannot.
Extra wear on the extractor. If you have a well built rifle it should be able to eat anything you feed it. I have run multiple types of steal ammo through my Wilson even though the company said not to. The only problem that I have had with my rifle is while running low grade .223 stuff and even some of the 5.56 rated American Eagle tactical ammo would not lock the bolt to the rear on a empty mag. I solved the problem by replacing my light buffer with a H2 and now she runs fine. I have been running the TAP training ammo she runs great on it. I just also placed a order for some Brown bear to see how she likes the taste of it. I do however try and stay away from the corrosive stuff.
Extra wear on the extractor. If you have a well built rifle it should be able to eat anything you feed it. I have run multiple types of steal ammo through my Wilson even though the company said not to. The only problem that I have had with my rifle is while running low grade .223 stuff and even some of the 5.56 rated American Eagle tactical ammo would not lock the bolt to the rear on a empty mag. I solved the problem by replacing my light buffer with a H2 and now she runs fine. I have been running the TAP training ammo she runs great on it. I just also placed a order for some Brown bear to see how she likes the taste of it. I do however try and stay away from the corrosive stuff.
Steel cased ammo does NOT wear the extractor faster than brass cased in any measurable way and even if it does, its impossible to quantify how much extra wear its putting on that part.
Bottom line, extractors last a ridiculously long time as is and they're a cheap and easy part to replace.
Only guns with improper spec chambers will tend to choke on steel cased ammo.
It is very odd that an AK priced for about 1/3rd of what an M4 costs would be able to handle steel cased ammo yet the AR cannot.
Maybe because AKs were designed from inception to us steel-case ammo, which was prevelent in Eastern-Bloc countries, while ARs were designed around the brass cartridges commonly found in the western world.
Ok here is my two bits on steel case ammo in the AR platform
I have a Colt 6920 with over 5K of steel case ammo through it WOLF MIL CLASSIC, cheeeeeep), no problems. I also have a S&W 15R 545x39 upper with over 12K of steel case through it ( all corrosive). The extractor on the 5.45x39 upper sh*t the bed at 11,400 to 11, 500 rounds, just a bit past the typical design life. Two is not a text and long term evaluation. So whats the problem with steel case ammo.
Many for years have offered statements that steel case ammo will wear chambers, extractors, and bolt faces at an accelerated rate. It may but can anyone prove it? And how much of the useful life will you lose on a barrel?I have never seen a published study, one may exist and if it does I would expect that it was Generated by the US Mil. during ammo experiments in the Ordnance Department, during the SPIW, ACR or ammo improvement programs during or after the Viet Nam war. I would bet one of the RKI's that work in the industry could enlighten us.
Is steel case Wolf and COMBLOC Soviet surplus ammo gritty, and has heavy with a greasy soot. Yes but this has to do with bulk powder selection. Powder is a cost driver.
I guess we would all shoot grade one, barrier blind, bonded, low flash ammo if money was not a factor.
I guess that some gun builders have knowledge that I do not.
Regards
Matthew
Thomas M-4
02-23-10, 20:34
AK cases are heavily tapered which makes them easier to extract.
223 cases is for the most part straight walled works fine with brass that will contract after being fired but the steel case doesn't contract.
Add to the fact that .223 chambers tend to run on the tight side for more accuracy.
Steel cases simply don't function mechanically the same way brass cases do. I don't buy the excessive wear arguements.
But since steel cases don't seem to pressure form to the chamber properly like brass, they can cause functioning problems in an otherwise perfectly acceptable gun. And some people say that since steel doesn't form to the chamber, the cases allow more filth to build up inside the chamber walls.
I had a malf (bolt over) with steel cased hornady training ammo in a reliable gun two weeks ago.
I am in the middle of a carbine course right now, shooting Hornady steel cased training ammo in a 6940 and I haven't had even one hiccup shooting it. Buy quality steel cased and you'll be fine.
I would rather replace a cheap part 5000 rounds sooner then not get to shoot those 5000 rounds do to price of brass vs steel.
Fortier1796
02-24-10, 13:26
I put about five hundred rounds of steel cased Wolf down range behind 250 rounds of cheapo brass stuff this past weekend, didn't have a single issue with it at all. The gun was dirty as hell, but ate everything I put through it. And it wasn't horribly inaccurate, either. Sure, I'd love to shoot nothing but Black Hills or Hornady all day long, but as long as extractors are cheap, I don't have any issue using steel case stuff on range day.
I save the steel cased stuff for shooting where I can't/don't want to find my brass. Like when it's muddy or I'm shooting in rocky terrain.
ColdDeadHands
02-25-10, 07:07
I see honestly no need to shoot or buy steel cased ammo as they are almost the same price per 1000 as the SS109 I'm buying. There is a little difference in price but not enough to deal with all the gunk and buildup in the chamber from the lacquer or polymer.
Where are you getting the SS109 stuff?
ColdDeadHands
02-25-10, 09:40
I usually buy this ammo (http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1443.html)
Littlelebowski
02-25-10, 09:47
Steel cased ammo does NOT wear the extractor faster than brass cased in any measurable way and even if it does, its impossible to quantify how much extra wear its putting on that part.
Bottom line, extractors last a ridiculously long time as is and they're a cheap and easy part to replace.
Only guns with improper spec chambers will tend to choke on steel cased ammo.
We could end the thread with this. Sums it all up.
I see honestly no need to shoot or buy steel cased ammo
Steel cased ammo is wrong on many levels. (except for AK shooters)
I still have to shoot a little of is so that I'm credible when I call it crap on the forums. :p
I see honestly no need to shoot or buy steel cased ammo as they are almost the same price per 1000 as the SS109 I'm buying. There is a little difference in price but not enough to deal with all the gunk and buildup in the chamber from the lacquer or polymer.
Brass 339+shipping vs Steel 215+shipping. I not sure how your math works but can you make my paycheck bigger in the same manner. Jeff
ColdDeadHands
02-25-10, 19:27
Steel cased ammo is wrong on many levels. (except for AK shooters)
I still have to shoot a little of is so that I'm credible when I call it crap on the forums. :p
hehe:D
Steel cased ammo is wrong on many levels. (except for AK shooters)
Please expand on this statement.
I would rather replace a cheap part 5000 rounds sooner then not get to shoot those 5000 rounds do to price of brass vs steel.
I agree 100%, take the money you save on ammo and put it in a sock until something breaks.
I usually buy this ammo (http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1443.html)
I bought 990 rds of that last year, fired good but not super accurate. And it is still $120 more expensive than Wolf ammo (black box). Wolf is great if you are just shooting, I don't shoot it through my varmint rig though.
Please expand on this statement.
The AK was designed to shoot the steel cased Russian ammo. The AR was not. To me... shooting steel cased ammo in an AR is a lazy, cheap bastard way to shoot.
I'd rather shoot less and shoot good ammo. Others have the opposite philosophy, and that's cool too.
I just sent close to 2,000 rounds of Hornady steel-cased practice ammo through a 6940 over three days without a single ammo related failure (I had one double-feed atributed to an old magazine) and the chamber and extractor don't look any worse than they do after shooting brass cased ammo.
The AK was designed to shoot the steel cased Russian ammo. The AR was not. To me... shooting steel cased ammo in an AR is a lazy, cheap bastard way to shoot.
I'd rather shoot less and shoot good ammo. Others have the opposite philosophy, and that's cool too.
Are you serious?
Cagemonkey
02-27-10, 19:36
The AK was designed to shoot the steel cased Russian ammo. The AR was not. To me... shooting steel cased ammo in an AR is a lazy, cheap bastard way to shoot.
I'd rather shoot less and shoot good ammo. Others have the opposite philosophy, and that's cool too.
I agree. Spend 1500 to 2000 grand to setup a rifle and then shoot cheap, dirty, underpowered crap. Its like putting some generic brand name motor oil in a high performance sports car.
I agree. Spend 1500 to 2000 grand to setup a rifle and then shoot cheap, dirty, underpowered crap. Its like putting some generic brand name motor oil in a high performance sports car.
But by the time you put 15-20K through it with brass cased, you could have paid for a brand new 1500-2000 rifle with the savings shooting steel.
I won't shoot steel through my suppressor due to the dirty powder, but for high volume shooting it does make economical sense.
This thread is quickly devolving into idiocy.
If you dont like steel cased ammo, fine, dont shoot it. Until you can provide a REASON why it is VASTLY inferior to brass cased ammo for training and plinking...just do us a favor and stay the heck out of these threads. The elitist attitude in regards to being too good for steel cased ammo or owning a firearm that ONLY digests nothing but gold plated cases with rose impregnated bullets is also moronic.
If my life were on the line i would never, EVER rely on steel cased ammo but for 99% of the shooting community steel cased is more than adequate.
I would rather just shoot, period end of story. It just so happens that i shoot between 200 and 750 rounds a month out of my AR's. If its significantly cheaper and it works for me...hey, i get to spend the savings on other things.
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