View Full Version : Auto to Semi ?
OK so heres what happened. My uncle passed away last year. I went up to my aunts attic and there were 3 guns... i already pawned the revolver and shotty. but the 3rd gun looks to be full auto. the lower has wield marks and when i looked up the serial # it says 1970 the guts look almost new but the lower looks like its had a hard life (scratches dents dings). it does say auto on the select fire and the guys do look a tad differnt then mine.
Markings say
Colt AR15
M16A1
Property of U.S Govt.
so heres what i'd like to know. she said if i want it take it, However i dont have any papers and im pretty sure he didnt either (he was 81) is there a legal way for me to take the auto insides out and replace them w/ semi and register it as a semi ? i dont want a auto i travel to much out of state to hassel w/ it and i dont wanna sell it. its @ her house still because i didnt wanna take it yet. im not sure what my next step is a guy @ work said i can just swap out the guts and get rid of the auto but i'd like more advice i guess if nothing else call the local sheriff dps and let them take it away (after i strip the upper n stuff)
Thx in advance guys
Well, if it is full-auto and marked "Property of the U.S. Government" it is quite possibly stolen government property. You can't legally own it if that is the case. Merely possessing it is a felony, regardless of the FA capability.
If it is FA, you can't legally "downgrade" it to semi-auto.
Does the selector move to the FA position?
Do you know how your uncle acquired it?
Was your uncle in the service or national guard?
What do you mean, you "don't have papers"?
Is there a little "U" shaped piece of metal pinned in place behind the hammer but in front of the rear take-down pin? It should rock back and forth if you wiggle it.
http://www.quarterbore.com/images/nfa-ar-m16-01.jpg
No clue how he got it, if fact I didn't have a clue it was there, I just stumbeled on all 3 of them( a lil over a year AFTER his death). He was parlized for the last year before he passed so he didn't really get to say hey I have this here and that there. And when I say papers I mean registration or anything it was just in a box . I didn't need anything to pawn the other 2 they just ran the numbers and came up not stolen. It looks like the pic on the right. I have the upper but I didn't wanna take the rest. The weld is on the foreward part of the trigger area. I'm pretty sure he didn't steal it. So If can't downgrade it is my only option just give it to the local law ? Do they buy em or anything or are we just outta luck. I can't do anything illegal I wish there was a better legit route I could take.
It sounds like you are in a tough predicament. If you really want to find out if it is legal and your aunt doesn't have any paperwork hidden in a safe, call the NFA branch of the BATFE and give them the serial number. Find out if it is in the registry. It doesn't sound like it is but you never know. If it is not in the registry, then it is not legally owned and is considered contraband. Let us know what you find out. Good luck.
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is there a legal way for me to take the auto insides out and replace them w/ semi and register it as a semi ? i dont want a auto i travel to much out of state to hassel w/ it and i dont wanna sell it. its @ her house still because i didnt wanna take it yet. im not sure what my next step is a guy @ work said i can just swap out the guts and get rid of the auto but i'd like more advice i guess if nothing else call the local sheriff dps and let them take it away (after i strip the upper n stuff)
Thx in advance guys
Nope. Per ATF once a machine gun, always a machine gun. And it is the receiver that is the machine gun in most cases. If it's not on the registry best you can do is chop it for a parts kit or sell it to a Class III as a post sample.
can he try to register it?
No, you can't register it now. You can (should) check with BATF and see if it is in the registry and the paperwork was lost. If it is then it can transfer to the heir tax free. If not, it will be confiscated and destroyed.
lethal dose
02-24-10, 07:10
He could keep everything but the lower receiver and sear, right? Any reason he couldn't keep the complete upper and all the hardware?
If it's not in the NFA registry, it's contraband, and you can't register a new machine gun since 1986.
It sounds like someone got a hold of a demilled M16 and rewelded the lower.
It's quite possible that it might have been done legally prior to 1986, but without paperwork.......it's a tough call.
Do you have an experienced Class 3 dealer in your state that you could go to?
The absolute easiest thing to do is have the lower torch cut into several pieces and destroyed, and just keep the upper and all the other parts besides the FCG.
If it says full auto on it and it has the sear as the OP says then it was probably
stolen from a National Guard Armory or it was a Government rifle transferred to a police department and then stolen from the trunk of a car. If the uncle has no paperwork for it and it is a NFA eligible weapon as the OP indicates then it is a really sticky situation.
If it is indeed stolen you just can't turn in the lower receiver, the entire weapon must be accounted for.
Well I don't think it's stolen, but all my uncles were in armed forces and after that 2 of them went to wildlife and fishing and my dad went nopd. Would it be better for me to hack it up or just call and let them come pick it up ? Also I was gonna ask if it's not stolen what can I keep everything but lower reciver And sear ? Also will that upper work if I just buy and build another lower or is it differnt specs ? Thx for all the help so far guys
Thomas M-4
02-24-10, 09:13
Check and see if is on the registry first before you destroy it.
deffinately check. you could be sitting on a gold mine
As at least 3 people have said; Contact BATF NFA Branch to find out if it is in the registry before you take a chop saw to anything. If so, you or your aunt may be eligible for a tax free transfer on a fairly valuable weapon. If it is in the registry contact an experienced, trusted dealer to help you through.
If it's not in the registry then there is no way for you to turn the lower into non-contraband. If you know anyone in LE then you may consider having it run for stolen... Or, you could take a chop saw to the lower receiver.
Just realize that if not in the registry then the receiver is contraband. Don’t take possession of it, and don’t just leave it in your aunts attic as a trap for some other family member. If it proves to be contraband destroy it.
ETA here is some stuff from the NFA handbook that may be useful to you.
9.5.3.3 Uncertainty about the registration status of decedents’ firearmsIn some cases, an
executor or administrator of an estate may be uncertain whether the decedent’s firearms are
registered to the decedent in the NFRTR. Perhaps the executor or administrator is unable to
locate the decedent’s registration documents. As discussed in Section 9.2, if the decedent’s
firearms are not registered to him/her in the NFRTR, the firearms are contraband and may not be
lawfully possessed or transferred. If the executor or administrator cannot locate the decedent’s
registration documents, he/she should contact the NFA Branch in writing and inquire about the
firearms’ registration status. This inquiry should be accompanied by documents showing the
executor’s or administrator’s authority under State law to represent the decedent and dispose of
the decedent’s firearms. Although ATF is generally prohibited from disclosing tax information,
including the identity of persons to whom NFA firearms are registered, ATF may disclose such
information to persons lawfully representing registrants of NFA firearms.
9.5.3.4 Unregistered estate firearms. Should an estate contain NFA firearms not registered to
the decedent, these firearms are contraband that may not be lawfully possessed or transferred.
Where these are found within an estate, the executor or administrator should contact his/her local
ATF office and arrange for their disposal.
9.5.3.5 Distribution of decedents’ “sales samples.” If NFA firearms in a decedent’s estate are
“sales samples,” that is, they were imported and distributed to the decedent as sales samples or
were domestically manufactured machineguns distributed to the decedent as sales samples, the
sale sample restriction continues in effect and lawful possession of the firearms requires that the
firearms be held as “sales samples” for demonstration to government agencies.171 Therefore,
these firearms within an estate must be transferred to government agencies or FFLs/SOTs as
sales samples for demonstration to such agencies.
9.5.3 Distribution of estate firearms. A decedent’s registered NFA firearms may be conveyed taxexempt
to lawful heirs. These distributions are not treated as voluntary “transfers” under the NFA.
Rather, they are considered to be involuntary “transfers by operation of law.” Under this concept, ATF
will honor State court decisions relative to the ownership and right to possess NFA firearms. So, when
State courts authorize the distribution of estate firearms to decedents’ lawful heirs, ATF will approve the
distribution and registration to the heirs if the transactions are otherwise lawful. A lawful heir is anyone
named in the decedent’s will or, in the absence of a will, anyone entitled to inherit under the laws of the
State in which the decedent last resided.
9.5.3.1 Distributions to heirs. Although these distributions are not treated as “transfers” for
purposes of the NFA, Form 5 must be filed by an executor or administrator to register a firearm
to a lawful heir and the form must be approved by ATF prior to distribution to the heir. The
form should be filed as soon as possible. However, ATF will allow a reasonable time to arrange
for the transfer. This generally should be done before probate is closed. When a firearm is being
transferred to an individual heir, his or her fingerprints on FBI Forms FD-258 must accompany
the transfer application. The application will be denied if the heir’s receipt or possession of the
firearm would violate Federal, State, or local law. The law enforcement certification on the form
need not be completed. The form should also be accompanied by documentation showing the
executor’s or administrator’s authority to distribute the firearm as well as the heir’s entitlement
to the firearm. Distributions to heirs should not be made until Forms 5 are approved. Executors
and administrators are not required to have estate firearms registered to them prior to distribution
to lawful heirs.
9.5.3.2 Distributions to persons outside the estate. Distributions of NFA firearms by
executors or administrators to persons outside the estate (not beneficiaries) are “transfers” under
the NFA and require an ATF-approved transfer form. Transfers of serviceable firearms to other
entities or persons require an approved Form 4. Form 4 applications must be accompanied by
the applicable transfer tax, and, if the transferee is an individual, the transferee’s fingerprints on
FBI Forms FD-258. Applications will be denied if transferees’ receipt or possession of the
firearms would violate Federal, State, or local law. Also, Form 4 applications to transfer
firearms to individuals must contain the law enforcement certification of an appropriate law
enforcement official. See Section 9.8 for further information on these certifications. Form 4
applications to transfer firearms to non-FFLs residing outside the State in which the estate is
being administered will be denied. Form 4 transfers should not be made until the transfers are
approved.
Why don't you listen to the advice given instead of asking the same question over and over.
Contact the NFA branch and see if it is registered.
If it is then seee about getting replacement paperwork. Explain what happened.
If it isn't registered the smart thing to do is take the upper off and turn the receiver over to someone for proper disposal.
Well I don't think it's stolen, but all my uncles were in armed forces and after that 2 of them went to wildlife and fishing and my dad went nopd. Would it be better for me to hack it up or just call and let them come pick it up ? Also I was gonna ask if it's not stolen what can I keep everything but lower reciver And sear ? Also will that upper work if I just buy and build another lower or is it differnt specs ? Thx for all the help so far guys
Here is the contact info to your local ATF field office and the NFA branch...
BATFE Beaumont Field Office
2615 Calder Avenue, Suite 330
Beaumont, Texas 77702 USA
Voice (409) 981-6670
Fax (409) 981-6671
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
National Firearms Act Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA
Voice (304) 616-4500
Do not wait any longer... This is not something to play around with... Contact them directly with the information... They are not the bad guys, and they can help you find a resolution... If it is registered it is quite valuable, if is stolen government property, it needs to be returned to the US Government... If it’s a reweld, perhaps you can keep the parts kit and just surrender the receiver if it is in fact a unregistered machinegun
If you knowingly try to keep it after being given this information, you cannot claim ignorance of the law... I know the ATF monitor the web and you are just asking for trouble... Your IP is logged by your ISP when you post … You are not anonymous…
PM me with the info the ATF gives you and I will reopen this thread…
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