View Full Version : "Jungle" boots
The latest issue of SWAT has an article about several pieces of survival gear in the author's long-term testing. One of the things he mentions is a pair of boots that are not good jungle boots because they get caked in mud and the soles trap the muck. I was reminded of this yesterday as I was standing next to my truck slapping my Vasques together banging the mud off of them.
Anyone have a good suggestion for current production boots with soles that don't trap mud? Obviously I can go buy some old army jungle boots but I'd prefer the benefit of the last 50 years of technology in a lightweight, low-cut boot that doesn't simply trap every ounce of mud it comes in contact with.
The latest issue of SWAT has an article about several pieces of survival gear in the author's long-term testing. One of the things he mentions is a pair of boots that are not good jungle boots because they get caked in mud and the soles trap the muck. I was reminded of this yesterday as I was standing next to my truck slapping my Vasques together banging the mud off of them.
Anyone have a good suggestion for current production boots with soles that don't trap mud? Obviously I can go buy some old army jungle boots but I'd prefer the benefit of the last 50 years of technology in a lightweight, low-cut boot that doesn't simply trap every ounce of mud it comes in contact with.
Hmm. I'll throw this out there... though i'm not sure they're exactly what you are wanting. Look into 'upland' or bird-hunting type boots or shoes. They have soles designed to shed dirt/soil, some have light weight kangaroo constriction, and are available w/ GoreTex. The only catch: you might find 'em ugly. ymmv
Upland boots (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/common/search/search-results1.jsp?nyr=1&Ne=2510&Ntt=upland&sort=all&Ntk=Products&Go.y=0&N=3115&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=0&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1)
Upland boots are designed for lightweight walking comfort, with a soil-shedding sole and a lighter lug design. Upland bird hunters put on a lot of miles and don't need a lot of weight to carry along, or a design that accumulates heavy mud along the way. A heavy-lugged sole isn't needed for traction, and support isn't generally an issue, since most upland hunting is done on moderate terrain.
Francone noted that a good example of a lightweight upland bird boot would be Kangaroo Upland Boots, stating that ounce for ounce it is hard to find a tougher boot. Kangaroo leather is lighter and stronger than cowhide of equal thickness. Another option is the Upland Premier™, which uses extremely soft Pittards leather from England, for broke-in comfort right out of the box. The addition of a full GORE-TEX® bootie ensures that your feet stay dry. Both the Kangaroo Featherlight and the Upland Premier™ are offered in uninsulated versions for the early season and in Thinsulate insulated models for chasing wild roosters through November and December.
Don't mind the looks at all, and don't need goretex either. Light weight is a definite plus.
Was just reading the Oakley boot thread, and learned of OTB boots. You might check those too.
What are you using them for? You might take a look at these Red Wings (http://www.redwingshoes.com/productdetails.aspx?prodid=1043).
Speaking of Oakleys....
My Oakley boots seem to shed mud quite well. Much better than the Vibram soles on all my Danner boots. I don't know how they would perform in the Florida swamp mud though....
Was just reading the Oakley boot thread, and learned of OTB boots. You might check those too.
The OTBs are the ones in the article that are caked in stuck-on mud.
Outlander Systems
02-24-10, 14:01
Spent last week working entirely in, on average, ankle-deep mud. I haven't done anything to these but stomp on asphalt, to clean 'em up:
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4523/mud1.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9346/mud2r.jpg
Iraq Ninja
02-24-10, 15:39
The OTBs are the ones in the article that are caked in stuck-on mud.
The OTB uses a different sole than what is on the issued jungle boot. The traditional jungle boot had what they called a Panama style sole. I never had any problems with the boot other than in cold weather.
Ga Shooter
02-24-10, 15:51
I have been looking at these http://www.salomon.com/us/#/footwear/footwear/trekking/3d-fastpacker-mid-gtx
but they don't come in wide which I need.
I have never had a problem with Panama soles. Truly self cleaning
I have heard criticism on the OTB Jungle Lites since they came out, aesthetically inspired but not functional. Specifically relating to the redesign of the sole and the reshaping of toe area. Hopefully New Balance gets the whip cracking on them.
Hiking Shoe Brands
Asolo
Keen
Salomon
For military style boots
Danner
Belleville models with the Vibram soles
I havent read the article BUT I have used OTBs in some of the muddiest conditions in the world, Central American Caves.
Prior to OTBs I was using Danner Desert Acadias because they were heavy duty and not waterproof (vents and no goretex). Downside is they are heavy and the roughout leather soaks up water.
Prior to the DDAs I was using Wellco Jungles with the updated sole. I had a pair of these self destruct during a cave resuce training mission and led to an injury.
I have used the Odhins extensively and they do clear of mud pretty quickly. I have not used the current OTB jungles. I am not sure which the article is discussing.
Down side on the Odhins is that the sole is vented, great for drainage when you are in a super wet environment. Not great in an environment where you may encounter a few small puddles and a standard boot would keep your feet dry (think a range that recently got a little rain).
Personally, the Odhins are my go to boots for sustained wet environments. For intermediate environments (range example) are Merrel Moab Mids in Gore tex. I have a couple of colleagues that swear by the Moab Mids without Gore tex for continuous wet environments. I like them for dry environments but havent used them down south.
I spent years wearing heavy boots like the vasque sundowners and some of the full leather Merrells. Except for some very specific missions the negatives dont outweigh the positives. Lighter, faster, more capable is my new motto and the Odhins and Moabs meet those descriptors.
I have never had a problem with Panama soles. Truly self cleaning
I have heard criticism on the OTB Jungle Lites since they came out, aesthetically inspired but not functional. Specifically relating to the redesign of the sole and the reshaping of toe area. Hopefully New Balance gets the whip cracking on them.
Hiking Shoe Brands
Asolo
Keen
Salomon
Keen is a great company... awesome comfort. I have 6 pairs of their shoes & boots. The 7th on the way. :D I wouldn't say they are soil shredders though, but worth checking out for sure.
I thought the Panama soles were designed on the tractor tire concept and were supposed to be very good at shedding mud? I brought a pair with me to SE Asia, but never put them thru their paces as they were so uncomfortable.
I wore TNF Adventure Racing shoes with attachable mesh ankle gaitors that had soft rubber soles mixed with very hard rubber/plastic knobs and they were absolutely fantastic in mud, swamps, mountains but would skate bad on wet slick boulders because of the hard knobs.The proprietary gaitors were the best I ever used in the jungle... very coarse mesh so they breathed just fine, and kept leeches and debris out, but not designed to be water proof at all which is good. Very well thought out design:)
Iraq Ninja
02-25-10, 04:46
The classic Panama sole does work well with mud. I just edited my previous post since it could be read as suggesting that the OTB boot had a Panama sole.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Panama is poor in muddy situations, just that the OTB version is not as good.
The OTB in question in the article is the Jungle Boot.
I'm not so much interested in that boot, or a traditional "jungle" boot, as I am something in a modern hiking style boot that has a sole that doesn't trap mud. Right now I wear Vasques but I've had them so long I don't know what model they are.
I need a new pair of boots anyway, and am just looking for some input on possible choices that are light weight, preferably no Goretex, and have a sole that doesn't trap mud. Yes, these will be primarily for range use, and in the coming months we'll be entering our rainy season down here and mud on the range is something we'll be dealing with. Standing water is rare, or at least my need to traverse standing water is rare, but large portions of the range turn to mud pretty regularly.
Spurholder
02-25-10, 09:14
^In that case, you might want to try either the Merrell Moab Ventilators, or (if you can find them) the Sawtooths.
Sawtooth Link (http://www.merrell.com/US/en-us/ViewProduct.mvc.aspx/7987M/0/Mens/Sawtooth?galleryId=M-F)
Ventilator Link (http://www.merrell.com/US/en-us/Product.mvc.aspx/M-F-F/12005M/0/Men/Footwear/Filters/Mens/Moab-Ventilator-Mid)
I've got a pair of Vents with the Gore-Tex insert. They're awesome.
I won't say that they shed mud, but they do a decent job of keeping me from slipping while walking in mud. They do clean up pretty easily, however.
Another thumbs up for the Moab Mids with Goretex. These are great boots for any wet condition. I've worn them hunting here in the Central VA clay, snowshoeing in Taos, all through our recent snows and my feet never got wet. Nice light boot that has the comfort of the Ventilator with the added dryness.
ETA, they shed mud better/easier to clear than my other boots which include Montrail, Red Wings and Vasque. My Filson Uplanders are great for mud but they are a taller boot than you are looking for.
David Thomas
02-25-10, 10:30
I have these boots by Irish Setter, (made by Red Wing that was mention previously in this thread)
http://www.irishsetterboots.com/irishsetter-shoe/851-irish-setter/851-irish-setter-mens-wingshooter-brown
They do a good job of shedding mud, but are not light... in fact they are anything but light. I only mention this because upland boots and red wings were offered as suggestions.
Ga Shooter
02-25-10, 10:36
The OTB in question in the article is the Jungle Boot.
I'm not so much interested in that boot, or a traditional "jungle" boot, as I am something in a modern hiking style boot that has a sole that doesn't trap mud. Right now I wear Vasques but I've had them so long I don't know what model they are.
I need a new pair of boots anyway, and am just looking for some input on possible choices that are light weight, preferably no Goretex, and have a sole that doesn't trap mud. Yes, these will be primarily for range use, and in the coming months we'll be entering our rainy season down here and mud on the range is something we'll be dealing with. Standing water is rare, or at least my need to traverse standing water is rare, but large portions of the range turn to mud pretty regularly.
Living in south GA we have the same issue. Very hot, humid summers but our range does get puddles. I also wear a 4E wide. Does anyone have any suggestions on a boot that breathes but is water resistant and comes in a wide? Like Rob looking for a modern hiking style boot instead of a jungle boot.
Full disclosure: i work the boot dept at Cabela's.
Merrell Moabs are great lightweight hiking boots, but the tread doesn't shed soil, the Vibram soles on 'em are designed to be grippy. For the OP's needs, I still standby my recommendation for trying on an Upland style boot. The kangaroo ones are really lightweight.
lethal dose
02-25-10, 12:42
I have the wolveriene caribou 9" in digital storm. 800 gram thinsulate and goretex. Completely waterproof in my experience and great positive traction.
http://www.onlineshoes.com/mens-wolverine-king-caribou-iii-gore-tex-wp-9-wolverine-storm-camo-p_id169585?adtrack=dsr&term=Men%27s+Wolverine+King+Caribou+III+Gore%2DTex%AE+WP+9%27%27&offer=
Ga Shooter
03-08-10, 16:00
Rob why no Gortex?
Rob why no Gortex?
No use for it. It's not cold here, and I'm not stepping in puddles, just mud.
Ga Shooter
03-08-10, 20:19
I have never had any boots with Gortex. Does it make them hotter? I live near you and don't want heat but I do get wet feet and would like them to stay dry. Thanks for the help.
VooDoo6Actual
03-08-10, 22:14
I have never had any boots with Gortex. Does it make them hotter? I live near you and don't want heat but I do get wet feet and would like them to stay dry. Thanks for the help.
Negative.
Gore-Tex materials are typically based on thermo-mechanically expanded polytetrafluoroethylene and other fluoropolymer products. They are used in a wide variety of applications such as high performance fabrics, medical implants, filter media, insulation for wires and cables, gaskets, and sealants. However, Gore-Tex is best known for its use in protective, yet breathable, rain wear.
The simplest sort of rain wear is a two layer sandwich. The outer layer is typically nylon or polyester and provides strength. The inner one is polyurethane (abbreviated: PU), and provides water resistance, at the cost of breathability.
Early Gore-Tex fabric replaced the inner layer of PU with a thin, porous fluoropolymer membrane (Teflon) coating that is bonded to a fabric. This membrane had about 9 billion pores per square inch (around 1.4 billion pores per square centimeter). Each pore is approximately 1/20,000 the size of a water droplet, making it impenetrable to liquid water while still allowing the smaller sized water vapour molecules to pass through.
However it was found that when used in clothing the exposed Teflon membrane layer was easily damaged, as well as being compromised by exposure to the wearer's own perspiration. As a result a third, monolithic PU layer was added, denoted in the schematic (see right)as the inner of the "protection" layers. Finally either a loose fabric shell layer, or a bonded coating (typically a grid fabric, or occasionally a carbon layer as in Gore-Tex Paclite Shell) is added to the garment to protect the membrane sandwich. This final design has been criticized as offering greatly reduced performance and more marketing benefits than performance ones.[4]
More recent fabrics such as eVent and Epic avoid the need for this inner PU coating[5] and have been shown to have higher breathability as a result, while still being rainproof
HTH...
Ga Shooter
03-11-10, 14:29
Negative.
Gore-Tex materials are typically based on thermo-mechanically expanded polytetrafluoroethylene and other fluoropolymer products. They are used in a wide variety of applications such as high performance fabrics, medical implants, filter media, insulation for wires and cables, gaskets, and sealants. However, Gore-Tex is best known for its use in protective, yet breathable, rain wear.
The simplest sort of rain wear is a two layer sandwich. The outer layer is typically nylon or polyester and provides strength. The inner one is polyurethane (abbreviated: PU), and provides water resistance, at the cost of breathability.
Early Gore-Tex fabric replaced the inner layer of PU with a thin, porous fluoropolymer membrane (Teflon) coating that is bonded to a fabric. This membrane had about 9 billion pores per square inch (around 1.4 billion pores per square centimeter). Each pore is approximately 1/20,000 the size of a water droplet, making it impenetrable to liquid water while still allowing the smaller sized water vapour molecules to pass through.
However it was found that when used in clothing the exposed Teflon membrane layer was easily damaged, as well as being compromised by exposure to the wearer's own perspiration. As a result a third, monolithic PU layer was added, denoted in the schematic (see right)as the inner of the "protection" layers. Finally either a loose fabric shell layer, or a bonded coating (typically a grid fabric, or occasionally a carbon layer as in Gore-Tex Paclite Shell) is added to the garment to protect the membrane sandwich. This final design has been criticized as offering greatly reduced performance and more marketing benefits than performance ones.[4]
More recent fabrics such as eVent and Epic avoid the need for this inner PU coating[5] and have been shown to have higher breathability as a result, while still being rainproof
HTH...
Now that is a FULL explanation.
Thank you.
:D
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