View Full Version : State Department lifts ban on exports of night-vision goggles
What do you guys think about this? http://washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/24/state-lifts-ban-on-exports-of-night-vision-goggles/ I doesn't sound good to me but someone here knows more about the effect of it than I do.
Nathan_Bell
02-25-10, 07:56
Well now we know what the Chicom's wanted in order for them to keep buying our debt.
I'm sure the back cause has something to with money not security.
I doubt that formalities like "export regulations" like ITAR matter a whole lot. These items can be and are sold to anyone willing to pay, within the U.S., and it's legal. Even on Ebay. Foreign countries, including and especially China, got their hands on plenty of them long, long ago and have certainly reverse engineered them at this point.
rifleman2000
02-25-10, 08:54
Current technology with thermal imaging is superior to simple light amplification. Soon Gen 3 and and even Gen 4 NVGs will be obselete.
I dont see it mattering a whole lot. I dont imagine someone who really wanted the gear getting frustrated over our export laws.
GermanSynergy
02-25-10, 09:34
Still can't send ACOGs or PMAGS to your own APO though, right?:rolleyes:
Current technology with thermal imaging is superior to simple light amplification. Soon Gen 3 and and even Gen 4 NVGs will be obselete.
They both have their places.
Current technology with thermal imaging is superior to simple light amplification. Soon Gen 3 and and even Gen 4 NVGs will be obselete.
The cost however is a huge difference as well, $25k compared to $3k is a big number :p
rifleman2000
02-25-10, 09:41
They both have their places.
Not when they develop NV with thermal and light amplification merged into one image.
Iraq Ninja
02-25-10, 10:18
Still can't send ACOGs or PMAGS to your own APO though, right?:rolleyes:
Not legally. I never lie on the shipping paperwork. I used to put a bunch of Pmags in a box and throw a few paperback books in with it. On the form, I would simply write "Books and Magazines" and never had any issues lol.
In regards to NVGs, does that mean we can bring them back into the country legally now?
I still can't get updates to my spyware software because our ISP shows up as being in Iraq, and we are on a US mil FOB. It is the only ISP available and they are contracted through the military. Some bases do have ITAR friendly ISPs such as Sniper Hill. At least we don't have to worry about having our websites filtered though...
GermanSynergy
02-25-10, 10:20
Not legally. I never lie on the shipping paperwork. I used to put a bunch of Pmags in a box and throw a few paperback books in with it. On the form, I would simply write "Books and Magazines" and never had any issues lol.
In regards to NVGs, does that mean we can bring them back into the country legally now?
I still can't get updates to my spyware software because our ISP shows up as being in Iraq, and we are on a US mil FOB. It is the only ISP available and they are contracted through the military. Some bases do have ITAR friendly ISPs such as Sniper Hill. At least we don't have to worry about having our websites filtered though...
Same with Jackle Wireless :cool::D
Iraq Ninja
02-25-10, 10:27
Same with Jackle Wireless :cool::D
Ah, Camp Victory eh? At least Jackal is fast. Oh, and Itunes won't let me buy and download songs, yet I can get their podcasts. Don't think it is an ITARS issue, but rather an APPLE issue.
GermanSynergy
02-25-10, 10:34
Ah, Camp Victory eh? At least Jackal is fast. Oh, and Itunes won't let me buy and download songs, yet I can get their podcasts. Don't think it is an ITARS issue, but rather an APPLE issue.
I used to get Savage and Limbaugh podcasts no problem, and I-Tunes as well. I left VBC in December for good after 3 years.
Amazon is weird about what they will send you as well. I ordered an I-pod case and was told it was restricted. I also tried to order a fishing pole and some tackle in the spring of 2007, and was told by a certain vendor it was restricted as well :rolleyes:
VooDoo6Actual
02-25-10, 11:15
Iraq Ninja writes:
"I used to put a bunch of Pmags in a box and throw a few paperback books in with it. On the form, I would simply write "Books and Magazines" and never had any issues lol. "
OUTSTANDING !
LMAO
These a-holes must be removed from the govt.....They are slicing and dicing their way to helping, aiding and abetting, the enemy. THIS IS TREASON. I can just see the headlines from Afghanistan," Coalition soildiers attacked and killed in a surprise night attack'".....I can just see it now !!!!!!!!!!!!!
BRAVO1
Iraq Ninja writes:
"I used to put a bunch of Pmags in a box and throw a few paperback books in with it. On the form, I would simply write "Books and Magazines" and never had any issues lol. "
I thought everyone knew that. Stick a catalog in (Dillon Blue Press works well) and put "reading material and magazines". Declaring full value of course.
Not when they develop NV with thermal and light amplification merged into one image.
Like I said, they both have their places. I am not an expert on this but have used both sorts of devices. Merged I have not tried yet but I suspect that there are times you want one or the other.
Plus, that newer technology does not diminish the effectiveness of NVG alone to our enemies.
One funny things is that most of the Gen2+ stuff uses Russian tubes which are imported anyway. I doubt that Haji has any difficulties as it is getting Gen2+ stuff now.
GermanSynergy
02-25-10, 13:47
These a-holes must be removed from the govt.....They are slicing and dicing their way to helping, aiding and abetting, the enemy. THIS IS TREASON. I can just see the headlines from Afghanistan," Coalition soildiers attacked and killed in a surprise night attack'".....I can just see it now !!!!!!!!!!!!!
BRAVO1
They can buy away from the Russians/ChiComs and CIS.....
whiterabbit05
02-25-10, 14:29
I used to put a bunch of Pmags in a box and throw a few paperback books in with it. On the form, I would simply write "Books and Magazines" and never had any issues lol.
Genius. :cool:
But I'm sure that wouldn't fly if they found out.
ForTehNguyen
02-25-10, 18:01
they need to lift a lot more export bans
they need to lift a lot more export bans
And import bans too.
Well now we know what the Chicom's wanted in order for them to keep buying our debt.
And we are just getting started.
I dont see it mattering a whole lot..
Nope, the ban was going to be lifted in 5 weeks anyway....
Belmont31R
02-25-10, 18:45
Yet we can't even go out and buy a friggin IR laser.
Funny how our gov allows the sale of all kinds of shit outside our borders they dont let us have.
Yet we can't even go out and buy a friggin IR laser.
Funny how our gov allows the sale of all kinds of shit outside our borders they dont let us have.
IR is perfectly legal, the reason you're having trouble buying one is due to manufacturers not wanting to sell to the public since it's not their market, and not worth the liability.
IR Lasers can cause serious eye damage.
Like I said, they both have their places. I am not an expert on this but have used both sorts of devices. Merged I have not tried yet but I suspect that there are times you want one or the other.
The nice thing about devices with both technologies is that the possibility exists to use each system independently (example: KAC FIST). Drawbacks are size and more significantly (IMO) cost.
IR is perfectly legal, the reason you're having trouble buying one is due to manufacturers not wanting to sell to the public since it's not their market, and not worth the liability.
No, it is illegal for MFGs to sell to the public per FDA regulations.
Belmont31R
02-26-10, 08:53
IR is perfectly legal, the reason you're having trouble buying one is due to manufacturers not wanting to sell to the public since it's not their market, and not worth the liability.
IR Lasers can cause serious eye damage.
As renegade said its illegal under the current regulations for me to buy an IR laser from a manufacturer or dealer.
Im pretty sure the gun the laser would go on can cause more damage than the laser beam...but I guess its too logical to think that way.
As renegade said its illegal under the current regulations for me to buy an IR laser from a manufacturer or dealer.
Im pretty sure the gun the laser would go on can cause more damage than the laser beam...but I guess its too logical to think that way.
It is logical to think that way, but generally shooting someone has repercussions. Flashing a laser around, especially one that no one can see in daylight has a great potential as a weapon as well. To be quite honest, I am kind of glad they are harder to get. Can you imagine going to a gun show with IR lasers for sale? I know I don't even point blue guns at people, but you can almost bank on someone pointing it around, hell, people do that now with lasers.
That being said, I kind of want one anyway.
As renegade said its illegal under the current regulations for me to buy an IR laser from a manufacturer or dealer.
Im pretty sure the gun the laser would go on can cause more damage than the laser beam...but I guess its too logical to think that way.
I'm pretty confident that it's not illegal, if my understanding is correct the FDA only regulates lasers of 5mW or greater and to be FDA compliant they simply need a lock. No market for it so why bother and have the liability?
CFR TITLE 21 SEC 1040.10 Lser products (http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?FR=1040.10)
Belmont31R
02-26-10, 11:11
It is logical to think that way, but generally shooting someone has repercussions. Flashing a laser around, especially one that no one can see in daylight has a great potential as a weapon as well. To be quite honest, I am kind of glad they are harder to get. Can you imagine going to a gun show with IR lasers for sale? I know I don't even point blue guns at people, but you can almost bank on someone pointing it around, hell, people do that now with lasers.
That being said, I kind of want one anyway.
Saying I cannot buy one from a manufacturer or dealer doesn't mean I cannot get one. It just costs 2-5X as much because they've made it into a gray market item.
Charge people with assault for pointing one at someones eyes, and causing them damage. Just like its illegal to flash a visible laser at people...
Just sounds stupid to say I cant put a laser on a gun because the laser is dangerous. The gun isnt?
Belmont31R
02-26-10, 11:16
I'm pretty confident that it's not illegal, if my understanding is correct the FDA only regulates lasers of 5mW or greater and to be FDA compliant they simply need a lock. No market for it so why bother and have the liability?
CFR TITLE 21 SEC 1040.10 Lser products (http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?FR=1040.10)
I'm talking about things like PEQ2's and PEQ15's. I can own one but cannot buy one expcept 2nd hand, and Ive heard that is becoming a no-no with new orders being sold with an agreement if an LE agency or officer wants to get rid of it the unit has to be destroyed instead of being sold to a plain ole civilian.
I don't like being told I cannot buy something because I might use it improperly. Its the same argument people use against guns, and I really hate "what if" type of laws and regulations. Punish people for using something improperly not because they MIGHT do something improper with it. If they are so dangerous they shouldn't hand them out to 18 year old privates military wide, and LE should not being using them, either.
I don't care if they make it a felony assault if you damage someones eyes with them intentionally. Try pointing a laser at an aircraft, and see how well that goes down.
I guess I cant convey my point very well, but the ability to do so much harm without knowing and seeing the beam is frightening. I know we trust people with guns very easily, but the IR laser just seems like something I dont want to be near. Perhaps it is more of a fear of mine than others. I remember in highschool when kids had lasers all the time (when they first became popular and affordable) and it was non stop for 2 years of school. We even did have one kid with coke bottle glasses have a temporary eye issue because of a keychain.
So yeah, I think its more of a fear on my part.
My understanding is that it is not legal to sell them to civvies in the US (meaning IR lasers) but it is not illegal to own one. That is how a guy at a manufacturer explained it to me.
Of course, the government can have non FDA approved stuff to wave around
Belmont31R
02-26-10, 11:24
I guess I cant convey my point very well, but the ability to do so much harm without knowing and seeing the beam is frightening. I know we trust people with guns very easily, but the IR laser just seems like something I dont want to be near. Perhaps it is more of a fear of mine than others. I remember in highschool when kids had lasers all the time (when they first became popular and affordable) and it was non stop for 2 years of school. We even did have one kid with coke bottle glasses have a temporary eye issue because of a keychain.
So yeah, I think its more of a fear on my part.
Again if we used that same logic no one should be allowed to own guns because a few use them to hurt other people.
Improper use should be punished not their general ownership.
Again if we used that same logic no one should be allowed to own guns because a few use them to hurt other people.
Improper use should be punished not their general ownership.
yeah, the other post popped up while I was typing. I see that point, and also thought a little more, and anyone who wishes to do harm will already have one.
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