View Full Version : U.S. Customs and Border Protection Officers Seize Shipment of . . . Machine guns
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/local/02242010.xml
They are gas blowback airsoft rifles . . .
"On Jan. 25, the ATF sent a determination to CBP disclosing that in their imported condition the rifles were tooled to shoot plastic balls. However, replacement of internal components with original machinegun components could be accomplished within a short period of time, thus rendering the rifles capable of firing live ammunition."
Really? :mad:
NICE!
If I could make an airsoft gun shoot 5.56 I could save a lot of money... where is the how-to on this?
What a joke...
Littlelebowski
02-25-10, 10:40
I'd like to see a demo of this. From behind appropriate shielding that is. I sure as hell wouldn't pull the trigger on one.
My favorite part: “These rifles could have had far-reaching and potentially devastating ramifications if they had gotten into the hands of individuals who wanted to do harm in the American population”, said Customs and Border Protection Area Port Director, Rolando Suliveras Jr. “This was a good interception by our officers.”
The funny part is that if the airsoft rifles had orange tips, they would have gone through just fine . . . into the hands of individuals who wanted to do harm in the American population. One welt at a time!
The intelligence of our government and some of its' agencies never ceases to amaze me.
I've wondered how dimensionally accurate those GBB airsoft rifles are, because the lowers seem remarkably similar to the real thing with their FCG setup.
What I'm getting at is if the takedown holes are in the right spots, one could put a standard upper with M16 BCG on the airsoft lower. With a spring and buffer changeout, would it work?
I'm not going to be the one to find out, but I'll bet I'm not the only one asking.
I look at it this way..ever since AG Holder stated he wants to reinstate the AWB, he's been looking for a excuse to do so, The drug wars in Mexico are the perfect scapegoat, I'm guessing but sometime in the near future, reinstating the AWB is going to come up...
I believe that these officers were independently unintelligent. Save it for the AWB thread.
Here's a thought.
Modify these and have the CBP boys swap their old rifles in for these.
Save the Taxpayers a bundle.
I'd specifically like to see Rolando Suliveras Jr demo one of these "converted" airsoft machine guns . . . . must be in a simulated street crime though (with the toy in his hand. . . literally).
so who's the victim? that's important information... some toy vendor in America is now out $10,000 thanks to the ATF's true and diligent work. as a small business owner, i can tell you that a $10,000 loss would be more than enough to instantly induce a Chapter 7 in most.
THANKS FOR PROTECTING AMERICANS, ATF!
GermanSynergy
02-25-10, 11:47
so who's the victim? that's important information... some toy vendor in America is now out $10,000 thanks to the ATF's true and diligent work. as a small business owner, i can tell you that a $10,000 loss would be more than enough to instantly induce a Chapter 7 in most.
THANKS FOR PROTECTING AMERICANS, ATF!
Remember, if it saves one life......:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Heavy Metal
02-25-10, 11:48
I look at it this way..ever since AG Holder stated he wants to reinstate the AWB, he's been looking for a excuse to do so, The drug wars in Mexico are the perfect scapegoat, I'm guessing but sometime in the near future, reinstating the AWB is going to come up...
The only problem with that line of thinking is:
1.)The Dems in Congress are scared shitless and we are into an election year.
2.)Seriously, no one really gives a crap about Mexico. Even Mexico doesn't give a crap about Mexico.
GermanSynergy
02-25-10, 11:52
The only problem with that line of thinking is:
1.)The Dems in Congress are scared shitless and we are into an election year.
2.)Seriously, no one really gives a crap about Mexico because Mexico doesn't give a crap about Mexico.
Very true. Most Dems are smart enough to leave gun control alone, at least until November.
Belmont31R
02-25-10, 12:39
Im not aware of any airsoft lower that is a directly bolt on for an AR15 upper.
Most of them are not compatible, and although the FCG parts are similar they are still off sizes. It would take just as much work to make one fit an AR upper and actually fire the gun as it would be to just do the mill work on a real lower.
Sounds like the ATF has too much time on their hands if they have to go around making shit up and confiscating airsoft guns just to get a headline. No sieges on Americans to go do?
I feel safer already knowing that these dangerous weapons were stopped at our border.
Every person involved with this needs to lose his or her job, in this economy more than enough qualified people exist to replace these dipshits. Hell we have a guy (Hoss356) on this board looking for work, I'm sure he knows what a toy is.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/local/02242010.xml
They are gas blowback airsoft rifles . . .
"On Jan. 25, the ATF sent a determination to CBP disclosing that in their imported condition the rifles were tooled to shoot plastic balls. However, replacement of internal components with original machinegun components could be accomplished within a short period of time, thus rendering the rifles capable of firing live ammunition."
Really? :mad:
Can't be true. I have it on good authority that everyone at ATF is a professional, honest and patriotic individual.
:D
so who's the victim? that's important information... some toy vendor in America is now out $10,000 thanks to the ATF's true and diligent work. as a small business owner, i can tell you that a $10,000 loss would be more than enough to instantly induce a Chapter 7 in most.
THANKS FOR PROTECTING AMERICANS, ATF!
Oh there is a victim. The US taxpayer who funds this stupidity.
ForTehNguyen
02-25-10, 18:36
hey guys will 1:7 twist stabilize my airsoft pellets well?????
Oh there is a victim. The US taxpayer who funds this stupidity.
my point was that the ONLY victim is the poor sonuvabitch whose $10,000 order was just chopped into pieces by the ATF.
The only problem with that line of thinking is:
1.)The Dems in Congress are scared shitless and we are into an election year.
2.)Seriously, no one really gives a crap about Mexico. Even Mexico doesn't give a crap about Mexico.
Those are valid points.. But I don't think for a minute the Dems have forgotten about the AWB..Right now they know that if they shove this health care B.S. through (Which I've no doubt they'll try to do) They will pay a high price for it, this Nov. Idiots like Holder are appointed, so the elections this fall mean nothing to him, he will continue to gather "evidence"to be used later or at a later date when the dems again regain power. Holder cares nothing about Mexico either, it's just a handy scapegoat to use to try to build his case.. IF and only IF the Dems somehow manage to hold onto their majority after the Nov elections, I fully expect to see a bill introduced to reinstate the AWB.. Admittedly, the chances of this actually happening are slim.But,gun control is something the Dems will never,ever, give up on, no matter what they say. Hitlers propaganda minister,Gobbels once said when asked how the Nazi's got to power, "You repeat the same lie,over and over, never varying from it, and sooner or later the people will begin to accept it as the truth" That's the Dems whole playbook right there..
you'll shoot your eye out kid!!!
Folks got it all wrong - it will not start with evil black rifles - start with toys, move up to bb guns, pellete guns, then work on the .22s, .410, on up.
IT STARTED WITH AIRSOFT...
ThirdWatcher
02-25-10, 20:55
It's for the children. ;)
The last guy I faced carrying a full auto M4 (airsoft) got hit hard enough to draw blood from my S&W pistol (airsoft).
I ambushed him and caught him on the lobe of his ear and he was bleeding pretty good (for airsoft).
I am not afraid of the M4 (airsoft guns)! :rolleyes:
Just sayin
Buckaroo
Heavy Metal
02-25-10, 21:14
IF the Dems somehow manage to hold onto their majority after the Nov elections, I fully expect to see a bill introduced to reinstate the AWB.. Admittedly, the chances of this actually happening are slim.
Retain it or not, it will be a lot slimmer than it is now. If they can not do better than the current numbers, they can forget another AWB. I doubt the Dems will see this level of control for another 25 years.
By then, AR's will be as common as hunting rifles and there will be tons of case law precident.
If they can't manage it in the next 8 monts, stick a fork in it, it's done.
my point was that the ONLY victim is the poor sonuvabitch whose $10,000 order was just chopped into pieces by the ATF.
I wasn't saying you was wrong.
I wasn't saying you was wrong.
one or both of us is misunderstanding something... but we appear to be one the same page, nonetheless.
:cool:
"The shipment, shipped from a manufacturer in Taiwan, manifested only as “Toys and Parts” "
"The rifles had no serial numbers on them, as a genuine gun would, but also did not have an orange-blaze tip which is required for all importations of toy guns."
Whoever knowingly and willfully, with intent to defraud the United States, smuggles, or clandestinely introduces or attempts to smuggle or clandestinely introduce into the United States any merchandise which should have been invoiced, or makes out or passes, or attempts to pass, through the customhouse any false, forged, or fraudulent invoice, or other document or paper; or Whoever fraudulently or knowingly imports or brings into the United States, any merchandise contrary to law, or receives, conceals, buys, sells, or in any manner facilitates the transportation, concealment, or sale of such merchandise after importation, knowing the same to have been imported or brought into the United States contrary to law - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. Proof of defendant's possession of such goods, unless explained to the satisfaction of the jury, shall be deemed evidence sufficient to authorize conviction for violation of this section.
Merchandise introduced into the United States in violation of this section, or the value thereof, to be recovered from any person described in the first or second paragraph of this section, shall be forfeited to the United States.
"The shipment, shipped from a manufacturer in Taiwan, manifested only as “Toys and Parts” "
"The rifles had no serial numbers on them, as a genuine gun would, but also did not have an orange-blaze tip which is required for all importations of toy guns."
Whoever knowingly and willfully, with intent to defraud the United States, smuggles, or clandestinely introduces or attempts to smuggle or clandestinely introduce into the United States any merchandise which should have been invoiced, or makes out or passes, or attempts to pass, through the customhouse any false, forged, or fraudulent invoice, or other document or paper; or Whoever fraudulently or knowingly imports or brings into the United States, any merchandise contrary to law, or receives, conceals, buys, sells, or in any manner facilitates the transportation, concealment, or sale of such merchandise after importation, knowing the same to have been imported or brought into the United States contrary to law - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. Proof of defendant's possession of such goods, unless explained to the satisfaction of the jury, shall be deemed evidence sufficient to authorize conviction for violation of this section.
Merchandise introduced into the United States in violation of this section, or the value thereof, to be recovered from any person described in the first or second paragraph of this section, shall be forfeited to the United States.
do you think the toys were being smuggled?
As the section in bold states, smuggling can be accomplished by mis-manifesting and carries the same penalty as hiding them in a hidden compartment.
TRUE story :)
when I was about 5 I had a metal cap gun :) this was back in the late 60s when cap guns were metal and in toy stores all over :)
anyway I had this idea I could drill it out and make it shoot real bullets ? remember I was about 5 !!!!
of course I never did as I did not want to mess up my cap gun
a few years later about 6 or 7 I realized how stupid I was and it would never work
sad very sad that someone out there has the intelligence of me when I was 5 and is in some kind of control :) well maybe in a few years he will get smart (heck I did) when his brain capacity hits what I had at about 6-7 years old has he will realize this wont work
so who's the victim? that's important information... some toy vendor in America is now out $10,000 thanks to the ATF's true and diligent work. as a small business owner, i can tell you that a $10,000 loss would be more than enough to instantly induce a Chapter 7 in most.
THANKS FOR PROTECTING AMERICANS, ATF!
Airsoft Outlet NW, in Cornelius, Oregon.
Apparently, Customs makes a habbit of taking a lot of their shipments. Then emailing the owner than they sold his products in a public auction.
Corrupt SOB's.
Airsoft Outlet NW, in Cornelius, Oregon.
Apparently, Customs makes a habbit of taking a lot of their shipments. Then emailing the owner than they sold his products in a public auction.
Corrupt SOB's.
wholly shit... small world, eh?
wholly shit... small world, eh?
Very much so!
I was talking to the owners son, and they sell a lot of stuff to the local sheriff's (Washington County) for training.
Sucks to see a good business go down. I hope this doesn't ding them too bad!
Can you substantiate your allegations of corruption or are you just spewing excrement?
Can you substantiate your allegations of corruption or are you just spewing excrement?
I dunno, man. Telling the owner his stuff is Illegal, then selling it at Auction, seems pretty corrupt to me.
Call them. They seemed more than willing to talk; I heard the story on a local radio program. (Lars Larson)
Contraband items are seized, then destroyed, not sold at action. Trademark infringement items/clothing (counterfeit/knock-off's) have been donated to needy programs only with the permission of the trademark holder. Usually for an item to be sold at auction it would have to be seized, then forfeited. An example would be say you imported 100,000 widgets but failed to properly handle the import documentation in order to avoid paying duty. Your shipment would be help in bond, pending payment of duty. You fail to pay the duty and your shipment would be considered abandoned, then forfeited, then it would be sold at auction. Not as common as it is sometimes made out to be.
Again, it is easy to call someone corrupt; harder to prove. If the poster is going bandy crap like that around, he should back it up.
I was talking to the owners son
I heard the story on a local radio program.
Which one?
Contraband items are seized, then destroyed, not sold at action. Trademark infringement items/clothing (counterfeit/knock-off's) have been donated to needy programs only with the permission of the trademark holder. Usually for an item to be sold at auction it would have to be seized, then forfeited. An example would be say you imported 100,000 widgets but failed to properly handle the import documentation in order to avoid paying duty. Your shipment would be help in bond, pending payment of duty. You fail to pay the duty and your shipment would be considered abandoned, then forfeited, then it would be sold at auction. Not as common as it is sometimes made out to be.
Again, it is easy to call someone corrupt; harder to prove. If the poster is going bandy crap like that around, he should back it up.
Yep, you know it.
Glad to see you're on the ball.
I guess I'll stop lying. Next time, I'll go talk to the owners of the business before posting information. Sorry for wasting your time, friend!
Quote:
I was talking to the owners son
Quote:
I heard the story on a local radio program.
Which one?
Oh man, you got me!
Whew. I must still be lying. Glad you caught my slip up! I might have fooled you all.
It's Both. Maybe I "phrased" it all wrong, or whatever, though. Brad Martin was on the radio, I was using that to explain their willingness to not keep the whole situation under wraps.
The owners name is Brad Martin, and it's his store. Ben Martin, his son, is who I talk to. He's a ten foot tall former Marine, can't miss him.
Are we done calling me a liar?
I've got more information I can share about why the "guns" were seized, and how the business is fighting it.
I know exactly why and how the guns were seized and I know all about the petition process for relief from seizure/forfeiture; you're not going to be educating me on it. You can find the information in 19CFR. Also, I did not call you a liar. You'll have an easier time if you reply to one person at a time in individual posts.
I know exactly why and how the guns were seized and I know all about the petition process for relief from seizure/forfeiture; you're not going to be educating me on it. You can find the information in 19CFR. Also, I did not call you a liar. You'll have an easier time if you reply to one person at a time in individual posts.
Ohh, okay. Well why don't you share with us what is going on? What has the business owner said? What notifications have they received? Who all have they talked to? What have they found?
I'm very interested to know more about this story. I'm glad there's someone here, who lives close and has contact with the business, that know's what's been going on!
Whatever.
Sorry for posting in the thread, M4C. I promise not to dirty you up ever again.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/local/02242010.xml
They are gas blowback airsoft rifles . . .
Tiny plastic soldiers and soda cans have just as much a right to be protected from tools with a menacing appearance. Who's with me on this?
"The shipment, shipped from a manufacturer in Taiwan, manifested only as “Toys and Parts” "
"The rifles had no serial numbers on them, as a genuine gun would, but also did not have an orange-blaze tip which is required for all importations of toy guns."
Whoever knowingly and willfully, with intent to defraud the United States, smuggles, or clandestinely introduces or attempts to smuggle or clandestinely introduce into the United States any merchandise which should have been invoiced, or makes out or passes, or attempts to pass, through the customhouse any false, forged, or fraudulent invoice, or other document or paper; or Whoever fraudulently or knowingly imports or brings into the United States, any merchandise contrary to law, or receives, conceals, buys, sells, or in any manner facilitates the transportation, concealment, or sale of such merchandise after importation, knowing the same to have been imported or brought into the United States contrary to law - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. Proof of defendant's possession of such goods, unless explained to the satisfaction of the jury, shall be deemed evidence sufficient to authorize conviction for violation of this section.
Merchandise introduced into the United States in violation of this section, or the value thereof, to be recovered from any person described in the first or second paragraph of this section, shall be forfeited to the United States.
That's fine and dandy, some one broke the law. How does that change the fact that they used the seizure as propaganda, no doubt to show they need further funding. I can't honestly believe that CBP truly mistook these toys are firearms, it's just BS to increase funding by showing how many guns they get off the street.
And that's corruption.
This will really save me some money, and here I was set to go out and drop a couple thou on a AR, now I'll just get a couple airsofts and be good. I lov all the info i get here.
Who wants to be the first to test fire these babies when i get them done??
This will really save me some money, and here I was set to go out and drop a couple thou on a AR, now I'll just get a couple airsofts and be good. I lov all the info i get here.
Who wants to be the first to test fire these babies when i get them done??
dibbs.
kmrtnsn has all the information, so he'll probably tell you this later. ;)
Airsoft Outlet has taken the "toys" to gun smiths in the area to see just how "Readily" they can be converted to firearms.
The trigger group can indeed physically sit inside the lower. But you'd have to drill hole(S?) to pin it in.
The ATF's stance is that you can put a real upper on it and fire bullets. Apparently without the trigger group, though.
wins the first shot, I'll watch, from behind cover, thank you.
This will really save me some money, and here I was set to go out and drop a couple thou on a AR, now I'll just get a couple airsofts and be good. I lov all the info i get here.
Who wants to be the first to test fire these babies when i get them done??
just make sure you video it for youtube :)
one or both of us is misunderstanding something... but we appear to be one the same page, nonetheless.
:cool:
We're good. I was mostly just adding to your comment rather than trying to dispute it.
Can you substantiate your allegations of corruption or are you just spewing excrement?
Since you seem to know about this situation first hand can you tell us whether or not the government's claim that these airsoft guns can be easily converted into real machineguns is accurate?
That sounds like total bullcrap at first glance, please educate.
Just to clarify, even if these aren't correctly imported and the seizure is lawful, if a false claim they can be converted to machineguns is used by the government to try to scare people I find that corrupt enough.
News story on this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEuTwYALho
All I want to know is:
A. Have they been test fired with live ammunition?
and
B. Did they sucessfully fire live ammunition?
If they did, then ATF is correct and the "toys" are illegal.
If they haven't, then they're full of shit until they actually make it work.
Either way they need to let us see it. This is too much of a political hot potato to simply say "trust us, they're bad". :(
Holy crap, Mr. Special Agent can't even operate an M4, he tried to insert the mag backwards.
Your tax dollars at work.
Holy crap, Mr. Special Agent can't even operate an M4, he tried to insert the mag backwards.
Your tax dollars at work.
He is indeed a very special agent of the most special persuasion.
PS.
If anyone is interested in my schematics to convert balsa wood toy planes into a real fighter of your choice just file FoIR on me. Believe it.
The ATF guys are so full of it, I sure as hell would not attempt to change out the upper and see if it would work, all anyone that knows anything about the AR would have to do is look at them to know the two are different . My airsoft is battery powered and uses cheap pot metal, where as my AR is made of a little better stuff. Our government at work.
Watch your backs guys, they got the airsoft mod 1 dash bang.
Be safe
Holy crap, Mr. Special Agent can't even operate an M4, he tried to insert the mag backwards.
Your tax dollars at work.
Not to mention he swept the whole damn room with the muzzle. I bet he's say "Yeah, but it's empty" when confronted with that.
so I can swep the room, point it at you, and then pull the, you know the thing that makes it go bang, O ya the trigger and nothing will happen.
No ned to be safe now.
Not to mention he swept the whole damn room with the muzzle. I bet he's say "Yeah, but it's empty" when confronted with that.
i think he'd probably say "this is just a toy... uh, i mean... um.. in it's current configurationg, uh.. it hasn't yet received the modification required to make it a 'firearm,' per se.... um..."
I'm sure a number of you guys have already read about the ATF airsoft raid up in Tacoma.
Here's the news report video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEuTwYALho&feature=player_embedded
ATF Special Agent is quoted saying, "With minimal work, this can be converted into a machine gun."
Waiting to see a youtube video where someone actually tries to convert one to a machine gun.
I'm buying as many squirt guns as possible right now before they are banned as possible flame throwers:p
fill one with gasoline and duck tape a match to the end and wah-lah! :eek:
do ya'll remember the steel BB gun that was in the shotgun news years back it was full auto and you used freon cans to power it .A friend bought one and it did what it said But.his broke ,he could not get parts ,then they just disappeared from the market:confused:
Speechless. Had to pick my jaw up off the floor to even type this.
I'm buying as many squirt guns as possible right now before they are banned as possible flame throwers:p
fill one with gasoline and duck tape a match to the end and wah-lah! :eek:
AFAIK there are no regulations on flamethrowers yet. Squirt oil cans work better. That's what I used as a kid.
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