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gunny
04-13-07, 20:37
Are we allowed to convert an existing registered SBR lower to FA? If so, what's the cost & procedure? Or is it possible to purchase an already registered FA if manufactured prior to '86? Thanks.

Bolt_Overide
04-13-07, 23:13
no sir you are not. The only machine guns us peasants can own must have been manufactured and registered prior to the 1986 ban.

rob_s
04-14-07, 05:37
Actually, you can convert one, but you need a Registered Drop in Auto Sear (which also has to have been made prior to 1986). They are running over $12k these days last time I checked.

luvmy40
04-17-13, 07:45
I did not want to start a new thread for this question and this was the only related thread I could find that has not been closed and locked.

The option of a registered drop in auto sear was presented in another forum and I thought this was bad advice as I assumed(flame suit on) that this would be tantamount to modifying a post ban lower. after a bit of google fu I found several references to this option but no real explanation as to how it is different from modifying or manufacturing a full auto weapon.

How is installing a RDIAS into a post ban lower not "modifying" or "manufacturing" a post ban full auto weapon?

I'm not able to wrap my head around this.

markm
04-17-13, 07:57
An RDIAS is a machine gun in the eyes of the infinitely wise BATFE.

Owning one means that you can have a host in any configuration. SBR.. whatever... the Sear is the machine gun and can wear anything it wants.

Now technically if you remove the sear and just take an unregistered SBR to shoot, you're in illegal territory.

horseman234
04-17-13, 08:15
The auto sear is classified as a machine gun. Here is the pertinent ATF ruling:

http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-81-4.pdf

99HMC4
04-17-13, 08:20
I can.... :D

luvmy40
04-17-13, 08:30
So, adding a RDIAS to my 21st century AR is modifying the RDIAS not modifying the lower receiver. I get it. I don't follow the logic but I get it. It is Bureau-speak legalese we're talking about after all.

hotrodder636
04-17-13, 08:36
Where can one find an RDIAS these days anyway?

markm
04-17-13, 08:58
Where can one find an RDIAS these days anyway?

You might post this question on ARFcom. They have a broader base of people who would know if someone was selling.

I'd be curious as to what they're going for these days. Over $20,000 maybe? :confused:

yfz
04-17-13, 09:03
Mark, since you can make a machine gun an sbr. You can put a RDIAS in a lower that is not registered as an sbr and put a short barrel upper on this lower legally until you remove the RDIAS? That's kinda what I got from the last part of your first post.

hotrodder636
04-17-13, 09:10
You might post this question on ARFcom. They have a broader base of people who would know if someone was selling.

I'd be curious as to what they're going for these days. Over $20,000 maybe? :confused:

That's why I was asking, curious about price of an RDIAS vs actual rifle. I am not a member of ARFcom anyways.

markm
04-17-13, 09:17
Mark, since you can make a machine gun an sbr. You can put a RDIAS in a lower that is not registered as an sbr and put a short barrel upper on this lower legally until you remove the RDIAS? That's kinda what I got from the last part of your first post.

That's exactly right. I haven't heard too much about what Registered Lowers and RDIASs are going for.

One memeber here commented that he SOLD his RR (registered receiver) because prices got so crazy high.

horseman234
04-17-13, 09:20
I heard from a friend that a registered sear sold for $18,000 recently. He lives a block away from another friend who I haven't talked with lately that keeps up with that market.:blink:

yfz
04-17-13, 09:24
That is way to much (IMO) for a little piece of metal.

masakari
04-17-13, 09:55
That is way to much (IMO) for a little piece of metal.

youre not paying for the piece of metal, youre paying for the right to legally own a fully automatic rifle.
but yes, I understand what you mean. I'll just stick with my semi-auto rifles and be happy.

markm
04-17-13, 09:57
That is way to much (IMO) for a little piece of metal.

I agree. But it's a few pieces of metal and a spring. ;)

The thing is.. an RDIAS offers great flexibility.... and should you get a bad round and blow up a gun, the RDIAS would likely survive whereas a registered lower is gone.

Doc. Holiday
04-17-13, 11:17
You'll also need to add the cost of ammo into that full auto as well. You'll be going through mags in 2 sec. With the current prices, you would be looking at around $18 a mag for 2 seconds of "fun" on top of the the $12K price tag :suicide2:

yfz
04-17-13, 11:27
youre not paying for the piece of metal, youre paying for the right to legally own a fully automatic rifle.
but yes, I understand what you mean. I'll just stick with my semi-auto rifles and be happy.

I realize what you are actually paying for, but for that amount of money I would rather hold out for a lower. The only benefit of the RDIAS is what Mark stated.

Artos
04-17-13, 15:35
I was told the RDIAS was prone to wear and you cannot modify it if the high points get rounded, bent, etc and will not function...this was some time ago when the sear was substantially less $$$ than a registered AR lower.

Have always wanted an auto AR but dropped the rdias options with this info...do they indeed have a limited life span compared to a registered or even converted legal AR lower??

The pricing being stated above sounds about the same a fully converted gun??

horseman234
04-17-13, 17:47
The price I quoted above was told to me from a second hand source, so it may not be accurate, although I do trust them. I have several friends who who have owned these sears for years, and they have never mentioned any problems with wear.

fixit69
04-18-13, 17:08
They vary in price depending on when sold. That probably a little high, but around the mark. Registered lower recievers have spiked in price and they usually run a little higher than RDIAS.

They do wear, as all metal does, but very slowly.

ArJunaBug
04-18-13, 19:06
You can convert an SBR to full-auto, BUT only by using a transferable DIAS (Drop In Auto Sear), or lightning link. These will cost you thousands of dollars. They can be used in any AR-15, provided they have the space to drop these into. Some newer AR-15's cannot accept these toys without modifications that required milling out a space for them to be able to fit.

markm
04-19-13, 08:18
I was told the RDIAS was prone to wear and you cannot modify it if the high points get rounded, bent, etc and will not function...this was some time ago when the sear was substantially less $$$ than a registered AR lower.

Have always wanted an auto AR but dropped the rdias options with this info...do they indeed have a limited life span compared to a registered or even converted legal AR lower??

The pricing being stated above sounds about the same a fully converted gun??

A properly timed, or correctly made DIAS will last the life of a few weapons... and then you could make a replacement "trip" or sear for the body. And you can certainly make a replacement sear for it. There's even a half way decent thread on how to do this on BarfTArd. Even shows you how to heat treat the part.

I suppose the body of the sear with the Serial number info couldn't be replaced, but that's not really a wear part.

A poorly timed, junky auto sear.. or one where the sear piece is improperly heat treated will wear out faster.

markm
04-19-13, 09:04
Full auto losses its fun after you realize how much buy/loading ammo sucks.....

Everyone should have a two week trial run of full auto on their weapon and ammo. ;)

Now rimfire full auto should be a non-NFA activity. :cool:

Airhasz
04-19-13, 09:32
From my experience of many thousands of rounds, there is nothing "not fun" about emptying a 30rd magazine with one pull of the trigger...:p

Todd00000
04-20-13, 13:02
no sir you are not. The only machine guns us peasants can own must have been manufactured and registered prior to the 1986 ban.

That's what I understand yet I recently read that Mr. Novenske owned a FA 240B and in this vid she has a FA rifle, is her dad a cop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZE-EDGw2vo

99HMC4
04-20-13, 14:58
Being a cop/military means NOTHING. Unless your issued a MG for WORK.

One, Noveske is an 02 SOT. He can build as many MGs as he wants (well wanted).

Two, just cause that girl was shooting a select fire ACR doesn't mean it had to be hers or family. ANYONE could let her shot it. And being a ACR I would bet its a local SOTs posti conversion....

Todd00000
04-20-13, 15:01
Being a cop/military means NOTHING. Unless your issued a MG for WORK.

One, Noveske is an 02 SOT. He can build as many MGs as he wants (well wanted).

Two, just cause that girl was shooting a select fire ACR doesn't mean it had to be hers or family. ANYONE could let her shot it. And being a ACR I would bet its a local SOTs posti conversion....

Understand all except, "local SOTs posti conversion."

99HMC4
04-20-13, 22:50
Posti= post sample (post 86) machine gun
02 SOT= title 2 manufacture allowed to make machine guns

Todd00000
04-21-13, 10:32
Posti= post sample (post 86) machine gun
02 SOT= title 2 manufacture allowed to make machine guns

Thanks.

Crazy Chuckster
04-22-13, 23:14
So if 02 SOT's can legally create a machine gun by using a real sear. What can they do with them other than shoot them?

SteyrAUG
04-23-13, 01:01
So, adding a RDIAS to my 21st century AR is modifying the RDIAS not modifying the lower receiver. I get it. I don't follow the logic but I get it. It is Bureau-speak legalese we're talking about after all.

So long as you have a lower that doesn't have a sear block, it's a "drop in" part.

SteyrAUG
04-23-13, 01:12
Understand all except, "local SOTs posti conversion."


SOTs can also buy pre 86 dealer samples (foreign factory import machine guns) which are non transferable to non SOTs but you can keep them after you retire your license.

For example I have pre 86 dealer sample MP5s. Mine are factory machine guns from HK. Nearly every "transferable" MP5 is actually a HK94 conversion done prior to the 86 ban. I have heard there are a few "transferable" factory MP5s on the registry but they would have needed to be imported and registered PRIOR to the 1968 GCA which banned the registration of foreign machine guns for private transfer.

And a pre 68 factory transferable would likely sell for twice the money of a pre 86 transferable conversion MP5 or somewhere in the neighborhood of $40k although I've never ever seen one come to market. I was lucky enough to grab most of my pre 86 dealer sample MP5s when they were around $6k. I can't sell them to anyone but other SOTs but I can keep them if I retire my license.

SteyrAUG
04-23-13, 01:13
So if 02 SOT's can legally create a machine gun by using a real sear. What can they do with them other than shoot them?

Sell them to other 02s and PDs. Not much else. But you can take a parts kit and turn it into a fun gun for the cost of a semi auto.

Crazy Chuckster
04-23-13, 08:14
Thank you for the clarification!

Bluto
04-23-13, 18:15
So if 02 SOT's can legally create a machine gun by using a real sear. What can they do with them other than shoot them?

"I will hug it and pet it and squeeze it and name it George"...

Crazy Chuckster
04-23-13, 18:18
"I will hug it and pet it and squeeze it and name it George"...

If I was an 02 SOT I would do the same :D

michaelkih
04-23-13, 21:35
My RDIAS is probably my favorite machine gun out of all of the ones I own, but I am an M16 fan since young.

Everyone else here has pretty much answered all of your questions here correctly.

If you want one, put up a WTB ad on subguns or sturmgewehr. That's what I did two years ago when I picked up my all steel one for $17,000. Prices are now $20,000+or-

Have fun!