View Full Version : What is liked best, MP MS2 or Vickers?
Comments are appreciated. Thinking about trying the MS2 with ASAP.
You are comparing two different sling types. They both have their place, the better question would be how do you intend to use it. To determine what you might like, it might not be a bad idea to get a cheaper sling first (boonie packer) rather than spending $65 on something that you wont like. The general consensus I read here is single point for CQB only, modern two point for all other times.
I have several Vickers in all shapes and colors and love them. I am building a new gun and was thinking about running the ASAP plate and the MS2 sling. I know it can be a 2 point and 1 point, so it seems like it kills two birds, but am mainly curious as to owner's thoughts who have both and what and why they prefer one over the other or if they are indifferent.
Thanks.
For me, the padded Vickers two point is king. If I was going to run a single point though, the Magpul MS2 would be my choice.
C4
Thanks Grant, that helps.
As far as the ASAP, does anyone prefer this without running the MS2 sling over standard QD RE plate?
I combined them, concept of the MS2, material of the VCAS.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33734&highlight=vickers
That was the thread I was looking for, but I have not been able to use the search function all day for some reason.
Thanks all.
I think this question is like a
Do you like Chocolate ice cream better or vanilla?
I like the Vickers for a 2 point. I have not tried the MS2 sling. I have spoken to some people that have and they pointed out some structural deficiencies. I trusted them. Since you cannot objectively look at my experience as you were not there, I encourage you to do the same.
decodeddiesel
02-26-10, 12:59
Like the 2 point for 16" and above, like the single for SBRs. YMMV.
I think this question is like a
Do you like Chocolate ice cream better or vanilla?
I like the Vickers for a 2 point. I have not tried the MS2 sling. I have spoken to some people that have and they pointed out some structural deficiencies. I trusted them. Since you cannot objectively look at my experience as you were not there, I encourage you to do the same.
Well, I thought about this being the case, but after finding that the MS2 works as a 2 point as well, it was sorta like Chocolate and Chocolate vanilla.
I like the padded Vickers two point with QD sling swivels. Seems like I have spent more money on unwanted slings than any other AR15 accessory.
openbolt
SWATcop556
02-26-10, 14:28
FWIW the MS2 is IMO the best single point sling out there. That being said I would prefer a different material similar to the Vickers with a wider strap for comfort. That being said the MS2 is useable in a 2 point configuration but there are much better options for that application.
I use a MS2 for my work SBR and Vickers on everything else.
FWIW the MS2 is IMO the best single point sling out there. That being said I would prefer a different material similar to the Vickers with a wider strap for comfort. That being said the MS2 is useable in a 2 point configuration but there are much better options for that application.
I use a MS2 for my work SBR and Vickers on everything else.
I believe the MS3 from Magpul will do just that.
i was going to ask what the MS3 would be like. guess i will have to wait and see.
FWIW the MS2 is IMO the best single point sling out there. That being said I would prefer a different material similar to the Vickers with a wider strap for comfort. That being said the MS2 is useable in a 2 point configuration but there are much better options for that application.
I use a MS2 for my work SBR and Vickers on everything else.
There's actually a fellow cop making a MS2 style sling that's wider. I just purchased one for my SBR that I plan to test out next month at a carbine class. I'm liking it so far but I'm unable to use the 2 point configuration with my body armor. I think I needed to get the XL sling.
http://www.magnesiumproductions.com/tacstrap/web-1.jpg
Belmont31R
02-26-10, 16:51
My personal thoughts are that the MS2 works ok as a 2 point, and combined with the ASAP plate is an excellent single point.
If you are going to be carrying the gun slung a lot then Id go with the Vickers 2 point. If you are just doing drills or having it slung for short periods of time the MS2 is better. I don't think the MS2 is very comfortable material wise. Its flat rope for mountain climbing..... The Vickers has much more comfortable material, and if you get the padded one that is even more comfortable. The Vickers works well for a sling, too, but does not have the same maneuverability the MS2 does especially for things like going from strong to weak side, shooting in odd positions, etc.
Just an FYI for those who have Vickers slings
The Vickers sling works with the ASAP plate. Just use a Quick Release buckle on it with the Blue Force Gear MASH hook or HK hook adapter. It slides along there well for transitions, etc.
Thanks Grant, that helps.
As far as the ASAP, does anyone prefer this without running the MS2 sling over standard QD RE plate?
I ran my MS2 with a QD D ring until I had a chance to swap in the ASAP plate. It didnt work very well IMO compared to the ASAP plate. Instead of smooth transitions it tended to kinda be delayed because of the shape of the D-Ring. If it had a regular circular ring on the QD it would probably work better. The MS2 seemed to hang up on one side of the d-ring and then sling shot over to the other side, not very smoothly. The ASAP plate took care of this completely.
I ended up combining the two. Works well for me, best of both worlds. You can buy the MS2 snap and "D" rings and make the Magpul portion yourself. I was still experimenting when I ended up with this.
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae86/norsemen_photos/Hobby/attach.jpg
Kentucky Cop
02-27-10, 21:27
Does anyone have a nice picture of their Vickers on the rifle like the picture above? I haven't seen one up close and currently looking to buy either the MS3 with the ASAP when available or go with the Vickers 2 point. It's going on my rifle for work. I do need to be able to throw the rifle behind my back in a quick transition when handcuffing people. Hmmm decisions......!
Thoughts???
Outlander Systems
02-27-10, 21:53
VTAC.
;)
Kentucky Cop
02-27-10, 22:41
Umm, yeah. Dont laugh. Please help..... :D
I just looked at the Blue Force Gear website and they have a Ga-zillion slings. Then NG threw me for a loop and I found myself cruising the VTAC site and was looking at their padded 2 point sling. Now I am confused which isnt hard to do. What 2 point sling are you guys talking about? Can anyone provide a link directly to it for me? Is it the Vickers one for like $67 dollars or well, hell......I don't know. For what its worth, I watched the video of the 2 pt padded VTAC sling and it looked pretty nice. The BFG site had me spinning with all the models. Blah!
Thanks guys, one of those nights.
Ky Cop
I like the Vickers Combat sling, without padding, and it is what I "tweaked" to allow conversion from 2 point to single point similar to a Magpul MS2.
http://www.blueforcegear.com/product.cfm?type=cat&cat_id=5&prod_id=79
I am with eguns and grant on the vickers 2 pt sling for a 14.5"+ barrel, but then again, norseman update might be the way to go with an sbr. It seems folks are try to cath up anyway they can to the vickers design. Heck, my wife's LW is still with an old wilderness that works for her.
This could almost become a chevy/ford debate, but really isnt.
Thomas M-4
02-28-10, 00:34
I use the blue force gear vcas with QD swivels very well made sling.
Vtac has a long tail :confused: on the adjustment slider vcas is short.
Both slings get good reviews but I chose the VCAS. Both will most likely serve you well.
Has others have said the single point is probably at its best with an SBR.
Blankwaffe
02-28-10, 02:28
I personally took Grants advice and went with the Vickers sometime back and have nothing but praise for the sling.
I was recently talked into buying the MS2 and ASAP by another dealer for the middy and had mixed emotions on the setup.
The MS2 and ASAP worked/felt pretty well right up to the point that I took the rifle out hunting.Then I remembered why I did not like metal hooks and attachment points.You would be shocked just how much noise the attachments on the ASAP can make in dead silent woods.Felt like I farted in church or something.Ended up wrapping the attachment points with tape it distracted me so much.
So I went back to the Colt barrel sling attachment(I dont have rails on anything) with a Vickers for all the carbines.I still use my old 3 points for the rifles/SPR's.
I say get the Vickers as its well designed,made and fully functional however you want to use it.
Does anyone have a nice picture of their Vickers on the rifle like the picture above? I haven't seen one up close and currently looking to buy either the MS3 with the ASAP when available or go with the Vickers 2 point. It's going on my rifle for work. I do need to be able to throw the rifle behind my back in a quick transition when handcuffing people. Hmmm decisions......!
Thoughts???
Here is mine, BFG VCAS padded.
Hope it will help!
http://gi149.photobucket.com/groups/s57/M9I25PT9NR/MSM16A2SBRUpgraded.jpg
Umm, yeah. Dont laugh. Please help..... :D
I just looked at the Blue Force Gear website and they have a Ga-zillion slings. Then NG threw me for a loop and I found myself cruising the VTAC site and was looking at their padded 2 point sling. Now I am confused which isnt hard to do. What 2 point sling are you guys talking about? Can anyone provide a link directly to it for me? Is it the Vickers one for like $67 dollars or well, hell......I don't know. For what its worth, I watched the video of the 2 pt padded VTAC sling and it looked pretty nice. The BFG site had me spinning with all the models. Blah!
Thanks guys, one of those nights.
Ky Cop
First, there are four slings listed here (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=23992/Product/CAR_15_M4_COMBAT_APPLICATIONS_SLING). There is the Vickers black, OD, and Tan, and a Victory sling. The Victory is the exact same sling design made from a different webbing material and hardware to allow for a lower price, and it doesn't come with a QD buckle for attaching at the stock end like the full-price Vickers does. The Vickers is $60, the Victory is $38. However, with your LE creds you can get a discount through Brownells after which the slings are $49 and $31 respectively.
There is also an "AA" model for "acetal adjuster" where the sliding adjustment buckle is plastic instead of metal, and it can be had from retailers like SKD Tactical for $40 (http://www.skdtac.com/Blue_Force_Gear_VCAS_Sling_p/bfg.102.htm?1=1&CartID=0). For what it's worth, this is the same slider used on the Victory sling.
I would suggest the Victory for most users. I have multiple examples of all of the above, as well as padded, QD, and other models of the BFG slings and I tend to prefer the lower price of the Victory and believe it gives up nothing to the other models.
Finally, if the price is really still galling you, you can take a look at the Boonie Packer Quick Adjust (http://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=26) which is $16 and is the design the Vickers is based on. Get the 1.25" version, not the 1.5", and skip the attachment add-ons as it will attach directly to your carbine. I have one of these as well and while not as refined as the various BFG versions it is every bit as functional. For a variety of reasons I would not, however, suggest this sling if you're looking to make a 1-to-2-point version like mine.
Hope this helps.
yallknowho
02-28-10, 12:08
VTAC.
;)
+1
(added for length)
Then I remembered why I did not like metal hooks and attachment points.You would be shocked just how much noise the attachments on the ASAP can make in dead silent woods.Felt like I farted in church or something.Ended up wrapping the attachment points with tape it distracted me so much.
This is one of the biggest issues I have with the ASAP and MS2. Imagine stalking 2 legged creatures that shoot back.
The metallic clanging is just about as bad as opening a velcro pocket. 2 sounds easily identified as man made and not normally found in nature. Doing stealth tactics with these slings / end plate, as they come from the manufacturer, is not good.
I prefer the VTAC and run several of them. My primary work carbine has a modified 1pt/2pt VTAC, however even though my shooting would be considered CQB with a lot of transitional shooting, I still leave the sling in the 2 point mode about 95% of the time. We are also transitioning all 75 of our carbines with them.
IMO, the MS2 and ASAP is too noisy, too slim, and I don't care for the inline ring, nor the clasp attachment. In all fairness Magpul is supposedly addressing some of these issues in the upcoming MS3.
This is one of the biggest issues I have with the ASAP and MS2. Imagine stalking 2 legged creatures that shoot back.
The metallic clanging is just about as bad as opening a velcro pocket. 2 sounds easily identified as man made and not normally found in nature. Doing stealth tactics with these slings / end plate, as they come from the manufacturer, is not good.
If you are going out as such, wouldn't you sound proof your kit.
When I was on active duty we used to bounce around prior to leaving on patrol to see what made noice. If something made noise, we taped it or moved it.
Kentucky Cop
02-28-10, 14:10
On the two point VTAC/VCAS, do most of you guys attach the rear to the castle nut or take it all the way back to the end of the stock? I noticed several doing it both ways.
KC
If you are going out as such, wouldn't you sound proof your kit.
When I was on active duty we used to bounce around prior to leaving on patrol to see what made noice. If something made noise, we taped it or moved it.Yes, you would do a jump test or similar which is still used. However if you look closely at the design of the MS2 and ASAP in combination, if you tape off the sling connection to the link attached to the ASAP you will more than likely be taking out the snap shackle release function, which may be bad as that may hinder you from releasing from your weapon. Now if you were to tape the upper side of the link on the ASAP to the slider, it may not slide as well from side to side. While you may still be able to perform correctly with duct tape, IMO the design is a bit flawed. IMO that link on the ASAP is the weak link and guys even run the ASAP and cut off that link. Not a bad idea either.
I am no engineer but myself and others have simply devised methods that address these issues while having a 1pt to 2 pt convertible sling, in what we consider to be a more ideal sling set up such as the Vickers.
Again, to Magpul's credit, they have identified that there are bugs in their MS2 / ASAP combo and are planning to address many of the discussed shortcomings of the sling / mount combo, with the release of the upcoming MS3. At least that is what it sounds like.
On the two point VTAC/VCAS, do most of you guys attach the rear to the castle nut or take it all the way back to the end of the stock? I noticed several doing it both ways.
KCFor a 2 point, that really is user choice and I see it run just as much both ways. For myself I prefer the endplate attachment. This is how I run my rifle 95%+ of the time. When I cinch the rifle down, it sits higher and more secure on my kit. Since I am not exactly tall this keeps the rifle away from my legs when I am moving or hands free. I also prefer how the sling transitions from primary to support, or vise versa from the endplate mounted position. If I do switch the rifle to single point, the endplate attachment point is a must IMO.
Having said that, I have most of my rifles set up with either a Noveske or Daniel Defense QD endplate and some type of rail with QD's. I attach QD swivel's to the slings. Since all of the stocks that I use have a rear QD, I have the option to run it one way or another. On the 2 rifles that I run UBR's on, they have front and rear QD sockets, so that option still remains. If you are a fan of the single point, you will more than likely need it to be connected at the endplate area. I do like the rear sling attachment at the end of the stock if I have the rifle slung over my back muzzle down. Muzzle up either connection works for me.
I know this sounds like quite a few options, but it really is pretty simple.
Surf,
There is more than one way to sound proof your gear which will allow you to maintain the quick release and ambidextrious use. If using the VCAS or Vickers is easier and fits your needs better then drive on.
Robb Jensen
02-28-10, 19:05
I use both single point and single point slings. Basically for 14.5" 7lb and lighter guns I like single points. For 14.5"+ 7lb+ rifles I like 2 points.
For 2 point slings my choice is a padded Blue Force Gear Vickers Combat Applications sling.
For single points I like the GEAR Sector ASP sling and the Magpul MS2. I'm patiently awaiting the MS3. The P.I.G. single point looks promising, I would love to try one of these.
Surf,
There is more than one way to sound proof your gear which will allow you to maintain the quick release and ambidextrious use. If using the VCAS or Vickers is easier and fits your needs better then drive on.
I would attempt to get some black plasti-dip and selectively dip the loop and the oval ring. I had a machine at a job that had some noisy chains that were muffled when we dipped them. The only concern becomes the reduction in the loop size from the dip. You could also remove the factory ring, dip the loop on the plate and then buy a larger threaded chain connector and use heat shrink tuning over it.
ColdDeadHands
02-28-10, 19:29
I use both single point and single point slings.
:D:D:p
ColdDeadHands
02-28-10, 19:32
I use a Vickers padded 2 point on my heavier, soon to be scoped Noveske Recon and will install the ASAP w/ MS2 on my Light Reece Basic next week...we'll see how that works out for me.
Kentucky Cop
02-28-10, 19:42
I use both single point and single point slings. Basically for 14.5" 7lb and lighter guns I like single points. For 14.5"+ 7lb+ rifles I like 2 points.
For 2 point slings my choice is a padded Blue Force Gear Vickers Combat Applications sling.
For single points I like the GEAR Sector ASP sling and the Magpul MS2. I'm patiently awaiting the MS3. The P.I.G. single point looks promising, I would love to try one of these.
I recently saw the PIG sling offerings. It looked like it may be a contender and appeared to a novice like myself that it was almost like the Vickers padded 2 point sling with different ends. FWIW, the PIG vest/rig looked good to but I would have liked to see it fit soft armor also such as the Diamond Back UTOC or Mayflower. (Thats a different thread that I am sure will appear when they start shipping.) Sorry for the derail.
Anyways, I think your just the man to T/E one of the PIG slings and compare it to the BFG's/VTAC/VCAS slings. :D
Thanks, KC
Like the 2 point for 16" and above, like the single for SBRs. YMMV.
I agree I run a BFG UDC single point on my SBR and then BFG VCAS 2 pt on my longer rifles.
Cameron
Kentucky Cop
02-28-10, 21:45
I think I am sold on the BFG 2 point padded sling. Not sure what model as I think there are at least two padded ones they offer. What is the best hardware to use to attach it to my Troy extreme 13' rail and at the end plate? Its going on my duty rifle thats on order M&P15 TS. Thanks...
DISREGARD... I found some hardware I like on the VTAC website. Really like the LUSA hook or swivel attachment. Nice instructional video too.
Kentucky Cop
Blankwaffe
02-28-10, 22:57
This is one of the biggest issues I have with the ASAP and MS2. Imagine stalking 2 legged creatures that shoot back.
I did at one time as a LEO door kicker.Heck I still have a hard time breaking the habit of putting rubber bands on my keys.Needless to say I dont like being Col. Clink even if the animals dont shoot back.Noise discipline is important I think.
As far as the MS2 and ASAP,duct tape did the job,but also did away with the QR system.I think if they used an elastic band/cover of some sort similar to what Eagle Ind. uses on their HK kooks,that would still allow the QR tether to function,anything would help though.I actually had considered dipping the metal attachments in plasticoat just to see if that helped in the short term.
But I liked the Vickers two point so well I just ran with it and sold the MS2 setup.
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