MS2 Sling with CQD Front Attachment

[Count Chocula]

Anyone running this set up? I currently have it on my patrol rifle and I really like the sling in one point mode. I bought a CQD front attachment because it seemed like the best fit for the two point mode.

Well, it has failed on me twice. Once while I was searching a homless camp for guns, and once on a dog track. Both times the sling was in two point and slung across my back. Luckily I felt the sling break lose both times and was able to catch my rifle before it hit the deck.

I was looking at the CQD and even if I dremel the hell out of it I don't know if there will be enough room for the sling "claw" to move freely.

Any suggestions to mod the CQD or any other sling attachments that might work better?

[ColdDeadHands]

nvm...

[usaffarmer]

Magpul should be releasing the front sling point that works with the MS2 soon. At least thats what the "spring" date means to me.

[Slippers]

More than a few people have switched out the claw to an hk snaphook or itw mash hook. You might consider one or the other.

[D. Christopher]

Are you using the lock on the MS2 claw?

[Lee Indy]

swap for the snap hook or use a sling swivel. that attachment they used is garbage and they know it so theyre releaseing the ms3 soon. only change is attachments.

[Jimbo45]

The MS2 hardware is junk, at both ends, in my opinion. That silly alligator clamp doo dad, let go on me, too! Plus, the adjustment method of the MS2 just seems backwards to me, too...pulling the loop back behind your back to tighten?????

I sold my MS2, and came up with my own version of a convertible sling. I used a VCAS 2 point, utilizing the fastex quick release at the front with an HK hook, and adding a d-ring and mash hook, to attach to the ASAP. I originally had HK hooks on both ends, but the ASAP had a knack for auto-unlock for the HK hook. This setup is perfect, in my opinion. I would suggest, at a minimum, lose that aligator clamp for a $5 HK hook, and be assured that your rifle won't get dumped.
I generally love anything Magpul, but the MS2 was a flop in my opinion. I hope they get the bugs worked out with the MS3.

[westcoastfrog]

i've been running the ms2 with a cqd forward sling attachment for about a year now and have never had it fail as long as i am using the lock. the magpul hardware is kind of trivial in my opinion. i like the gucci gear as much as the next guy but i don't take up the things have worked out for me so far so i don't really stress over them. i'm sure there's better stuff out there and maybe i'll swap sometime when i have less things to worry about. i will say that the cqd is not ideal for the 2-point role. since i'm kind of a cheap ass i was thinking about moding mine....again if i really find myself with an overabundance of time on my hands. slings/attachments are a very personal preference specific issue. no one company is going to make a product that pleases everybody in every way.

[TxSoldier]

I have had this same delimma. I am still trying to figure out what I want to use as a front sling mount.

[D. Christopher]

To the OP and Jimbo45, are you saying the MS2 claw came off even after you locked it? Or are you just clipping it on and not locking it? The claw is designed to attach to a D-ring or circular ring, but if there are any corners where it can bind it has to be locked or else the leverage will overpower the spring in the claw. Look at the jaws of the clip and you can see that it has to be on a ring so that it has a straight pull, an assymetric load will pry the jaw open every time unless you use the lock on the claw.

The MS2 hardware may not be the best out there, but it does work within the design limits. Magpul should have had more detailed instructions that pointed out these limitations. These aren't things you want to discover in the field, but sometimes that's just the way it goes with new gear until (literally) all the kinks are worked out. Talk to Magpul if you are unhappy, they will work with you to make it right.

[Count Chocula]

To the OP and Jimbo45, are you saying the MS2 claw came off even after you locked it? Or are you just clipping it on and not locking it? The claw is designed to attach to a D-ring or circular ring, but if there are any corners where it can bind it has to be locked or else the leverage will overpower the spring in the claw. Look at the jaws of the clip and you can see that it has to be on a ring so that it has a straight pull, an assymetric load will pry the jaw open every time unless you use the lock on the claw.

The MS2 hardware may not be the best out there, but it does work within the design limits. Magpul should have had more detailed instructions that pointed out these limitations. These aren't things you want to discover in the field, but sometimes that's just the way it goes with new gear until (literally) all the kinks are worked out. Talk to Magpul if you are unhappy, they will work with you to make it right.

Mine was not locked. You guys are right , I'm sure it would have stayed put if locked but that little guy is a pain in the ass. Guess it's better than losing the rifle though... I will still probably go to the HK clip, as it will probably be easier to use at night with gloves on.

And I am pretty happy with the sling it's self. I like the design, just the claw leaves a little to be desired in my opinion.

Thanks to all for the suggestions.

[Jimbo45]

To the OP and Jimbo45, are you saying the MS2 claw came off even after you locked it? Or are you just clipping it on and not locking it? The claw is designed to attach to a D-ring or circular ring, but if there are any corners where it can bind it has to be locked or else the leverage will overpower the spring in the claw. Look at the jaws of the clip and you can see that it has to be on a ring so that it has a straight pull, an assymetric load will pry the jaw open every time unless you use the lock on the claw.

The MS2 hardware may not be the best out there, but it does work within the design limits. Magpul should have had more detailed instructions that pointed out these limitations. These aren't things you want to discover in the field, but sometimes that's just the way it goes with new gear until (literally) all the kinks are worked out. Talk to Magpul if you are unhappy, they will work with you to make it right.
When the aligator clamp failed on me, no, it was not locked. I had just clipped it onto the front mount point in two point mode, and I was swinging the gun behind my back, when it let go. I know it probably would not have failed, if I had locked it. But, this is where the aligator clamp looses its benefit. If you HAVE to lock it each and everytime, then it really isn't all that fast of a connection. That tiny little slide lock, was fairly difficult to manipulate, even without gloves, and I am sure, under stress, it would be even more difficult. Due to this shortcoming, I just didn't realize any benefit of the aligator clamp, over say, a mash or HK hook. I went with an HK hook, which is far cheaper, significantly lighter, more secure (if 'gator is unlocked), and faster than the MS2 clamp. Plus, I don't have to tell anyone, that the aligator clamp is very picky, and limited, when it comes to compatible front mounting point types. I just don't see why Magpul didn't go with an HK hook in the first place.

The other issue I had, was the adjustment system. First, it was just backwards and awkward for me, to pull rearward to tighten, instead of forward. Maybe that is because I am a VCAS user. Plus, the 1" webbing tended to twist and bind up very easy when adjusting.

Again, as previously stated, slings are somewhat of a user's preference, and folks will have different needs. I am sure there are many users of the MS2 that are perfectly happy. Trust me, I have nothing but good things to say about Magpul as a company, and their products. I have spent a LOT of money on Magpul stuff, I really like most of the gear, and will continue to buy it. I just didn't like the MS2, no big deal, so I just sold it. I will check out the MS3 when it comes out, and hopefully it is GTG.

[Belmont31R]

If you dremel the CQD mount it will fit the MS2 alligator claw just fine.


A QD mount also works but then the QD stud tends to flop around, and unless it has rotation limiters its a crappy setup.



Never had the alligator hook come loose on me but I actually use the lock, and they get easier to use the more you use them. Fresh out of the bag the lock is a pain to engage.



My only complaint about the MS2 is the material (flat rope) is uncomfortable for extended periods of time, and tends to dig into my neck. But its not meant for carrying for long periods of time, and would probably go away if I was using it with a vest.

I don't like the design of the CQD plate much. It chewed up my rail getting the thing on, and I had to spread it apart while trying to slide it on the rail. Took a couple good chunks out of a URX rail.




Overall slings are by far the most frustrating part on an AR.....:(

[Kentucky Cop]

I am currently up in the air as to what sling to buy. I am tossed between the MS2 and the 2 point favorite padded Vickers/Blueforce for my duty rifle. I have time and was curious what changes is going to be made to the MS3 in the spring. Everyone I talked to said that the MS2 is just to thin and is in need of some beefing up in several places. Is this going to be rectified with the MS3?

Ky Cop

[D. Christopher]

It's true that the MS2 isn't the easiest clip to detach in a hurry, and I've trained myself to go for the rear quick release in a true emergency. That is just a persoal preference and won't work for many people.

The trick to getting a quicker release from the locked claw is to stick the tip of your thumb into the backside opening of the claw and push up and out on the bottom of the claw lock. I use my thumb to push up and afer just a short amount of travel you can easily roll the serrated top part of the lock quite easily. I like it this way because if it was loose enough to just roll off from the outside with your finger, it would probably come loose by itself.

It's not perfect, and it's not for everybody, but within it's design limits can be quite effective for some. YMMV!

Good luck.

[Lee Indy]

the ms3 is the same sling with different hardware on both ends. i cant find the pictures but there are some from shot show somewhere

[Count Chocula]

Well, I pulled the HK hook off of my AK sling and threw it on the MS2. I like the feel of it and it seems pretty solid. Saturday nights are pretty busy for us and I plan on getting a little rifle time. We'll see if I have any issues and I'll let you guys know.

Once again, thanks guys.

[Citpitch02]

I think a lot of you guys are getting too wrapped around the axel trying to run the sling in it's two point configuration.

It is a single point sling, that happens to have the ability to change into a two point sling for administrative purposes, ie: climbing objects, carry objects, sliding down ropes attached to things hovering in the sky and other tasks besides shooting that require two hands. When fitted correctly it should hug the body fairly snug so as to stay out of your way when in two point mode but still allow the weapon to be brought into action quickly if the need arises.

Keeping that in mind, I lock the jaw clamp on mine all the time. Even in the one point configuration. I can think of a whole host of scenarios where the clamp could unlock itself even in single point configuration, so for me it's just a no brainer to leave it locked.

Like anything else, locking and unlocking the claw comes down to practice and repetition. Simply practicing the transition from one to two point mode and back again several times each time you train will allow you to become proficient with the system.

But as others have said, if that is not something you are willing to train for then there are definitely plenty of other quality slings on the market for a shooter to use.

[Lee Indy]

its not a single point or a two point. its a convertible. why shouldn't it work both ways

[Jimbo45]

I think a lot of you guys are getting too wrapped around the axel trying to run the sling in it's two point configuration.

It is a single point sling, that happens to have the ability to change into a two point sling for administrative purposes, ie: climbing objects, carry objects, sliding down ropes attached to things hovering in the sky and other tasks besides shooting that require two hands. When fitted correctly it should hug the body fairly snug so as to stay out of your way when in two point mode but still allow the weapon to be brought into action quickly if the need arises.

Keeping that in mind, I lock the jaw clamp on mine all the time. Even in the one point configuration. I can think of a whole host of scenarios where the clamp could unlock itself even in single point configuration, so for me it's just a no brainer to leave it locked.

Like anything else, locking and unlocking the claw comes down to practice and repetition. Simply practicing the transition from one to two point mode and back again several times each time you train will allow you to become proficient with the system.

But as others have said, if that is not something you are willing to train for then there are definitely plenty of other quality slings on the market for a shooter to use.

Not willing to learn and train????? Come on, now. Just because a product is over engineered, for no real benefit (the aligator clamp), it is not necessarily evidence of lack of knowledge or training. Why not simplify things (with an HK hook) to make everyone's life easier? I prolly train as much as the next guy, but I don't care how long you fiddle with that MS2, it is still awkward to convert. If you have no need to convert to two point, then good for you, MS2 is sweet. But then again, why not just run a one point sling???? Some of us need to be able to quickly move from a one point to a two point system. For example: a cop that clears a large buisiness or school, then encounters a suspect, and needs to cuff same, or escort same, or simply climb, or traverse a fence, or aid a downed friendly. All these things are done in any normal and adequate LE training. Two point mode is necessary for some of us. Don't slam us for wanting the MS2 to perform as intended and marketed....as a CONVERTIBLE sling.

[Citpitch02]

Not willing to learn and train????? Come on, now. Just because a product is over engineered, for no real benefit (the aligator clamp), it is not necessarily evidence of lack of knowledge or training. Why not simplify things (with an HK hook) to make everyone's life easier? I prolly train as much as the next guy, but I don't care how long you fiddle with that MS2, it is still awkward to convert. If you have no need to convert to two point, then good for you, MS2 is sweet. But then again, why not just run a one point sling???? Some of us need to be able to quickly move from a one point to a two point system. For example: a cop that clears a large buisiness or school, then encounters a suspect, and needs to cuff same, or escort same, or simply climb, or traverse a fence, or aid a downed friendly. All these things are done in any normal and adequate LE training. Two point mode is necessary for some of us. Don't slam us for wanting the MS2 to perform as intended and marketed....as a CONVERTIBLE sling.

Hey brother not slamming anyone here. Just making a point regarding the slings intended use. Matter of fact you repeated some of my same statements
(climbing objects, carrying objects, sliding down ropes attached to things hovering in the sky and other tasks besides shooting that require two hands)regarding why one would need to convert it to it's two point configuration.

Listening to any of the folks at Magpul discuss their intended use for the sling you will see that it is primarily a one point sling with ability to convert to two point for accomplishing tasks that require the shooter to use their hands for something other than controlling the weapon.

Regarding the HK hooks, if shooters prefer those to the alligator clamp then rock on! We are all different and what works for one may not work for someone else. My point is that for me it's not that difficult to operate the sling using it's original equipment.

I look at that lock on the clamp like the safety on my rifle. Just like I disengage the safety only when my sights are on a threat and engage the safety when they are not, If I lock the clamp everytime regardless of what configuration it is in then it becomes second nature over time to unlock and lock the sytem going from either configuration. Again for me it was a training issue that I was able to overcome with practice. If other shooters are able to find a way to utilize the system differently and it works better for them, well then that's what it's all about!

[Jimbo45]

Fair enough. But, can you tell me what the advantage is, of the aligator clamp? I just don't see any advantage to it, regardless of the amount of training I would invest with it.

[Lee Indy]

the only possible advantage is it opening like this < as apposed to having to manuver a snap hook or carbiner style clip.

[Jimbo45]

the only possible advantage is it opening like this < as apposed to having to manuver a snap hook or carbiner style clip.

Thats my point. I don't see that as an advantage (compared to an HK hook), in either tactical or administrative environments.

[Citpitch02]

Honestly dude I think the alligator clamp is faster to hook/unhook even if it is locked. Having used the HK style hooks, and actually I still run them on my VTAC sling, sometimes I find it can be a pain in the arse to open the bail and unhook from an attachment point using the HK hooks. Add gloves to the mix and it's even harder.

All I do is reach up and unlock the alligator clamp as I am opening it and then drive it directly down the CQD, clamp and lock it in one motion. Bam. Done. If it's sticking straight out...who cares it's locked. If it's flush to the handguard...who cares it's locked. It doesn't need to be able to rotate freely in the CQD while in a two point configuration. It's just in two point mode long enough for me to do what I have to do and then get it back into the one point configuration.

Try throwing the alligator clamp back on and practice locking and unlocking it everytime you move it. Then put yourself on a timer and see which one is faster. Then which ever one is easier/faster for you keep...and shit can the other one.

Cheers!

[Jimbo45]

.....
Honestly dude I think the alligator clamp is faster to hook/unhook even if it is locked. Having used the HK style hooks, and actually I still run them on my VTAC sling, sometimes I find it can be a pain in the arse to open the bail and unhook from an attachment point using the HK hooks. Add gloves to the mix and it's even harder. Ok, that is what I was looking for. I was curious if anyone actually felt the aligator clamp was faster/easier. Everyone is different, as we all know.
All I do is reach up and unlock the alligator clamp as I am opening it and then drive it directly down the CQD, clamp and lock it in one motion. Bam. Done. If it's sticking straight out...who cares it's locked. If it's flush to the handguard...who cares it's locked. Thats just the problem with it for me...it DOES have to be locked. It dropped my gun once in two point mode, when I didn't lock it. It doesn't need to be able to rotate freely in the CQD while in a two point configuration. It's just in two point mode long enough for me to do what I have to do and then get it back into the one point configuration.

Try throwing the alligator clamp back on and practice locking and unlocking it everytime you move it. Then put yourself on a timer and see which one is faster. Then which ever one is easier/faster for you keep...and shit can the other one. I don't own the MS2 anymore, but I did do quite a bit of trial and evaluation with it. The HK hook worked better for me. Again, everyone is different. I do hope to give the MS3 a shot though, as it looks like they simplified and redesigned the clamp, and are using it at both ends of the sling, on the MS3. Good discussion, thanks.
Cheers!

[Dozer]

The issue is that, to date, there is no suitable front sling attachment. Most people will use the CQD mount because it is the most simple to modify. However the issue still remains because if the lower part of the lock jaw is left unmodified then it will still create a levering effect. I had to modify the lower part of the lock jaw as shown on the image below in order to mitigate that problem.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r29/l_jimenez30/IMG_36071.jpg

As you can see on the additional images I modified the sling mount as well and the work on both ensures that I don’t run into that issue any longer.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r29/l_jimenez30/IMG_36081.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r29/l_jimenez30/IMG_36101.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r29/l_jimenez30/IMG_36111.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r29/l_jimenez30/IMG_36131.jpg

I hope this helps.

S/F
Dozer

[Lee Indy]

interesting.



so any official word on the RSA

[Dozer]

Time frame for the RSA is Spring '10.

[Citpitch02]

.....

Roger that Jimbo!

I'll most likely give the MS3 a shot as well and probably try out the RSA too just for good measure!

[Count Chocula]

Sweet pics, thanks for posting them. That's what I was originally looking for. The alligator clip is very fast and I like that aspect of it. But like others I think the downside of it is the tiny lock that is a PITA to work. This negates any advantage that the alligator claw would give you in the first place.

With a mod like in the pics it looks like you could use the sling in 2 point without having to lock the claw. It is like having your cake and eating it too (I love cake).

I bought the sling because it is a convertible. I think it is ok to expect the sling to work as advertised, and if there is an issue with it then you naturally want to fix it. I like the sling in one point, but for me it is ridiculous to try to lock the claw in two point when you are running, or in a hurry to hop a fence, its cold and you have gloves on, ect. I have seen dudes on dog tracks have huge, gear yard sales and slow everything down. Even saw one dude ask the handler to hold his rifle for him while they climbed a fence. I refuse to be that guy. It's not safe for anyone, and if there is a way to be better I will strive for it. Be it in tactics or gear. I kinda see the mods people are making to the sling as evolution, and obviously there is a need for it because Magpul is coming out with the new version.

I love all the Magpul gear I have and I am not bashing them. Travis and Chris are cool guys and I don't think they would ever put out gear that was crap. In the MS2's case it just needs a little tweaking.

[Lee Indy]

http://dsgarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1366&redirect=yes

[img]http://dsgarms.com/images/products/DDRFMLPAKwmk.jpg[img/]

why wait for the RSA

[Count Chocula]

Looks like it would work. Huge, but functional.

[one]

I purchased an MS2 and ASAP plate off of a dealer at the Tulsa gunshow Saturday and have spent the last two days running it and alternating configurations between single and two point.

I really haven't found the alligator clamp to be any problem at all. After reading this thread I paid particular attention to the details of locking and unlocking and wanted to run through it as many times as possible.

While I'll admit that it may be somewhat awkward at first it didn't take long to snap and unsnap the cam lock when I transitioned points. As others have stated in this thread it's definetly a practice makes perfect application but not one I'd be concerned with on my own use.

The one point that I did dislike about the sling was the 360 swivel component at the interface of the clamp. I really don't care for this feature on slings or sling swivel mounting points. I'm sure there's a reason for the application but all it's ever served me for is winding a sling up.

Still it was an easy solve with the addition of a couple of zip ties cinched down to prevent it turning. Not ideal, but I'm happy enough with it now.

I do have to say that the material wouldn't have been my first choice, nor the width of it. I'm used to using two point Vicker's slings and really, really like the canvas that they're produced in. The width is perfect on those as well. But still, having said that I knew exactly what I was getting with the purchase since I was allowed to take it out of the package and examine it before buying.

Overall. I'm pretty happy with it.

Now on to the ASAP plate. I LOVE this item. Transitions from shoulder to shoulder are virtually effortless now. Which is the real reason I bought the whole set up. It's a simple matter to basically slightly elevate the rear of the carbine up and over the sling and let the loop of the plate glide from one side to the other. Great innovation for those that do transitions to weak side shooting, esp. close in around barricades.

Then again we ought to all be doing those in practice.

I think the poster that combined his Vicker's sling with the Magpul D ring and small clamp section of the ms2 sling should get some type of site award. That is the best "joining" of two systems I've seen in a long time.