View Full Version : Essential medical training?
Where is an inexpensive, quality (usually mutually exclusive) source of basic fundamental medical training?
Red Cross? Local college offers EMT training but not first aid stuff. I want to know the fundamentals, how to handle a GSW, broken this/that, deal with shock, etc etc.
Where is an inexpensive, quality (usually mutually exclusive) source of basic fundamental medical training?
Red Cross? Local college offers EMT training but not first aid stuff. I want to know the fundamentals, how to handle a GSW, broken this/that, deal with shock, etc etc.
Your location could probably help people from various locations suggest where to take first aid classes and get more advanced training as a followup to that if you were interested.
Gutshot John
02-27-10, 10:26
For what you're talking about the "First Responder" is probably your best bet to get the broadest overview, most intensity for the most reasonable price.
I don't know if this is local to you but I did a quick search on "First Responder Classes California" and this is what I came up with. You can refine a search more local to you they should be pretty common.
http://hr.caltech.edu/Education/courses/first_responder.htm
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Look up local ' tactical medicine' courses in your area, also try contacting your state swat assoc, some offer 1 week tac med courses or look up local phtls classes. Hope this helps.
Red Cross Wilderness First Aid is not a bad place to start to get some basics.
Gutshot John
02-28-10, 10:29
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Look up local ' tactical medicine' courses in your area, also try contacting your state swat assoc, some offer 1 week tac med courses or look up local phtls classes. Hope this helps.
Neither of those are really appropriate for "basic fundamental training."
As an Emergency Room RN for some 15 years I don't want to discourage you from getting some basic training. However, care can get complex and training even more so. Meaning a two day or two week class without refresher and continued training often leaves too few skills an a illusion of help. Sure in a SHTF scenario, any help is "probably" better than none but that may NOT be true. Example, your friend is down on the ground, alive speaking with a large butcher knife stuck in his gut, what's the first thing you do? Many would pull out the knife, that's wrong.
Look modern shock trauma survival rate is directly related with the time it takes to get to a trauma center. EMS is more often told to scoop and go, stabilize in route, if you can not in the field. Not because they don't have skills or training, however, survival odds decrease with time. ABC, airway, breathing, circulation.
Learn basic "Life Support" for sure CPR a few hour course at the Red Cross. Learn basic First Aid, how to stop bleeding, what to do for a "sucking chest wound" if you want some GSW chops. Hey, you are not going to set a broken leg, you can learn how to splint or stabilize a fracture. Most Community Colleges will offer some form of First Aid Training, there you can also meet people in the field, learn about more advanced training.
It's possible that a situation may evolve where you are the only source of help, even with minimal training, fine. However, one must be aware not to make a situation worse by delaying available treatment, remember, sometimes a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Even a highly trained individual taking required ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support we do it every 2 years) which at the risk of being over simplified, qualifies an individual to run a "Code" including, peripheral access, intubation, drugs, defibrillation, we are repeatedly told except for V-Fib where we might go straight to shock to FIRST activate the 911 system, or get "skilled" support depending where we are at. Meaning if I got a "Crash Cart" the odds are I'm in a hospital.
Take a course, take a course by an EMS Crew, they tend to be hardass. Hardest ACLS courses I've had are taught by at least a solid core of EMS people. Just remember the most important thing is first, do no harm. That is harder than it sounds without constant training AND real experience.
Take a 16 week Basic EMT class at your local community college. The class will cover all of the BASIC fundamentals of Shock/Trauma Resuscitation which is really what is important as far as taking care of GSWs, Stabbings. & etc. The hardest part of the course for the average student in learning the anatomy & physiology of the human body unless you have already taken an A&P class.
Good Luck
HowardCohodas
03-11-10, 08:58
Here we have classes to become Certified First Medical Responders. The class I attended was made up of 19 LEOs and me.
A trauma surgeon of my acquaintance told me that the key is maintaining breathing and stop blood loss. If you can get the person to him, he can deal with the rest. Except in unusual circumstances, doing anything else may not be advisable as you may do more harm than good.
Refreshers are useful. For example, when I took the class, the recommendation for both CPR and use of tourniquet was out sync with recommendations by the military and trauma community. You have to answer the test with the old teaching to get your certification, but you need to keep up with research.
Here we have classes to become Certified First Medical Responders. The class I attended was made up of 19 LEOs and me.
A trauma surgeon of my acquaintance told me that the key is maintaining breathing and stop blood loss. If you can get the person to him, he can deal with the rest. Except in unusual circumstances, doing anything else may not be advisable as you may do more harm than good.
Refreshers are useful. For example, when I took the class, the recommendation for both CPR and use of tourniquet was out sync with recommendations by the military and trauma community. You have to answer the test with the old teaching to get your certification, but you need to keep up with research.
Unfortunately where I come from most trauma surgeons from our level 1 facilities have no clue about pre-hospital emergency medicine. You hit the nail on the head with Airway, Breathing, & Circulation. However there is a lot more a seasoned medic with good street/field smarts can do to make that trauma surgeon have a lot better chance of successfully resuscitating a multi-systems trauma patient. No offense, but it sounds like your surgeon acquaintance is either brand new to medicine and green under the collar or has been around since the 60's and has refused to let his perspective evolve the way pre-hospital emergency care has.
Just my $0.02 though!
No offense, but your surgeon friend sounds as if he would want nothing else done besides what you listed, almost like flopping a patient on the bed fully clothed and have the most non-invasive clinical procedures performed in the pre-hospital setting.
Gutshot John
03-11-10, 20:35
Take a 16 week Basic EMT class at your local community college. The class will cover all of the BASIC fundamentals of Shock/Trauma Resuscitation which is really what is important as far as taking care of GSWs, Stabbings. & etc. The hardest part of the course for the average student in learning the anatomy & physiology of the human body unless you have already taken an A&P class.
Good Luck
If you have an infinite amount of time, money and effort it's a great idea. To become effective with all that training you also need practical experience (i.e. work, volunteer etc.) which is not really feasible for most people here. You don't become "street-smart" without spending time on the street.
For something a bit more straightforward, essential and relevant to 99% of laypersons a first responder is probably a lot more appropriate. An EMT-B class goes well beyond "essential" given the needs stated by the OP and may be prohibitive. I recommend doing it if the person has the interest, but it shouldn't stop anyone from the very real and effective training you get in first responder class.
A first responder class is perfectly adequate and relevant to GSW treatment in the environment most here find themselves in.
Unfortunately where I come from most trauma surgeons from our level 1 facilities have no clue about pre-hospital emergency medicine.
Huh? Are you sure you don't want to qualify that a bit? I can't tell you how many trauma surgeons have ridden along in my rig, usually it's required for some length of time, most do it because they like to. Even still I'd be hard-pressed to dismiss four years of med school followed by 4-6 years of internship, residency and fellowships that most trauma surgeons at level 1 facilities have to go through just to get credentialed. That's hardly "brand new to medicine."
As a medic you're a short-term solution. The trauma surgeon is the long-term solution. Obviously a different emphasis but I'd still follow the doc's advice. That's why you have medical command.
HowardCohodas
03-11-10, 20:44
No offense, but it sounds like your surgeon acquaintance is either brand new to medicine and green under the collar or has been around since the 60's and has refused to let his perspective evolve the way pre-hospital emergency care has.
Just my $0.02 though!
No offense taken.
Since I do not have his permission, I will not disclose his name, however he is ex military, a practicing physician and on the faculty of a well know institution.
My Mom was an RN, I have cousins and uncles who are doctors, and I have worked for a company that provides medical equipment and have worked jointly with groups including doctors and technicians. All of us feel that as much as we think we know, we know we have a lot to learn.
Bottom line... Even among professionals, opinions vary. So due diligence on all of our parts is a basic necessity.
I have taught all levels of EMS classes from FR to Paramedic. IMHO I feel that a FR Course is basically CPR & First Aid rammed down a student's throat in the shortest amount of time. The only REAL difference I can find between a FR Course & an EMT-Basic one is the EMT-B goes a lot more in depth in the studies of anatomy and physiology and lasts 16 weeks or 7 college credit hours versus FR witch I think carries only 3 credit hours in length.
My apologies to all of the ruffled feathers I may have caused.
Like greetings dude, been banned from LCP, liberal trouble maker! I'll try to avoid the politics. In Texas, SPI had the little trusty LCP for the drive. However, recently got a Predator and killing paper at the range easy out to the 100 yard limit (just like the LCP at 7 yards).
Basic, first aid, CPR and yes ABC's is what to know. Unless it's your job, EMS, Nurse or MD or even if you are, FIRST do no harm, in general basic support really helps. Make sure there is air, nothing stuck in throat pt able to breath or you must do it for him. Make sure he has a pulse, again if not you must do it for him, CPR. If he is bleeding, pressure try to stop the bleeding. In all cases, unless the S(has)HTF and there is no support activate the 911 system FIRST. In real life, when EMS shows up to the ER with a cardiac arrest and says no CPR until the rig arrived this person is toast, four minutes without a pulse and you are dead, probably much less. With CPR you have extended the time and chances of survival.
mkmckinley
03-15-10, 10:20
Data from OEF-A and OIF has shown that stopping massive bleeding is the first priority for GSW and blast patients. They key is to stop the bad bleeding very fast and move on to airway right away. When I teach a TCCC class I use MARCH instead of ABC's:
Massive Hemorrhage (IE place a tourniquet or pack an arterial bleed)
Airway (can they move air in and out of their lungs?)
Respirations (are they breathing on their own or do you need to do it for them? Do they have a hemo/pneumothorax or hole in the chest wall? )
Circulation (shock, lower priority bleeders)
Hypothermia (pretty much every serious trauma patient can benefit from a blanket, even if it seems warm out. If you're not a little too warm the patient is too cold. The lower the body temp the lower the blood's ability to clot)
With a wife in medical school, I can attest to the importance of A&P knowledge, and the perishability of this knowledge.
I'm really seeing how inadequate our CLS training is - good thread.
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