Increasing small arms lethality in Afghanistan

[VooDoo6Actual]

Increasing small arms lethality in Afghanistan

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA512331&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

[sgalbra76]

A lot of good info, and just one more article by a subject matter expert pointing out the 800lb gorilla that has been in the room for decades.

[Safetyhit]

A lot of good info, and just one more article by a subject matter expert pointing out the 800lb gorilla that has been in the room for decades.


The odd thing is that he initially suggested the possibility of a 5.56 that performs better, but if not that then...

It seemed to set the tone. But it was a fascinating, detailed read.

[danpass]

Just started reading, thanks.

Already, in the abstract, it tells me that the Army needs more SDMs or at least more SDM-like training at the Basic level.


from Page 4:

The reorganization of the infantry squad in 1960 eliminated the M1D sniper rifle and resulted in the loss of the precision mid-range capability of the infantry squad. The modern solution to this problem is the squad designated marksman. The concept of the squad designated marksman is that a soldier receives the training necessary to engage targets beyond the 300-meter range limitation of current marksmanship programs, but below the 600 meter capability of actual snipers. As of June 2009, the equipment and training of the squad designated marksman has yet to be standardized. In field manual 3-22.9 there are only fourteen pages dedicated to training the squad designated marksman.



from Field Manual 3-22.9 Rifle Marksmanship:

7-29. MISSION OF THE SQUAD DESIGNATED MARKSMAN
The primary mission of the SDM is to deploy as a member of the rifle squad. The SDM is a vital member of his individual squad and not a squad sniper. He fires and maneuvers with his squad and performs all the duties of the standard rifleman. The SDM has neither the equipment nor training to operate individually or in a small team to engage targets at extended ranges with precision fires.
The secondary mission of the SDM is to engage key targets from 300 to 500 meters with effective, well-aimed fires using the standard weapon system and standard ammunition. He may or may not be equipped with an optic. The SDM must, therefore, possess a thorough understanding and mastery of the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship as well as ballistics, elevation and windage hold-off, sight manipulation, and range estimation.



I find that this resistance, this 'corporate' inertia, to quickly embrace individual marksmanship to be, objectively speaking, negligent and, Subjectively speaking, Criminally negligent.

[Belmont31R]

While I do think a better round or caliber would help just by itself I get the impression that much of this is based on the fact we do not control the high ground, and our troops are too over loaded to close with the enemy. To make up for this we need a round that is more accurate, and does more damage at extended ranges.




I do applaud the effort as I always though general weapons and marksmanship training was lacking (which definately can and should be improved)...a better round does nothing to help our guys having to climb billy goat hills, and the fact the Taliban can pick spots on the top of a mountain, and shoot down on our guys. Even 600M, and having an effective cartridge for that range isn't a "makeup" when you are fighting on 10-16k foot mountains.


More troops, a better round, and basic load weight kept under 40lbs.

[m4fun]

Wow - excellent article. Not much there that I hadn't already devoted brain cells to, but in a very consise (50+ pages) pdf. Sad he didn't recognise Chuck Santose on the IBSZ.

More focused on change in caliber than improving what is there, but not too far to make it another doc of change.

[snappy]

Great read. Thanks Hop.

[ForTehNguyen]

some notable parts:


Leaders have a tendency to repeat the things they learned while coming up through the ranks, without questioning the background of the information. One area of misinformation is the idea that it is a necessity of the M16/M4 to be parade-ground clean. Part of this is due to the backlash from the early failures of the M16 in Vietnam. The other reason is a complete lack of education on the weapon systems beyond basic training or the basic officer’s course.79 Contracted trainers, such as Patrick Rogers80 routinely operate rifles that are not cleaned and only have lubrication added to them before the bolt and bolt carrier become dry. Using only additional lubrication, his weapons have fired over 19,000 rounds without mechanical malfunction.


First, sand and dust are going to get into the rifle. At that point, it is better to have lubricated sand and dust then a dry weapon with sand and dust. The test found that the first magazine removed from the individual’s equipment, which was also in the dust chamber, caused over 90 percent of the malfunctions. The problem was that the ammunition and the magazines where sandy and prevented the weapon from fully chambering the first cartridge. Use of the forward assist when inserting a new magazine dramatically increased reliability. This point of failure emphases the importance of the magazine in the proper function of the weapon. The effect of sand in magazines is greatly reduced with modern designs of the M4 magazines, such as the Magpul PMAG.


The magazine is an important part of the rifle. When originally designed by Eugene Stoner, the magazine was meant to be a lightweight, disposable item. Due to this concept, the magazine was made from aluminum and not designed to be durable. Soldiers soon learned that the magazine was not disposable and that care was required to keep the weapon reliable.86 There are several things that soldiers can do to ensure their magazines work.


Several upgrades are available to increase the reliability of the issued magazines. A company called Magpul makes the best upgrades the author has used. Their original product consisted of a slip-on rubber ring for the bottom of the magazine. It made it easier to grasp your magazines from your ammunition pouches but also protected the delicate floor plate tabs, which have a tendency to break after extended use. They also designed a new, anti-tilt follower that greatly increases feeding reliability of the standard issue magazine.
In 2007, the company came out with their own version of a magazine for the M16/M4 known as the PMAG. Constructed of resilient polymer, the magazine is nearly indestructible. (Figure 8) When the polymer cracks or breaks, it is easily recognizable, unlike with the standard issue magazines. These magazines represent the cutting edge of technology for making the rifle more reliable. Recently, the PMAG was assigned a national stock number, so units can now order these magazines through the supply system.87 All combat arms units should consider replacing their standard issue magazines with the much more reliable PMAG.

basically saying they should be zeroing at 50 yards, not 25 yards

The general issue is that doctrine recommends only one way to accomplish a zero for a rifle and no alternative techniques are discussed or recommended. This demonstrates a lack of understanding of ballistics and the importance of different battlesight zeros. Since it is now understood that the M16/M4 is most lethal within 200 meters, the standard battlesight zero should reflect that understanding. Zeroing the rifle or carbine at a distance of 50 meters will keep the maximum ordinate of the M855 round within one inch of the point of aim from 25 meters to 200 meters, where is crosses the line of sight again. This zero combined with the accuracy potential of the ammunition and the shooter will keep the strike of rounds within the chest area of a target out to a distance of 250 meters. This zero can provide lethal hits out to a distance of 320 meters, with rounds impacting in the vascular region of the lower abdomen and groin.


Another concept of the qualification course that is outdated, is the requirement to fire one round per target. This requirement remains in the current version of the marksmanship manual. It programs soldiers to believe that one round that hits the target will be enough to incapacitate or kill them or that if they miss the target, that they should stop engaging it. This flawed mental training is evident in a report prepared by the Marines addressing combat marksmanship. In it, the interviewer learned that Marines believed that they had hit the enemy numerous times and the 5.56-mm cartridge had failed to incapacitate the threat. In areas were the enemy was eventually killed or captured, the Marines learned that what they thought were hits, were actually misses. In several instances Marines called their shots as a center of mass hit and upon finding the enemy realized that their hits where in an extremity and not life threatening


Criticisms of the reliability of the M4 result from a lack of effective doctrine and training. A renewed focus on the actual requirements for maintaining the M4 carbine will result in improved performance and confidence in the weapon. Reliability of the system can be drastically increased with the use of new magazines such as the Magpul PMAG or the careful maintenance and slight modification of the aluminum magazine. Lubrication and dust testing continues to favor CLP as the best overall lubricant and a generous application of lubrication on the primary wear points of the bolt and bolt carrier for operations in sandy environments. Periodic replacement of high wear parts such as the extractor, bolt, and action spring will keep the weapon operational almost indefinitely.

[GermanSynergy]

Outstanding article. Thanks for sharing.

[Dienekes]

Great. Started reading it at 11PM and couldn't quit. Much of it was old news but well worth revisiting. Three things jumped out at me: the percentage of incidents involving ranges over 300 yds (50%!); the high ground/terrain issues; and the personal mobility problem. Makes perfect sense though; I live in northern WY where conditions are similar, and my load-carrying capabilities are unfortunately diminishing.

I am just finishing one of the "Great Courses" (www.TEACH12.com) on "The Art of Critical Decision Making" which is very good. What a case study this would make!

Thanks for posting this. Assuming there are no copyright issues I'm thinking of getting a copy printed off and bound for my library.

[Mauser KAR98K]

This is a very well laid out "study" of a subject that has been going on since our launch of Operation Enduring Freedom in 2001. It was almost the first thing that came out was that the 5.56 didn't the effective ranges our guys were facing in Afghanistan. Springfield then received orders for the M-14 to bring the 7.62 into the fray. Then came the 6.8mm. I'm sure everyone here can focus on the time-lines with this, but it is sad the Army hasn't really learned the big lesson.

What is interesting here that the study is primarily about the Army's current doctrine, not the Marine's. From my understanding is that to this day the leathernecks still are qualifying out to 500 meters. it would be very interesting to create a study on how the longer range training of the Marine Corp ranks with the current Army standards while both are in theater.

I also agree that our troops need to be weighed down less. I've never participated in the Army, or any other infantry, but with that said, I don't see myself, even in better shape, marching to conflict with all the gear I've seen our troops carry and expect to fight afterward without a day's rest? And we all no Murphy won't allow that. I don't understand why we aren't doing more helo infills, or vehicle infills, set up FOP's, and then begin the mission of routing out the Taliban while securing diplomatic relations with the locals. I know the inherent problems of getting resupplied out in those areas, but we aren't dealing with a force on force enemy, but an insurgency.

Better training, open arms room, lighter loads, new doctrine. Simple as that.

[SeriousStudent]

.......

What is interesting here that the study is primarily about the Army's current doctrine, not the Marine's. From my understanding is that to this day the leathernecks still are qualifying out to 500 meters. it would be very interesting to create a study on how the longer range training of the Marine Corp ranks with the current Army standards while both are in theater.

........

To the OP, thank you for providing the link. SAMS studies always make fascinating reading.

I agree with Mauser KAR98K. My first thought was what differences are apparent in the field, based on the different training doctrines of those two branches?

Bless the young men and women in harms way, and remember to keep them all in your prayers.

[RogerinTPA]

Excellent article Hop, and I must say, about ****in time. This article should be required reading at every NCO and Officer course, and every Company Grade Officer and NCO prior to deployment.

[danpass]

One of my first thoughts also went along the Army training vs. USMC training.

Whenever I've read about M4/M16 complaints they seem to be Army related.

Is the USMC better at keeping it internal or is the training difference the key?

I'm leaning toward the training difference and the mentality difference: "Every Marine a Rifleman"

[RogerinTPA]

One of my first thoughts also went along the Army training vs. USMC training.

Whenever I've read about M4/M16 complaints they seem to be Army related.

Is the USMC better at keeping it internal or is the training difference the key?

I'm leaning toward the training difference and the mentality difference: "Every Marine a Rifleman"

There was an article that explained USMC marksmanship was geared more towards competition shooting, at known distances to 500M, and the Army's was geared towards pop up targets to 300M, also known distance shooting. Both programs were criticized as being unrealistic to the fluid dynamics of the battlefield.

Shooting out to 500M ain't that hard, but it does eat into training time and resources, to get an individual up to the level of proficiency, to effectively engage NEPUTS (Non Electrical Pop Up Targets) at that distance.

[mattjmcd]

Great post. Thanks.

[danpass]

There was an article that explained USMC marksmanship was geared more towards competition shooting, at known distances to 500M, and the Army's was geared towards pop up targets to 300M, also known distance shooting. Both programs were criticized as being unrealistic to the fluid dynamics of the battlefield.

Shooting out to 500M ain't that hard, but it does eat into training time and resources, to get an individual up to the level of proficiency, to effectively engage NEPUTS (Non Electrical Pop Up Targets) at that distance.

I hear ya. :D

I'd like to see a similar paper as the one in the op for the USMC.
Is there one out there by any chance?

The Marines have their own 'SDM' the SAM, squad advanced marksman.

[Jay Cunningham]

First time I ever heard this:


The problem was that the ammunition and the magazines where sandy and prevented the weapon from fully chambering the first cartridge. Use of the forward assist when inserting a new magazine dramatically increased reliability.

[Belmont31R]

First time I ever heard this:





Ive experienced this.....basically I think the weapon and ammo being exposed to the elements crap builds up, and the 1st cartridge doesn't want to chamber. Hit the forward assist a couple times, and it goes into battery. The shooting of the 1st round blows the crud out so the next rounds chamber fine.



At least in Kuwait and s Iraq there is a lot of that talcum like sand/dust which is so fine it gets into everything especially when the wind is blowing. Really doesn't take long for it to build up inside a weapon. One of the many reasons a least a daily wipe down is criitical to keeping things up and running....but when you are outside all day, and then go to chamber a round it can happen.

[RogerinTPA]

First time I ever heard this:

Me too. I've never ever used it, or had to. Why would anyone want to jam something that's already jammed, further into the chamber, is beyond me.

I think the result of contaminated weapons and mags are from the individual Soldiers and Marines, laying mags and weapons in the dirt, on the rim of their fighting position. Then complain the M-4s are junk after the fact. Simply leaving mags in their pouches and using a little care with the weapon, would cut contamination dramatically.

[Belmont31R]

Me too. I've never ever used it, or had to. Why would anyone want to jam something that's already jammed, further into the chamber, is beyond me.

I think the result of contaminated weapons and mags are from the individual Soldiers and Marines, laying mags and weapons in the dirt, on the rim of their fighting position. Then complain the M-4s are junk after the fact. Simply leaving mags in their pouches and using a little care with the weapon, would cut contamination dramatically.




Kuwait and S. Iraq has a lot of talcum like dust and sand. It gets into everything, and is especially bad when its windy. Pouches are still going to get tons of crap in them. We had a dust storm in Kuwait where it was less than 50M visibility for over a week.


Desert environments are hell on weapons and equipment.


A couple fixes off the top of my head....magazine covers like PMAG's have...use muzzle caps...and some sort of plug into the bottom of the magwell. Of course this does little for people who are at amber or red status.

[RogerinTPA]

Kuwait and S. Iraq has a lot of talcum like dust and sand. It gets into everything, and is especially bad when its windy. Pouches are still going to get tons of crap in them. We had a dust storm in Kuwait where it was less than 50M visibility for over a week.


Desert environments are hell on weapons and equipment.


A couple fixes off the top of my head....magazine covers like PMAG's have...use muzzle caps...and some sort of plug into the bottom of the magwell. Of course this does little for people who are at amber or red status.

Yes, I'm familiar with that kind of sand during desert storm/shield and somalia.

Adhering to a weapon PMCS SOP, lube, and as you say, Pmags with covers, would cure a lot of that though.

[Jay Cunningham]

Ive experienced this.....basically I think the weapon and ammo being exposed to the elements crap builds up, and the 1st cartridge doesn't want to chamber. Hit the forward assist a couple times, and it goes into battery. The shooting of the 1st round blows the crud out so the next rounds chamber fine.



At least in Kuwait and s Iraq there is a lot of that talcum like sand/dust which is so fine it gets into everything especially when the wind is blowing. Really doesn't take long for it to build up inside a weapon. One of the many reasons a least a daily wipe down is criitical to keeping things up and running....but when you are outside all day, and then go to chamber a round it can happen.

Help me out as I've never had to operate a rifle under these conditions. Are we referring to the initial load or is this referring to an emergency reload?

[Jay Cunningham]

Kuwait and S. Iraq has a lot of talcum like dust and sand. It gets into everything, and is especially bad when its windy. Pouches are still going to get tons of crap in them. We had a dust storm in Kuwait where it was less than 50M visibility for over a week.


Desert environments are hell on weapons and equipment.


A couple fixes off the top of my head....magazine covers like PMAG's have...use muzzle caps...and some sort of plug into the bottom of the magwell. Of course this does little for people who are at amber or red status.

Help me out again... I am pretty much working off the assumption that mags are stored rounds pointing down. In this case a PMAG cover isn't really applicable. Now maybe they are carried rounds up somewhere that I'm not familiar with.

[ForTehNguyen]

the floorplates of USGI mags have holes on it, even if they are stored bullets down, sand can find its way in the holes. That dirt and crap probably screws the green follower hard too.

since mags are stored rounds down, i bet sand and stuff accumulates in pouches, fouling that first round

[Jay Cunningham]

the floorplates of USGI mags have holes on it, even if they are stored bullets down, sand can find its way in the holes. That dirt and crap probably screws the green follower hard too.

since mags are stored rounds down, i bet sand and stuff accumulates in pouches, fouling that first round

10 - 4

Does the hole allow sand to drain out of them as well?

[ForTehNguyen]

im not an expert but what I'd think if USGIs got sand in the holes, it would percolate down into all the rounds in the stack. A larger grain of sand can catch that follower and just seize the mag feed.

looking at a couple USGIs I have, theres only one hole at the bottom, the hole you leverage open so you can replace a spring or follower. Thats one spot sand can enter. Then you have where the floorplate meets the mag body, that isnt exactly a sealed deal, so another place for stuff to enter. PMAGs have sealed floorplates and no hole. So thats a few little things that keep adding up to increase reliability. Not to mention the things the report said as well: difficulty in visually detecting out of spec metal mags. Im sure USGIs get dropped, dinged, dented, deformed, etc so sand getting in there further increases chances of a seize. I wonder if anyone cleans their mag pouches. Clean the gun all you want, if that sand is still in the pouch and you insert it with that fouled first round then, clean rifle or PMAGs wont matter in this case.

this is all theoretical just things that come to mind when the hamster in my head runs on its wheel, so feel free to correct me if the hamster is wrong.

[Submariner]

I wonder how ranges to hits were determined.

[Belmont31R]

Help me out as I've never had to operate a rifle under these conditions. Are we referring to the initial load or is this referring to an emergency reload?




Im saying being out in those conditions sand and dust build up in the weapon, and it can be difficult to chamber the very first round. The rest fire and chamber fine.


Even if you start out with a perfectly clean weapon, ammo, and mags it only takes a few minutes in the right conditions to have everything coated with that crap.


Also many time during dust storms a thunderstorm would roll in, and it literally rains mud for about 5-10 minutes until the rain clears the dust out of the air.


As was said storing mags ammo down doesn't help too much because the dust is so fine its going to get in there anyways. It really is like a fine talc powder. Theres not much you can do other than to do daily wipe downs and keep your equipment as clean as you can. We used to buy cans of "dust off"...the compressed CO2 cans for cleaning electronics, and spray our weapons down. It was the best for getting that crap out.

[Belmont31R]

im not an expert but what I'd think if USGIs got sand in the holes, it would percolate down into all the rounds in the stack. A larger grain of sand can catch that follower and just seize the mag feed.

looking at a couple USGIs I have, theres only one hole at the bottom, the hole you leverage open so you can replace a spring or follower. Thats one spot sand can enter. Then you have where the floorplate meets the mag body, that isnt exactly a sealed deal, so another place for stuff to enter. PMAGs have sealed floorplates and no hole. So thats a few little things that keep adding up to increase reliability. Not to mention the things the report said as well: difficulty in visually detecting out of spec metal mags. Im sure USGIs get dropped, dinged, dented, deformed, etc so sand getting in there further increases chances of a seize. I wonder if anyone cleans their mag pouches. Clean the gun all you want, if that sand is still in the pouch and you insert it with that fouled first round then, clean rifle or PMAGs wont matter in this case.

this is all theoretical just things that come to mind when the hamster in my head runs on its wheel, so feel free to correct me if the hamster is wrong.




PMAG's would help I think. With the sealed bottom and cap on the top they would keep the majority of grit out.


I was in for 6 years, and never got any instruction on how to identify a bad magazine. The magazines I was issued were older with lots of finish wear. I upgraded them with magpul ranger plates and followers.


Around Baghdad and up north the sand and dust isn't as big a problem. Theres actually quite a bit of vegetation and water. Down south and Kuwait were horrible for dust storms and generally being a pita.


Never been to afghanistan but from everything Ive gathered its similar to Iraq. The south is desert like while the north and east are mountainous and much more green.


This is the type of crap that people are dealing with:


http://photos14.flickr.com/15908314_643b14ede9_o.jpg

[GermanSynergy]

Is that a pic of Al Asad? :D


PMAG's would help I think. With the sealed bottom and cap on the top they would keep the majority of grit out.


I was in for 6 years, and never got any instruction on how to identify a bad magazine. The magazines I was issued were older with lots of finish wear. I upgraded them with magpul ranger plates and followers.


Around Baghdad and up north the sand and dust isn't as big a problem. Theres actually quite a bit of vegetation and water. Down south and Kuwait were horrible for dust storms and generally being a pita.


Never been to afghanistan but from everything Ive gathered its similar to Iraq. The south is desert like while the north and east are mountainous and much more green.


This is the type of crap that people are dealing with:


http://photos14.flickr.com/15908314_643b14ede9_o.jpg

[vaglocker]

The author only briefly mentioned the heavier projectile 5.56 ammo (e.g. 77gr) and basically said it improved long range accuracy but not lethality. He states throughout the essay that an M4 is a 200 meter weapon as far as optimal lethality goes, but I would think that the heavy match ammo like the Black Hills 77 gr would stretch that out a bit. Am I wrong?

[WillBrink]

Increasing small arms lethality in Afghanistan

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA512331&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

A worthy read, thanx. :cool:

Hope all is well...

[BrianS]

This was an interesting read and confirmed a bunch of things I have already been told.

One thing I don't understand however is if we increase the ability of our infantry to fight at 500m won't the enemy just initiate contact with PKMs medium machineguns, 12.7/14.5mm heavy machineguns and Mortars at even longer ranges and end up in the same situation?

BTW Just curious from guys who have experience carrying these kinds of loads in the field: What weight is the armor, ammo, etc. in your load. Earlier posts mentioned getting the load below 40 lbs. Armor plus ammo how many rounds would that amount to? What would you NOT be carrying to get the weight that low.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The author only briefly mentioned the heavier projectile 5.56 ammo (e.g. 77gr) and basically said it improved long range accuracy but not lethality. He states throughout the essay that an M4 is a 200 meter weapon as far as optimal lethality goes, but I would think that the heavy match ammo like the Black Hills 77 gr would stretch that out a bit. Am I wrong?

+1 on that. I've only scanned it so far, but it seems that the 77gr bullets are not given as much emphasis as they could have. Those heavy bullets are match bullets anyway, why would they have superior wounding capability?

I didn't see it mentioned, but I think it is pretty incredible that you can take a round and a gun that has been optimized for the European Theater (20inch barrel and M855) to wound enemy soldiers and cause logistics issues with the enemy, can also be optimized for jungle warfare, and then taken out to the desert and have 25% of its barrel cut off and a bullet twice as heavy, it still works.

Rack the M4 carbines and start handing out more M16a2/a4 wouldn't be a bad place to start?

Before I'd bring out a new round/rifle, I'd figure out what the Chinese were going to do in the way of body armour. Bringing out something new that will just have to be replaced later doesn't make much long term sense.

[ForTehNguyen]

Chinese have already come up with the 5.8mm round that they claim is superior to 5.56mm. They have 64gr and 77gr versions. Not designed to fragment tho.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.8x42mm_DBP87