View Full Version : AICS or KMWLRS Sentinel stock?
Thinking of building a Rem 700 based rifle on either an AICS or a Sentinel. Anyone with experience with both have a preference and why? AICS certainly seems to be the more prevalent choice. Cost appears equivalent between the two.
decodeddiesel
03-01-10, 11:39
It would seem that the AICS is more widely available than the KMW. Make sure you consider the weight, as an AICS 1.5 with an empty magazine is 5lbs 8ozs, which is a hell of a lot.
I personally went with a Manners MCS-T2A stock with their mini-chassis DBM. There's a lead time and it costs more than the AICS, but it weighs almost 2 pounds less than the AICS. You can get these stocks without the adjustable cheek pieces and then it will weigh almost 3 pounds less. :eek: It takes AICS 5 and 10 round magazines, and is an aluminum self bedding, drop in system made by Badger Ord. Also Tom Manners is a great guy who will take the time to answer any questions you have about any of his stocks over the phone.
http://mannersstocks.com/
ETA: Manners uses the Terry Cross hardware form the KMWLRS in his stocks.
Most folks either love or hate AICS stocks.
I strongly encourage you to get behind the AICS & KMW (if possible) and see which stock you prefer. It's a lot of money to shell out...
It would seem that the AICS is more widely available than the KMW. Make sure you consider the weight, as an AICS 1.5 with an empty magazine is 5lbs 8ozs, which is a hell of a lot.
I personally went with a Manners MCS-T2A stock with their mini-chassis DBM. There's a lead time and it costs more than the AICS, but it weighs almost 2 pounds less than the AICS. You can get these stocks without the adjustable cheek pieces and then it will weigh almost 3 pounds less. :eek: It takes AICS 5 and 10 round magazines, and is an aluminum self bedding, drop in system made by Badger Ord. Also Tom Manners is a great guy who will take the time to answer any questions you have about any of his stocks over the phone.
http://mannersstocks.com/
ETA: Manners uses the Terry Cross hardware form the KMWLRS in his stocks.
Thanks for the info. I shoot left-handed so finding a ready-made rifle is a little difficult short of a full custom. Based on your post I think I'm going with the Left-handed Remington 700 SPS Varmint with the MCS-T2A or MCS-GAT and mini-chassis DBM. I'm always looking to shave weight when possible. The base rifle should be more than sufficient for me (even though it's not free-floated or bedded) until I get the new stock in.
I'm actually getting pretty excited about this build. I've been focusing on AR-15 type rifles for about two years and my bolt guns haven't been getting much love except around Elk season. :p
Good plan!! I just did the same thing. Picked up a NIB LH SPS Varment for $500. Having the barrel cut back to 22" and recrowned and stuffing it in a McMillan
M40 A1-3. I got a Bushnell 2.6-16x42 from Scott @ Liberty Optics to top it off.
jaydoc1
Let me say this, I have an AICS and while I think it’s cool it fits me for shit and more than likely will find a new home if I can get by the looks cool part. I recently attended a school by Sean Little of Vapor Trail Tactical, which I highly recommend, and found out that there are some features in a stock that could improve my shooting and control of the rifle like a butt hook. Upon returning home I started hunting for other alternatives and just came across the Sentinel. It does look to be a great stock and I spoke to Terry Cross about them. He does a machined bedding block option as well. It is different than the Manners chassis. His is apparently a two piece unit so if there is an issue with the bottom metal it can be repaired or replaced. Great idea! Unfortunately for me being right handed he has none in stock currently but hopefully in about six weeks I will have one. Luckily for you being LH as it appears from his web site he has a few in stock and ready to ship to you. While it may appear to look a little different than the norm I believe it has all the features one could ask for by a guy who is a very accomplished shooter and competitor as well. That’s hard to pass up and something to consider.
http://kmwlrs.com/Stocks%20for%20sale.htm
Like decodeddiesel I also have the Manners on order as well. I handled this new stock at SHOT and loved the feel. I fell in love with the machined chassis and the fact that it really didn’t require bedding and any of my 700s could be thrown in it just like the AICS . I find it a much better fit and feel over my AICS.
Not sure you can go wrong with either but I do know if last Friday there would have been a Sentinel available it would be on my rifle. The fact that the left handers maybe in stock would make me want to try it. Give Terry Cross a call and discuss it with him. I know he has shot the AICS in the past and believe he would give you his honest thoughts all the offerings.
Let us know what you decide.
decodeddiesel
03-02-10, 08:36
The base rifle should be more than sufficient for me (even though it's not free-floated or bedded) until I get the new stock in.
Put it to you this way, I got my SPS Tactical in 308 in a couple weeks ago, then I got my NXS 3.5-15x50 put on in time for the weekend. I headed up to the mountains and found a nice clearing where I could go out to about 200 yards. After running a box of cheap Fiocchi for the break in, I ran some 175gr BH. The rifle printed a .492" 5 shot group at 100 yards from a bi-pod/rear bag while laying in a snow drift and dealing with mountain wind. :) I also put some old cans of tonic water out at 200 yards and my wife and I were nailing them with ease. I must say though I believe this is more of a function of the NF scope than it is of the rifle.
Now, does the Hogue pencil eraser stock suck? Yup. It would flex like hell under a loaded bi-pod, the grip sucked and was inconsistent, and even though I am using NF low rings getting a consistent cheek weld sucked as the comb is way too low. Still though the "budget" R700 barreled actions are nothing to sneeze at accuracy wise.
Well, this may be a little bass-ackwards but I now have on order a Nightforce 3.5-15X50 Zero Stop Illuminated NP-R1 reticle scope, 200 rounds of 168 gr SMK Federal Gold Medal ammo, and an EGW Rem 700 picatinny rail on the way but still haven't pulled the trigger (sorry for the pun) on the rifle yet.
I really want to buy once cry once on this deal and am thinking that the Rem 700P or Rem 700P LTR might be just what I need and will prevent me from having to really add anything further to this rifle (including a stock) for some time. I had a chance to handle an SPS Tactical in .223 (no .308 to fondle) today and the Hogue stock just really seems like a toy instead of a decent stock. My wife shouldered it as well and said the feel of it reminded her of a, well, let's call it a man substitute. After that I'm not sure I could ever shoot the dang thing.
There really are just too many excellent options out there and it's sort of got me stunned into immobility on the rifle decision. But I have the whole optic/ammo/rail angle covered.
decodeddiesel
03-02-10, 18:16
An LTR is certainly an excellent rifle, however I just am not a fan of the HS Precision stocks. Still though it's hard to go wrong with one.
Are you going to be running this in June in Pueblo?
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-02-10, 21:01
Well, this may be a little bass-ackwards but I now have on order a Nightforce 3.5-15X50 Zero Stop Illuminated NP-R1 reticle scope, 200 rounds of 168 gr SMK Federal Gold Medal ammo, and an EGW Rem 700 picatinny rail on the way but still haven't pulled the trigger (sorry for the pun) on the rifle yet.
I really want to buy once cry once on this deal....
Buy once, cry a lot? GAP Rifle
An LTR is certainly an excellent rifle, however I just am not a fan of the HS Precision stocks. Still though it's hard to go wrong with one.
Are you going to be running this in June in Pueblo?
I wish. Secondary to the loss of a couple partners from my group I had to give up my slot for the handgun class in June too. So instead of three Magpul classes this year "handgun/precision rifle/carbine", I'm now down to just the original September Carbine class at River's edge.
Buy once, cry a lot? GAP Rifle
Drooled over that website a LOOOOONG time.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-03-10, 01:00
Drooled over that website a LOOOOONG time.
Good news is you can put a couple hundred bucks away a month and pay for the rifle when it is finally done. :p
I'm torn between GAP and Surgeon--I have a feeling after I get a Centurion Recce upper for the AR Frankenlower in the back room a precision rifle will be next on my list...:eek:
I've owned GAP, KMW, R&D, and Surgeon built rifles. It's tough to go wrong with any of them.
The two that I'm currently shooting were built by Surgeon, I'm more than a happy customer.
Trigger pulled: Rem 700P LTR inbound. Probably won't get everything in time to shoot this weekend but early next week.
As an aside I also ordered some Sentry Solutions Smooth Kote and BP2000 powder. I've always been a fan of burnishing new barrels (on my hunting rifles, not my ARs) rather than "breaking them in". Basically the Smooth Kote is molybdenum suspended in alcohol and the BP2000 is moly powder. The idea being to fill in all the microscopic pores in the barrel with the moly before it's shot thus reducing the metal on metal wear generated by the passage of the slugs (moly coated bullets absolutely do not accomplish this and may actually void some firearm warranties if used).
Voodoo? Perhaps but no more so than the breaking-in recipes are I would guess.
I've always had good luck with my hunting rifles in this regard.
slickrick0999
03-03-10, 19:22
I currently have a KMW from Terry Cross. To say the rifle is very nice is much an understatement. I have also had the pleasure of shooting a GAP rifle as well. You cant really go wrong with those two. You might have a hard time getting a KMW now (a custom build anyway).
Terry was truly a great guy to deal with.
I have a Rem 700 LTR, changed out to a McRee Precision stock and ended up using an AICS. I like the AICS best overall for fit. I have no experience with the KMW Sentinel, but knowing Terry Cross' reputation, it is likely impressive.
As has been mentioned before, try before you buy is the best possible approach. Trouble is, that can be difficult to do with these items (and they are not inexpensive).
ReconRanger
03-07-10, 13:29
Get the Sentinel and never look back. Much more comfortable that the blocky aics.
Hoping to try out the feel of an AICS and several other stocks at the Pueblo prairie dog match at the end of this month before making a final decision on the stock.
Hoping to try out the feel of an AICS and several other stocks at the Pueblo prairie dog match at the end of this month before making a final decision on the stock.
I will bring my 300 Whisper in an AICS 2.0 to the match. At least I will try to remember.
I will bring my 300 Whisper in an AICS 2.0 to the match. At least I will try to remember.
That would be great. Thanks!
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