View Full Version : Problems Mating LMT & Noveske!!
I just bought a new LMT 16" Piston MRP and a new Noveske lower. After trying relentlessly..I was unable to get the two mated together. The problem is at the pivot pin. I then took the parts to a friend and tried using some of his parts. The Noveske lower mated with two different RRA uppers. It was tight on one but nonetheless...they mated. The LMT upper mated well with 2 LMT lowers and 1 of 4 RRA lowers. I did not get the chance to try the Noveske lower with the LMT uppers. I have included some pics of the two laid together. As you can see the side of the upper pivot pin "post" is visible through the lower pivot pin hole from either side. That obviously wont work. I am leaning towards the issue being with the lower...What do you fellars think? Ever seen an issue similiar to this with these brands? Thanks
Ridge_Runner_5
02-27-10, 19:59
Looks to me like a bit of excess material on the top of the lower receiver...
Its possible to open up the takedown hole on the front of the upper receiver.
It looks to me that the hole is drilled too high. It's close enough that other lowers might still fit. If the tolerance stack up of the lower falls in the right direction it works, if it falls the other way you end up with what is shown on your photos. I would consider sending it back for inspection/exchange. If it does turn out to be a machining issue I'm sure that the manufacturer will want to know about it.
My LMT MRP Piston upper came with two 'tabs' on the upper, somewhat near the front pivot pin. I had to sand them down to get the upper to fit onto a lower without massive force. From your first pic, it looks like your upper has the same tabs (above the upper-left portion of the Noveske cross).
This seems to be common on the LMT MRP Piston uppers:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39456
Byron I think you are right. Was speaking with Seth at Firearm Ready Solutions last night and he brought that to my attention. I'm afraid that the holes may be too far off to correct it by sanding those "spacers". Better contact the manufacturers before I do any mods.
Your call, but you'd be surprised as to how much of a difference the tabs make given their location. I'm an impatient guy, so I'd be breaking out the sandpaper, but your approach is definitely the safer way to go.
I have no experience with the LMT piston upper, but do have experience with a Noveske lower. You may be dealing with stacking tolerances--the LMT is at one side of the specs and the Noveske Lower is at the other end. I have a Spikes .22 upper that would not run with a Noveske lower, which was the only lower that it did not work with. To be fair, the Noveske was a sample of one, so unless you hear about a lot of other Noveske problems, it's not fair to draw conclusions from this one lower.
I have two Noveske E-Series lowers and have had minor fit issues with both. Both lowers had issues with the front take down pin. That being said, the Noveske lowers fit with my LMT upper better than with my Noveske upper. Am I understanding that your MRP upper would not mate with 3 out 4 of the RRA lowers?
my mistake...the lmt upper mated to 2 of 3 RRA lowers and the Noveske lower mated to a RRA lower very tightly but would not mate with an Addax upper
If you take the LMT receiver turn it upside down and rub your fingers on the surface that will mate to the lower receiver you will find a small ridge that must be filed down a bit in order for it to fit to anything but an LMT lower. It doesn't take much just go slow and methodical. 20 minutes later and "Voila!"
Ok...I called Lmt and they assured me there was nothing wrong or unsual with my upper. I called Noveske...spoke with Joel and he said that this is a very common problem and was eager to help. He stated that he gets at least one call a week regarding Noveske mating with LMT. He wanted me to send my setup to him so he could make a better fit. I assumed this meant he was going to use his dead blow hammer and see what he could come up with. I figured if someone is going to mod or ding up my gun it might as well be me! So I filed the 'pads/spacers' off of the Lmt upper and removed a little material from the pivot pin post on the Noveske lower. Got some tips from Seth at FRS and took my time. Gun is together nice and tight!!! I appreciate everyones input and knowledge. Thanks
This is very interesting, I have been in my basement all afternoon assembling a Daniel Defense A4 Upper. And I am having the EXACT same problem with it mating to a Noveske Lower. So if I understand correctly, I just need to file down the lip on the bottom of the upper near the pivot pin a little at a time until they mate correctly? Hound74, did yours fit correctly at the rear take down pin before modification? Mine did.
This is very interesting, I have been in my basement all afternoon assembling a Daniel Defense A4 Upper. And I am having the EXACT same problem with it mating to a Noveske Lower. So if I understand correctly, I just need to file down the lip on the bottom of the upper near the pivot pin a little at a time until they mate correctly? Hound74, did yours fit correctly at the rear take down pin before modification? Mine did.
Make NO assumptions, please.
Post several detailed, close up photos of the mating surface of your upper receiver and MAYBE we can determine the cause.
Incorrect!!! The LMT upper has two 'tabs' on the bottom of the upper. As far as I know they are LMT only!!! They are very small...probably .012 The Noveske lower had too much material on the top forward side of the pivot pin post. I very carefully filed that area and tried the fit and repeated. My takedown pin always lined up. Very weird deal. Nobody could believe that I could not get the front pin in but...I couldn't. Good Luck
Just out of curiosity, are the lowers you guys are having issues with E-Series? Serial number range?
Belmont31R
03-02-10, 23:19
I just got an E series, and its quite hard to get the front pin in....using a Noveske upper but not a factory complete rifle. Should wear together in time, and become easier.
It looks like the post for the pivot pin is to close to my rail. What do you guys think?
Mine is an E series in the 700s Jsaleen it is to hard to say for sure from the pics but it does look like there is not enough room
ColdDeadHands
03-03-10, 17:20
Just quit messing around and send the upper back to LMT.
Just quit messing around and send the upper back to LMT.
The OP already fit his LMT upper to his Noveske lower.
Another user chimed in who has trouble fitting a Daniel Defense upper to a Noveske lower. I don't think sending it to LMT would help :p
My lower is an E Series in the 1800's. After fooling with it a bit more this evening, I tried to swap the lower from my Stag arms rifle and it mated to the DD upper perfectly. And the Stag upper mated to the Noveske lower perfectly. I'm still debating on shaving the area around the pivot pin. I may call Noveske and see what they suggest from their experience tomorrow.
Update: After applying pressure on the pivot pin while moving the upper back and forth on the axis of the pivot, it finally slide half way through. Then after working it a bit more and a light tap, it is fully mated. I appreciate the support of everyone that contributed.
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