Another article on Starbucks and the Open Carry people

[TOrrock]

While I have serious problems with openly carrying a handgun as a civilian, I'm glad it's legal and an option. Good on Starbucks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_guns___coffee

[Artos]

While I have serious problems with openly carrying a handgun as a civilian, I'm glad it's legal and an option.

I wish it was an option here in tx...although I would be open on very limited circumstances like running into the feed store on the way to the ranch for a hunting outing. Otherwise, I like conceal...

I don't think those of us that carry should have to deal with that slight chance of flash / printing bs hassle.

[Terry]

Whats nice about open carry is that I could carry concealed, OWB, and not have to buy pants that look ridiculous when I'm not carrying, and not worry about occasionally "printing".
I would still carry IWB when I have to, but it would be a nice option.

[Heavy Metal]

I often open carry but I tend to do it places where I do not expect to encounter people but trees.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Whats nice about open carry is that I could carry concealed, OWB, and not have to buy pants that look ridiculous when I'm not carrying, and not worry about occasionally "printing".
I would still carry IWB when I have to, but it would be a nice option.

It would be nice if a fashion faux paus or static cling weren't police response initiators. I know concealed is concealed, but everyone walks around with their zipper down once in awhile. Stuff happens.

I wore a swearshirt to Home Depot one day that hadn't worn in years. It was just cut funny and kept riding up. Real PITA stacking lumber in the cart.

[R/Tdrvr]

Ralph Fascitelli of Washington Ceasefire, an advocacy group that seeks to reduce gun violence, said allowing guns in coffeehouses robs residents of "societal sanctuaries."

"People go to Starbucks for an escape, just so they can get peace," Fascitelli said. "But people walk in with open-carry guns and it destroys the tranquility."


Gee, I wonder how this guy would feel if he is in one of his "peaceful" gun free zones and Mr. Bad guy walks in and starts shooting? Or better yet, BG walks in, armed, and a citizen who is legally carrying, shoots the BG and save lives?

[GermanSynergy]

Ralph Fascitelli of Washington Ceasefire, an advocacy group that seeks to reduce gun violence, said allowing guns in coffeehouses robs residents of "societal sanctuaries."

"People go to Starbucks for an escape, just so they can get peace," Fascitelli said. "But people walk in with open-carry guns and it destroys the tranquility."


Gee, I wonder how this guy would feel if he is in one of his "peaceful" gun free zones and Mr. Bad guy walks in and starts shooting? Or better yet, BG walks in, armed, and a citizen who is legally carrying, shoots the BG and save lives?

I wonder what drugs this guy is on..... :rolleyes: Whenever I hear useless liberal phrases like "societal sanctuaries", I think of places like Potocari/Srebrenica, another "safe haven". I fail to see how sipping lattes with a bunch of Prius driving girly men places one in a sancutary lol...... :cool:

[uwe1]

I prefer to conceal carry as well, but I'm curious, what are the problems that you have with open carry?

While I have serious problems with openly carrying a handgun as a civilian, I'm glad it's legal and an option. Good on Starbucks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_guns___coffee

[GermanSynergy]

UWE1,
I'm not speaking for Templar, but the issues that I have with OC in public is that it:

- Draws immediate attention to you, so any bad guys doing a recon of an establishment know who is armed.

- It can frighten the sheeple.

Now, in the woods/wilderness/ hunting type setting I have no issues with it.

[LeoAtrox]

UWE1,
I'm not speaking for Templar, but the issues that I have with OC in public is that it:

- Draws immediate attention to you, so any bad guys doing a recon of an establishment know who is armed.

- It can frighten the sheeple.

Now, in the woods/wilderness/ hunting type setting I have no issues with it.

I agree on point 1. On point 2, I offer this: Tough doo-doo. The sheeple live in fear anyway. The fact is, the more they see firearms that aren't used in crimes, the more of them will realize that guns aren't the problem. Guns are just tools. They will see them sit in holsters not doing anything, and they'll eventually become accustomed to them.

[A-Bear680]

Rings true for me:

UWE1,
I'm not speaking for Templar, but the issues that I have with OC in public is that it:

- Draws immediate attention to you, so any bad guys doing a recon of an establishment know who is armed.

- It can frighten the sheeple.

Now, in the woods/wilderness/ hunting type setting I have no issues with it.

Here's more:
Increased vunerability to a gun grab. LEO's usually use expensive security holsters.
More info available to gun prohibition fanatics if they try to frame the carrier for brandishing /threatening. No need to guess what kind of gun , color , etc.

[ZDL]

*******

[Irish]

Draws immediate attention to you, so any bad guys doing a recon of an establishment know who is armed.
And sometimes that's a good thing ;) https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47607

[Volucris]

I've always viewed legal open carry as a smart safety measure to concealed carry. Keeps you from getting in trouble if your firearm becomes visible unintentionally or say you have a chest holster and you take off your jacket in public.

Plus open carry has its benefits and so does concealed carry. I prefer concealed carry but that's just me.

[GermanSynergy]

And sometimes that's a good thing ;) https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47607

I read that- but next time it could be more motivated perps and the outcome could be different.

[Terry]

I much prefer cc, but I'm skinny and I carry a G17 in a Raven, iwb.
Since this is what I have determined is best for me, I also have to modify my pant and shirt selection.
If I happen to end up going someplace, unplanned, that I can't carry, and leave my gear locked in my truck, I tend to look "ghetto", to the point my daughters are kinda embarrassed.
Doesn't happen very often, but I would only carry iwb in 1 or 2 places and owb the rest of the time if I didn't have to worry about printing.

[Buckaroo]

I've always viewed legal open carry as a smart safety measure to concealed carry. Keeps you from getting in trouble if your firearm becomes visible unintentionally or say you have a chest holster and you take off your jacket in public.

Plus open carry has its benefits and so does concealed carry. I prefer concealed carry but that's just me.

This is where I stand. I conceal and I do not want to have to worry about printing or having my cover garment get a bit too high. I also think that OC should be lawful in every state.

Buckaroo

[Kevin]

Here's another Starbucks. Some of the comments would be funny if they weren't so...stupid:

"Can I wave my .50 Colt Anaconda..."
"I'm moving as fasr as I can get Canada or another safe country to let me in."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/84928722.html

Gun-toting demonstrators gather in Sussex
By Erin Richards of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Feb. 21, 2010 |(336) Comments

Photo Gallery

Open carry gun law rally
Sussex — Clutching cups of coffee and chatting in loose groups, the people outside Starbucks on Sunday didn't look particularly unusual, save for the holstered guns strapped to nearly everyone's hip or thigh.

The display of Smith & Wessons, Glocks and Kel-Tec pistols among lattes and coffeecake was part of an organized rally to spread awareness about Wisconsin's open carry law as well as the recent treatment of a Sussex gun carrier by local law enforcement. Participants later drove to the Wisconsin State Patrol District Headquarters in Waukesha and demonstrated on the front lawn.

The turnout - about 40 people from various parts of Wisconsin and Illinois - may indicate growing support for the expansion of gun rights in the state, and in particular, legislation that could make it possible for people to carry concealed weapons.

State law allows adults to openly carry guns, but not in businesses that ask them not to, places that serve alcohol, and not in school zones or public buildings. Last spring, Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen re-affirmed in a brief the right of Wisconsin's residents to bear arms openly, saying that those who do so should not be subject to disorderly conduct tickets from local law enforcement.

"That was the floodgate," said New Berlin resident Nik Clark, who organized the rally Sunday and is the president of Wisconsin Carry Inc., a new statewide organization pushing for expanded gun rights. "It verified what people already knew, but some people were still afraid to carry their guns openly until that opinion came out."

Clark said Sunday's gathering was prompted by what members perceived as improper law enforcement action against Sussex resident Joseph Schneider.

Earlier this month, a Wisconsin State Patrol officer approached Schneider at China Wok in Sussex and asked him to take his gun out of the business. Schneider, who said he has openly carried his gun many times at the China Wok in Sussex without a problem, videotaped the encounter and then left the restaurant.

The video clip shows the officer first asking the restaurant owners if they allowed guns in the restaurant. After appearing confused, the employees said no, they did not allow guns.

Later that day, Schneider was questioned by Waukesha County Sherriff's Department deputies on suspicion that he might have been impersonating a police officer.

The State Patrol District Headquarters in Waukesha was closed Sunday and no representative could be reached for comment. As for the Waukesha County Sheriff's Department, Public Information Officer Steve Pederson said that the sheriff's deputies acted appropriately, and that their questioning had nothing to do with Schneider openly carrying a gun.

"We have gotten reports from other areas about people impersonating police officers," Pederson said, adding that some of the equipment seen in or on Schneider's car, such as a radar gun and police scanner and antennas, led them to follow up on the lead.

Pederson said that Schneider was cooperative, and that the officers did not find evidence to support that Schneider was impersonating law enforcement.

News of Schneider's story spread on the Internet and through online social networks, prompting gun rights advocates to believe Schneider was unfairly treated.

"We all believe we should be allowed to defend ourselves," said Krysta Sutterfield, a Milwaukee resident who recently bought a 9mm Kel-Tec pistol that she carries openly. "If people see a gun, they automatically think criminal. But criminals don't wear their guns in holsters."

Shaun Kranish, a rally participant from Rockford, Ill., said support for a concealed carry law is growing in Wisconsin. Twice, Gov. Jim Doyle has vetoed legislation that would make that possible.

"Almost every state has moved toward fewer restrictions on guns, except Wisconsin and Illinois," said Kranish, who started the Web site www.ICarry.org to build support for concealed carry laws in both states.

The difference between open carry and concealed carry, beyond the visibility aspect, is that just about any adult may openly carry a gun, while those who carry concealed weapons generally must purchase a permit and be trained in how to use the firearm.

Gun rights advocates generally support concealed carry because they think it makes it harder for criminals to know who is armed and who isn't, Kranish said. That fear and uncertainty, he added, can help reduce criminal activity.

Those opposed to expanding gun rights generally think the move can lead to more guns being displayed prematurely, more accidents and more violence.