View Full Version : Tactical Tomahawks
So who among us has a tomahawk as part of their gear? I think that it could be a very useful tool for a lot of situations, or is it. I can really see its use while hiking or as part of your bug out gear. The prices are all over the board, from SOGs $40 one to custom hawks in the $300 dollar range. I know that you get what you pay for but… Who has one, what brand, how have you used it, how do you carry it, and how did it live up to the hype?
If you have one post some pics.
Thanks!
I don't have a tactical tommyhawk but I do carry a Gerber Sport Ax in my BOB and I can guaran-damn-tee you it would ruin your day if you were to get a peck on the noggin with it. Cheap, light, and extremely sharp it makes very quick work of an wood tat gets in my way. I'm not sure it would hold up to breaking bricks, though...
http://base1.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=http://www.capitolsupply.com/ImageServer.ashx%3Ft%3Dproduct%26h%3D200%26w%3D200%26imageid%3DCS29849&size=20&dhm=4ef5b0b8&hl=en
Have you been watching "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson lately? :D
Tomahawks are cool. I recently bought the SOG. Not sure what I'm going to do with it?????????????
photosniper
03-02-10, 16:52
RMJ Tactical Shrike, by far the best hawk on the market, at least in my opinion. Don't have one yet, played with a bunch and my buddy Mercop is the official RMJ trainer so I have some experience with them.
RMJ Tactical Shrike, by far the best hawk on the market, at least in my opinion. Don't have one yet, played with a bunch and my buddy Mercop is the official RMJ trainer so I have some experience with them.
I looked at the RMJ hawks. I think they are by far the largest of the ones that I have looked at.
Have you been watching "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson lately? :D
Not lately, but that's a great idea! ;)
I have been working with RMJ for two years now. When they approached me about doing the CQB DVD we needed to get a training hawk done so we met with Blue Guns at SHOT 2008 and it was done.
Part of my duties is trying to break my Shrike by doing things with it that I shouldn't. You know, chopping cinder blocks up and prying the trunk lids off of cars from the hinge side.
Try that with the other hawks out there. We encourage it. I carry mine in my Bag of Evil exactly for the reasons in the article below. It is there right next to my FAK.
http://mail.myptsmail.com/mercop/blog/?p=416
tracker722
03-03-10, 16:38
******
http://k5tactical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=159&zenid=138c74f84998ad6e6287a7802d3db96a
The Cold Steel one reminds me of this hawk. Out of all the hawks that I have been looking at this is the one that interests me the most. The compact size is the main reason.
I would like to see a head to head test of any other hawk on the market against the RMJ Shrike. Most hawks are good at puncturing stuff. Few are designed for leverage for breaching with the spike tapered so it does not get stuck in targets.
I am on the board of directors for a charity called the www.peacekeepersupport.org. When we have a car like the one in the above picture we take donations and hand people the Shrike and let them go off for two minutes on the car. I tell them to do as much damage as they can to the car and the hawk. The car loses.- George
I just ordered RMJ Kestrel. Now the waiting begins.
Moose-Knuckle
03-11-10, 12:41
I don't have a tactical tommyhawk but I do carry a Gerber Sport Ax in my BOB and I can guaran-damn-tee you it would ruin your day if you were to get a peck on the noggin with it. Cheap, light, and extremely sharp it makes very quick work of an wood tat gets in my way. I'm not sure it would hold up to breaking bricks, though...
http://base1.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=http://www.capitolsupply.com/ImageServer.ashx%3Ft%3Dproduct%26h%3D200%26w%3D200%26imageid%3DCS29849&size=20&dhm=4ef5b0b8&hl=en
This, the Gerber (Fiskars) Axes are made in Finland, nobody makes an ax like the Finns. I keep the same "sport ax" in my BOB in the cab of my truck. Also have the Gerber (Fiskars) folding spade/e-tool. Good kit for sure...
I had to buy me a "tactical" tomahawk so I broke down a got the latest version of the SOG Fusion....it awaits the Zombie hordes.
basic Buck 757...its maybe 12" overall, so id call it a camp axe, not a "tactical tomahawk", but with a little work became sharp enough to shave with ease. i snagged it up at a hardware store dirt cheap since it was the display model, so i figured WTH. what i really want is the Benchmade tomahawk, but they seem to be slow hitting shelves and the price tag is a bit high
xrayoneone
03-14-10, 23:46
I have a Cold Steel Vietnam Hawk that was purchased the first year they were made. High quality and sharp and it comes with a heavy duty leather sheath. I replaced the hickory handle with an acytel handle some Army/Navy store had a bunch of. It was used to dispatch a deer that was smacked by a truck.
The prices are all over the board, from SOGs $40 one to custom hawks in the $300 dollar range.
I have the SOG Fusion $40 one. I would say for what it costs, it gets the job done as a bug out/utility axe. I don't think it s going to be as nice as the truly tactical ones, but as a cheap lightweight axe it works great. I've taken it hunting and friends have borrowed it a few times and it is still holding its edge. Mine came with a cover.
I carry the SOG Fusion at work. It will bust through drywall, and tin steel like butta! I'm a fireman, and I like to have something light weight to bust out windows, and such. It's been very useful so far, and offers a bit of comfort in case something goes bad. The ability to punch little holes everywhere I want is priceless, well 40$ anyway.
Dirk Williams
03-18-10, 11:55
Last June I asked a friend what to get my son in law for his deployment USAF 2Lt who supports the army. I wanted to get him a 1911 to carry in country. my friend said that my son in law was big A/F so he most likey had to carry issued stuff.
My friend then told me about the RMJ tomahawks his guys were carrying in both Astan and Iraq. I purchased one for my son in law and liked it so much I got one for my self.
I shopped for awhile and tried to find a better system. After I gathered the data it was clear to me that the RMJ was the right tool for my needs and hopefully my son in laws needs.
My friends crew had used them with devistating effect in both countrys. The RMJ's are not cheap but then you get what you pay for.
D Williams
Have an RMJ Shrike, and trainer, great handling, very well made. saw them at Blade in '08 and finally got one after they caught up with Military orders. great hawk from a great company!
One more thing to carry..... I'll pass.
Carried the American Tomahawk Lagana version for a couple years on my raid/duty belt (we wear plainclothes 99% of the time). While I still see some usefulness as a lightweight breaching tool, it was a PITA getting in/out of vehicles. It now rides in the trunk. I also have the Emerson CQC-T hawk which is made by AT as well. Nicer balance and quality, but it sits in my safe at home. If I get deployed again it would likely go with me, but that depends on the gig.
This is the one I have also. Like the poster above said, mine just sits around as well. Too nice, for emergencies only. :D
http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/cqc-t.htm
i've never had, nor desire, a "tactical" tommyhawk, but i have been carrying this hatchet, which i've been calling my "tommyhawk," for well over a decade. it's just a cheap-o coleman hatchet i picked up for camping when i was 16 or 17. it rusts horrible, so i just blast it with krylon after each sharpening, and it keeps ticking. chopped a LOT of firewood on hunting/backpacking trips, as well as a billion other tasks with it. i've got a modified axe sheath MALICEd to my ruck for it, so it's not exactly easily accessable, but i can get it out with the ruck on.
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/Gear/101_2978.jpg?t=1269378419
i'll probably upgrade when this one breaks, someday.. but 12 or 13 years later, it's still sound.
http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/cqc-t.htm
i have a couple purchases planned in the near future, and im definitely gonna have to add one of their tomahawks to the list.
Tomahawks are cool. I recently bought the SOG. Not sure what I'm going to do with it?????????????
+1
I'm asking Santa for a SOG. I can't see spending more than $40 on something that I'm not sure how I'll use (if at all), no matter how cool it is...
Here's an axe you might consider if your looking to be more compact with your gear.
http://uncrate.com/stuff/gerber-kick-axe/
Seems like it might just fit in a cargo pocket. Looks like it will get the job done. But, Its a little pricey at $90 bucks. I for one plan on getting a simple Estwing axe.
http://www.estwing.com/product.php?product_id=1600
mkmckinley
08-30-11, 05:21
I'm not trying to yuck your yum but personally I wouldn't even consider carrying one on my kit for any kind of defensive use. For one thing it's a couple extra pounds that I would rarely use and for another I wouldn't want to put up with the endless ribbing from my buddies. The idea of a "tactical tomahawk", to be used for any kind of fighting, is pretty mall ninja/tacticool geek in my eyes. I don't do a lot of breaching but the guys that do prefer actual purpose built breaching tools. A manual breach is no joke and it's not the time to be ****ing around with toys. Furthermore I don't see a huge advantage a hawk would have over better weapons that weight the same, like a pistol, and I don't see how it could be easily carried or deployed faster than a fixed blade knife. I also don't see it being as useful as a knife for every day tasks and emergency uses like cutting straps, clothing etc.
However I often carry a small hatchet in my ruck when I'm in the woods. It's just for camp chores. I'm using a Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet these days mainly because it's light and because I like it. It made my Swamp Rat chopper obsolete and I can use the back to hammer in tent stakes and stuff. The Fiskars hatchet also looks like a great buy and won't break the bank. Wetterlings is also supposed to make a great hatchet but I've not used one. I like my GB enough that I'm considering picking up one of those fancy custom hatchets you see on bladeforums.com
I've never seen a real life meateater that carried a tomahawk on his kit. The closest was one guy that used to carry something akin to the Lee Valley Box Tool (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32016&cat=1,43456,43407&ap=1) for conducting searches.
Bad Medicine
08-30-11, 06:48
I'm not trying to yuck your yum but personally I wouldn't even consider carrying one on my kit for any kind of defensive use. For one thing it's a couple extra pounds that I would rarely use and for another I wouldn't want to put up with the endless ribbing from my buddies. The idea of a "tactical tomahawk", to be used for any kind of fighting, is pretty mall ninja/tacticool geek in my eyes. I don't do a lot of breaching but the guys that do prefer actual purpose built breaching tools. A manual breach is no joke and it's not the time to be ****ing around with toys. Furthermore I don't see a huge advantage a hawk would have over better weapons that weight the same, like a pistol, and I don't see how it could be easily carried or deployed faster than a fixed blade knife. I also don't see it being as useful as a knife for every day tasks and emergency uses like cutting straps, clothing etc. However I often carry a small hatchet in my ruck when I'm in the woods. It's just for camp chores. I'm using a Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet these days mainly because it's light and because I like it. It made my Swamp Rat chopper obsolete and I can use the back to hammer in tent stakes and stuff. The Fiskars hatchet also looks like a great buy and won't break the bank. Wetterlings is also supposed to make a great hatchet but I've not used one. I like my GB enough that I'm considering picking up one of those fancy custom hatchets you see on bladeforums.com
I've never seen a real life meateater that carried a tomahawk on his kit. The closest was one guy that used to carry something akin to the Lee Valley Box Tool (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32016&cat=1,43456,43407&ap=1) for conducting searches.
I can pretty much agree with that, not to mention what kind of sick SOB gets off to hacking people up into little pieces? I can't imagine it being much of a fast draw, maybe it would be good if that is all you have left though. IDK? I did hear a rumor about MARSOC using them but never seen it as well.
I'm not trying to yuck your yum but personally I wouldn't even consider carrying one on my kit for any kind of defensive use. For one thing it's a couple extra pounds that I would rarely use and for another I wouldn't want to put up with the endless ribbing from my buddies. The idea of a "tactical tomahawk", to be used for any kind of fighting, is pretty mall ninja/tacticool geek in my eyes. I don't do a lot of breaching but the guys that do prefer actual purpose built breaching tools. A manual breach is no joke and it's not the time to be ****ing around with toys. Furthermore I don't see a huge advantage a hawk would have over better weapons that weight the same, like a pistol, and I don't see how it could be easily carried or deployed faster than a fixed blade knife. I also don't see it being as useful as a knife for every day tasks and emergency uses like cutting straps, clothing etc.
However I often carry a small hatchet in my ruck when I'm in the woods. It's just for camp chores. I'm using a Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet these days mainly because it's light and because I like it. It made my Swamp Rat chopper obsolete and I can use the back to hammer in tent stakes and stuff. The Fiskars hatchet also looks like a great buy and won't break the bank. Wetterlings is also supposed to make a great hatchet but I've not used one. I like my GB enough that I'm considering picking up one of those fancy custom hatchets you see on bladeforums.com
I've never seen a real life meateater that carried a tomahawk on his kit. The closest was one guy that used to carry something akin to the Lee Valley Box Tool (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32016&cat=1,43456,43407&ap=1) for conducting searches.
Well said. I would like to know the statistics on actual defensive uses of tomahawks in the last century. I'm sure it would be less than 1%. For breaching you would be better off spending your money on a crowbar. In fact for the price of these custom hawks you could supply a platoon.
I'm big on practical gear, and a hawk is about the least practical you can get. It doesn't chop as well as a hatchet, it doesn't pry as well as a crowbar, and it doesn't kill as well as an m4.
Most of these new hawk deigns sacrifice usefulness for toughness. For example steel poll hawks are incredibly fatiguing to the hand. So much so I would suggest they would compromise a shooters ability to effectively pull the trigger after use. Anyone who has used an eastwing axe knows this.
Rob Haught
08-30-11, 08:56
You also might check out the ones made by custom bladesmith Daniel Winkler. He is doing some interesting things for some of the tier one units in this regard. Ive been using one of his rescue tools for the past year and it has seen service as a first responder on auto accidents. He also makes some very good models in the combat hawk line. Very good guy to deal with as well.
Rob
We've busted a pair of the SOG fusions in the past month just playing around with them. I have no desire to use anything of this genre for defensive work. I'm sticking with the Gransfors Bruks Scandi Forest Axe. Far more versatile and I have every confidence in it.
I've read about the Gransfor Bruks with satisfied owners. I've also come across the Wolverine Survival Tool on Youtube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GaVpiK34uA
Interesting.
Bad Medicine
08-30-11, 13:44
You also might check out the ones made by custom bladesmith Daniel Winkler. He is doing some interesting things for some of the tier one units in this regard. Ive been using one of his rescue tools for the past year and it has seen service as a first responder on auto accidents. He also makes some very good models in the combat hawk line. Very good guy to deal with as well.
Rob
Wow this guy is expensive on all of his knives! I thought Chris Reeves was spendy, but this guy takes the cake!
Have you been watching "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson lately? :D
Ironhorse on the tv show war of the worlds gave me that bug.
Get a FREE tomahawk!
http://youtu.be/jfdY0NMDqYQ
Bad Medicine
08-30-11, 15:47
Get a FREE tomahawk!
http://youtu.be/jfdY0NMDqYQ
........
I'm not trying to yuck your yum but personally I wouldn't even consider carrying one on my kit for any kind of defensive use...
Furthermore I don't see a huge advantage a hawk would have over better weapons that weight the same, like a pistol...
However I often carry a small hatchet in my ruck when I'm in the woods. It's just for camp chores.
You're not yucking my yum... I think we're on the same page.
I have a $7.- hatchet from Horror Freight that works well for camp chores, but I was thinking of getting something sturdier and more handy... something to hatchets like what a 6D Maglite is to flashlights.
As for the tomahawk vs. pistol comparison, you're absolutely right... except that I'm often camping with a group with lots of grabby little kids and potentially hysterical females (including my own daughter and wife), and having something like a 6D Maglite or a hatchet/tomahawk around is WAAAY easier than packing a pistol.
Now I've read many reports of SOG tomahawks' handles breaking... can somebody recommend a decent tomahawk for less than $100?
I have a Condor (Moteng's catalog) that's 13.38" with a handle that I wrapped in Paracord. It's carried on the outside of my 3-day ruck and I last used it to carve open some hidden compartments on a maritime dope load I intercepted. It worked to my expectations...oh sorry...about $45 IIRC...
Best regards...
Littlelebowski
08-30-11, 19:01
One more thing to carry..... I'll pass.
An infantryman for sure :D
I have a Condor (Moteng's catalog) that's 13.38" with a handle that I wrapped in Paracord. It's carried on the outside of my 3-day ruck and I last used it to carve open some hidden compartments on a maritime dope load I intercepted. It worked to my expectations...oh sorry...about $45 IIRC...
Best regards...
You mean this one?
http://www.moteng.com/CTK4010BT-Throwing-Axe-13-38-in-UltraBlaC2-No
I don't want to throw it... What about this one?
http://www.knifecenter.com/item/CN4012TRT/condor-tool-
Hey Bimmer...
Yeah I got that first one you posted and added the p-cord myself. I like the other you found better though, as that handle is robust..nice!!
Gutshot John
08-31-11, 08:50
It's worth noting that back in the day a tomahawk was very rarely a purpose built fighting tool and was rather a do-all piece of kit. Chopping small wood, clearing brush, pounding stakes, destroying material, chopping through walls to make improvised exits, digging holes and only occasionally bashing heads.
In that vein, to justify the weight cost, it better do a lot of things quite well as a jack-of-all-trades type item. I've had a long time fascination with Native American warfare and own several historic hawks, both original and reproduction as well as modern tactical varieties from RMJ Forge. Both have their virtues but I'd think very hard about what you want in a tomahawk. They aren't cheap and they weight quite a bit.
In the modern military context this means it should be capable of smashing cinder block/brick, chopping open vehicle frames as well as wood, clearing, digging and finally, if necessary, splitting some wigs. To do all of this effectively it's probably not going to be an insignificant investment. I would caution people away from sub-$100 tomahawks if they intend any serious use.
What makes a good fighting hawk (light, quick) doesn't make a good functional hawk. Chopping/smashing with a very light-weight item is a recipe for fatigue so it should have some heft to it at the head. This means you're not going to be carrying it on a belt but rather a pack. Similarly the steel should be of sufficient quality that it's not going to be warped/damaged/twisted etc.
While modern all-steel/full-tang designs are common they are also quite heavy. I think there was some virtue in a heavy, rugged axe head, with a wood handle that could be easily replaced but was still light weight. That said the full-tang designs typical of RMJ Forge are very well made using very hard and durable steel.
They are excellent tools but they are not a one-trick pony. They also represent a significant financial investment as well as a significant weight cost if you're a dismount. Think about how you're going to use it before you buy and take the time to learn how to use it properly if you do. You're going to ditch it very quickly if its just dead weight that you rarely if ever have to use.
While modern all-steel/full-tang designs are common they are also quite heavy. I think there was some virtue in a heavy, rugged axe head, with a wood handle that could be easily replaced but was still light weight. That said the full-tang designs typical of RMJ Forge are very well made using very hard and durable steel.
Decent traditional forged tomahawks can be had for well under $100. Their weak point, compared to modern hawks like RMJ, is the handle. Fortunately, tomahawk handles literally grow on trees and can be manufactured using nothing more than a pocket knife or another hawk.
Anyone qualified in the many uses of a tomahawk must surely be able to cut replacement handles as the need arises.
... it better do a lot of things quite well as a jack-of-all-trades type item.
...this means it should be capable of smashing cinder block/brick, chopping open vehicle frames as well as wood, clearing, digging and finally, if necessary, splitting some wigs.
You're going to ditch it very quickly if its just dead weight that you rarely if ever have to use.
This is my thinking, too. I'm really just looking for a nice upgrade from my $7.- Harbor Freight hatchet...
As for smashing through block walls or tearing open cars, I have a couple jumbo crow bars that'll do that.
And I probably wouldn't "carry" this thing much of anywhere — just take it car camping.
Gutshot John
08-31-11, 14:33
As for smashing through block walls or tearing open cars, I have a couple jumbo crow bars that'll do that.
If carrying a tomahawk is weight-cost prohibitive for many people, I doubt carrying a crowbar is a realistic alternative.
Ever tried cutting through the A-post with a crowbar? Not the best tool for the job.
And I probably wouldn't "carry" this thing much of anywhere — just take it car camping.
Fair enough, you've determined your need and application and in that vein is a perfectly reasonable choice. If that's what you're going to do, I might also consider a pioneer kit (sledge, shovel, double-headed axe and/or a maul) in addition to your crowbar.
threeheadeddog
09-02-11, 20:04
I absolutely hate the current trend in "heavy hawks". A Tomahawk is a lightweight tool that is what it is because of the light head on a lighter handle. You can use one to make a self bow from start right up to finish(if staying in the realm of functional). It is a tool that excells at precision hacks for the craftier parts of outdoorsmanship(is that even a word?).
What the tactical community has embraced as a hawk should better be described as a hatchet. It is heavy and is a better workhorse but has none of the benifits of a hawk(ever tried to make a bow out of a hatched?). In the effort to make the hawk stronger we now make even the handle of the hawk out of metal which kills the natural snappy cuts that it makes because of the added weight. Basically the tacticool community calls a hatchet a hawk simply because hawks have a better history and it seem cooler.
BTW I only use the selfbow example because it is a good one. The same applies to most of the more intricate wodden tools that using a hawk(or in many cases a propper machete like a parang) excels at.
What about this one?
http://www.knifecenter.com/item/CN4012TRT/condor-tool-
http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/condor/images/CN4012TRT.jpg
Man that thing looks like all kinds of fail. The funky ridges/serrations on the spike will make it hang up in anything you stick (as if long spikes weren't bad enough about that), and what's that notch on the underside of the base of the chopping blade? A bottle opener? Looks more like something to get caught on stuff.
To me, a hammer poll is far more utilitarian than any kind of spike, and works just fine for smashing unarmored heads. Something like a Cold Steel trail hawk is more like what a true tomahawk should be:
http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/coldsteel/images/CS90TH.jpg
It's lightweight, utilitarian, and will handle pretty much anything you need. It's also $22. If you break the handle, make a new one. But you'll get far more use out of the hammer poll than you ever will out of a spike. Spikes evolved because people were wearing steel helmets. How many bad guys do you see wearing pig-faced bascinets these days?
I might also consider a pioneer kit (sledge, shovel, double-headed axe and/or a maul) in addition to your crowbar.
Good point. That is: different sized tomahawk- or axe-like tools excel at different tasks.
Felling trees? I'd take a big, heavy, long handled axe. Double bitted for extra heft and twice the edge life.
Splitting logs? Big old maul. Beats the heck out of a wedge and sledgehammer.
Fitting a log cabin? Long handled single bitted axe, medium weight. Need to be able to make big cuts, but with some finesse.
3 day backpacking trip? Hatchet or camp axe.
Busting heads and raising hell? TOMAHAWK! (Spaceships, fairies, etc.)
Gutshot John
09-03-11, 08:42
I'd really caution you away from cold steel. Quality ain't there. I've never been happy with any of their products.
That said I'd agree with the assessment about the other blade...fail.
Good reading . Thanks guys .
I really need a nice small hatchet for camping to go in my pack personally . Any suggestions on that ?
Gutshot John
09-03-11, 10:11
For just a small, general-purpose hatchet for clearing brush or splttling some firewood, gerber makes a nice one. An alternative would be something like the Woodsman's Pal.
There are any numbers of good options available at Lowes.
I'd really caution you away from cold steel. Quality ain't there. I've never been happy with any of their products.
I bought a Cold Steel Hawk once, what a P.O.S. !!!
I bought a Cold Steel Hawk once, what a P.O.S. !!!
What specifically was wrong with it? I've been pondering picking up a Trail Hawk as a light camping hatchet, and if they're junk, I'd rather find out now :) I really like the design and the size/weight, for what I need it's about perfect. But quality is important too.
xrayoneone
09-03-11, 19:31
I have had nothing but good luck with Cold Steel's products. I've had my Vietnam Hawk since 1993 and it is still going strong. I've abused many of their blades and have yet to break one.
I've looked at a number of the Trail Hawks and they seem to be well made, however, the cutting edge is EXTREMELY small. The ones I looked at, and I looked at a bunch during their sidewalk sale, were sharp but not too sharp. The handle is pretty thick and if broken could easly be replaced as it just slides in from the top like traditional hawks. If I got one I would probably shorten the handle so that it would be more in line with the old Marble's hatchets in size.
I've got several of their products from several years back. Some were good, some not so much. I've used their warhammer as a camping tool for years, both for pounding tent stakes and to loosen up hardpacked desert dirt to allow me to pound tent stakes without bending them in half. I have one of their 1917 replica cutlasses from circa 1999 or so, and it's a solid beast. Their newer swords seem like cheap Chinese-made crap by comparison. I used one of their old 1980s/90s-vintage kukris to hack through all kinds of bush, trees and shrubs and never had any complaints. I have one of their new cheaper kukri machetes and it's a pale comparison to the old one.
Now, we all know Lynn Thompson is a fruitcake and nobody should ever listen to his 'tactical' advice, but I still think Cold Steel's original product line is solid. They've grown silly over the years for sure, though.
xrayoneone
09-03-11, 20:01
You're right, their quality control has slipped over the years. Camillus made the original Carbon V steel and it seems like Cold Steel has struggled to find a suitable replacement since they closed shop. I've been to their sidewalk sale a few times and most of the traditional line I looked at seemed to be of a good quality but not as nice as the older stuff. Their "economically priced" bubba line of blades have never seemed very well made.
This is what every business is struggling with. Prices on everything have gone up considerably but people expect to pay the same price they would have a few years ago. So what do you do? Raise prices and hope for the best or maybe lower quality and hope nobody notices? I'm glad I don't have to deal with those choices.
Mauser KAR98K
09-04-11, 09:13
http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/condor/images/CN4012TRT.jpg
Man that thing looks like all kinds of fail. The funky ridges/serrations on the spike will make it hang up in anything you stick (as if long spikes weren't bad enough about that), and what's that notch on the underside of the base of the chopping blade? A bottle opener? Looks more like something to get caught on stuff.
To me, a hammer poll is far more utilitarian than any kind of spike, and works just fine for smashing unarmored heads. Something like a Cold Steel trail hawk is more like what a true tomahawk should be:
http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/coldsteel/images/CS90TH.jpg
It's lightweight, utilitarian, and will handle pretty much anything you need. It's also $22. If you break the handle, make a new one. But you'll get far more use out of the hammer poll than you ever will out of a spike. Spikes evolved because people were wearing steel helmets. How many bad guys do you see wearing pig-faced bascinets these days?
I have their Rifleman's Axe. It is not quality, but it can take down a small dead tree, and shave limbs into shelter spikes (and the hammer head really is nice to put them in the ground). Light weight, easy to replace the handle or whole axe without pain, and fits in the MOLLE loops well.
If I need to open a car, I'll wait for the FD. If I'm gonna dispatch deer or zombies; pistol.
What specifically was wrong with it? I've been pondering picking up a Trail Hawk as a light camping hatchet, and if they're junk, I'd rather find out now :) I really like the design and the size/weight, for what I need it's about perfect. But quality is important too.
They never even put the handle on tight, sure I pounded it into place, but why did they not do it themselves? It was dull too, why should a customer have to finish making the product after buying it? It was actually made by American Tomahawk, if I had wanted something made in Taiwan by someone else, I would not have bought it, I thought I was buying a Cold Steel product. Their name means nothing to me now, it does not guarantee quality at all anymore.
Rant over.
ETA: I just went to their website, now they say it is an American Tomahawk product, when I bought my Frontier Hawk 10+ years ago they did not say that.
.
Failure2Stop
09-04-11, 15:24
I have carried a hatchet for a long time in bad places, and if I cannot justify it's existence quickly, it gets dropped. Too many tools I had to carry, too many miles to have to carry it all.
When I can add the 2 lbs, it's worth it, but as a camp/survival tool. Talking about "fighting" hatchets makes me cringe.
Gutshot John
09-04-11, 19:18
I have carried a hatchet for a long time in bad places, and if I cannot justify it's existence quickly, it gets dropped. Too many tools I had to carry, too many miles to have to carry it all.
When I can add the 2 lbs, it's worth it, but as a camp/survival tool. Talking about "fighting" hatchets makes me cringe.
While I would carry one, if I was honest with myself I'd have to caution anyone considering a hawk to carefully consider the above words.
I bought my brother a Grayman ax for his last deployment.
It seemed like a good escape tool and a wicked weapon.
He kept it in his vechicle most of the time but did carry it on occasion.
The Grayman seemed to be a good solid ax.
BillyBones
09-07-11, 07:19
I see their primary usefulness as tools for building-enhancing a fighting position in a MOUT environment... Loophole in masonry etc.
Failure2Stop
09-07-11, 10:35
I see their primary usefulness as tools for building-enhancing a fighting position in a MOUT environment... Loophole in masonry etc.
So does about a half dozen tools we already have, from bayonettes to e-tools, and explosives are a lot faster.
Not to imply that they don't work, just that it isn't the only (or even best) option for cutting murder holes.
Bad Medicine
09-07-11, 10:41
I have been following this thread wanting to convince myself that there was some purpose to have a tomahawk. Unfortunately I have come to the conclusion that the majority of cases there is a weapon that is better suited for the task. I can dig better with a shovel, I can hack a door down with an ax, and a knife is smoother, faster, and the positions of use don't open you up for counter-attacks like trying to hack with a tomahawk. IMO
Something I made......
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/a996hawk/2011-07-26_15-18-35_811.jpg
That's light-years better than the crappy 'sheath' that comes with that hawk.
Glock17JHP
09-17-11, 20:04
I like tomahawks!!!
The first I bought (for throwing and zombies) was the Cold Steel Vietnam Tomahawk (a reproduction). I broke the handle (haft) the first day out. It only took a half dozen throws hitting haft-first to break it (and I wasn't throwing it hard).
Cold Steel traded me a new CS Frontier Hawk plus 3-4 spare hafts for the broken CS VT... and the hafts are a lot sturdier... I have not broken a single one yet (it helps that the design on the CS FH is a 'sliding head'... so the impact haft-first simply loosens the head, and you simply slide it back down to re-tighten it.
I eventually added an ATC VTAC to the mix, because it is virtually INDESTRUCTABLE (as in: 'run it over with a pick-up truck while it is propped on the curb' tough).
Later on I began to customize the CS FH (mostly just the finish), and then later on I bought a 2nd CS FH and ATK VTAC... just for spares...
The Sayoc Winkler (http://sayocwinklerhawk.com/) has been used in combat, as have other similar designs.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/tracker%20dan/braidedAxe.jpg
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/tracker%20dan/hawksheath.jpg
They're not useful for every Joe, but some of the special operations guys love them.
http://rmjtactical.com/
only address you need.
Glock17JHP
09-18-11, 20:31
Here are some of my tomahawks...
This was my Cold Steel Vietnam Tomahawk...
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/Glock17JHP/ColdSteelVietnamTomahawk.jpg
Cold Steel Vietnam Tomahawk after being thrown...
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/Glock17JHP/ThrownColdSteelVietnamTomahawk.jpg
My Cold Steel Frontier Hawk (after haft and head refinished)...
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/Glock17JHP/ColdSteelFrontierHawk3.jpg
Cold Steel Frontier Hawk after being thrown...
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/Glock17JHP/ThrownColdSteelFrontierHawk.jpg
My 'combat' tomahawk, the American Tomahawk Company VTAC (Vietnam Tactical Tomahawk)...
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/Glock17JHP/ATCVTAC.jpg
A miniature (1/4 scale) Frontier Hawk that I made...
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee93/Glock17JHP/MiniatureTomahawk7.jpg
2. Have your musket clean as a whistle, hatchet scoured, sixty rounds powder and ball, and be ready to march at a minute's warning.
A small ax is very useful in the wild and oh yeah axes are wicked weapons- How would you like to have a large, strong, battle crazed American chopping one at your head and neck?
2. Have your musket clean as a whistle, hatchet scoured, sixty rounds powder and ball, and be ready to march at a minute's warning.
A small ax is very useful in the wild and oh yeah axes are wicked weapons- How would you like to have a large, strong, battle crazed American chopping one at your head and neck?
Hatchets as weapons made sense when firearms fired one shot and then took considerable time to reload. Now, as much as I like axes, I can't help but think that technology and techniques have moved beyond them. A good 'hawk is still an excellent multipurpose tool that could find much use in the backcountry, but I can't see it as a weapon in anything other than extraordinary circumstances.
I'm not a grunt, a LEO or HSLD in anyway. With that said I think even if I was my uses for such a tool would be limited. Imo they seem to serve as a improvised tool when one doesn't have the correct tool on hand.
And with that said..... I love hawks and hatchest. Have had a bunch and still have a few. The Shrike is by far my favorite but my Swamprat Crash Axe is nothing to laugh at. Over 1/4 inch think S7 high impact tool steel. And the Busse crew knows a thing or two about heat treating, especially S7.
A nice smaller/shorter/cheaper alternative is the RD-Hawk from Ranger Knives. I got mine from Justin before he made the move to Ontario knife Co. Its 1/4 5160 high carbon and is perfect for my trunk. Justin Gingrich also designed the Crash Axe for Busse/Swamprat. Great design, a little shorter than the Shrike but not as nimble.
Glock17JHP
09-26-11, 20:50
Firstly, I think we all know that given the choices out there that hawks are not usually going to be the best choice as far as a weapon, even for their weight. The same could be said for knives, too. If you wanted to kill a sentry quietly and efficiently, however, an ATC VTAC could arguably be the best choice, assuming you could get up close enough to 'touch' them.
The nice thing about weapons, though... you can have all kinds. Why limit yourself?
We all know firearms are going to be better choices if quietness is not a concern. A shotgun, a rifle or a pistol... or better yet, all three!!!
I have various weapons all over my house, but the ones not in the master bedroom are either low profile, hidden or not super easy to get to. I have: javelins, walking sticks, canes, polypropeline sticks, polypropeline ball bats, "Walking Tall" sticks (genuine ones, actually), fixed blade military knives, a U.S. Army sabre, tomahawks and of course... firearms.
Some may say a hawk is useless as a self defense weapon... I would counter that if I am caught off guard bad enough... the ATC VTAC is within reach while in bed. Don't limit yourselves!!!
Nuff said...
I personally don't use a axe/tomahawk. I see there appeal, but I opted for a kukri machete. I got the cold steel 17" version. Light enough to carry, more then capable of cutting down anything you need on hiking/camping/survival situations, and if I had to fight someone, well I have a 17" blade. I payed $25 for mine and have been using it for the last year. I have tested it thoroughly and I must say it exeeds every expectation I had for it.
A khuk can't be beat in the woods imo. I have fine Gransors Bruks hatchets and axes from sweden but usually op for my cheap C.S. Khuk or a large 10" fixed blade.
For home defence a 'hawk is certainly formidable. Obv a gun is a better choice. Before we got my old man a shotgun I let him hold my ATC VTAC to keep by his bed. Actually picked up a second one just for him.
I'm a firm believer in edged tool though. I don't leave my house without one, even to let the dog out back so I damned sure wouldn't go into a combat zone without a quality blade and while I said I'm not sure what I'd use it for the Shrike would be close by too. Most likely not on my person by in a vehicle. Maybe a pack.
I've also heard interesting comments about Iraqi and Afghanistan cultures being blade cultures and such tools garnering certain levels of respect. Not that an issued battle rifle doesnt do that too. From what I've read of Faluja I'd feel good with a Shrike implementing the rest of my gear.
Bad Medicine
09-27-11, 06:18
I personally don't use a axe/tomahawk. I see there appeal, but I opted for a kukri machete. I got the cold steel 17" version. Light enough to carry, more then capable of cutting down anything you need on hiking/camping/survival situations, and if I had to fight someone, well I have a 17" blade. I payed $25 for mine and have been using it for the last year. I have tested it thoroughly and I must say it exeeds every expectation I had for it.
I have the same one as you and I love it as well, my friend also picked me up another kukri while he was in Abu Dhabi!
misanthropist
09-27-11, 09:51
If you wanted to kill a sentry quietly and efficiently, however, an ATC VTAC could arguably be the best choice, assuming you could get up close enough to 'touch' them.
Well, the only time I think I'm ever going to be trying to quietly and efficiently kill a sentry, I'll probably just push the circle button until it cycles past my scar-H, MP5, and rocket launcher to my suppressed pistol.
But I do like axes, generally speaking. Mine are all working axes, though. I have a camping axe that is a typical forged Swedish job with a 19" handle which is roughly tomahawk sized, but much heavier, of course...as a result, though, it chops much better. I do own a single Cold Steel trail hawk, but I have never really found a use for it. Everything I am likely to do with it can be done more easily with other tools.
Despite this, my use of axes for work and, in the past, for heating the house (it's Canada and I have spent only 8 of my 34 years in a place with central heat) has always made me sort of want a tomahawk.
But I just can't see myself getting any use out of one.
Bad Medicine
09-27-11, 11:07
Well, the only time I think I'm ever going to be trying to quietly and efficiently kill a sentry, I'll probably just push the circle button until it cycles past my scar-H, MP5, and rocket launcher to my suppressed pistol.
But I do like axes, generally speaking. Mine are all working axes, though. I have a camping axe that is a typical forged Swedish job with a 19" handle which is roughly tomahawk sized, but much heavier, of course...as a result, though, it chops much better. I do own a single Cold Steel trail hawk, but I have never really found a use for it. Everything I am likely to do with it can be done more easily with other tools.
Despite this, my use of axes for work and, in the past, for heating the house (it's Canada and I have spent only 8 of my 34 years in a place with central heat) has always made me sort of want a tomahawk.
But I just can't see myself getting any use out of one.
IDK you could always use the spinning tomahawk jump to kill a whitetail! yeaaah!
Glock17JHP
11-17-11, 13:30
Last time I checked only one hawk has a NATO part number... the ATC-VTAC (4210-01-518-7244)
Check it out!!!
Last time I checked only one hawk has a NATO part number... the ATC-VTAC... check it out!!!
So, the Euro's in the blue helmets know how to get down with a hawk the best?
Glock17JHP
11-18-11, 20:28
Ha ha ha ha ha... REALLY?!!!
Read here...
http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/vtac.htm
And here...
http://www.1sks.com/store/american-tomahawk-company-lagana-vietnam-tactical-tomahawk.html#
I don't think other hawks have those sort of credentials...
The Sayoc/Winkler does:
http://www.personalarmament.com/2011/05/tactical-tomahawks-sayoc-winkler-rnd-hawk.html
Glock17JHP
11-19-11, 13:09
I didn't see a NATO part number listed anywhere for the Sayoc/Winkler hawk, like the ATC VTAC. The ATC VTAC has a 40+ year history, I doubt the SW does. The ATC VTAC probably 'throws' (if you actually were in a scenario where you felt a need to) a lot better than the SW, given the ergonomics the ATC VTAC appears to have as compared to the SW. And, after looking at the specs for the SW hawk, especially the haft... I doubt it could take being run over by a truck like the ATC VTAC can.
There is a video of this torture test on ATC's website:
http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/vtac.htm
I didn't see a NATO part number listed anywhere for the Sayoc/Winkler hawk, like the ATC VTAC. The ATC VTAC has a 40+ year history, I doubt the SW does. The ATC VTAC probably 'throws' (if you actually were in a scenario where you felt a need to) a lot better than the SW, given the ergonomics the ATC VTAC appears to have as compared to the SW. And, after looking at the specs for the SW hawk, especially the haft... I doubt it could take being run over by a truck like the ATC VTAC can.
There is a video of this torture test on ATC's website:
http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/vtac.htmwhat does having a NATO part number have to do with anything? I bet my arcteryx jacket doesn't have a NATO part number, but a surplus Vietnam era cotton jacket does. Does that mean it's a better product?
Glock17JHP
11-19-11, 19:04
The NATO number usually means a product was evaluated. The Govt wouldn't just throw numbers indescriminately on any products for no reason, I would guess. The number by itself may not be a really big deal, but it is PART of the 'credentials' the ATC VTAC has gotten over the years.
Do some research...
Google: Peter LaGana and Andy Prisco.
Google: American Tomahawk Company (ATC), Vietnam Tomahawk and Vietnam Tactical Tomahawk (VTAC).
There's a lot of history to the ATC VTAC. The SW doesn't compare, not really.
The NATO number usually means a product was evaluated. The Govt wouldn't just throw numbers indescriminately on any products for no reason, I would guess. The number by itself may not be a really big deal, but it is PART of the 'credentials' the ATC VTAC has gotten over the years.
Do some research...
Google: Peter LaGana and Andy Prisco.
Google: American Tomahawk Company (ATC), Vietnam Tomahawk and Vietnam Tactical Tomahawk (VTAC).
There's a lot of history to the ATC VTAC. The SW doesn't compare, not really.
You seem to be really impressed with the ATC.
The bottom line is that the Sayoc Winkler was created because of a need for a more functional weapon than the ATC. The ATC falls short in many respects as a weapon, but I guess you're not interested in hearing any of that.
The SW exists because of that (as do other designs), and they sell at 4-8x the price because they have something to offer.
If the ATC does it for you, rock on. It doesn't for many others.
But dude, it's got an NSN.
-ARMS Inc.: Lots of NSN items
-Blackhawk: Lots of NSN items
-Ontario Knives: Lots of NSN items
-Beta C-Mag: NSN item
-HK "High Reliability" magazine: NSN item
-GI toilet paper (fine grit asshole sandpaper, 1ea): NSN item
Not that any of these are the best of their breed...
Comparing anything Dan Winkler makes to a cheap (albeit functional and a good value) VTAC hawk is like comparing an HK to a Hi-Point. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, AS USUAL.
If the real history of the Winkler hawks/knives in use by certain people was known, I bet we'd not be having this conversation anyway.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-20-11, 15:46
Grown men arguing about who's favorite "tactical tomahawk" company is cooler. Wow.
I'll say this. Ive seen actual, real life "operators" ( I hate that term) with SW hawks. Thats all I wanna say about that. Its so rare, but Ive seen it. Ive also seen some gear queer POGs with hawks too, and that cracks me up.
For whatever it’s worth I tried a few different hawks all in the sub $125 price range. As much as I would have liked for one of them to have worked for me they were just too ungainly or just did not hold up.
I ended up sticking with machetes in the 14”-18” range. They carry better in the woods and for what I use them for, they just flat out work better.
misanthropist
11-20-11, 18:54
I'll say this. Ive seen actual, real life "operators" ( I hate that term) with SW hawks. Thats all I wanna say about that. Its so rare, but Ive seen it. Ive also seen some gear queer POGs with hawks too, and that cracks me up.
Did you point out that their tomahawks did not have NSNs? I bet they would have been pretty embarrassed.
Anyway I have to ask, what are they using them for? Are these being employed as expedient construction tools, or weapons, or rescue tools, or what?
As an axe guy, I can appreciate chopping tools but tomahawks so far have not been very efficient tools for my civilian purposes.
My wife just bought me a t-hawk. Albeit a cheap one from Wal-Mart. I think it cost 20 bucks. Made by SOG. I will wait to see what I can use it for besides putting it into a zombies skull. Is there really a use for a tool as this? The only one I can think of is for killing. That is what the original use was for them. Are they a tactical weapon? Maybe. I have never had the need for one nor the want. But I have one now. I am sure I can put it to use somehow. Maybe making kindling on our camping trips.
http://sogknives.com/store/F06T-N_fasthawk.html
Glock17JHP
11-20-11, 20:24
You must have missed the part in my last post where I said: "The number by itself may not be a really big deal, but it is PART of the 'credentials' the ATC VTAC has gotten over the years." Either those who posted after my last post missed that comment, or they feel a need to attack someone new to this forum because they feel threatened by a different opinion. Who knows...
Yes, you get what you pay for... good or bad, actually. If you want to pay $800 for a tool that may not be used much, or ever... that is fine with me... buy an SW. I would rather not buy a 'custom knife' grade tomahawk when a $110 tomahawk will serve the purpose just fine. The ATC VTAC has a military history dating to the 1960's. It is durable... which is more important to me than a curly maple hafted hawk is. I like the ATC VTAC, and if you don't... that is fine. No need to gang-up on the newbie and try to show how smart you are, or by focusing on one thing (a number) and dismissing everything else that was said.
Do you guys even know who Peter LaGana was? Or Andy Prisco?
Yes, I am aware there are other tomahawks used by different military units... but I like this one. You don't have to like the same one as I do, and vice versa... but isn't it OK if I like this one and you don't?
Sheesh!!!
You must have missed the part in my last post where I said: "The number by itself may not be a really big deal, but it is PART of the 'credentials' the ATC VTAC has gotten over the years." Either those who posted after my last post missed that comment, or they feel a need to attack someone new to this forum because they feel threatened by a different opinion. Who knows...
Yes, you get what you pay for... good or bad, actually. If you want to pay $800 for a tool that may not be used much, or ever... that is fine with me... buy an SW. I would rather not buy a 'custom knife' grade tomahawk when a $110 tomahawk will serve the purpose just fine. The ATC VTAC has a military history dating to the 1960's. It is durable... which is more important to me than a curly maple hafted hawk is. I like the ATC VTAC, and if you don't... that is fine. No need to gang-up on the newbie and try to show how smart you are, or by focusing on one thing (a number) and dismissing everything else that was said.
Do you guys even know who Peter LaGana was? Or Andy Prisco?
Yes, I am aware there are other tomahawks used by different military units... but I like this one. You don't have to like the same one as I do, and vice versa... but isn't it OK if I like this one and you don't?
Sheesh!!!
The ATC offers zero edge orientation. The round handle gives you no awareness of where your blade is pointing without looking at the blade. For a blade to be accessed by either hand, when passing it to a buddy who needs it in combat, or when using it at night... this becomes a serious concern.
The ATC has no increased friction for the end user via notches for the fingers to lock into. This can be a problem when attacking with it, and when you're trying to remove it from a target.
The ATC doesn't have a pointed leading edge to gain entry through tough materials such as nylon, denim, or leather clothing/ gear worn by an enemy combatant. The spike leads the way in the strike to created a slicing action, where as a hit with a non spiked design can cause major blunt trauma, but sometimes not even pierce through kit/ clothing. You can break bones with it without drawing blood.
The ATC does not have a 1 piece construction, so the possibility of the head separating from the handle always exists.
The ATC has a fatter grind on the primary edge, so it will not sink as deep into flesh with the same amount of force as a thinner ground hawk made to be more of a weapon. It also tends to get stuck more easily.
The ATC sheath sucks in terms of immediate weapons deployment. The SW has a much faster sheath that actually works for immediate CQ deployment.
And the ATC doesn't have a pointed tip on the beard so that it can be hooked into a target, creating trauma even if the primary cutting edge passes by the intended target.
Before the Sayoc/ Winkler was created, something I actually know something about, the ATC had been used... and guys thought it sucked. The Sayoc/ Winkler was the result after some trail and error with a previously offered spiked hawk, one which was far too big and heavy... that one was also created by some guys from Sayoc. It was ~1/4" thick S30V (no tapered handle), and the head to spike was almost a foot long. You had to be a big dude to swing that thing well, and it didn't carry all that well.
Two different hawks came about as a re-design from that original spiked hawk, through two different makers at essentially the same time. Tuhon Raphael K. partnered with Winkler and the two of them created the Sayoc/Winkler, and Tracker Dan created the Greymatter.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/tracker%20dan/hawk.jpg
Both are in use by "no-shit" guys. If you knew the extent of these "credentials" (as M4Guru hinted at), you'd have given up on hyping up a Vietnam era hawk a long time ago...
The ATC doesn't even come close to the potential these two hawks offer.
None of this has anything to do with you being "new". It's the fact that you want to make some big-freakin' deal about a two piece wooden handled hawk having a part number with the most useless military organization on the planet. WTF does that have to do with it's quality, and usefulness?
When guys on a military pay scale, going into harms way, are paying $500-800 for such a hawk, take it as a clue that it might offer something in the way of utility as a weapon.
If you like the ATC, have at it... but give it a rest with this "it has a PN" bullshit.
Glock17JHP
11-20-11, 23:09
At first glance your reply impressed me. It still impresses me somewhat, but not a lot. Here are some of your comments (in BOLD), and some replies from me...
"The ATC offers zero edge orientation. The round handle gives you no awareness of where your blade is pointing without looking at the blade."
And...
"The ATC has no increased friction for the end user via notches for the fingers to lock into."
The ATC VTAC has an oval-shaped haft, and there are finger grooves near the butt end.
"The ATC does not have a 1 piece construction, so the possibility of the head separating from the handle always exists."
While you are correct about it not being a single piece construction, the head is not at all likely to come off.
"The ATC sheath sucks in terms of immediate weapons deployment. The SW has a much faster sheath that actually works for immediate CQ deployment."
The ACT VTAC has three sheaths offered... not one. One is an older design, two are newer. The 2nd design has an open side to be faster than the 1st. The 3rd design is probably the best one and was designed by a woman. The latter two both deploy VERY fast.
The ATC VTAC is a modern version of the original Vietnam-era hawk... the following comment you made shows you didn't know that, apparently...
"None of this has anything to do with you being "new". It's the fact that you want to make some big-freakin' deal about a two piece wooden handled hawk having a part number with the most useless military organization on the planet. WTF does that have to do with it's quality, and usefulness?"
Wooden handled hawk??? Really??? You obviously are not talking about the ATC VTAC.
And I think YOU are the one who needs to heed the advice to: "...give it a rest with this "it has a PN" bullshit." If you will actually read my posts, I said: "The number by itself may not be a really big deal..." Or did you miss that part... again...
misanthropist
11-21-11, 00:19
Last time I checked only one hawk has a NATO part number... the ATC-VTAC (4210-01-518-7244)
Check it out!!!
http://www.benchmade.com/products/172
Not, of course, that it means much...but apparently things have changed since the last time you checked.
Glock17JHP
11-21-11, 00:35
You are right... I was not aware...
Glock17JHP
11-21-11, 00:56
Sorry if I upset too many folks... I will unsubscribe from this thread...
@ Jim D
In that photo you posted where the hawk is mounted to an LBT slick plate carrier, is that a training hawk? Usually, bright colored handle material denotes a trainer. Just curious.
Thanks,
TR1
@ Jim D
In that photo you posted where the hawk is mounted to an LBT slick plate carrier, is that a training hawk? Usually, bright colored handle material denotes a trainer. Just curious.
Thanks,
TR1
Yes, that's one of the trainers.
Here are some examples of the live ones:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/tracker%20dan/hawk.jpg
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/tracker%20dan/braidedAxe.jpg
Thanks for the confirmation, Jim D. There was a video online of Daniel hard-use testing several of his products including the breaching axes and it was very impressive. I've not seen any material online re: use/testing of the Sayoc-Winkler hawk, but I'm sure the performance is no less remarkable, although of course in a different way than the breaching tools and knives. Given the fact there was a specific trainer created, I imagine that the combat aspects of the Sayoc-Winkler hawk are emphasized?
TR1
Thanks for the confirmation, Jim D. There was a video online of Daniel hard-use testing several of his products including the breaching axes and it was very impressive. I've not seen any material online re: use/testing of the Sayoc-Winkler hawk, but I'm sure the performance is no less remarkable, although of course in a different way than the breaching tools and knives. Given the fact there was a specific trainer created, I imagine that the combat aspects of the Sayoc-Winkler hawk are emphasized?
TR1
The Greymatter is made to be a weapon, so it will be much lighter and thinner than something made to chop concrete.
It's been a long time since I've handled a SW, but that was built as a weapon, foremost, as well.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.