What boots? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

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Rated21R

03-03-10, 13:30

Garrasa

03-03-10, 14:08

Work boots: Ranger Joe ripple sole desert tan combat boot's
Everything else boots: Danner combat hiker boots

The Ranger Joe boots are really nice. Broke in quickly and are very flexible and have taken a beating over the time I've had em. They have amazing forwards traction, but when it comes to lateral or rear traction... well, your just SOL. Ruined a set of ACU's like that. But otherwise they have great ankle support and have been amazing for me even with the standard sole inserts. They're cut a bit longer than the issue boots. Defiantly a Hot weather boot.

The Danners are just plain amazing, short cut boot comfy and warm on the inside hard and rubbery on the outside. great for hiking and walking on slick surfaces. I've only worn em a few times (still have that new boot smell to em :D) but i highly recommend them. I'm a pretty big guy, and in these boots it's just amazing!!

m700m

03-03-10, 14:46

Matterhorn,Extreme, lace to toe, great boots, yet, pricier than most, sorry (no pics) they are on my "dogs" as we speak. busted my butt on the range a time or two, not since wearing these. they have a good selection all over the web.

sadmin

03-03-10, 14:58

I got the OTB DesertLite and love them. Very breathable. Got them from GreyGroup's site

Ak44

03-03-10, 16:16

Danner USMC Temperate boots (regular everyday boots) & Converse Stealth Boots with zipper (wore these in Iraq on my deployment).

VA121

03-03-10, 16:31

Danner's. That is all I have worn on duty for the past 6 or so years.

Pathfinder Ops

03-03-10, 19:50

Danner- Ft. Lewis
Uninsulated.

La. police gear for $259 +S&H

I have worn these boots (not the same pair) since the 80's and have yet to find a pair of boots that are comparable.

These are serious boots for serious stuff.

I'm on my 3rd pair in 20 years. And probably could have been on the second only but I got mine serious bad contaminated in N.O. during my deployment post Katrina and had to shit can them.

That's just one more thing about that deployment that just pisses me off.

Anyway, go Danner and be happy.

cougar_guy04

03-03-10, 20:03

nickdrak

03-03-10, 20:27

I recently picked up a pair of Lowa Zephyr GTX Mid hiking boots. They are super comfortable, light, and are extremely well constructed. They will be my summer time/dry weather training boot. I also wear them regularly at work (Plain clothes LE work).

While the Lowa's are Gore-Tex/water-proof, I prefer to wear my full leather Asolo TPS 520 GTX for rainy and winter weather conditions. I have had the same pair of Asolo 520's for 5 years (5 full Chicago winters!), and they are still going strong.

jtb0311

03-04-10, 01:06

Vasque Sundowner Classics or OTB Thor boots (both with green superfeet insoles) for daily use. The Vasques are pretty good in cold and wet too, but if it's extreme I'll wear Danner 8" Recon boots.

rushca01

03-04-10, 08:54

I was just going to post the same topic. Looking for a pair of boots myself. Just need them for classes and range work, I'm not humping 20 miles a day in them. Anybody have any good suggestions for something in the 75 dollar range?

sl4mdaddy

03-05-10, 07:20

Vasque Sundowner Classics or OTB Thor boots (both with green superfeet insoles) for daily use. The Vasques are pretty good in cold and wet too, but if it's extreme I'll wear Danner 8" Recon boots.

Agreed on the Vasque option. Had a pair issued as part of the equipment list for an overseas security detail, that was 13 years ago and they are still going strong.

VooDoo6Actual

03-05-10, 07:48

Here some suggestions to some already offered.

Bushmaster
https://www.otbboots.com/main.html

Thor TC
https://www.otbboots.com/main.html

Haix GSG9 are GTG !
http://www.haix.com/usa/policemilitary_produktdetail_us.php?artikel=203014

Vasque
http://www.vasque.com/mens-hiking-boots

ASOLO Bullet or Fugitive are good GTG
http://www.asolo.com/ita/prod_det.php?area=3&catid=16&itemid=129

LOWA
http://www.lowaboots.com/catalog/SelectType.cfm?Category=3&CFID=26911124&CFTOKEN=47639433

Meindl
http://www.meindl.de/english/

SCARPA (These BOOTS ROCK !)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/?brand=Scarpa&ref_=bl_sr_sporting-goods&node=3375301

Danner
http://www.danner.com/home.do?9gtype=search&9gkw=danner%20boots&9gad=5189810911.1&9gag=1332581911&gclid=CPz1q5HfoaACFQP7agodJic0aA

HTH...

madisonsfinest

03-05-10, 07:57

How does the Oakley Si Boots compare to the Bushmasters?

lethal dose

03-05-10, 08:00

Wolveriene king caribou 9" in digital storm.

carolvs

03-06-10, 00:24

Adding a nod for the OTB Thors. Best shoes I've owned thus far. Still breaking in a pair of Asolo FSN-85s so I can't really rate them yet. On first impression mostly good but I think I need to upgrade the insoles. Nice thing about all OTB boots is that OTB puts a lot of thought into adding quality insoles for their boots. I also have a pair of OTB Abyss boots that I haven't really had a chance to use yet -- comes with a whole complex system of insoles.

madisonsfinest

03-06-10, 02:43

Well after reading this thread I've decided to give the OTB Bushmasters a go. I'll have to wait for all of the snow to go away though :(

carolvs

03-06-10, 02:51

Well after reading this thread I've decided to give the OTB Bushmasters a go. I'll have to wait for all of the snow to go away though :(

The new OTB Bootistans are waterproof light mountaineering boots. Probably my next pair of boots, though I don't need waterproof very often in the desert where I am.

Kentucky Cop

03-06-10, 20:42

I have wore Danner Arcadias for the last several years. Just recently, my department approved a boot company by the name of Haix. I just realized that their HQ is right here in Lexington. I asked around and a a few of the street cops seem to like them. Not clear on what models. I may take a look at them also.

Back to Danner. I was involved in a incident where Jet Fuel/foam completely trashed the finish on my Danners. I was a little bummed. I shipped them back to Danner for $50 or $75 dollars and they sent them back to me damn near new looking. They even tossed in a shirt with the deal. Nonetheless, it meant so much to me to get the boots back. Kind of a sentimental value that I want to hold on to. Plus one for Danners!

Most of us wear the Arcadia's and Striker II GTX's. However, Danner just came out with the Danner APB'S and apparently they are all the rave around here. They are real close to the Arcadia's but a little "sporty". Hell, I don't know how to explain it......just look at them.

I guess I am lucky to have Galls and Haix in the same town.

Ky Cop

madisonsfinest

03-07-10, 02:18

I never liked the Arcadias. I gave mine away to a co-worker. They were way to heavy in my opinion.

kmrtnsn

03-07-10, 02:50

Keen Tarhgee Mids or Voyageur Mids.

Skidder

03-07-10, 15:55

I used to be a solid Oakley SI fan, had three pair of black ones (for wear with green zoom bag) and one in the desert (for deployed wear)...then I discovered the LOWA Elites. Absolutely AWESOME boots!

I have 5 pairs of these, and simply have never had a more comfortable or supportive boot on my feet. Check out Cass's review on MilitaryMorons. If you need a tan boot, you can not go wrong with the LOWA Elite Desert.

Rated21R

03-07-10, 18:06

just picked up some Keen Voyager Mids. I love them. My cousin who is working in A-stan and wearing them there recommended them and he was spot on.

madisonsfinest

03-07-10, 18:31

I'm too cheap for $310 boots...

I used to be a solid Oakley SI fan, had three pair of black ones (for wear with green zoom bag) and one in the desert (for deployed wear)...then I discovered the LOWA Elites. Absolutely AWESOME boots!

I have 5 pairs of these, and simply have never had a more comfortable or supportive boot on my feet. Check out Cass's review on MilitaryMorons. If you need a tan boot, you can not go wrong with the LOWA Elite Desert.

kmrtnsn

03-07-10, 19:40

Keen just added several models of heavier duty hiking boots to their product line at Keenfootwear.com.

GLOCKMASTER

03-07-10, 20:27

I have been wearing Asolo Fugitives for a while now and they are great boots.

CyberM4

03-08-10, 15:20

I've been using Black Hawk Warrior Wear Swat boots. Nice and light. Broke in when I put them on for the first time. Only problem Black Hawk no longer sells them. They sent me an email with the price of $50. So I bought them. I've had Danners in the past great boots. :cool:

Nippy

03-08-10, 20:32

http://s.onlineshoes.com/images/br009/12047_366_45.jpg

Merrell Sawtooth.

I wear these hiking, training and when I need to go out on the range for tests. I find them very comfortable and easy to run in. These were purchased about half a year ago when I was looking for new boots and I read positive reviews from hikers to people working in Afganastan/Iraq.

The sell for me was the price. I got them at a price of $99.95 online :)

OldGreg

03-08-10, 20:53

Keen Tarhgee Mids or Voyageur Mids.

Will admit to owning 2 Tarhgee Mids's and 1 Voyager Mid. :eek: I wear 'em all the time.

Outlander Systems

03-09-10, 09:47

I have been wearing Asolo Fugitives for a while now and they are great boots.

Negative. They're not great boots; they are amazing boots. Nothing short of the cat's pajamas, and maybe a little bit of bee's knees in there.

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4523/mud1.jpg

I'm debating whether this year's REI dividend is going for another pair of some water filtration.

SmokeJumper

03-09-10, 22:18

For me, I gotta say it's Danner all the way. I've worn the Acadia's and Olympics for duty use and then decided I needed something a bit lighter for range/training even call-outs and such. So I went to the Desert TFX I believe it is, with the Gore-Tex liner and occasionally I wear the hunting Pronghorns. These two boots are lighter, no Vibram soles so they can not be resoled, but they are like wearing a pair of running shoes with a lot of cushion. They also make some really good durable and easy to wear hiking boots too. Just my Danner experience.

Sluggo

03-09-10, 22:33

Meindl Burma Pro MFS. Waterproof/Goretex/Memory Foam Liner. Best all around hiking boot I've ever owned

http://www.bramwell-int.co.uk/contribute_images/Burma_Pro_MFS.jpg

If somehow need to go more rugged that those then the Hanwag Alaska GTX are the straight up truth.

http://lathropandsons.com/images/products/boots/hanwag_alaska_gtx/Hanwag_Alaska_GTX2.jpg

All that said being able to try a boot on is ALWAYS best!!!!

Madnik

03-12-10, 22:43

I sprung for a pair of Alico Tahoe boots recently, wanting something more traditional. They're full grain, dark brown/chocolate in color, have glove- leather at the ankle inside and out, a sympatex liner, vibram soles, and weigh approx 3.4 pounds.

madisonsfinest

03-13-10, 08:29

So I bought a pair of the OTB Bushmasters and I'm wondering if I should spray on any repellants or anything. Do you all treat your boots?

Armati

03-14-10, 14:29

For everyday wear, Merrell Moab (mid, low, goretex, ventilator - depending on conditions).

Asolo FBN for most of the winter and other alpine conditions.

Rocky S2V for combat boots. The Belleville 390 DES was my top combat boot until I found the S2V. Prior to this I wore the Danner Desert Arcadia but replaced these for lighter boots.

The well built Danner TFX GTX may be my favorite ruck march boot. The stock heel cup is awesome.

Smartwool socks almost exclusively.

You just can't put a price on happy feet.

Boss Hogg

03-15-10, 20:36

I have been wearing Asolo Fugitives for a while now and they are great boots.

Yep, those and Asolo FSN 95 you can't beat when Sierra Trading Post has them for $90ish.

VooDoo6Actual

03-15-10, 21:31

The Asolo Fugitives are excellent.

I'm currently R&Ding the Moran GTX which are imo are even better than the Fugitives.

Asolo has a new boot/hiker called the Moran GTX that is lighter than the Fugitive but stronger due to carbon fiber scree guard & support etc.

http://www.zappos.com/asolo-moran-gtx-dark-sand-nicotine

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/Moran.jpg

Worth looking into for long days on your Dawgs.

TommyG

03-17-10, 14:05

Thanks for the timely suggestions. I have been a dedicated Vasque Sundowner wearer for a while. I decided to try the Wasatch GTX this year on the suggestion of the local boot shop. (They are a Danner dealer and I was going to go with a Danner boot and he talked me into these.) I found this morning that the sole of the left boot split across the entire width right under the ball of my foot. Time for a better pair of boots.

CyberM4

03-17-10, 14:44

Wow nice guy. He talks you into a pair of boots that fall apart. What junk. Heck my first pair of Combat boots never did that. That was way back when.

TommyG

03-17-10, 16:19

Wow nice guy. He talks you into a pair of boots that fall apart. What junk. Heck my first pair of Combat boots never did that. That was way back when.

I was pretty surprised. I really expected a lot more out of them. They are really, really waterproof and very comfortable but I am not going to be stuck in the back country next winter with a sole split in half. It must be the designed exclusively for Vasque sole that is on them. I never had that issue with other Vibram soles.

Now that I searched a little today I am seeing reviews claiming the same problem. I am probably going to spring for the $60 to resole them and use them for work/knock around boots and get a better pair for my go to boots.

PrivateCitizen

04-05-10, 15:55

I recently picked up a pair of Scarpa Nangpa-la.

http://www.dragonfly-media.com/_img/misc/scarpa-nangpa-la.png

They are much like the Asolo's.

The Kayland Vertigo Light's are top as well.

All are built as hiking boots but work pretty good for most purposes …

Most work pretty good for all but a dead sprint – but when did any boot worth a darn excel there

kihnspiracy

04-06-10, 03:41

Danner Arcadia, FT. Lewis, USMC boots. Asolo Fugitives or Meindls. Those are the only boots I use.

madisonsfinest

04-07-10, 16:11

Uscav has the otb boots for 50 bucks right now, and two for $80! That's $100 off each pair! I bought one of each color. They are the 8" Ferdelance Boot

JackOSU

04-11-10, 22:42

Uscav has the otb boots for 50 bucks right now, and two for $80! That's $100 off each pair! I bought one of each color. They are the 8" Ferdelance Boot

Thanks for the info on this. I ordered two pair myself. I actually got $20 off per pair by the check out pricing and charge. So that is two pair for $60!!

Mark71

04-11-10, 22:59

Uscav has the otb boots for 50 bucks right now, and two for $80! That's $100 off each pair! I bought one of each color. They are the 8" Ferdelance Boot

Good deal! Thanks for the heads up.

Here is the link for anyone else interested......

http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productID=17566&TabID=548

BigPaulie

04-17-10, 08:09

Bates TR Kiowa's. Great boot and feel great after wearing all day at a range.

JackOSU

04-20-10, 12:51

My 2 pair of Ferdelance's came in mail today. Can't wait to try them out this week. $60 for two pairs of boots cannot be beat unless one were to get them free. Feedback to follow...

cmace22

04-20-10, 13:32

Keen Tarhgee Mids or Voyageur Mids.

Another one here with the Tarhgee's. Great boot. Looking at the Danner 453 GTX though. Anyone have em?

Madnik

05-01-10, 21:12

A week into my OTB Thor TC boots and they seem full of win so far. They make for a good low profile, breathable boot option; which is what I wanted them for.

Given the positive reviews of the rest of the line, I will likely place an order for at least another pair.

Spurholder

05-03-10, 08:34

Good deal! Thanks for the heads up.

Here is the link for anyone else interested......

http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productID=17566&TabID=548

Glad you guys got the deal - US CAV only has a couple of sizes left. This is NOT reflected on their website, BTW. When I talked to their CS department this morning, they had at least 15 pairs, including
8 1/2 and 10. No 9's - sorry about my luck.

Stickman

06-19-10, 12:04

The Scarpa Kailash seems to be getting issued to the "right" people, anyone off the board using them?

Enscribe

06-20-10, 11:38

For me, AKU boots take the cake. rugged and reliable. Had a pair for five years and nothing is wrong with them yet. But the most crucial part of any boot are Super Feet! I've had the greens for the last six months and will never go back.

AKU:
http://www.aku.it/en/index.php

Super Feet sold at REI:
http://www.rei.com/gear/feature/search/Google/superfeet?cm_mmc=ps_google_OW-_-Category%20-%20Footwear-_-Footwear_Footbeds_Insoles_Accessories_Brand_Superfeet-_-super%20feet%20insoles&mr:adGroup=345458165&mr:ad=5730936245&mr:keyword=super%20feet%20insoles&mr:placement=&mr:match=p&mr:referralID=NA&gclid=CNHV-t-Mr6ICFQz_iAod31IRUw

t1tan

06-20-10, 15:32

I love my OTB Abyss that I wear all the time for the past year, they're comfortable and holding up really well.

I also have some Haix Airpower X-1 I got for EMS use and they seem really nice but they're a bit big on me since I didn't get to try them on first, so I used them a few times and now they're in my trunk. I went with the factory seconds for half the price just to try them, I
couldn't see a stitch out of place or any problems.

Belmont31R

06-20-10, 15:49

Lowa Elites w/ Super feet insoles. I got them from the UK before they were commercial avail here. Greatest boots on Earth, and Ive tried more than a few.

I don't particularly like sneaker type boots. Hiking boots with comfortable soles work well for me.

A lot of people like danners, and Ive had a few pairs. They always feel really hot, and heavy to me. They last a long time but its like walking around with lead weights.

standsalone

06-20-10, 17:15

either my tried and true desert altamas or my asolos...
although I still have the pair of converse i wore when i was on QRF , the zipper was super useful so I didnt have to rack out in my boots all the time.

Dave L.

06-22-10, 10:35

I still believe the ASolo Fugitive GTX is the most comfortable boot I have ever worn. It's the only GoreTex boot my feet do not sweat in, in Iraq.
I also have a pair of OTB Thor boots, which I actually hated until I slapped a $60 pair of high arch insoles in them.

I look at the OTB Thor as an urban use, dry weather boot. The Fugitive, while comfortable everywhere, is more suited off the road.

PrivateCitizen

06-22-10, 10:57

The Scarpa Kailash seems to be getting issued to the "right" people, anyone off the board using them?

The Kailish … it is pretty much the same boot as the Nangpa-la (top of page 3) that I have.

The Kailish differs in that is uses a full leather upper and uses full on Goretex. I went with the Nangpa-la as it used a leather/nylon upper and XCR (which is more breathable than regular Goretex) as I live in the high desert … so I was more concerned with ventilation than waterproofing.

I've been using them since Feb of '10

The fit is fantastic, it laces well and the nylon makes it reasonably agile. I have packed 10 hours with 30+ pound loads off-trail and it did everything you can ask a boot to do. Blister free. I usually need to replace footbeds but thus far I have not. The last Scarpa uses seems to be very good on this model range.

Around town on concrete is does pretty well. It isn't quite a pair of lightweight Solomon light hikers on pavement, but it is certainly serviceable. Fast moving on a hard service is probably its largest point of weakness … but I have yet to find a pari of boot that feel good past a jog.

I would very much consider the Kailish if I lived somewhere that I needed a semi-rugged boot and expected a fair amount of precipitation. If you need the ventilation the Nangpa-la is great.

I'd also look at the Kayland Vertigo Light.

VooDoo6Actual

06-22-10, 12:12

dojpros

06-22-10, 12:19

I have had good luck with Merrell,Vasque and Raichle boots in ascending order of firmness etc. depending on the application.

YMMV Greatly,

David of vcdgrips.com

rudy99

06-22-10, 13:19

My foot is a 12.5 narrow, so I had a heck of a time finding a pair of boots. Looked at REI, Academy, Bass Pro, Cabelas, Cavenders and the local "tactical" shop and tried on just about everything I could get my hands on. Just about the only thing that worked fit-wise, was the New Balance 1500 (http://www.newbalance.com/performance/outdoor/products/MO1500/). The problem is, most companies don't make half sizes above a 12 and by the time the shoe gets that big, if you have a narrow foot, you are swimming in the boot.

rob_s

06-22-10, 15:14

Belmont31R

06-22-10, 15:19

t1tan

06-22-10, 16:32

I've been tempted to try quite a few of the various hard-to-pronounce and secret-squirrel brands, but the problem I have is finding someplace locally that stocks any of them to try on.

I typically wind up at Bass Pro trying on a few different things and taking whatever fits best and costs what I'd like to pay. I cannot stand buying something and sending it back and forth to get the fit right.

If I can't find it locally I go to zappos.com, free overnight shipping, and if it doesn't fit, free overnight return shipping. Not as easy as just walking into the store but it has gotten me shoes I'd otherwise would have never been able to get a hold of anywhere around me. Good prices too

http://www.zappos.com/shipping-and-returns

Belmont31R

06-22-10, 17:06

If I can't find it locally I go to zappos.com, free overnight shipping, and if it doesn't fit, free overnight return shipping. Not as easy as just walking into the store but it has gotten me shoes I'd otherwise would have never been able to get a hold of anywhere around me. Good prices too

http://www.zappos.com/shipping-and-returns

Zappos is GTG. Just got my kids 4 pairs of shoes from them, and they have a MUCH better selection than any stores around here.

CyberM4

06-22-10, 19:02

I bought the OTB that US Cavalry has on sale. $50 great price. They are light and comfortable. I'm wearing them all day. Work great at the range. After shooting 600 rounds. Feet felt good.

deuce9166

06-24-10, 09:43

I've been wearing Danners for about 13 years now (one pair is 9 years old) and have always liked them. Since I became an investigator I have been wearing Merrells for everyday use and Danners for SWAT. I went to my Danner dealer the other day for a new pair and he talked me in to a pair of Hanwag Mountain Light GTX. I was pretty skeptical as I feel I have really gotten my moneys worth from my Danners.

After about two months of wear I have to say I really like these boots. I orginally got them for SWAT but I have been wearing them everyday since I got them. I have to say that my feet don't ache after a long day of training. Maybe my old Danners were wore out but the Hanwags feel like they support my feet well.

Only time will tell if they are as sturdy a boot as Danner but so far so good.

Avenger29

06-24-10, 11:59

Just got in a pair of Bates M-9s that look like they are going to be a pretty decent match for me. I'm not heavy rucking or anything like that but I am standing on concrete for 8 hours a day (and that's brutal if your footwear aren't up to the task...a pair of boots that were comfortable to me had be going nuts by lunchtime and my new balance sneakers were proving not up to the task of protecting my feet from encounters with pallets, carts, crates, etc)

PrivateCitizen

06-24-10, 19:29

If I can't find it locally I go to zappos.com, free overnight shipping, and if it doesn't fit, free overnight return shipping. Not as easy as just walking into the store but it has gotten me shoes I'd otherwise would have never been able to get a hold of anywhere around me. Good prices too

http://www.zappos.com/shipping-and-returns

++

I actually prefer them to a store because I can wear them around the house for a few hours. With boots and athletics I don't feel a store affords me the time with them on to make an informed call.

Avenger29

06-24-10, 21:09

If I can't find it locally I go to zappos.com, free overnight shipping, and if it doesn't fit, free overnight return shipping. Not as easy as just walking into the store but it has gotten me shoes I'd otherwise would have never been able to get a hold of anywhere around me. Good prices too

http://www.zappos.com/shipping-and-returns

I'd actually say better than an online store purely for the selection. Most stores I have been in have a rather poor selection of shoes that fit what I am looking for. The only downside to online ordering in that case is the wait...

t1tan

06-24-10, 21:22

The only downside to online ordering in that case is the wait...

That's my only problem with online orders, but that's pretty much the only way ive shopped in a few years now so ive grown more patient.

standsalone

08-24-10, 22:22

ok so here is the question... I am gonna get new boots... what's the recommendation...

lowa zephyr gtx or the asolo moran gtx? what's your thoughts?

Turnkey11

08-24-10, 23:10

Mil got it right with bellevilles, I wear them for both my jobs.

superr.stu

08-26-10, 20:41

lowa zephyr gtx or the asolo moran gtx? what's your thoughts?

I've heard nothing but good about Lowa. But about 6 months ago my local dealer convinced me to put my Danners on the shelf and try an Asolo Fugitive. Beats any Danner I've ever had except maybe my Pronghorns, but even then i just hunt in the horns i don't think i could work in them all day every day like i do my Fugitive. They're the only boots I've ever had that I can work in them all day come home and if I go out I'll still reach for them. I landscape for a living, and am harder on boots than just about anyone i know. You won't go wrong with Asolo, and the Moran is a model or two superior to the Fugitive.

PrivateCitizen

08-26-10, 22:03

ok so here is the question... I am gonna get new boots... what's the recommendation...

lowa zephyr gtx or the asolo moran gtx? what's your thoughts?

Not to put too fine a point on it … but since we have the ability to buy 'beyond issue' you really owe it to yourself to try 3 or 4 brand on before you commit. That might mean mail order and possibly some extra shipping.

But it's your feet man … :p

The short list for the best lasts of readily available brands:

Asolo, Scarpa, Kayland, Lowa, Danner

And you can get the all at zappos with free ship both ways …

/shilling ;)

BattleDrill3

08-27-10, 02:58

I'm disappointed there aren't more replies to this one; quite simply, if you play with guns for a living (and do more with them than clear them in the clearing barrel at the DFAC), and don't live in a Bradley, boots are the most important piece of kit you can own.

Unfortunately, there is surprisingly little information out there in the ranks of the military in particular, with stubborn NCO's unwilling to admit a lack of knowledge or to try new things. Boot knowledge is gained solely from long (often alpine) expeditions, not just from growing up in the woods.

Six years as an airborne infantryman in Alaska, various military schools and selection courses, plus time in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Alps, the Dolomites, the Rockies, the Hindu Kush, and the Himalayas have taught me the following with regards to boots: 1)there is no single right answer, and you will spend a lot of money to find out what works for you. 2)You get what you pay for. 3)What works for someone else will not necessarily work for you. 4)If a company has been making sunglasses or athletic shoes, and suddenly starts making boots when a war starts...maybe not the best place to look. 5)Italians, Germans, and Norwegians know their shit. American isn't always best.

So crack open a beer, boys. This is gonna be a long one. This is for all the 11B's, 18 series, fellas on the teams, and anyone else who sees real trigger time who didn't want to ask questions for fear of looking uninformed. (That shouldn't be the environment in a cohesive unit, but another post for another time.) And I apologize if it seems like I'm insulting your intelligence at times. I just want to be sure everyone's on the same page.

First: socks, socks, socks. Socks rubbing against your feet cause blisters, not the boots themselves. Socks are to boots as mags are to weapons. (They are the most important part, as they are where everything starts.) Get good merino wool/bamboo socks. Army-issued green socks are surprisingly decent. You can never go wrong with Smartwool. If your feet tend to sweat like mine, and you realized that wool socks make your feet sweat more, get over it. Better than blisters. Powder your shit. DON'T SPRAY ANTIPERSPIRANT ON YOUR FEET, UNLESS YOU WANT TO SMELL LIKE A DOUCHE, AND HAVE ****ED UP FEET. If you prefer longer socks, look at lightweight Smartwool ski socks. Point 6 is another good company that was recently started by the same people who started Smartwool. Bridgedale is another good option, and very popular. Fox River socks are very decent as well. My vote is with Smartwool.

NOTE: CUT YOUR TOENAILS EVERY FIVE DAYS OR SO. Your will only have to make this mistake once on a deployment to Afghanistan to remember.

Insoles:
If you have normal arches, this is not a huge deal. But remember: you will not be twenty one forever. Take care of your knees now. Carrying the equivalent of a midget on your back for years will flatten out your arches in a surprisingly short time, and lead to knee and back problems. Get arch support NOW to prevent that. (Also, running with Vibram Five Fingers or something similar will strengthen your plantar fascia - the muscles in the middle of your feet - and help prevent this.) I suggest custom insoles from a licensed podiatrist (admittedly expensive), even if you don't have if you have low arches. (UNWEIGHTED impressions of your feet, versus standing on the mold for an impression, are key.)

Superfeet are popular, but my arches are too low for them. If you don't have that problem, go for their custom insoles from a KNOWLEDGEABLE dealer. Just because someone works at an outdoor store and wears a green apron doesn't mean they know anything. Superfeet make black, green, blue, orange, and pink insoles; ask someone who knows what they're doing what the differences are. And forget Dr. Scholls, if just for those idiotic "Are you gellin'?" commercials. Your knees will thank you after you turn twenty five. SOLE insoles are my favorite commercially available insoles. Great arch support, and semi-custom. Pop 'em in the oven (read the ****ing directions), cut 'em to size, throw 'em in the boots, and off you go. They make different thicknesses for different volume shoes. Bring your boots to the store to try the insoles. And bring more than one pair of insoles on a deployment; insoles aren't made of magic. Think a pair a month (at least), particularly if you're going to the 'Stan. Switch them out every day. Just spend the money if you walk around with weight on your back. The muscles in your feet (specifically the plantar fascia) are not strong enough to handle that much weight.

NOTE: Always keep the original insoles that came with your boots, even if you never plan to use them. That way, you can trace the exact outline of those insoles onto your new ones before you cut them. If you trace from other after-market insoles you previously cut yourself, there's a good chance you'll cut wrong and have an unusable insole; $40-$50 down the drain. Some shittier, Dr. Scholls-type insoles have lines on the bottom for each size of feet. Ignore that shit.

Finally, on to boots.
First thing - GET YOUR FEET MEASURED WITH A BRANNOCK DEVICE BY A PROFESSIONAL. The fat drill sergeants at 30th AG who measured your feet don't know dick about fitting boots.

Jungles:
The need for these has been pretty much relegated to members of SOCOM, but still worth noting. OTB makes the lightest jungles on the market, the Jungle Lite's; they're extremely comfortable. Forget any kind of boot with "Panama" soles, or anything else you can buy at Clothing and Sales, for that matter. Lowa Elite Jungle's are comfy, but their sole pattern will quickly fill with mud. Altberg makes the absolute best jungle boot in the world, bar none. Custom made. Like a hiker and a jungle boot combined. Amazing. Go with the Jungle Classic. NOTE: The first thing people tend to do is get the steel or hard plastic shank removed from jungle boots. DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU PLAN TO PUT ON SERIOUS MILES WITH SERIOUS WEIGHT ON YOUR BACK, PARTICULARLY IF YOU HAVE FLAT FEET. This will lead to plantar fasciitis or achilles tendonitis.

Light deserts:
If you're just meandering about the FOB, or doing quick DA's/door kicking, there is no way to go wrong with this one. Issued Belleville's are very decent. Oakley/Converse/etc are all comfortable, but not built for long stretches on the feet carrying a lot of LB's. Look at OTB Desert Lite's. Very light, good construction, but admittedly lack the gear-slut look that the kids go for these days. Garmont T8's are very good as well (my favorite "normal" looking boot). Meindl (not the last time I'll bring them up; quite popular with the ninjas) Safari or Safari Mid's are incredible. (At the Meindl website, look under the "Trekking" category.) Look at Lowa Zephyr's. Very comfortable, but not as solid as their Elite Desert's. The Elite Desert's are somewhat a cross between a light boot and a hiker, and tied with Meindl Safari's as my favorite. (FYI - if you see "GTX" in the name, it means they're Gore-tex, and therefore waterproof and slightly warmer.)

Hikers:
If you find yourself in Western Iraq, you might not need these too often. If you're in the hills up north, or anywhere near the Euphrates where stomping through tilled farmland is very similar to battling scree, that's a different story. (Scree=loose rock at the base and sides of mountains.) It goes without saying you need a couple pairs in Trashcanistan. Understand, however, many of these boots will feel very heavy compared to desert boots. That's unavoidable. You'll get used to it. Desert boots are actually way underbuilt for the kind of weight you'll routinely carry.

Issued Danners are decent. Danner Acadia's are also decent option, but lack significant ankle support, and like any hiking boot, are quite heavy. Asolo is a name you'll hear a lot, and for good reason. Fugitive's and Flame's are amazing. I wore a pear of Fugitives in the Anbar province, throughout Alaska (with thicker socks), and to Mt. Everest (not to the summit) with no problem. Asolo Moran's are quite amazing as well. If you can find a pair of Asolo Echo's, snatch them up. Scour the earth for them. (They have been discontinued by Asolo, for some reason.) They have the support of Fugitive's minus the Gore-tex; much better for warm days on the Pakistan border. FYI - they are the boots de rigueur for Tier One types. If you see muscle-bound men in an airport with Asolo Echo's and a Suunto watch on, they are probably bad mother****ers on their way to go kick random ass somewhere. Don't test that theory by stealing their luggage; it will not end well for you. I wouldn't suggest Merrell's (yes, I know Bear Grylls wears them) for the simply fact that most aren't made to handle serious weight. Keen Targhee II's are ridiculously comfortable, but again, not made for serious weight. Feel free to do quick HVT grabs with these guys on, however. La Sportiva are some of the best. I would suggest the Cascade GTX's for serious grip, but with just enough ankle flex to not make you feel like you're wearing ski boots. Meindl's are champions. Jersey, Kansas, or Colorado models (under the "Trekking" menu) or the MFS or MFS Vakuum line are great. Salomons...what can I say besides the fact that they rock? Quest 4d's (for winter), Explorer GTX, Mission GTX, and for hotter days (but not serious walking) XA Pro 3d Mid's. Probably my favorite brand of the bunch. Kayland Zephyr's or Vertigo's can be seen on many feet of OCF types. Scarpa Kailash's or Nangpa's or popular amongst the SOCOM set as well, and for good reason. Lastly, Zamberlan make some incredible boots as well. Their Tundra GT's are quite popular. In the end, I'd suggest the Asolo Echo's if you can find them, one of the Salomons (although not for super-serious walking with weight), or the Asolo Moran, or La Sportiva Cascade GTX.

For the more serious pursuits (that might involve crampons), Meindl Air Revolutions are money. Asolo Granite GV or Alpinist GV are incredible. La Sportiva Lhotse GTX, Makalu, Karakoram, or Glacier are some of the best boots in the world. These all require fitting at a store, and will be in the $300 to $600 range. I'd say go with the La Sportiva Makalu's or Lhotse. The color of the boots (all mentioned are in the 'tactical' palate) doesn't really matter. You'll be wearing gaiters anyway. And go with Outdoor Research Crocodiles for the gaiters, by the way; best ever made. If it gets really cold, just throw on overboots on top of the boots, under the crampons.

So that's it. A lot of options, I realize, but if you hear the same names over and over again, that probably means they're good. If you don't to be a creepy vet hanging out at the VA hospital barely able to walk at sixty, take the time to get fitted. Buy good insoles. Your knees and back will thank you.

I'd also suggest getting them, once you know your sizes, at REI, either at the store or online. You can return anything, at any time, for any reason. And you get back a percentage of what you spend. Get an REI credit card, and it's even more. Use Continental Airline Miles? Log in to Continental.com, and they'll shoot you over to REI's site. Then you'll get miles for the money you spend, plus the percentage back! Can't beat that shit. And in case you're curious-I'm not getting paid by REI.

PM me if you have more questions.

Holla. Stay safe.

kihnspiracy

08-27-10, 04:22

Danner, Asolo, Meindl. Those are the only boots I wear.

Boss Hogg

08-27-10, 07:42

Sign up for Sierratradingpost.com deal flyers, and snag a pair of Asolo when they go on sale. I got a pair of FSN95 boots for around $85 shipped last time.

Watrdawg

08-27-10, 09:37

I am currently wearing these boots and love them. They are the Vasque Boreas.

Cabelas has them on sale now for $49.99. They're normally $139.99

http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0078056813352a&navCount=1&podId=0078056&parentId=cat601932&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat20564-cat601932&catalogCode=9IS&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601932&hasJS=true

Daemonbane

08-27-10, 09:40

I'm currently wearing Lowa Renegade GTX's, been wearing them for 4 months now as daily usage. My daily usage entitles running around an office, walking around a mechanics workshop, and driving places. I'm liking them a lot so far, but I think I'll need different insole soon, for better support.

Spurholder

08-27-10, 09:58

BattleDrill3

08-27-10, 12:04

Almost forgot: a good pair of boots will last for years. The soles will go eventually, however, and for that problem check out Resole America. They coordinate with almost every known manufacturer to resole the boots properly. Don't make the mistake of assuming that any boot shop can resole any brand of boot. Another mistake you'll make only once.

FoxBravo

08-27-10, 12:58

Bates TR Kiowa's. Great boot and feel great after wearing all day at a range.

Great boot! Like them alot.
Btw, the boot is from Tactical Research by Belleville.

M4Fundi

08-27-10, 17:46

For those with low volume feet Kayland and LaSportiva are the way to go. Italian boot makers that make top notch footwear. I'd love to wear some of the brands mentioned but my feet just slop around in them.

CplHicks

08-27-10, 18:12

Converse Pursuit boots. Had them 2 years, comfy to wear every day and they'll keep your feet warm in the winter.

standsalone

08-29-10, 13:43

Not to put too fine a point on it … but since we have the ability to buy 'beyond issue' you really owe it to yourself to try 3 or 4 brand on before you commit. That might mean mail order and possibly some extra shipping.

But it's your feet man … :p

The short list for the best lasts of readily available brands:

Asolo, Scarpa, Kayland, Lowa, Danner

And you can get the all at zappos with free ship both ways …

/shilling ;)

I have used danner before and I own some asolos currently... I have yet to use lowa or scarpa. I was very pleased with the asolo but I was intrigued by the lowa.

Von Rheydt

08-29-10, 19:28

I have used danner before and I own some asolos currently... I have yet to use lowa or scarpa. I was very pleased with the asolo but I was intrigued by the lowa.

Stop being intrigued. They make damn fine cars and also damn fine boots in Germany.

I have the big Lowa Mountain boots and the desert Meindl's, both feel like your feet are having sex with the boots.

However, if I were to spend some more cash on a pair of non-military origin boots it would be on something from the Meindl MFS or MFS Vakuum range. I tried a couple of pairs of these on and almost, almost, flexed the plastic card. They have all the benefits of the classic Lowa or Meindl boots but they are lined with memory foam. This means they will form to the exact shape of the foot and ankle area.............pure unadulterated.............

http://www.meindl.de/english/

Dave in NC

08-31-10, 21:58

Just tried several for my 12 wide/tall instep/fat feet, and have liked Original SWAT and 5.11 before, but all the store had in those were zipper boots, and I don't care for those (can't get them tight enough).

I reluctantly tried several pair of others (Bates, Danners, Rockys) but was most impressed with the Timberland Pro Valor series TRENTON boots.

Plenty wide enough, light, waterproof, but cool. And the lining is "slick" so my wide/tall/fat foot goes in easy as pie.:cool:

AND THEY ARE COMFORTABLE!!!!

kac

09-02-10, 14:41

Stop being intrigued. They make damn fine cars and also damn fine boots in Germany.

I have the big Lowa Mountain boots and the desert Meindl's, both feel like your feet are having sex with the boots.

However, if I were to spend some more cash on a pair of non-military origin boots it would be on something from the Meindl MFS or MFS Vakuum range. I tried a couple of pairs of these on and almost, almost, flexed the plastic card. They have all the benefits of the classic Lowa or Meindl boots but they are lined with memory foam. This means they will form to the exact shape of the foot and ankle area.............pure unadulterated.............

http://www.meindl.de/english/

Lowa boots are excellent but I must give a caveat. I have broken the little toe on my right foot several times, and thus it requires a little more room. My feet fit fine in most company's boots in a 12D (for example, no problems with Danners), but because of the last Lowa must use, in all of the three Lowas I've bought, after several hours in the boots, I start to have some discomfort.

Just a word to the wise.

jht3

09-05-10, 14:28

amazingly well informed message too long to quote

wow. that was 15 years of experience crammed into a long post. while i have zero combat experience, i do have years of hiking and alpine mountaineering under my belt and your post sums up everything i've learned, and more.

i too have flat feet and thankfully learned back in high school that custom orthotics from a podiatrist are the way to go. after that, i gave up on off-the-rack jobs but it sounds like there are some decent ones out there now that i might check out

i also learned that not all boots fit my foot. i also have a narrow heel and have completely worn the skin off them too many times because of ill fitting boots and socks. friction is not your friend. i bought what i thought was an awesome pair of gore-tex crampon-compatible Vasque alpine boots that ****ed my feet up something awful before i shit canned them. they never "broke in", just broke my feet. my current pair of gore-tex boots are Zamberlan and am a huge fan. the italians know their shit.

it is also important to treat the leather so it doesn't dry out, yes, even gore-tex boots. different leathers call for different treatments. smooth leather, suede, nubuck, etc.

RWK

09-05-10, 23:44

...they never "broke in", just broke my feet.

Speaking of which, any of you boot guys have specific recommendations for an efficient way to break in a new pair of boots?

kac

09-06-10, 00:07

The only thing that's ever worked for me is to steal the strategy from baseball players. Start working in your boots like they start their gloves: begin while you're still using the old one. That way you're not forced to start doing humps with 60 pounds in your ruck for 15+ miles/day.

Do a mile the first day then take them off. Let them sit a day. Do a couple miles the day after that and so on. That method works well for me.

militarymoron

09-06-10, 00:53

great post, battledrill3. thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

BattleDrill3

09-06-10, 01:49

Look at that! A thumbs up from Military Morons! Truly an honor. I'm not being sarcastic; that site is my go-to reference for complete and objective info on kit that I don't know about. I do kind of hate the guy who runs it though...up to his neck in free kit. But, he uses his powers for good, and a lot of people are better for it. Thanks. (By the way, do you in fact get everything for free, or is it loaned? Just curious.)

Oh, and I wanted to donate to your site but my Paypal account is screwed up at the moment. Other means?

Be safe.

Von Rheydt

09-06-10, 08:25

Speaking of which, any of you boot guys have specific recommendations for an efficient way to break in a new pair of boots?

Slowly for a few months before you need them.

If anyone wants any help ordering Lowa or Meindl from Germany where they are cheaper I can help with comms.

Mak8080

09-06-10, 10:51

I've been using Salomons, Asolos, and Lowas for years. I think my preference is the Salomons. Great fit for me.

militarymoron

09-06-10, 12:52

I do kind of hate the guy who runs it though...up to his neck in free kit. But, he uses his powers for good, and a lot of people are better for it. Thanks. (By the way, do you in fact get everything for free, or is it loaned? Just curious.)

LOL - thanks. items reviewed are either supplied by the manufacturer or purchased. don't worry about donating - you've done enough with your service.

cop1211

09-06-10, 19:43

I'm thinking about getting a pair of Salomon 4d gtx. Any thoughts?

BattleDrill3

09-06-10, 20:40

Don't think. Just do it. Now. Have you worn Salomon's before? If not, you are in for a surprise. Before I wore my first pair, I was simply not aware that shoes could be that comfortable. I've worn them in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Alaska; my only regret is that I have but two thumbs to give.

misanthropist

09-07-10, 18:32

I'm a fairly avid hiker myself and a research fiend, so this thread was only part of a long process of searching, reading, testing, and evaluating...

But at the same time I found BD3's information very useful and it pretty much gave me the final push to put some money on the table.

I bought a pair of Salomon Quest 4d gtx's about an hour ago. They are some damn nice boots. I will wear them around the house for the next couple of days, then try them on a quick hike through three summits on a small local mountain Thursday morning...roughly 5-6 miles, 1500' elevation gain, very harsh terrain though - lots of broken rock, trail can be pretty treacherous. I burned it off last week in 2.5 hours but had lighter trail shoes on and it really pounded the hell out of my feet.

I went straight from heavy boots down to trail runners a couple of years ago after an injury (then subsequent physio which really strengthened my ankles and feet!) When hiking through forests etc I find I can do it in trail shoes most times - the ground is forgiving enough I guess. But as the altitude increases in the coastal mountains the terrain just gets too rough and I really wanted a mid-weight boot that would let me get up into the mountains a little more. Also, the north end of Vancouver Island is often so wet that winter hikes are done where you can't see the trail - it's under three inches of muddy water most of the year. So again boots are needed for safety - it's very easy to hurt yourself if you can't see the trail of course! And some trails might only see one hiker a week...and anybody off the trail might as well be on the moon for all the help they are likely to have access to in the event of an injury. And a bit of gore-tex in a climate that wet probably wouldn't hurt either.

So I ended up getting a pair of the Quest 4d gtx boots, as mentioned here. I could offer to give my thoughts after beating on them for a few miles, but it seems like they've already been well tested and by better people than me.

So really I'd just like to thank the people who put so much useful information into this thread, because it's been a great resource for evaluating other reviews of a number of quality boots. And I am definitely looking forward to getting a good bit of dirt time in on these beauties!

cop1211

09-07-10, 22:07

BattleDrill3

09-08-10, 02:42

Misanthropist: Thanks, bro. That's what this site is for. It means a lot; I was almost convinced the other day to quit posting information after a couple posts devolved into a war of words. Von Rheydt justly reminded me to remain professional and take things with a grain of salt. Since then, I've recently encountered more than a few people who are using the forums for their intended purpose, and I was encouraged.

I used to moonlight at an outdoor store for the ridiculous discounts, and the trail runner vs. light hiker question was probably the most common. The truth is that the lines are continuing to blur. Throw in some misconceptions, as well as the new-ish low cut 'casual light-hiker' category, and there is a lot of confusion.

The biggest thing that separates a trail runner from a hiking shoe (of any level) is the firmness of the midsole. That is the single most important factor in trying to match boots to whatever conditions you may encounter. And contrary to what the name sounds like, midsole doesn't mean 'halfway down the length of the sole.' Rather, it's the layer between the insole (where the bottom of your feet touch) and the outsole (what touches the ground).

A firm midsole is necessary simply for the fact that without them, the muscles on the bottom of your feet will be doing all the work to keep itself stable under your body weight. (Think what your feet do in a running shoe, which has a very flexible midsole.) Put some weight on your back, or even without extra weight, a lot of inclines, and your feet are not all strong enough to keep up. Also, it helps protect the sole of your feet from rocks, etc.

You may notice after a long hike, the muscles on the bottom of your feet (the plantar fascia, specifically) are sore; likely, boots not firm enough were the culprit. This is particularly the case with steep inclines; the flex in the shoes puts all the work back onto the muscles of the feet.

Most companies, for light hikers, use what's called triple-density eva foam for the insole. For what's required, the word 'foam' may make you uneasy, but it works perfectly, while saving weight. (Remember, every pound of shoe weight on your feet translates to about the same energy consumption as if carrying five or six pounds on your back.)

With proper design, the massive outsoles you see on low-cut light hikers aren't at all necessary. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that entire category of shoe (the low casual hiker ) is pretty unnecessary, in terms of functionality. A Salomon trail runner will provide just the same support and more stability, with less weight.

The only reason that 'genre' exists is for a more subdued, less sporty look than trail runners that people can wear to work. They sell for that reason, and that people incorrectly think they need them to do light hiking. Other than looks, there is not a single advantage afforded by most of those shoes. Only disadvantages, really. Mind you - there are some that genuinely have a stiffer midsole. That said, with those low-cut shoes, the parts around your ankles (called the collar) will dig into your legs like crazy when tackling inclines. That force, normally absorbed by sole flexion, has to go somewhere.

A true light hiker (think Asolo Fugitive, Vasque Breeze, etc) is the next real step up from a shoe built as well as a Salomon trail runner. These have a higher ankle, and a stiffer midsole. The misconception is that the boot higher on the leg will provide protection against twisting the ankle. That is largely incorrect. To do that, the sides of the boots would have to be much, much more rigid. The higher ankle serves two real functions: to protect the ankle from scrapes and blows from rocks, etc; and to better keep the heel seated in the boot. In those boots, the surface of the outsole under the heel tends to be wider, giving better heel stability; that's really what 'prevents' you from rolling your ankle, not the higher ankle coverage.

I realize that means that about 99% of the world's notions of hiking boots are wrong, but I'm afraid that's the case. Think - if you had a pack on your back, or were moving briskly, do you honestly think those three inches of leather would stop you from twisting your ankle? Not so much. The other advantage to higher collars on boots is the flex in the material at the ankle allows the energy from a step up an incline that would, on a stiff, low cut shoe otherwise be translated into the collar cutting into your ankle. (What I mentioned earlier.)

From this point, we graduate to the 'real' boots. Ones with little or no flex, and harder and higher sides, all the way up to actual plastic boots. These are unnecessary for 99% of the people in the world. That simple. I won't even discuss those for now. Just find a good middle ground, and you're set. People tend to make the mistake of buying too much boot. They're too heavy, and far too stiff to allow any kind of flex. The boots will dig into the Achilles tendon, calf, and ankle, and the entire experience will be ruined. Remember - aching feet will ruin an entire trip. That will be the only thing you really remember, and the time will have been wasted.

I keep bringing up Salomons, but for a reason. They are exceptionally built. The difference between them and every other shoe company is simple; their trail running line is conceived for the sake of racing, or at the very least, serious training. Better construction and minimal weight is the result. So when you take that mindset to boots, everyone wins.

But again, be mindful of I said earlier about the Salomon boots: these are light hikers, leaning more towards the light; the midsoles are very similar to that of the XA Pro 3d running shoe. They are significantly stiffer than the trail runner, but the danger, with heavy weight or steep inclines, is plantar fascia pain. I'll be interested to see what you think. Please let us know.

For those still pondering the light hiker question, there are literally hundreds of reputable choices out there. Follow these guidelines for reference. For fairly tame pursuits, go with a Salomon XA Pro 3d. With sharper inclines, 30ish lb's on your back, think Salomon Quest 4d's or another of their hikers. Anything more, or much steeper inclines, think Asolo Fugitive or Flame. Those models will cover just about anything you'll encounter. (On the way to Everest, I wore Salomon trail runners for the first few days. Things got a tad trickier, and I transitioned to the Asolo Fugitives all the way to the base. Not a problem.)

I'm suggesting these models not to get you to buy them specifically, but to try them on to get a frame of reference as to the stiffness of the midsole necessary for each level of difficulty in the expected activity.

Hope that provides some clarity.

Be safe.

misanthropist

09-08-10, 10:38

"Too much boot" is a common issue, I think. The store where I bought my Salomons had two people working the boot rack: one was an old German guy who explained how he had fit some crampons to his 4d GTXs for a short bout of mountaineering in the middle of an eight day unsupported trek at the BC/Alaska border, and one girl about 22 who told me that the same boot would only be sufficient for day hikes with no pack on level ground.

I would definitely say that putting crampons on these boots would be taking things to an extreme...but I think if your feet and ankles are in good shape you can get away with WAY less boot than a lot of people would expect.\

I did back to back 20 milers last year with a 40 pound pack in some Montrail hard rocks - a trail running shoe. Midway through the trail was a climb known locally as "the devil's staircase". I was a little sore but it was manageable, and I think if you're not developing shin splints or anything, you're probably fine.

However it is also true that up until a few years ago, I could probably not have done this. I put on a pair of construction boots when I was 15 for my first job and didn't wear much else, ever, for the next 13 years. My arches were so collapsed it was ridiculous. The constant use of heavy boots laced up tight meant my plantar fascia and other stabilizer muscles in my feet just never developed. Then I broke my ankle at work and needed a bunch of physio, and while I was there I picked my physiotherapists' (I had two, both hot women in their late twenties...it was great) brains about my recurring shin splint issues. They explained about the collapsed arches and overpronation issues I had, and fortunately there was a lot of overlap between the physio for the ankle and the physio for the other issues.

I worked my ass off building those muscles up. I used to need a lot of pronation control - like fancy insoles in shoes already designed for pronation control. Now I need no pronation control at all. My arches have come back to where they probably were when I was 14.

Anyway this is drifting pretty badly but the point I am dragging out here is that what boot you can get away with seems to be directly related to what condition your lower leg musculature is in. If your feet are strong, I don't think you need nearly as much boot.

Furthermore I think taking trail runners on occasional steeps is a good idea...I think regular use of the local "grouse grind" trail (2.9 km trail, 853m elevation gain) and always in runners is keeping my feet strong.

In conclusion, I plan on pushing the limits of my Quest 4Ds a little bit, which I think I will get away with on account of my experience with pushing trail runners WAY too far! I do expect the occasional sore foot experience...but I am out there recreationally, not for work, so if I have to slow down, I just slow down.

BattleDrill3

09-08-10, 14:05

Misanthropist:

What exactly did you do for the arch problem? While barefoot running and custom orthotics (at the expense of taxpayers - thanks for that) seem to have to problem in control, it's still a bother. To the point that if I don't wear shoes for awhile (a lazy Sunday, say), I'll feel it on the inner parts of my knees. They are that flat.

Please let me know. I wasn't aware of this issue when I was younger (lack of knowledge), and I'm paying the price now. Again, not a huge issue, but I'd like to not have to rely on other things.

Be safe.

OldGreg

09-08-10, 15:07

BD3: What's your guess on how many days to break-in a Meindl? They seem so stiff out of the box.

misanthropist

09-08-10, 20:41

Arch fixes:

1) lots and lots of this: lay a towel on the floor in front of you, scrunch it up with your toes. repeat until suicidal

2) arch flexing - this took me a long time to figure out because I never used my arch muscles before. But now I can consciously pull the balls of my feet back towards my heel like there is a string attached.

3) with the arches flexed, i would stand on a balance board, one foot at a time. Eventually this progressed to standing on one foot on a board on half a rubber ball, and stretching out horizontally forwards and backwards (obviously I can't go all the way horizontal backwards or I would be in Cirque de Soleil).

4) walking lengthwise on pool noodles. I don't know why this works.

I hope something in there is useful to you...I spent a LOT of time on those but I also had the luck of two hot physiotherapists to coach me, stretch out my muscles and "mobilize" (wrench the **** out of) my ankle every other day for four months. Yeah...my medical insurance kicks ass.

Von Rheydt

09-08-10, 20:52

A couple of years ago we noticed our little chap, now 7 years old, had what looked like flat feet or fallen arches. We took him to the Doc, he got him to flex his feet in different ways. This showed that he has arches but they are not fully developed.

Anyway, we read up around the subject and discussed it with our family doc, now the little guy:

1. Has a mixing bowl with around 30 pencils in it. With each foot he picks up all the pencils and places them out side the bowl and then puts them back in.
2. He does what he calls "Foot ups". That is holding onto the dining table and slowly moving from foot flat to tiptoe around 20 times.
3. Runs around barefoot as much as possible to use and develop the muscles in the feet rather than relying on shoes for support. If we go out he wears Crocs or Teva's.

BattleDrill3

09-08-10, 23:42

Thanks for the arch-strengthening info. Yeah, that all sounds about like what I thought it was going to be. Kinda hoped there was a pill I could take, or something. Two hours over every day is taken up by some kind of physical therapy (shoulder/back strengthening exercises). Might as well make it three. I don't sleep much, anyway. I'll look into it. And about the hot physiotherapists...I'm afraid my medical insurance isn't that good. But whatever.

OldGreg: The break-in time depends entirely upon what model and line you are looking to get. (Or have.) To be honest, all good boots, particularly ones as good quality as Meindls, are purpose built. By that, I mean that if the boots are meant to be light hikers, they will flex a little, as they should, but if they are meant stay stiff, they will stay stiff. (It helps provide more support for the foot, which is really not designed to take heavy weight on inclines.)

Boots are nowadays mostly made of synthetic materials, and as a result, the uppers aren't going to give too much. Breaking in a higher technology boot is really about putting some creases/thinning out the stress zones - on top of the foot (where the ankle and foot meet, right on top of all those ligaments), where the tongue folds (called the gusset) and rubs the tops of your feet, and at the ankle collar. Again, it depends on the boot.

Look on their website, or go to a knowledgeable dealer. Models are labeled A-D. A is for light hiking, D for crampon compatible boots to climb serious peaks. A, A/B, and B boots will get some give in them over time. Think a three weeks to a month of wearing them every day to really start agreeing with your feet. Tie them as tight as you normally would (it's going to be uncomfortable at first, but if you don't, it will take longer and won't break in the way you actually wear them), and just man up. There's no easy way. Look for A/B boots out of their MFS or MFS Vakuum (MFS stands for Memory Foam System...get ready for some seriously comfortable boots) lines or the Air Revolution line (ridiculously well-ventilated). The Trekking line is comfortable, but the other three I mentioned offer some really unique features. Overall, think about a month. Hope that helps.

HAVOC 5150

09-09-10, 01:48

I have a pair of OTB Ferdelance in black, they are a comfortable pair of boots and have had them for about 9 months. I do have several complaints about them.

1. After having them for about 2 months the nylon side vents on the side began to tear.

2. The soles on the boots are hard, when I go into the jail (or any hard surface for that matter) and the floors are wet from cleaning, animals flooding or coming in from outside and it was raining they don't grip well and cause me to slip.

3. I have been wearing them deer hunting the past couple of weeks and the boot do not grip well on the dry grass (my converse boots did great) once again causing me to slip.

Like I said they are a comfortable pair of boots and breath well and are very light. I don't know if I'd buy another pair though.

Von Rheydt

09-09-10, 08:27

BD3: What's your guess on how many days to break-in a Meindl? They seem so stiff out of the box.

Depends which ones you have, how far you walk, the terrain you walk in, how you clean them, what you clean them with.

Top end leather Lowa, Meindls and Haix are hand made made with hand selected 3mm, thats 1/8" thick, leather. The padding makes them comfortable without needing to bend or crease the leather too much. Creases will slowly develop with time.

My current pair of Lowa are the Mountain GTX, they are 3 years old and on a scale of 1<- to-> 5 have probably done 1500 miles on scale level 3 to 4 terrain. They are comfy and still look almost new. I wipe them over with a wet cloth and then treat with Nikwax products.

I have more than a few friends in various parts of the German military where Lowa, Meindl and Haix are standard issue (wonder where mine came from). A very good friend of mine is a Jaeger officer in the Mountain/Alpine troops and he wears what they call the camp boots all the time........ even off duty. Camp boots are a generic no label boot made by either Lowa, Meindl or Haix. His favourite pair that smell like giraffe shit are 10 years old and have been re-soled 3 times AND compared to other boots out there they still look more than respectable added to which he says they are just about getting comfortable.

As you are doubtless aware, the thinner fabric boots take somewhat less time to break in. I had a pair of Meindl Desert Fox boots magically appear one day, they killed my feet the first couple of times I wore them and took around two weeks to wear comfortably.

THIS MAY BE OF INTEREST TO SOME INDIVIDUALS: The German SF gets to play with and assist with development of the Lowa, Meindl, Haix boots. This resulted in:

1. Meindl desert fox boots are the general issue for German and British troop. The SF boys wanted goretex..........they got it.........they did not like what the goretex did to the wearability of the boots so now there is a Gen 2 desert Fox and SF do not use goretex.

2. BD3 and other sufferers pay attention here. With the present situation there are a few High Speed Tier 1 Units that do not get much down time. The stress of working with load carrying equipment and plate carriers is starting to tell and bodies are not recovering. So Haix was asked to design boot for these SF units to help counter lower back problems. They have done so and the boot has been on sale for a while. I KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE IN THE BRITISH ARMY AND YOU GO TO THE DOC AND HE DIAGNOSES A BACK PROBLEM YOU CAN THEN GO TO THE QM AND DEMAND THAT YOU ARE ISSUED WITH THESE BOOTS. Further, where SWAT teams in the UK were being issued with the Lowa Mountain boots they are now being issued with these boots as they are less likely to result in back injuries whilst carrying assault gear. The boot has a specially formed footbed inside that supports the arched area of the foot throwing you into a more natural stance.

The boots are called HAIX KSK:

http://www.asmc.de/en/Footwear/Boots/German-Army-Mountain-trooper-boot-KSK-3000-p.html

I am planning a 6 week Sahara trip in a couple of years for which I shall be investing in a pair of the Lowa desert boots. Whilst lightweight training shoe like boots are nice, comfy, light and flexible I prefer a more robust boot for real bundu bashing.

http://www.lowaboots.com/catalog/ShowBoot.cfm?StockNum=2308780411&Category=8&Type=M

kac

09-09-10, 15:52

With your experience with these boots, do you know if any of them have a less acute angle in the toes, meaning more room longitudinally for the small toe than the Lowas that I own (Renegade GTX for example).

Von Rheydt

09-09-10, 21:27

This would be because of your broken toe problem. To be honest I could not say if the Haix would or would not fit you. I tried some and they fit me. My wife says I have feet like a Hobbit ......... I'll let you imagine.

There are a couple of stores that sell them over here if you are near one of them, check their site for the locations.

If you try them and like them I can probably help get you some from Germany at the German minus (19%) sales tax price.

I was allowed to wear a sample pair around the carpeted showroom of one of the UK's big military and police suppliers for an hour. The formed footbed is a peculiar feeling for a while but once you get used to it they are very comfy. Like I said for problem back sufferers the British Army is having to buy a couple of pairs of these at $300 each if they are asked for...........first though the guys have to find out that they exist and we know how that works.

kac

09-10-10, 06:14

Danke, sehr!

ColdDeadHands

09-10-10, 06:38

I'm wearing these (http://www.topbrassmilitary.com/OTB-Boots/Footwear/Jungle-Boots/127-005-OTB-Desert-Bushmaster-Boots) daily for over a year now. Great quality & light weight.

Von Rheydt

09-10-10, 08:21

Danke, sehr!

Gerne.

Kentucky Cop

09-16-10, 15:01

I have been watching the series "Surviving the Cut" on NatGeo or Discovery channel, hell, I don't remember which one. Anyways, the Navy EOD guys were all wearing some boots like Solomons or one of the other brands that look alike. I did notice that on the bottom of the boot in had a yellow circle directly in the middle of the sole if that gives anyone on here a clue as to which one's they wear.

Anyways, boots looked good when they jumped out of the Helo and the series is great too.

KC

OldGreg

09-17-10, 10:18

Thanks for the replies, it's much appreciated guys!

Redneck19

09-17-10, 10:52

GRRREAT post by battledrill3!

I was always curious how/when to use the powder...

Heard good things about Salomon and Merril. My dad swears by Asolo.
I use Altama Jungle boots for light hiking/"muddin" and Vibram (waterproof, steel toe) for "other stuff".
The Altamas are great in terms of comfort/weight, but I go with Vibram for range trips. (I just have this thing about needing to wear steel toe boots while shooting). :D

For farmwork... CARHARTT!!!

EzGoingKev

09-19-10, 13:03

I had read that another exercise for your arches is to put a tennis ball on the floor and roll the arch of your bare foot over it while pressing down on it some.

You can do it while sitting at a desk working, watching TV, etc.

BattleDrill3

09-24-10, 00:15

Thanks again for the arch info. The arch-strengthening exercises seem to building my patience, and not my arches. The scrunching up a towel bit makes me want to eat babies. Walking on a pool noodle was funny until the twentieth time I did it. I threw it against the wall in frustration, was further maddened by the lack of noise, and threw my phone for finality. So there's that.

Redneck: Not a problem, bro. That's what we're here for.

Be safe.

EzGoingKev

11-19-10, 20:02

I bought a pair of Scarpa Kailash's. Really nice boots. I will have to say they are THE most comfortable boot I have ever worn out of the box. Light too.

I looked at them and the Asolo FSN's. They were nice too but I felt the Kailash's were a little better. For anyone considering these here is what I noticed from trying them on.

The Asolo's are pretty close size wise. I am either a 9 or 9.5 depending on the brand and I took a 9 in these. They run wide in the toe area which is why I could wear a 9. This was with their M/M width. The guy at REI had a pair on and said he loved them, wears them year round without any issues. When I commented they seemed wide he told me that is how they run. Asolo might be a brand the guy with the broken toe problem should check out.

The Kailash's are definitely more narrow. I took a 9.5 in these to get more room in the toe. I could not do the 9's. The girl at EMS where I bought them said Scarpa's run narrow, but she was such a bitch I really did not get anything else from her. These might be a brand the guy that had the long but narrow feet might want to look at.

Right now EMS is doing a 20% off sale so here is a screencap of the coupon.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Kybyq3n1q3w/TOcnHLtoSaI/AAAAAAAADAY/-oGkRovfssQ/s640/Untitled.jpg

I posted this up in a new thread in the Survival section so more people would see it. I figured since this is a different section of the board, people might have subscribed to this thread, and people were talking about buying boots I would put it in here too.

EDIT - 11/21/10 - I got an email today from EMS advising Tuesday is the last day for this coupon.

Mark71

12-04-10, 15:16

50% off your entire Danner Boots order. Good for December 4th only..........

http://lfi.cachefly.net/ff-2010/images/friend-family-2010_r1_c1.png

http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=4c4fae7dc67ebb7babf27dc7d&id=fabe49c7d2&e=

msigette

12-07-10, 15:51

Im just going to put in my .02 and try and warn others as best i can. Whatever you do stay away from Blackhawk boots. They are comfortable at the beginning, but they are poorly made. The linnings come out in just a couple of months. Than the souls start to fall off. I actually had one soul rip completly off while walking.

travistheone

12-07-10, 16:02

mikeross506

12-07-10, 16:02

I've spent alot of time downrange in a lot of different boots. I used to swear by my Altima Jungle Boots but they can't hold a candle to the product Oakley delivers! I wish I would have discovered them back in 2003!

Black Jeep

12-07-10, 17:22

I skipped the whole thread, but am a pretty opinionated boot guy.
I wear redwing work boots everyday. These are boots I trust. That is my description of tactical. If the SHTF and I bug out, I will be wearing the same shoes I wear all day every day. Drop Dead Reliable. Comfortable. How would you like to have to throw on a pair of boots once a month for training? Your feet would hurt until you broke them in, and still wouldn't fit like your normal boots.

Any boot that lasts, and you wear often is a good boot. I have some high zoot boots that sit. Not very tactical if the tags are still attached.

+1 on on the Redwings. I started wearing the boots they used to call the Irish Setter back in the 90's and I have two pair still today. One pair is brand new and sitting in the box for when I eventually wear this current pair out.

Since my motorcycle wreck that nearly claimed my right foot, I have to wear boots that have significant ankle support. I like my Redwings for that.

The other boots that I prefer are the old Doc Marten 1460's, but DM has had those made in China since 2003. Recently they reintroduced the British made 1460's, but they are almost twice as expensive.

rsgard

12-07-10, 17:31

for cheaper boots i wear Bates. I can wear them for almost 48 hours without discomfort but because of my job i like to have cheaper boots in case someone vomits or bleeds all over i wont cry when i throw them away

thorswhisper

12-11-10, 00:27

Garmont

Heartbreaker

12-11-10, 01:08

I've been using Redwings for a long time, for how long they last the cost is nothing, plus they will clean and relace them for free whenever you bring them in the store. By far the most comfortable boots my feet have ever been in as well.

EzGoingKev

12-12-10, 11:52

Hot Sauce

12-15-10, 19:24

First off, I'd like give a big hats off to Battle Drill for the long and very informative posts.

I recently snatched up a pair of Asolo Fugitive GTXs, and they feel like they a built solidly. Haven't had a chance to really put them through serious hikes, just some stomping away in deep snow.

I want to give people a heads up. I got them @ Sierra Trading Post, and I got one hell of a deal, and its still on. Cost me $111 plus shipping, which is a steal.
Link:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,83990_Asolo-Fugitive-Gore-Tex-Hiking-Boots-Waterproof-For-Men.html?sizeFilter=9

Happy holidays folks

markdh720

01-06-11, 21:56

It's time for me to get some new boots.

I've been wearing Converse boots on and off (mostly off) for the last two years. I didn't like them. They kept my feet warm, but were hardly comfortable and started falling apart not long after purchasing them. I had better luck with the 5.11s before these.

I will definitely look into some of the recommendations here, but has anyone heard anything of Under Armour Valsetz? I have used UA's sneakers extensively at work and they have been great.

The_Swede

07-19-11, 17:41

Are boots made by Lundhags available in the US?

dirt_diver

08-10-11, 14:57

What a great thread. I'm on my feet all day, up, down, in, out, over hill and dell. I have about 5-6 pairs of Danners and really like them all, but sometimes I like a lighter weight hiker like the Vasques I have on today.
After reading the great posts by BD and then weighing my own needs, I think I'm going to take the plunge on some Lowa Renegade.

EzGoingKev

02-29-12, 17:49

I am going to resurrect this thread due to REI having a sale on Keen brand boots (and REI brand stuff too) from their outlet section

REI Outlet Sale (http://www.rei.com/outlet/search?crt=%28attribute_value_nested%3Dcategory_root%3D%28+Category_x3A__x20_Outlet%29%28+category_root%29%28+_x38_001%29%29%28free_text%3D%3D%28+REI-OUTLET.com_x20_2_x20_Days_x20_of_x20_Deals%29%29&search=REI-OUTLET.com+2+Days+of+Deals&page_size=109&hist=search%2CREI-OUTLET.com+2+Days+of+Deals&pageSizeRedirect)

Enter the code OUTSAVE22 at checkout and get an additional 22% off. Applies to outlet items, REI and Keen brands only.

Ends Thursday, March 1st.

ColdDeadHands

02-29-12, 20:27

I stopped by my local Top Brass store on Sunday to check out some boots since my OTB's are starting to fall apart after wearing them almost daily for the last 2-3 years.
I tried on the Under Armors when a sales person came by and told me that they are more comfortable then the OTB Boots I've been wearing but that they only last about 6 months before falling apart.
I guess I'll get another set of OTB's since I've been really happy with the performance & durability of them.

awm14hp

03-01-12, 15:47

TacMedic556

03-01-12, 21:02

For comfort, durability, mountains, all terrain.....one word:

ZAMBERLAN

Endur

03-01-12, 21:15

blackhawk warrior wear desert boots
rocky c4
fiveten enforcer or pursuit
lowa zephyer

Can't go wrong with any of those.

Ghost__1

03-01-12, 21:30

http://www.lowaboots.com/catalog/ShowBoot.cfm?StockNum=3105320410&Category=8&Type=M

This is what i got. I purchased from Grey Group in Fayetteville, NC for $200 and change in Late 2010. I've done three 12mile rd marches with 40 lb ruck (EIB), 3 Airborne operations and wore them everyday until middle of August when I got out.

I have to say that I am incredibly impressed with these boots. The boots I had before were Danner tfx which were nice but a little too stiff. My Lowa's still in fact look reaally good for being over a year old. I still wear them hunting and hiking just not everyday. The only complaint I have is about the laces. Mine broke in about a month. Took some extra laces from danner and havent had any issues since. They honestly feel like tennis shoes when broken in. Fairly light as well.

Endur

03-01-12, 21:52

I forgot to add switch your laces with some gutted 550 and no more pressure points and they don't break easy.

jmoney

03-10-12, 15:10

anyone have kayland hunters? mine have been pretty great. Coming up on a year now and they are still in top form

M4Fundi

03-10-12, 19:46

anyone have kayland hunters? mine have been pretty great. Coming up on a year now and they are still in top form

Kayland boots are OUTSTANDING!!! I have the Vertigo High GTX and they are the best boots within their category I have ever owned! I will be getting a pair of the Kayland MXT GTX for "cool weather" speed climbing and am going to get a pair of the Vertigo K Approach shoes before Summer. I am very interested in their Hunter USA model. Do they feel heavy to you?

Kayland boots are very technical and meant for serious users. The rubber soles are the grippiest I have ever felt in comparison to other brands.

jmoney

03-10-12, 20:03

yeah they grip all right I ran through the rain and hail the other day to get to my car and they really hold onto the ground

after a long time, they might start to feel heavy. I have not gone on more than 2-3 day hikes in these so far but they have been fine.

agrius

04-21-12, 12:54

I've got a pair of Asolo tps 520's and love them, but they might be a little overkill for everyday uses

Lone_Ranger

05-06-12, 17:23

jmoney

05-06-12, 17:57

my last pair of merrells disintegrated after very very light use and i was told that is normal by customer service.

will not purchase anything else from them period

EzGoingKev

05-06-12, 17:58

I am not 100% impressed with my Merrels durability either.

jmoney

05-06-12, 18:16

MFWIC2

05-06-12, 20:09

I was thinking of trying the new Danner 6" Melee boots.

Has anybody here tried them out?

jmoney

05-06-12, 20:24

My dad has some of their hunting boots, as far as I know he loves them.

Ironman8

05-06-12, 21:57

Those of you that mentioned Lowa Zephyr boots, are they decent for light backpacking? Or would Merrell Sawtooth be a better choice? The review video at US Cav emphasizes they are "assault boots for people that spend all day in a vehicle, but need stability in lightweight boot for running, and not for x-country rucking. Some of the written reviews at Rei, say they are good for backpacking. Including one review that mentioned SF use in The Stan w/ 100+ pound ruck. A buddy of mine came back from a shooting class and said they were a few military guys there, and all swore by the Zephyr

I'm not a professional mountaineer by any means, but my thoughts on the Zephyrs are that they are more towards a "sneaker" in terms of support vs a full-blown mountain boot. They are super comfortable, but I think the amount of weight that you can carry with them will depend completely on how strong your feet, ankles, and joints are.

The trend actually seems to be going the way of lighter "sneaker-type" boots, but most people will probably put a more supportive insole (ie. SuperFeet) in place of the factory insole in most boots to reduce foot fatigue and increase the support for heavier loads.

Personally, I narrowed my search for a boot and tried on the Zephyrs and the Asolo Fugitives at REI and tested how it felt going from 0 to sprint. While support for backpacking loads was a consideration, I was more concerned with the flexibility of the boot and the ability to run with it. The Zephyrs gave the flexibility that you would expect from a sneaker (meaning a less "clunky" sprint) than the Fugitives, BUT I felt just fine sprinting in the Fugitives and figured they would only get better with some breaking in. The Fugitives did have the edge in the support category though.

I can't speak to the qualities or long term characteristics of the Zephyrs since I went with the Fugitives. But after some real use with them, I think I absolutely made the right decision! I've hiked with them out in Wyoming as well as used them in a two day handgun class in the middle of a downpour. Plenty of support and comfort while hiking (although without a heavy load) and kept my feet dry when I was in a downpour and 3" of water at the class. Also, even with the Gore-Tex lining, my feet really don't sweat much in hotter weather, surprisingly.

It really depends on what your uses are going to be with them and how much weight you think your lower extremities can handle. If this will only be a range/class boot, I would say that the Zephyrs would be my choice (I would go with the GTX model too btw). If this is a "do all" boot (classes + hiking), I would go with the Fugitives. But that's just me.

As a side note: I could probably have gotten away with the Zephyrs, as far as support for heavier loads goes, but my decision was based on reviews that I got on the boots from guys on this forum that I trust. I figured that if I could adequately run in them, yet have a little more support for any backpacking that I might do, then I would have the "do all" boot that I was looking for. Turned out, for me, I made the right choice. YMMV

Hope that helps some.

The_War_Wagon

05-06-12, 22:12

Because I live IN the urban jungle, I went with Altima Light Speeds as my spring/summer/fall boots for humpin' it around the concrete savannah.

I need some new hiking/backpacking boots for the eastern forest here, seeing as how Junior just crossed over into the Boy Scouts. I'll do some more reading, to see what the groupthink has experienced and recommends.

Ironbutt

05-07-12, 09:50

This is off the Merrells. They were brand new, walked around on them for a couple weeks to break them in. This is the result of a 4 mile moderately rocky trail. This is completely unacceptable, and I because I was told that this is normal wear and tear, I absolutely will not touch another of their products.

Can you imagine if someone went to afghanistan with these things? They would be in serious trouble very fast.

http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz342/jmoney05txst/photo-10.jpg

http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz342/jmoney05txst/photo-9.jpg

I bought Kayland Hunter's about a year ago, and they are still in one piece after 100s of miles on trails. I recommend them highly.

Now that sucks! If the Merrells were a cheap boot I'd be inclined to blow it off. I can't beleive that they wouldn't make it right. I have a pair of their Moab Gore-Tex mid heights & they've held up well from some pretty rough use.

I recently bought a pair of the Bates USMC RAT boots for $60 on clearance from LA Police Gear.
http://www.lapolicegear.com/co-bates-29502-usmc-rat.html
They're ugly, but comfortable. I'm still breaking them in & haven't had them out for any rough hiking up on the mountain yet, but they look like they'll hold up. I basically just bought them to beat around in the woods with.

jmoney

05-07-12, 21:57

I am not the only person who has had issues with merrell boots. If you do a quick search you can find some that have failed catastrophically. If they were good back in the day thats great, but obviously something has gone afoul. They offered me a replacement, but I had no desire in getting another pair of boots that I can't use unless I feel like dressing as a hiker inside city limits.

duece71

05-07-12, 22:00

I just pulled the trigger on a pair of Scarpa Kailash boots and can't wait to try them out. I got them from Amazon for $100.

EzGoingKev

05-07-12, 22:02

I just pulled the trigger on a pair of Scarpa Kailash boots and can't wait to try them out. I got them from Amazon for $100.
I picked up a pair of these a year ago and have been very happy with them.

duece71

05-07-12, 22:09

I picked up a pair of these a year ago and have been very happy with them.

Do they run slightly narrow? Do you use any kind of ortho insoles for them? Glad to hear they have worked well for you. I am going ot have to convince the wifey to go hiking at a local Ohio spot to try them out. Nothing like the Rockies or Appalachians mind you.

EzGoingKev

05-07-12, 22:14

They fit differently than any other boot I had worn. For me they fit tight in the middle of my foot but have room in the heel and toe.

I liked the insoles that came in them the best. I tried some others and did not like them, I find one brand/type of insole can work great in one pair of boots/shoes but suck in another pair.

duece71

05-07-12, 22:24

Kev,
Ok, thanks for the info. I'll have to wait and check them out when they arrive. I usually go with a D width in footwear so I shall see.........

Lone_Ranger

05-11-12, 14:08

I'm not a professional mountaineer by any means, but my thoughts on the Zephyrs are that they are more towards a "sneaker" in terms of support vs a full-blown mountain boot. They are super comfortable, but I think the amount of weight that you can carry with them will depend completely on how strong your feet, ankles, and joints are.

Personally, I narrowed my search for a boot and tried on the Zephyrs and the Asolo Fugitives at REI and tested how it felt going from 0 to sprint. While support for backpacking loads was a consideration, I was more concerned with the flexibility of the boot and the ability to run with it. The Zephyrs gave the flexibility that you would expect from a sneaker (meaning a less "clunky" sprint) than the Fugitives, BUT I felt just fine sprinting in the Fugitives and figured they would only get better with some breaking in. The Fugitives did have the edge in the support category though.

I can't speak to the qualities or long term characteristics of the Zephyrs since I went with the Fugitives. But after some real use with them, I think I absolutely made the right decision! I've hiked with them out in Wyoming as well as used them in a two day handgun class in the middle of a downpour. Plenty of support and comfort while hiking (although without a heavy load) and kept my feet dry when I was in a downpour and 3" of water at the class. Also, even with the Gore-Tex lining, my feet really don't sweat much in hotter weather, surprisingly.

It really depends on what your uses are going to be with them and how much weight you think your lower extremities can handle. If this will only be a range/class boot, I would say that the Zephyrs would be my choice (I would go with the GTX model too btw). If this is a "do all" boot (classes + hiking), I would go with the Fugitives. But that's just me.

Hope that helps some.

Thanks for the review. I do some light backpacking, once a week, and the books would be for that, and also range work. I've had Asolo boots, in the past. I don't know what model, but they would be perfect now, for this use.

I am thinking the Zephyr, may be a good choice for work. I see the 6" GTX comes, in black. I may get a pair for work, and try them backpacking. The black ones, don't seem to be all black. The frame around the bottom of the foot, seems to be dark gray. If work doesn't have a problem with it....

(I agree with you, that the trend is toward a 'sneaker" type boot. Which is great, but, like performance tires, they tend to wear out quicker. Price, then becomes an issue. $100 isn't bad, but $200 Oakley SI boots, aren't so great, when you have to replace them every year. Or if they fail on you in the field, and you don't have a spare pair.)

How does the Zephyr compare, to say the Rocky S2V?

That's the boot I'm currently using. They perform the job well enough. I'm not completely happy with them, considering the price. On the one boot, the padded lining, is pulling away from the inside, in the area where the shaft meets the boot, at the back of the ankle (Achilles tendon). The sole is puling away from the boot, in a small area, where it wasn't glued properly. I'm also, not crazy about the tongue. It has the nice comfy padding, with cordura stitched to the outside to prevent wear. It's only stitched together in spots. (Not a goof, they mean to do it that way) The boots haven't seen that much wear. It wouldn't bee bad if they were $100, but for $180 you'd think they could take 30 seconds and stitch the padded part of the tongue, and the protective layer together, and make them one piece.

F-Trooper05

05-12-12, 21:18

jmoney

05-15-12, 09:10

I agree, I diligently spread the word that merrells are absolute garbage, regardless of how well they used to be made.

Go with kayland. I see how a lot of boots around here need replacing after just a year. Mine are still holding strong, are crazy waterproof and work just as well in the summer as winter. The traction on these things is fantastic.

I am going to put them through some really hard use over the next two months, but I have no doubt they will be just fine.

MrTips

05-15-12, 10:21

dirt_diver

05-15-12, 13:40

Jmoney
Maybe a call to Vibram would be in order, seeing that it was their product that shit the bed.

dirt_diver

05-15-12, 13:44

Just a heads up: REI's anniversary sale starts this Friday [5/18]. The Asolo Fugitives are marked down to $159. Superfeet insoles are 20% off. Pricing should be good until 5/28. Decent deals if anyone is looking to make some upgrades.

And if anyone misses out on this, Sierra Trading Post has Asolo as well for about the same price. I was more than pleased with my experience there.

jklaughrey

05-15-12, 19:17

Use Spadout.com it will give you a listing of most online retailers and prices they charge for the item you seek. Think of it as Google for gear.

Sent from my SPH-M920 using Tapatalk 2

Lone_Ranger

05-28-12, 09:52

Pretty much all Haix all the time for me. Picked up a pair at SHOT 2009 at the recommendation of a coworker and liked them enough that I ordered another 2 pairs in January. The Airpower P6 High, Airpower P9 Desert and GSG9-S are what I wear 95% of the time.

One thing I like about them is the extended wear program. For $75 they resole, clean, restitch, replace hardware/insoles and relace the boots and ship 'em back. Beats dropping another $200 on a pair of boots.

I went with a pair of Haix Airpower P3's to replace my Oakley SI boots, that are falling apart, after a year. I have to say, after wearing them for two days, I'm impressed, and happy I made the switch. I may get a pair of insulated P7's, for winter wear. (A friend of mine actually picked them up for me. He was at National Police Week, and Haix had their "Bootmobile" there, are were offering very decent prices. They give a discount to people attending a Calibre Press Street Survival Seminar, as well)

Still debating on a hiking boot, to replace/compliment my Rockey S2V's. Was going to pull the trigger on Lowa Zephyr, but having trouble finding my size in stock, anywhere. They all seem to be on back order for some reason...

Wake27

05-28-12, 10:47

I went with a pair of Haix Airpower P3's to replace my Oakley SI boots, that are falling apart, after a year. I have to say, after wearing them for two days, I'm impressed, and happy I made the switch. I may get a pair of insulated P7's, for winter wear. (A friend of mine actually picked them up for me. He was at National Police Week, and Haix had their "Bootmobile" there, are were offering very decent prices. They give a discount to people attending a Calibre Press Street Survival Seminar, as well)

Still debating on a hiking boot, to replace/compliment my Rockey S2V's. Was going to pull the trigger on Lowa Zephyr, but having trouble finding my size in stock, anywhere. They all seem to be on back order for some reason...

I just got a pair of the GTX Zephyr's to take over as primary from my S2V's. I've been trying to find my size for months. I just wish I could get the mid's instead of the hi's but oh well, I'm excited nonetheless. I wish their laces were longer though. I'll have to change them, but I'm not sure what other laces to use.

Lone_Ranger

05-28-12, 19:16

I just got a pair of the GTX Zephyr's to take over as primary from my S2V's. I've been trying to find my size for months. I just wish I could get the mid's instead of the hi's but oh well, I'm excited nonetheless. I wish their laces were longer though. I'll have to change them, but I'm not sure what other laces to use.

Have you had a chance to try them on? Do they run a half size small? Reading the reviews, every third or fourth review says they run small. But, the others reviews say, true to size.

Wake27

05-28-12, 19:43

Have you had a chance to try them on? Do they run a half size small? Reading the reviews, every third or fourth review says they run small. But, the others reviews say, true to size.

Yeah, I wore them around a little bit and mine definitely seem to be true to size.

JW5219

05-30-12, 09:24

Do they run a half size small? Reading the reviews, every third or fourth review says they run small. But, the others reviews say, true to size.

With the Zephyr GTX mids I purchased a few months ago, I found that I had to buy 1/2 size larger than normal. Usually I wear 9 1/2 but had to get the size 10 and they fit great. Awsome boots! ymmv

og556

05-30-12, 10:02

I had a pair of Zephyr GTX mids I bought through REI a while ago. I loved these boots. They felt more like sneakers but had good ankle support and I wore them daily for a couple of months.

I did a few short hikes in them as well averaging about 6-8 miles with a small camelback.

Unfortunately the treads on the outsoles of the boots started to get chewed up during these two months. I have never had boots with treads get chewed up so fast.

I might get another pair of the non gore tex eventually to see if my situation was just a fluke.

Out of all the boots I have ever owned these were the most comfortable for me. I have relatively wider feet too which is weird because these allegedly ran narrow. I have to wear wides in Danner boots and most all shoes.

docsherm

05-30-12, 10:53

I agree, I diligently spread the word that merrells are absolute garbage, regardless of how well they used to be made.

I have 5 pairs of Merrells, 2 have spent over 25 months in Afghanistan and are still going strong. I have 2 other light pairs that have over 36 months in Africa and are still good. Very hard use and they are GTG.

Merrell has some of teh best CS around. One of the guys on my team had the sole come off the boot in one spot and Merrell sent him a new pair and a gift card for another pair.

Have any of you that have had issues with Merrell contacted them with these issues?

EzGoingKev

05-30-12, 19:10

Merrell has some of teh best CS around. One of the guys on my team had the sole come off the boot in one spot and Merrell sent him a new pair and a gift card for another pair.

Both mine and my friend's wore out inside behind where you heel is. He contacted Merrell and they gave him some BS about they have never had that happen and sent him out a new pair with instructions to send the others back so they could inspect them.

He is happy. I am not going to contact them, I am just not going to buy any more Merrell footwear.

If it was just me I would say ehh and blow it off. But there are a bunch of people on another forum that have issues with theirs too. There are better choices out there.

F-Trooper05

05-30-12, 21:11

I have 5 pairs of Merrells, 2 have spent over 25 months in Afghanistan and are still going strong. I have 2 other light pairs that have over 36 months in Africa and are still good. Very hard use and they are GTG.

Merrell has some of teh best CS around. One of the guys on my team had the sole come off the boot in one spot and Merrell sent him a new pair and a gift card for another pair.

Have any of you that have had issues with Merrell contacted them with these issues?

I'll agree with you on Merrell's CS. My buddy once complained that a pair of his boots were hurting his feet so bad that he could barley use them, and they offered to replace them with anything he wanted free of charge. So props for that. Still, my expirience with their product is terrible. Everything I've ever seen of theirs (including my Chamelons) has sucked in terms of quality. Especially when you hold them side by side with anything made by Asolo, Salomon, LaSportiva, etc.

DeltaSierra

05-30-12, 21:37

What are folks choice for training, range, everyday use. I have seen so many different kinds in folks pictures that I thought I would see what folks are using. Post pics and brief description/review if you don't mind.

danner temperate "rat" boots.

most expensive boots i've ever bought, but, well worth the price.

MFWIC2

05-30-12, 21:42

Has anybody tried the new Danner Mellee boots?
Was thinking of getting a pair.

Dirk Williams

05-31-12, 15:21

Wanted to thank you all for the very informative boot info. I orderd a pair of Asolo Echo's this morning ,from Sierra on sale for like 101.00 plus shipping.

DW

Shokr21

05-31-12, 16:35

I wore Oakley assault 6" boots for 3 months of mobilization and 9months overseas. The last month they limped their way into the dumspter.

I have since bought a pair of Oakley LSA Terrains. Very lightweight and comfortable.

It's a tossup between the LSA's and the Nike boots I have, but the LSA's were half the price @ $65.

JBecker 72

05-31-12, 16:54

I just bought a pair of Bates zero mass 8" boots and I like them so far. Although I have only gone on 2 hikes with them. Was disappointed to see they are made in China though.

EzGoingKev

05-31-12, 18:12

Wanted to thank you all for the very informative boot info. I orderd a pair of Asolo Echo's this morning ,from Sierra on sale for like 101.00 plus shipping.

DW
IMO if you really want to try them on to get the right size before buying them. I found the Asolos ran a little small and narrow compared to other types of boots.

Might be just me though.

Dirk Williams

05-31-12, 18:54

I did stop at the one shoe store here that still uses the Brannock device before shoe sales.

Glad I did, since I got my fake hip, I pretty much wear Crocs 24-7. My feet had gotten wider apparently because of the Crocs.

Sierra Trading post had only two sets left in my size, I got the wide as my last set of Asolo's were always tight width wise on my feet

Also looking at another set of boots, not sure what I want yet. Won't make any choices before I wear these Asolo's for a month or two.

Well be in Wyoming 2nd week of July backpacking/hiking. Plan on using these for that trip.

Kinda thinking about the Meindl's, for the 2nd set.

Thank you for the solid advice.
DW

rero360

05-31-12, 19:06

I'm on my 2nd pair of the Oakley assault boots, the first pair I got early April of '07 and finally retired them last summer. My second pair is going strong even after close to a year working in various machine shops, steel chips destroy foot wear. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised that my boots survived the motorcycle accident I found myself in last week, a woman hit me with her car when I was on my way home on the bike, my right ankle is swollen and unable to bear any weight so far, but the boot lives on, unlike the bike.

Now I just need a new pair of M frames as mine didn't survive the crash, saved my face so I'm happy.

Delta One

06-03-12, 12:36

Everyday Work: Danner Acadia

Every other kind of application: Oakley SI boots (tan)

I had the Oakleys in black also before the Danners and after 6 months of everyday use they started falling apart. The Tan ones however are made in the USA and have held up comfortably for 2 years.

The next boot I'll get will probably be the Oakley LSA to give that a try as it is shineable in black and looks super comfortable. And the price is so right.

Lone_Ranger

06-03-12, 13:50

Oakley SI's worked well enough, but they did not hold up well. After a year the interior lining was falling out in pieces.

I would have been very upset, had I paid full MSRP $185, but I got them through their Military/Sales, for a little over $100. At that price, they aren't bad.

After wearing the Haix Airpower P3, I won't go back to Oakley. They have more support, more room in the toe box, and way easier to get off.

og556

06-03-12, 19:37

I didn't want to start a new thread about this so I figured I'd ask here.

Have any of you used or had issued Danner RAT (rugged all terrain) Hot boots ?

Where I hike it's usually humid so I am in search of the most durable non gore tex boots I can find. Usually I hike a mixture of rocky and grassy terrain. There are also a lot of hills and I usually have a 30LBS pack.

My only hesitation is that I want boots that are not super heavy and breathe well but can go to hell and back. I also like the idea they are recraftable.

EzGoingKev

06-03-12, 19:55

The older Danner stuff I have seen has been heavy and stiff. Not bashing them, it just is what it is. Very durable.

Is the new stuff lighter and more flexible?

docsherm

06-04-12, 08:27

I'll agree with you on Merrell's CS. My buddy once complained that a pair of his boots were hurting his feet so bad that he could barley use them, and they offered to replace them with anything he wanted free of charge. So props for that. Still, my expirience with their product is terrible. Everything I've ever seen of theirs (including my Chamelons) has sucked in terms of quality. Especially when you hold them side by side with anything made by Asolo, Salomon, LaSportiva, etc.

I have used most of the boots you have mentioned and I am still using Merrell. I have never had any problems and I think that their CS is the best around. It also might help that they have a SOF pro-deal that gives a CRAZY discount. ;) Either way I will still use them.

My everyday work boots are the new Nike Combat boots. So far so good. They are very light and very comfortable. I just want to see how well they last.

Dirk Williams

06-07-12, 10:54

VooDoo6Actual

06-07-12, 12:22

Our Asolo boots arrived earlier this week. They really are very comfortable an kinda lite. I don't remember my last set being anywhere near this comfortable, but that was 8 years ago and they were tight on my feet.

Thanks to all for an informative thread.

DW

Good deal.
I have a couple of Asolo model Boots & your right they are an excellent boot.
Salamon, Meindl, Lowa, Garmont, Danner et al all good kit as well from my experiences.

Dirk Williams

06-07-12, 15:33

HOP, I read and re-read the boots link multiple times, since I was already in the market for boots. Your post/links were very helpful.

After researching pretty much everything suggested up on this thread I opted for the Asolo's Echo's. They were on sale at Sierra and got them for a little of 100.00.

I'll be making another boot purchase in a month or two as I think Im wanting a pair of Meindl or La Sportiva's for the collection.

Anyway Im pleased and would not have thought of this selected series of boots without input from you all.

DW

VooDoo6Actual

06-07-12, 15:51

Dirk,
Yep no worries that's the intended spirit is to share experiences/data/beliefs. Glad you could glean some useful info. Unfortunately it's gets derailed at times in /during that process. Things are FUBAR as you & I both know so I guess we have to sift through all this despite conflicts & trolls ;-/. Lots of good suggestions here from many people.

I was rolling w/ Asolo Moran GTX & Flames. Excellent for me and my needs. Used the Flames all day last saturday shooting from 100-600 yes in the heat. It was hot where I was 105 F & I had zero hot spots all day comfort etc. Then took them Hiking on Tues. from about 6,500 Ft to 10,500 ft on a 6 mi RT hike to a really nice cluster of 3 lakes. Again all day comfort even when hauling ass down the trail on the way down.

I was looking at La Sportiva Pamir Boots & I really liked the Garmont Vetta models. Pamir are probably too heavy but nonetheless an excellent constructed boot. I'm a large dude so I tend to go through my wheels fast.

Sounds like you understand & know your needs well. I have read your knowledgeable posts & gear you selected in other posts etc. You are switched on & get it no doubt.

stay safe

namaste, Deus Vut, coram deo

trappernanabg19

06-07-12, 16:09

Danners all the way. My feet refuse to wear anything else.

ra2bach

06-08-12, 00:14

if you got reeeelly big or reeeelly small feets, The Break Room just announced a 3 day sale on Danner boots. as in $79 for the USMC RAT Hot. or $75 for the GTX Combat Hiker. these are normally $250-300 boots...

a0cake

06-08-12, 00:49

I've used and abused all the major players - Asolo, Scarpa, Kayland, Lowa, Danner, La Sportive, Vasque, and a few others. I've also had the pleasure, and occasionally the displeasure, of wearing most of these boots in Iraq and Afghanistan (most of the displeasure was due to a pair of Vasques that came apart on a mountain top...stay away from this Chinese garbage).

Obviously there are a wide range of model types available, from light-hiking to full on mountaineering boots. Clearly, no matter which brand you go with, it's important to select a model that fits your needs. Too little boot can be just as bad as too much boot. Without getting into details about specific models in specific classes of boot, I'll just give some general observations on some of the popular examples.

Asolo: In general, very little break-in is required. They are comfortable from the get-go. Unfortunately, they don't last under actual hard use in terrain with jagged rocks. The soles separate rather quickly, and the seams in the goretex tend to start allowing water to penetrate in a month or two of use. The rubber in their proprietary soles is extremely soft and will go slick on you QUICKLY. The upside is that because they are soft, the soles are extremely grippy (while there's still tread). They also tend to squeak a lot less on indoor surfaces compared to harder soles. But due to the soles going slick so fast, I would start busting my ass when traversing wet Afghan rocks within 2 months time, which became the interval at which I'd generally have to exchange them for a new pair. Thankfully, they were plentiful. Models used - FSN-95 FTX, Fugitive, and Flame. The same general observations remain true for all these models, although there are differences in weight, support, and feel among them. For a better alternative to this style of boot, see the Lowa recommendation at the bottom of this post.

Scarpa - IMO the best boots you can buy for most uses (one exception to this is for a light boot, which the Lowa Zephyr does best). I've used the SLM3's, the Liskamms, and the Kailashes. The SLM3's are the best all around "heavy-load" boot you can get. Just keep in mind that they are not Gortex and will need to be waterproofed in a traditional way. But once waxed, the high quality leather does not allow water to penetrate. They will also not stay soggy for days on end like a Goretex boot will. They are absolutely bomb proof, and you will NOT roll an ankle with them on. They are extremely stiff and require a long break in. They are also heavy, but this is necessary for the amount of support they provide, which is absolutely vital if you're carrying 75+ pounds of gear. They might feel like blocks at first, but you will be thankful to have them when walking up and down mountains with a heavy ruck on. The tread on the vibram soles is aggressive, hard, and will last a LONG time. The downside is that they can be a little slippery when it rains, but this is a trade off for increased longevity. They also squeak a little bit indoors. These are not good boots for a LEO or a casual hiker, and are definitely overkill unless you're carrying a pack up and down mountains. But if this is you - accept no substitute. Also, Scarpas run narrow, so if you have wide feet be sure to adjust accordingly

Disclaimer on the Scarpa SLM3's, the leather turns PINK when they get scuffed up and there's nothing you can do about it. So if for some reason that's important to you, you might want to go with a synthetic boot. Here's what they look like after a while, although the picture doesn't represent the color fully:

http://i.imgur.com/wdjev.jpg

If anyone has questions about specific boots from these manufacturers let me know and I'll give a run-down on them if I've had them.

ETA: Additional general recommendations for boots based on usage -

Light-hiking, less than 50 pounds of gear - Lowa Zephyr GTX MID. These are what Asolo FSN's, Flames, and Fugitives are supposed to be. Same concepts apply, these just do it better. Good for fast movement, urban terrain, and open terrain use when the load is light. http://www.rei.com/product/780835/lowa-zephyr-gtx-mid-hiking-boots-mens

Heavy-Hiking / Light Mountaineering, 75+ pounds of gear - Scarpa SLM3, see above. http://www.backcountry.com/scarpa-sl-m3-boots-mens

Mountaineering / Glacier / Snow / Winter - Scarpa Liskamm GTX. These are super heavy, but your feet, back, and knees, will thank your burning leg muscles in the conditions they were designed for. http://www.scarpa.com/scarpa/products/p_88003G

M4Fundi

06-08-12, 01:34

a0cake

06-08-12, 01:47

aOcake,
What kind of feet do you have?
Wide, short, long, thin, low volume, Fred Flintstone??

Just curious to know if your feet will apply to which type of feet we have.

For example I have size 10.5 to 11 and they are medium-wide up front and narrow in the heel with medium high arches (did have high arches but they seem to have dropped abit;)) and LOW VOLUME.

LaSportiva and Kayland are gifts from the God's for my foot dimensions. I would like to try some Scarpas some time as I know they are excellent boots but was under the impression they fit med-wide higher volume feet.

Yeah, that's an important question to ask and I should have talked about it. My feet are average in all respects, so I'm fortunate in that most boots will fit me fine.

From what I know, Scarpas have traditionally been an all or nothing fit for most people, but they (Scarpa) say that's no longer the case. They have a reputation for being narrow, and I still think that's true despite Scarpa saying they've adjusted that out of their products in the last few years.

I really don't want to wager a guess on if they'll fit you or not; you'll probably just have to try them on. From what I remember of Kayland, they fit similarly to Scarpa in the same size. I'm not sure about the La Sportivas in comparison.

What makes buying Scarpa boots so difficult is that there is generally a serious break-in required, especially with the leather SLM3's. They're overly stiff in the beginning so that they don't go limp over time like Asolos do, which causes a lot of people to claim they're not comfortable. When they level out, they're quite comfortable, but don't be surprised if they feel a little ridiculous in the beginning. There's also a 3/4 length steel shank in the sole, so they don't flex, which will never go away. So keep that in mind. It tends to make you strike with your heel on flat ground, with the upside being that you can stick the tiniest little portion of the toe of the boot into a crack and leverage your entire body up without stressing and possibly breaking your foot. But again, I think you'll really just have to try to find a place that stocks them.

a0cake

06-08-12, 01:54

Also, for comparison purposes: I wear a Euro Size 43.5 in Scarpa and a 10 in US Asolo's. Scarpa does base sizes, then 1/3 as well as a 1/2. So there's 3 ranges in each size instead of 2. So for example:

43 = 10
43.5 = 10 1/3
44 = 10.5

Since there are so many options, there's really no substitute for trying them on.

EzGoingKev

06-08-12, 05:01

Ironman8

06-08-12, 07:10

EzGoingKev

06-08-12, 07:24

I forgot, I find the Kailash's soles to be somewhat slippery when wet also. This is something that really surprised me as I never got it with any of the other boots I have worn.

a0cake

06-08-12, 10:04

That's interesting the description you gave for the Asolo's, a0cake. I have a pair of Fugitives, and would say that their soles are actually more on the hard side and I've also experienced the sole being quite slippery when on wet surfaces.... I've tried on the Lowa Zephyrs (which I happen to think are about the most comfortable boot I've ever tried on) and the Fugitives side by side and felt the Zephyrs were much softer and "sneaker-like" while the Fugitives gave a little more support with a harder sole. I ended up with the Fugitives (since I already have a "sneaker-type" boot), but I would be willing to bet that a pair of Zephyrs are in my future somewhere ;)

While I have put some decent miles on them with some light hiking and walking and class use, I really can't comment yet on how the Goretex and soles hold up after continuous, hard use. I do know that they've served me well so far, while being very comfortable. A few months ago, I attended a Kyle Defoor class where it rained the entire time, downpoured really, and my feet stayed dry the whole weekend. Gotta love good gear!

I've heard mixed reviews on the GTX in the Zephyrs...what's your experience? How have they held up?

Not sure why it seems like the soles are hard rubber. What is that in comparison to? They're definitely softer than most Vibram brand soles on other common boots in that class. If you're using them in classes on dirt and rocks, I'm guessing even the softish Asolo rubber will last a long time. Concrete and road surfaces are the real killer, so unless you have to walk on the road I bet they'll last a reasonably long time.

As far as the Lowas, I never had a problem with the Goretex leaking but I'm sure it's happened. I guess it's hit and mass for most brands whether they start leaking or not. I had some Asolos that never did, but most of them started to let water in when the seams in the Goretex came apart.

duece71

06-08-12, 11:14

I have a pair of Scarpa Kailash's I purchased a couple of years ago and out of the box they are the most comfortable boot I have ever worn.

I found they run narrow in the middle of the foot but I still have room in the toe area.

Sizewise I am about a 9 1/4. 99% of the nines are too small while the 9.5's are a little big but that is what I end up with. Here is what I have found -
Danner -> 9.5
Merrell -> 9.5
Asolo -> 9M
Scarpa -> 9.5

I haven't done anything crazy with them, everyday winter wear one year and some light hiking. I would buy another pair.

For some more info there are some good footwear write ups over on Millitary Times.

Agreed, in the toe area for me. I took them on a light hike with the family and they were very comfortable. I was humping my son (25 lbs) in kid carrier on my back for the hike and the Scarpa Kailashes felt very stable. I would buy another pair. I have recently purchased a pair of Solomon Discovery GTX boots as a back up and am eager to try those in comparison.

john85D

08-24-12, 23:45

I was just wondering iif any of you guys have any experience with the FiveTen Desert Enforcer boot? Their soles are the most tacky that I have tried and was just curious if any one has tried them. Thanks.

run n gun

08-25-12, 10:42

I've had really good luck with my Rocky Sv2's. I got them while I was deployed (OEF 10-11) in Kandahar. They got worn every day on quite a few dismounted patrols and I was pleasantly surprised at how light they were as I was expecting them to weigh like the issued boots. Unfortunately even though they were great boots, I've noticed the inner lining coming away that someone else mentioned and, they seem to have a hell of a time burning through shoe laces (despite my 550 cord job). Even so, I'm looking into having them repaired instead of replacing them. I did get a pair of the C4 trainers to supplant them but they're definitely "around the office, just chillin" kind of boots. Definitely not for fast roping!

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/DerrFu/082512103204.jpg

also this is my first post.

Michael2007

09-16-12, 06:44

I've been rocking the under armour speed freeks at work in a corrections setting. They're miles above the 5.11 atacs I used to wear. Going in 3 months now and theyre holding up great.

currahee

10-21-12, 14:52

Awesome thread, gave me lots more to look at. I haven't found the perfect answer but I've seen some brands I need to look at.

History & Use

My most favorite boots ever were a $50 hi-tec light hiker that Academy carried years ago, naturally they went the way of everything I like.

I tried Merrells and Keens. The keens I have had the sole wrap around the side in sawtooth like points and they come unglued. I still actually have them and wear them casually... I just have to apply some superglue- they have lasted because they don't see "the field."

I have had good luck with MOAB ventilators... until now. Typically I use a pair as casual around town boots, to work etc... and do some rucking in the neighbor-hood. They look good for about a year and then the become my "training boots," and I buy another pair. They get the laces replaced with 550 then get the brunt of range wear, rucking and 10-15 mile jaunts through the woods (low rolling hills at worst) and what I would wear come SHTF. After about a year of training/field use they are mostly done. I have been through this cycle three times but the pare that just got switched to field use went through one hike last weekend and the soles are already separating. They also gave me some BRUTAL blisters, and I never blister bad.

Luckily I hadn't bought the replacement "dress boots" yet and am looking for another brand/version similar to work into the mix.

My options are cheap $50-$80 from Academy or Dicks (the only "high end" brands they carry are the Keens and Merrels.) If a boot is only gonna last me a year I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend money on one of the cool guy brands.

But I'm also looking at a slightly higher end in the same style, which would have to be ordered.

I'm liking the looks of the Salomon 3D Fastpacker Mid GTX and the Danner Radical 452 GTX. Both are a little more expensive than the Merrells but I'm fine with that if they will last 2-3 years of what I consider light use for a hiker. Does anyone have any recent experience with these two boots in particular?

Aries144

10-21-12, 15:33

I've used the old black gtx Bellville ICBs and liked them for work and cold weather boots, but hated them after taking them backpacking. My feet sweat a lot and my feet stayed soaked, even with powder and frequent sock changing. They are also fairly heavy, though not as heavy as the Danners I've tried.

I've since switched to OTB Desertlites and have found them to be ideal for backpacking and training. They are very light, feature good arch support, and breath very well. The soles are a softer rubber and the boots can't be resoled. I don't think these would work for long over a lot of rocks or pavement, but on dirt and in the muck they should be fine.

Larry Vickers just made a post about assault boots for training on his "Ask Larry" subforum, in case anyone missed it. Never heard of the boots he mentioned, but have been impressed with Bellville's quality. A pair of Bellville ICBs that I mentioned above saw me through the post Katrina mess, including a lot of clambering around debris and several months of use as construction boots after that. Despite being slashed by nails and ragged sheet metal and exposed to tar and various chemicals that took the black finish completely off (they're grey now) they're still usable.

bigkracka

10-25-12, 19:19

OTB Bushmasters are the best boots I've ever had period. Oakleys were the worst piece of trash I've ever wasted money on, outstanding eyewear shitty footwear. Had a pair of Danners and didn't care for them.

Warp

10-25-12, 20:28

After multiple 5.11 tactical boots, including their top of the line HRT (and an ATAC pair I wore out very quickly), what I REALLY like is my Danner Acadias.

soulezoo

10-26-12, 09:08

The last 12 years or so being issued with Bellevilles or Bates of different styles both desert and regular and having no real issues, but not exactly raving about them either. So...

With input from this thread and a pair of new boots required and finally willing to pay for a better pair myself, I went to REI, Cabelas (for Meindls), Patagonia and a couple local places to try on every boot I could.

My problem is a high instep/high arch and left foot little toe that doesn't behave.

All the Asolos I tried were oh, so close and no cigar for the toe space. Like an earlier poster mentioned about the angle of the toe box on the outside coming in just a little too sharply on the angle. So, on I went, Keens, Vasques, Patagonias, LaSportiva etc, etc. :sad:

Finally got down to Salomon quest 4D and Lowa Renegades. The Lowas were another that was just a little tight in mediums and just a little wide in the wides. The Salomon's fit very well.

I tried every style of superfeet as well with no success. The Salomon's had the best insole of any of the boots and were better, for me, than the superfeet even. It's a good thing I have my own custom orthotics!

The moral is, a lot of these boots are very close in fit; everyone's feet are different, it pays to walk around in them first. The most expensive boot is no good it the fit isn't there.

And damn I wanted those Asolo flames! I am very, very pleased with the Salomons though.

This thread is a little old, but so much pertinent info it deserves to stay up.

Thanks battledrill for your input!

wild_wild_wes

11-18-12, 17:37

How "waterproof" are the Merrel Moab Ventilators? Enough for medium rain and the occasional puddle?

EzGoingKev

11-18-12, 17:38

It is a moot point because they do not hold up.

Do yourself a favor and buy something other than Merrels.

wild_wild_wes

11-18-12, 17:50

Really? I've had a set of regular low Ventilators for a few months now and no problems, though I haven't been very demanding of them; for heavier use I have Asolo FSN85s. Yesterday though I wore the Merrells out in the rain, and it felt like my toes got wet through the mesh. Would you recommend the Asolo 95gtx then?

I got the Moabs because last summer I wore my Asolos to hike the John Muir and Mist Trail in Yosemite and climbed Half Dome, and felt like a lighter boot would have done the job just as well.

HES

11-18-12, 18:22

Gotta agree. My Moab ventilators have been holding up danged good. They are the only shoes that my son can't destroy.

Amur

11-19-12, 09:00

FYI....Salomon Quest 4D GTX boots are on sale at REI for 169.99 down from 229.00.

That is an awesome deal and these rarely go on sale. I just ordered a pair to go with my 3D XA pros....

gigag04

11-19-12, 11:53

I've killed multiple pairs of 5.11s at work in relatively short time. I like Danners but find them too narrow for my EE feet.

I've been a huge fan of Red Wings. For non-duty use, I would recommend something from their hiking line.

duece71

11-19-12, 12:22

FYI....Salomon Quest 4D GTX boots are on sale at REI for 169.99 down from 229.00.

That is an awesome deal and these rarely go on sale. I just ordered a pair to go with my 3D XA pros....

This is a great deal, I wish this price was on when I bought my Salomon Discovery GTXs. I like the Salomons, I have a pair of 3D XA Pros, very nice.

jknopp44

11-19-12, 14:52

FYI....Salomon Quest 4D GTX boots are on sale at REI for 169.99 down from 229.00.

That is an awesome deal and these rarely go on sale. I just ordered a pair to go with my 3D XA pros....

Just ordered a pair from REI as well. I received a $20 dollar coupon in the mail which brought price down to 149.99!!! Great pair of boots! Sierra Trading post still has Asolo in stock as well, which is another great brand.

EzGoingKev

11-19-12, 16:51

Would you recommend the Asolo 95gtx then?

I do not own a pair of Asolo's so I could not comment on them.

I do have a pair of Scarpa Kailash's though and have been more than pleased with them.

whick1

11-20-12, 07:15

After reading LAVs comments the other day on his forum I gave the Tactical Research Kiowa boots by Belleville a chance. I found them online for $65 free shipping which I jumped on because everyone else has them for over $100. I have been wearing them for close to a month now and love them. They are by far the most comfortable boots I have ever worn. I wear a 12 Wide in shoes and ordered the same size and they are a perfect fit. I have tried several boots thru the years during my time in the military and now. I have worn Danners, UA, Oakley, Converse, etc. and these TR boots are the most comfortable I have worn. They are holding up great but I only time will tell on that end but for $65 if they last a year they are well worth the $$$ especially considering how comfortable they are.

Wake27

11-20-12, 07:24

I still love my Rocky S2V's and my Lowa Zephyr GTX's. The Rocky's have lots of ankle support (which I don't need but oh well) and are impressively quick to dry for all the material they have. They are a bit on the heavy side, but no where near as clunky as issue boots, I think because of the way the sole is designed. The Zephyr's have really grown on me. They were the only pair of boots to ever give me blisters, but I think that was more because I had them uncomfortably tight at first. Now I love them. Very lightweight and fully waterproof. Once you get water inside however, they're gonna take a good long time to dry. It took mine about 5-7 days in summer weather at Ft. Lewis, WA.

For comparison, I've worn the two mentioned above plus Army issue boots and Blackhawk Warrior Wear Desert Ops boots.

Mariley85

11-20-12, 10:19

Red Wings 595!

14192

Warp

05-17-13, 22:05

Old thread, kinda, I know, but there is so much information in here. I just read the whole thing (again).

I just ordered a pair of Asolo Fugitive GTX as a result.

Special thanks to BattleDrill3 for all of his posts, even though they seem to have been a few years ago. Here are the two main ones again, just in case somebody jumps to the end that would otherwise miss these:

I'm disappointed there aren't more replies to this one; quite simply, if you play with guns for a living (and do more with them than clear them in the clearing barrel at the DFAC), and don't live in a Bradley, boots are the most important piece of kit you can own.

Unfortunately, there is surprisingly little information out there in the ranks of the military in particular, with stubborn NCO's unwilling to admit a lack of knowledge or to try new things. Boot knowledge is gained solely from long (often alpine) expeditions, not just from growing up in the woods.

Six years as an airborne infantryman in Alaska, various military schools and selection courses, plus time in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Alps, the Dolomites, the Rockies, the Hindu Kush, and the Himalayas have taught me the following with regards to boots: 1)there is no single right answer, and you will spend a lot of money to find out what works for you. 2)You get what you pay for. 3)What works for someone else will not necessarily work for you. 4)If a company has been making sunglasses or athletic shoes, and suddenly starts making boots when a war starts...maybe not the best place to look. 5)Italians, Germans, and Norwegians know their shit. American isn't always best.

So crack open a beer, boys. This is gonna be a long one. This is for all the 11B's, 18 series, fellas on the teams, and anyone else who sees real trigger time who didn't want to ask questions for fear of looking uninformed. (That shouldn't be the environment in a cohesive unit, but another post for another time.) And I apologize if it seems like I'm insulting your intelligence at times. I just want to be sure everyone's on the same page.

First: socks, socks, socks. Socks rubbing against your feet cause blisters, not the boots themselves. Socks are to boots as mags are to weapons. (They are the most important part, as they are where everything starts.) Get good merino wool/bamboo socks. Army-issued green socks are surprisingly decent. You can never go wrong with Smartwool. If your feet tend to sweat like mine, and you realized that wool socks make your feet sweat more, get over it. Better than blisters. Powder your shit. DON'T SPRAY ANTIPERSPIRANT ON YOUR FEET, UNLESS YOU WANT TO SMELL LIKE A DOUCHE, AND HAVE ****ED UP FEET. If you prefer longer socks, look at lightweight Smartwool ski socks. Point 6 is another good company that was recently started by the same people who started Smartwool. Bridgedale is another good option, and very popular. Fox River socks are very decent as well. My vote is with Smartwool.

NOTE: CUT YOUR TOENAILS EVERY FIVE DAYS OR SO. Your will only have to make this mistake once on a deployment to Afghanistan to remember.

Insoles:
If you have normal arches, this is not a huge deal. But remember: you will not be twenty one forever. Take care of your knees now. Carrying the equivalent of a midget on your back for years will flatten out your arches in a surprisingly short time, and lead to knee and back problems. Get arch support NOW to prevent that. (Also, running with Vibram Five Fingers or something similar will strengthen your plantar fascia - the muscles in the middle of your feet - and help prevent this.) I suggest custom insoles from a licensed podiatrist (admittedly expensive), even if you don't have if you have low arches. (UNWEIGHTED impressions of your feet, versus standing on the mold for an impression, are key.)

Superfeet are popular, but my arches are too low for them. If you don't have that problem, go for their custom insoles from a KNOWLEDGEABLE dealer. Just because someone works at an outdoor store and wears a green apron doesn't mean they know anything. Superfeet make black, green, blue, orange, and pink insoles; ask someone who knows what they're doing what the differences are. And forget Dr. Scholls, if just for those idiotic "Are you gellin'?" commercials. Your knees will thank you after you turn twenty five. SOLE insoles are my favorite commercially available insoles. Great arch support, and semi-custom. Pop 'em in the oven (read the ****ing directions), cut 'em to size, throw 'em in the boots, and off you go. They make different thicknesses for different volume shoes. Bring your boots to the store to try the insoles. And bring more than one pair of insoles on a deployment; insoles aren't made of magic. Think a pair a month (at least), particularly if you're going to the 'Stan. Switch them out every day. Just spend the money if you walk around with weight on your back. The muscles in your feet (specifically the plantar fascia) are not strong enough to handle that much weight.

NOTE: Always keep the original insoles that came with your boots, even if you never plan to use them. That way, you can trace the exact outline of those insoles onto your new ones before you cut them. If you trace from other after-market insoles you previously cut yourself, there's a good chance you'll cut wrong and have an unusable insole; $40-$50 down the drain. Some shittier, Dr. Scholls-type insoles have lines on the bottom for each size of feet. Ignore that shit.

Finally, on to boots.
First thing - GET YOUR FEET MEASURED WITH A BRANNOCK DEVICE BY A PROFESSIONAL. The fat drill sergeants at 30th AG who measured your feet don't know dick about fitting boots.

Jungles:
The need for these has been pretty much relegated to members of SOCOM, but still worth noting. OTB makes the lightest jungles on the market, the Jungle Lite's; they're extremely comfortable. Forget any kind of boot with "Panama" soles, or anything else you can buy at Clothing and Sales, for that matter. Lowa Elite Jungle's are comfy, but their sole pattern will quickly fill with mud. Altberg makes the absolute best jungle boot in the world, bar none. Custom made. Like a hiker and a jungle boot combined. Amazing. Go with the Jungle Classic. NOTE: The first thing people tend to do is get the steel or hard plastic shank removed from jungle boots. DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU PLAN TO PUT ON SERIOUS MILES WITH SERIOUS WEIGHT ON YOUR BACK, PARTICULARLY IF YOU HAVE FLAT FEET. This will lead to plantar fasciitis or achilles tendonitis.

Light deserts:
If you're just meandering about the FOB, or doing quick DA's/door kicking, there is no way to go wrong with this one. Issued Belleville's are very decent. Oakley/Converse/etc are all comfortable, but not built for long stretches on the feet carrying a lot of LB's. Look at OTB Desert Lite's. Very light, good construction, but admittedly lack the gear-slut look that the kids go for these days. Garmont T8's are very good as well (my favorite "normal" looking boot). Meindl (not the last time I'll bring them up; quite popular with the ninjas) Safari or Safari Mid's are incredible. (At the Meindl website, look under the "Trekking" category.) Look at Lowa Zephyr's. Very comfortable, but not as solid as their Elite Desert's. The Elite Desert's are somewhat a cross between a light boot and a hiker, and tied with Meindl Safari's as my favorite. (FYI - if you see "GTX" in the name, it means they're Gore-tex, and therefore waterproof and slightly warmer.)

Hikers:
If you find yourself in Western Iraq, you might not need these too often. If you're in the hills up north, or anywhere near the Euphrates where stomping through tilled farmland is very similar to battling scree, that's a different story. (Scree=loose rock at the base and sides of mountains.) It goes without saying you need a couple pairs in Trashcanistan. Understand, however, many of these boots will feel very heavy compared to desert boots. That's unavoidable. You'll get used to it. Desert boots are actually way underbuilt for the kind of weight you'll routinely carry.

Issued Danners are decent. Danner Acadia's are also decent option, but lack significant ankle support, and like any hiking boot, are quite heavy. Asolo is a name you'll hear a lot, and for good reason. Fugitive's and Flame's are amazing. I wore a pear of Fugitives in the Anbar province, throughout Alaska (with thicker socks), and to Mt. Everest (not to the summit) with no problem. Asolo Moran's are quite amazing as well. If you can find a pair of Asolo Echo's, snatch them up. Scour the earth for them. (They have been discontinued by Asolo, for some reason.) They have the support of Fugitive's minus the Gore-tex; much better for warm days on the Pakistan border. FYI - they are the boots de rigueur for Tier One types. If you see muscle-bound men in an airport with Asolo Echo's and a Suunto watch on, they are probably bad mother****ers on their way to go kick random ass somewhere. Don't test that theory by stealing their luggage; it will not end well for you. I wouldn't suggest Merrell's (yes, I know Bear Grylls wears them) for the simply fact that most aren't made to handle serious weight. Keen Targhee II's are ridiculously comfortable, but again, not made for serious weight. Feel free to do quick HVT grabs with these guys on, however. La Sportiva are some of the best. I would suggest the Cascade GTX's for serious grip, but with just enough ankle flex to not make you feel like you're wearing ski boots. Meindl's are champions. Jersey, Kansas, or Colorado models (under the "Trekking" menu) or the MFS or MFS Vakuum line are great. Salomons...what can I say besides the fact that they rock? Quest 4d's (for winter), Explorer GTX, Mission GTX, and for hotter days (but not serious walking) XA Pro 3d Mid's. Probably my favorite brand of the bunch. Kayland Zephyr's or Vertigo's can be seen on many feet of OCF types. Scarpa Kailash's or Nangpa's or popular amongst the SOCOM set as well, and for good reason. Lastly, Zamberlan make some incredible boots as well. Their Tundra GT's are quite popular. In the end, I'd suggest the Asolo Echo's if you can find them, one of the Salomons (although not for super-serious walking with weight), or the Asolo Moran, or La Sportiva Cascade GTX.

For the more serious pursuits (that might involve crampons), Meindl Air Revolutions are money. Asolo Granite GV or Alpinist GV are incredible. La Sportiva Lhotse GTX, Makalu, Karakoram, or Glacier are some of the best boots in the world. These all require fitting at a store, and will be in the $300 to $600 range. I'd say go with the La Sportiva Makalu's or Lhotse. The color of the boots (all mentioned are in the 'tactical' palate) doesn't really matter. You'll be wearing gaiters anyway. And go with Outdoor Research Crocodiles for the gaiters, by the way; best ever made. If it gets really cold, just throw on overboots on top of the boots, under the crampons.

So that's it. A lot of options, I realize, but if you hear the same names over and over again, that probably means they're good. If you don't to be a creepy vet hanging out at the VA hospital barely able to walk at sixty, take the time to get fitted. Buy good insoles. Your knees and back will thank you.

I'd also suggest getting them, once you know your sizes, at REI, either at the store or online. You can return anything, at any time, for any reason. And you get back a percentage of what you spend. Get an REI credit card, and it's even more. Use Continental Airline Miles? Log in to Continental.com, and they'll shoot you over to REI's site. Then you'll get miles for the money you spend, plus the percentage back! Can't beat that shit. And in case you're curious-I'm not getting paid by REI.

PM me if you have more questions.

Holla. Stay safe.

Misanthropist: Thanks, bro. That's what this site is for. It means a lot; I was almost convinced the other day to quit posting information after a couple posts devolved into a war of words. Von Rheydt justly reminded me to remain professional and take things with a grain of salt. Since then, I've recently encountered more than a few people who are using the forums for their intended purpose, and I was encouraged.

I used to moonlight at an outdoor store for the ridiculous discounts, and the trail runner vs. light hiker question was probably the most common. The truth is that the lines are continuing to blur. Throw in some misconceptions, as well as the new-ish low cut 'casual light-hiker' category, and there is a lot of confusion.

The biggest thing that separates a trail runner from a hiking shoe (of any level) is the firmness of the midsole. That is the single most important factor in trying to match boots to whatever conditions you may encounter. And contrary to what the name sounds like, midsole doesn't mean 'halfway down the length of the sole.' Rather, it's the layer between the insole (where the bottom of your feet touch) and the outsole (what touches the ground).

A firm midsole is necessary simply for the fact that without them, the muscles on the bottom of your feet will be doing all the work to keep itself stable under your body weight. (Think what your feet do in a running shoe, which has a very flexible midsole.) Put some weight on your back, or even without extra weight, a lot of inclines, and your feet are not all strong enough to keep up. Also, it helps protect the sole of your feet from rocks, etc.

You may notice after a long hike, the muscles on the bottom of your feet (the plantar fascia, specifically) are sore; likely, boots not firm enough were the culprit. This is particularly the case with steep inclines; the flex in the shoes puts all the work back onto the muscles of the feet.

Most companies, for light hikers, use what's called triple-density eva foam for the insole. For what's required, the word 'foam' may make you uneasy, but it works perfectly, while saving weight. (Remember, every pound of shoe weight on your feet translates to about the same energy consumption as if carrying five or six pounds on your back.)

With proper design, the massive outsoles you see on low-cut light hikers aren't at all necessary. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that entire category of shoe (the low casual hiker ) is pretty unnecessary, in terms of functionality. A Salomon trail runner will provide just the same support and more stability, with less weight.

The only reason that 'genre' exists is for a more subdued, less sporty look than trail runners that people can wear to work. They sell for that reason, and that people incorrectly think they need them to do light hiking. Other than looks, there is not a single advantage afforded by most of those shoes. Only disadvantages, really. Mind you - there are some that genuinely have a stiffer midsole. That said, with those low-cut shoes, the parts around your ankles (called the collar) will dig into your legs like crazy when tackling inclines. That force, normally absorbed by sole flexion, has to go somewhere.

A true light hiker (think Asolo Fugitive, Vasque Breeze, etc) is the next real step up from a shoe built as well as a Salomon trail runner. These have a higher ankle, and a stiffer midsole. The misconception is that the boot higher on the leg will provide protection against twisting the ankle. That is largely incorrect. To do that, the sides of the boots would have to be much, much more rigid. The higher ankle serves two real functions: to protect the ankle from scrapes and blows from rocks, etc; and to better keep the heel seated in the boot. In those boots, the surface of the outsole under the heel tends to be wider, giving better heel stability; that's really what 'prevents' you from rolling your ankle, not the higher ankle coverage.

I realize that means that about 99% of the world's notions of hiking boots are wrong, but I'm afraid that's the case. Think - if you had a pack on your back, or were moving briskly, do you honestly think those three inches of leather would stop you from twisting your ankle? Not so much. The other advantage to higher collars on boots is the flex in the material at the ankle allows the energy from a step up an incline that would, on a stiff, low cut shoe otherwise be translated into the collar cutting into your ankle. (What I mentioned earlier.)

From this point, we graduate to the 'real' boots. Ones with little or no flex, and harder and higher sides, all the way up to actual plastic boots. These are unnecessary for 99% of the people in the world. That simple. I won't even discuss those for now. Just find a good middle ground, and you're set. People tend to make the mistake of buying too much boot. They're too heavy, and far too stiff to allow any kind of flex. The boots will dig into the Achilles tendon, calf, and ankle, and the entire experience will be ruined. Remember - aching feet will ruin an entire trip. That will be the only thing you really remember, and the time will have been wasted.

I keep bringing up Salomons, but for a reason. They are exceptionally built. The difference between them and every other shoe company is simple; their trail running line is conceived for the sake of racing, or at the very least, serious training. Better construction and minimal weight is the result. So when you take that mindset to boots, everyone wins.

But again, be mindful of I said earlier about the Salomon boots: these are light hikers, leaning more towards the light; the midsoles are very similar to that of the XA Pro 3d running shoe. They are significantly stiffer than the trail runner, but the danger, with heavy weight or steep inclines, is plantar fascia pain. I'll be interested to see what you think. Please let us know.

For those still pondering the light hiker question, there are literally hundreds of reputable choices out there. Follow these guidelines for reference. For fairly tame pursuits, go with a Salomon XA Pro 3d. With sharper inclines, 30ish lb's on your back, think Salomon Quest 4d's or another of their hikers. Anything more, or much steeper inclines, think Asolo Fugitive or Flame. Those models will cover just about anything you'll encounter. (On the way to Everest, I wore Salomon trail runners for the first few days. Things got a tad trickier, and I transitioned to the Asolo Fugitives all the way to the base. Not a problem.)

I'm suggesting these models not to get you to buy them specifically, but to try them on to get a frame of reference as to the stiffness of the midsole necessary for each level of difficulty in the expected activity.

Hope that provides some clarity.

Be safe.

Moose-Knuckle

05-17-13, 23:18

jmoney

06-21-14, 17:16

Its been awhile so I thought I would bump this thread instead of starting a new one.

I have Kayland hunter's which I love. However, it appears they no longer ship to the US, and no longer make the Hunter. Are people a big fan of the ASolo fugitives or should I start looking for something different.

I remember a few years back seeing that many people had problems with the bonding on the fugitives.

Trifecta

06-21-14, 18:12

Recently got a pair of Belleville Boots for testing and evaluation purposes from Belleville boots.

They are the TR960Z waterproof khyber boots, they are lace/zip up boots and are incredibly comfortable even took them on a 4 mile run and it didn't suck. My only bitch about them is that they don't come in any other color than black, but since I got them for free I can't complain too much. I would recommend them, I will be buying another pair once these wear out.

EzGoingKev

06-21-14, 18:35

I have a pair of Scarpa Kailash's that have been great.

My only issue with the European boots are that they are made to fit different and cannot get replacement insoles that have the same design.

jmoney

06-21-14, 20:01

I have a pair of Scarpa Kailash's that have been great.

My only issue with the European boots are that they are made to fit different and cannot get replacement insoles that have the same design.

I really like those, I am going to try and find somewhere to try a pair on. I am really disappointed that Kayland doesn't sell here anymore, since these have been the most bombproof boots I have ever owned, but I think I will give the kailash a fair shake.

gunnut284

06-22-14, 06:38

I recently bought a pair of Tactical Research boots (don't recall the exact model, they are multicam 8-9") and they are very comfortable. I've been wearing various 5.11s for the past 8 years and been reasonably happy with them but the TRs are definitely more comfortable.

South

06-22-14, 06:46

...............

jknopp44

06-24-14, 04:03

Anyone here that has Salomon Quest 4Ds that can give any advice about sizing? Most people seem to say to order your normal size but Salomon's own sizing chart says way different.

For example, my foot with my hiking socks measures 11" even. So I normally order that size, but Salomon's chart says for 11" feet to order a size 10 which is conflicting with what some reviewers say. I don't have anywhere near to try these on so I am trying to get it right the first time.

In my experience they have been true to size. I have multiple pairs of the Quest 4Ds and this has been true for every one of them.

Tim059

06-24-14, 22:50

I have a pair of Salomon X Ultra Mid GTX's. I wear a size 10 in everything, Asics, Nike SFB's, 5.11's and Danners. I would say that Salomon runs pretty true to size.

Anyone here that has Salomon Quest 4Ds that can give any advice about sizing? Most people seem to say to order your normal size but Salomon's own sizing chart says way different.

For example, my foot with my hiking socks measures 11" even. So I normally order that size, but Salomon's chart says for 11" feet to order a size 10 which is conflicting with what some reviewers say. I don't have anywhere near to try these on so I am trying to get it right the first time.

South

06-25-14, 06:53

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