View Full Version : Why do so many people think firearms are registered?
theblackknight
03-03-10, 17:14
WTF. I just had a fellow Marine I work with swear up and down that every gun gets registered with the feds. Where does this come from?
the media saying that the gun XXXX used wasnt registered
Ridge_Runner_5
03-03-10, 17:19
Yeah. Shows like CSI and Law & Order and the like saying things like "the gun isnt registered" in free states like Florida and Nevada...
the media saying that the gun XXXX used wasnt registered. What i wanna know is why does the media think all guns are full auto or ak47's?
Business_Casual
03-03-10, 17:26
the media saying that the gun XXXX used wasnt registered. What i wanna know is why does the media think all guns are full auto or ak47's?
They don't, they are just repeating the lie often enough and loud enough to make people think that is the case.
M_P
Same reason shit like "if ya got a .45, all ya gotta do is shoot em in thar leg and they'll drop dead" propagates.
People are dumb.
GermanSynergy
03-03-10, 17:31
Yeah. Shows like CSI and Law & Order and the like saying things like "the gun isnt registered" in free states like Florida and Nevada...
This. Years ago my ex wife bought me a 9mm Walther P99 & HK USP 9 for my birthday. We were living in Texas at the time. She was going to call the police and "register" the pistols, since she had seen this on a CSI type show. :D
EzGoingKev
03-03-10, 17:40
The law in MA is that you have to register all firearms with the state.
They have an FA-10 form that you can pick up from any police station and once filled out it gets mailed in.
This.
What on earth does "this" mean? Keep seeing it here recently.
Assuming it means you agree, but even so...
theblackknight
03-03-10, 17:46
The law in MA is that you have to register all firearms with the state.
They have an FA-10 form that you can pick up from any police station and once filled out it gets mailed in.
thats it! hes from MA poor guy.
Please pardon my ignorance, but are you guys saying the Feds don't keep records of the guns we purchase? I'm supposed to believe that the Feds don't track the background checks? When I purchase a firearm, why is the serial number provided during the background check?
When a firearm is used in a crime, law enforcement can determine who originally purchased the weapon. How is that not being "registered"?
Stupid TV shows and movies.
Alpha Sierra
03-03-10, 18:44
Please pardon my ignorance, but are you guys saying the Feds don't keep records of the guns we purchase? I'm supposed to believe that the Feds don't track the background checks? When I purchase a firearm, why is the serial number provided during the background check?
When a firearm is used in a crime, law enforcement can determine who originally purchased the weapon. How is that not being "registered"?
The background check information is supposed to be deleted once the purchase is approved. Does it happen? I sure as hell hope so.
The dealer keeps the 4473 form. When a firearm is used in a crime and recovered, police will perform a trace back to the manufacturer. They will tell them who they sold it do (distributor). The distributor will in turn tell the feds which dealer bought it from them. From there the dealer produces the 4473 and the first owner is determine. If the first owner has sold the firearm privately in a state that allows it (almost all of them) and cannot recall who he sold it to, the trace dies.
I have sold several firearms, mostly on internet gun sales sites. I ship it to the FFL that the buyer sends me to. I do not keep a bill of sale, a copy of the FFL license, or any other record. I sold it and that is that. What happens to it afterward is not my concern nor my responsibility. And it is perfectly legal in every state that I have done so.
So no, there is no central registry. There is a paper trail on new firearm sales nationwide and a paper trail on all or some person-to-person firearm sales in some states.
Alpha Sierra
03-03-10, 18:47
BTW, the other media hackjob is "the shooter was not a licensed gun owner" or some such bullshit.
I've never have had to be licensed to buy any freaking gun in my life.
Alpha Sierra,
I've always wondered about the process and if the government does in fact have records of firearm sales or if they get deleted like they are supposed to. I hope you are right too.
Thanks.
Please pardon my ignorance, but are you guys saying the Feds don't keep records of the guns we purchase? I'm supposed to believe that the Feds don't track the background checks? When I purchase a firearm, why is the serial number provided during the background check?
SNs are not part of NICS.
Sell that gun (or buy one) from someone on the street and no govt knows about it.
The same reason pistols all sound like the hammer of a revolver being pulled back when they draw their weapon.
My personal favorite is the racking of the slide to chamber a round before they kick the door down. Who carries with an empty chamber anyway.
All media and TV propaganda that most liberal non gun owners believe.
The background check information is supposed to be deleted once the purchase is approved. Does it happen? I sure as hell hope so.
The dealer keeps the 4473 form. When a firearm is used in a crime and recovered, police will perform a trace back to the manufacturer. They will tell them who they sold it do (distributor). The distributor will in turn tell the feds which dealer bought it from them. From there the dealer produces the 4473 and the first owner is determine. If the first owner has sold the firearm privately in a state that allows it (almost all of them) and cannot recall who he sold it to, the trace dies.
I have sold several firearms, mostly on internet gun sales sites. I ship it to the FFL that the buyer sends me to. I do not keep a bill of sale, a copy of the FFL license, or any other record. I sold it and that is that. What happens to it afterward is not my concern nor my responsibility. And it is perfectly legal in every state that I have done so.
So no, there is no central registry. There is a paper trail on new firearm sales nationwide and a paper trail on all or some person-to-person firearm sales in some states.
That is exactly how my CHL instructor explained it and he has a FFL.
The background check information is supposed to be deleted once the purchase is approved. Does it happen? I sure as hell hope so.
Yes, I'm sure we can all trust that the Feds delete this information. :rolleyes:
geminidglocker
03-03-10, 19:54
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/davecharlie08/journalistguide.jpg
:D;)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/davecharlie08/journalistguide.jpg
:D;)
Lol...thats about what it really comes down to. Rep Carolyn McCarthy seems to think along those lines . Shoulda threw in an "M-47" for some good measure!!:D
tracker722
03-03-10, 19:59
******
RogerinTPA
03-03-10, 20:17
The moment a law is passed to register your firearm, is the moment we are on the path as the UK and Australia. It should be a loud and clear message to revolt or bury your guns.
Indiana has no registration, no waiting periods, and no limits on purchase quantities. Never had any of that as far as I know.
Yet I have seen many people at my local gun shop ask about registration, waiting periods, etc. People are just ignorant of the actual laws in their respective states, and as everyone else said, believe what's on TV.
Alpha Sierra
03-03-10, 20:39
Indiana has no registration, no waiting periods, and no limits on purchase quantities. Never had any of that as far as I know.
+1 on your neighbor to the east.
Yes, I'm sure we can all trust that the Feds delete this information. :rolleyes:
Well Ted Kennedy got apoplectic and could not understand why the NICS records should not be retained for the purpose of aiding terrorist investigations after 911, so that would presume he believed the FBI is not retaining the records beyond the current statute limits:
Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day.
Well Ted Kennedy got apoplectic and could not understand why the NICS records should not be retained for the purpose of aiding terrorist investigations after 911, so that would presume he believed the FBI is not retaining the records beyond the current statute limits:
Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day.
Teddy kind of missed the point because terrorists seem to prefer planes and bombs, not guns. Nidal Hassan is the only terrorist that has used a gun on US soil that I can think of. And it wasn't hard to find out where he got the gun either.
EzGoingKev
03-03-10, 22:29
The same reason pistols all sound like the hammer of a revolver being pulled back when they draw their weapon.
I love it when they cock the hammer on a Glock pistol on TV.
My personal favorite is the racking of the slide to chamber a round before they kick the door down. Who carries with an empty chamber anyway.
Even better - a guy has just been firing his semi-auto pistol in a gunfight. He then gets someone at gun point and to intimidate the person into talking he racks the slide to put a round into the chamber. WTF? There already would have been one in the chamber.
I am watching something now where the cops bring in a wounded suspect that is cuffed to the gurney. The doctor wants the cuffs removed and the cops standing their all say they need to find out who's cuffs they are to get the key to open them. AFAIK cuffs take those universal keys.
What on earth does "this" mean? Keep seeing it here recently.
Assuming it means you agree, but even so...
You've never seen "Deer Hunter"?
"This is this, this isn't something else...this is this."
:D
i definitely agree with the TV show/media theory
i was going to sell a gun through private sale and asked my mom to keep my kids....she asked me how the gun got re-registered...i asked her where she got that silly notion and she said that she saw it on NICS (which takes place a lot in NoVA allegedly)
some time later I saw a similar thing on the tv show "Bones" (which has horrific firearms accuracy)...talking about "unregistered guns" in Virginia....
used to make me laugh, but the misinformation spreads quickly...questions like this get asked all the time at Virginia Arms...
Some states and cities do require registration of firearms.
Take this information for what it is. I have a friend on HKPro that called me this past weekend with an interesting story. His neighbor works for homeland security and went to a security training conference. When he came back they chatted and his friend told him he looked him up in the system just to try it out and.....basically told him all kinds of info that he found about him....stuff that he was suprised to find out including the make,serial number, and store he purchased an HK45 pistol from about 3 weeks earlier!!! The only thing I can attribute this to is that he has a couple of SBRs and maybe they keep closer tabs on NFA reg owners...
Even so, he hasn't submitted any paperwork for any NFA firearms in almost 2yrs, so I don't know what to think.
I have a good friend that is with the FBI and asked him about this and haven't heard anything back...no reply at all. He's usually very good about responding within a day or so..Take it for what it's worth. After the story he told me I feel uncomfortable even mentioning this, but thought I should.
geminidglocker
03-03-10, 23:36
Enough already! If there were such a thing as "Universal Firearms Registry", Those of us talking on this forum right now would be dead. End of story. Let Freedon reign!;)
EzGoingKev
03-03-10, 23:39
Personally I thought that when you purchase a gun from a gun store/FFL that one of the things you fill out went to the feds to register your purchase.
Unfortunately people believe what the read and what the see on TV/movies and writers for the media and journalists write was sounds more dramatic, inflammatory and interesting. The police that give the info also "often" play on this. During the Branch Davidian Standoff the ATF said that the Davidians had a 50 cal that could take out helos at 2 miles and alluded to the Browning M2 which was shown in news reports for the entirety. This mis-info gave them the justification to keep all news helos and journalist at a 2 mile radius so they could not see what was happening. This kinda crap happens alot.
Please pardon my ignorance, but are you guys saying the Feds don't keep records of the guns we purchase? I'm supposed to believe that the Feds don't track the background checks? When I purchase a firearm, why is the serial number provided during the background check?
It is not. The only thing that the background check people are told is if it is a long gun, handgun, or "other" (receiver, frame, etc).
I am not an FFL but have been sitting there many times when my dealer guy calls me in to do the background check. No S/N or anything are sent in.
The S/N etc goes on the 4473 which stays with the dealer. It does happen that sometimes the ATF comes in and looks up certain 4473s etc so some info may be sent in that way.
When a firearm is used in a crime, law enforcement can determine who originally purchased the weapon. How is that not being "registered"?
They work back from the manufacturer. They go to the manufacturer, who tells them who they sold it to (dealer/distributor). Then they go to that guy and ask him for the 4473 on that transaction. They work down the chain that way as far as possible.
I get the "are all your guns registered?" question a LOT! My answer typically is "registered? with whom and why?" No one can give me a good answer to my questions.
i carried a K-Bar on my hip when i was a kid, probably till the day i left for the Army. Oregon doesn't have any length prohibitions- only stillettos, switchblades, and daggers would qualify for "concealed weapon," if you were to conceal them, but even those are legal to OC. one day, i found myself in a department store in Portland with my girlfriend, for some forgotten reason (i've always avoided the entire city and surrounding areas, if possible), and a 9-10yo kid saw my knife.. his little eyes got all big, and he pointed at it and said, "you got that registered?" my mouth opened, and my eyebrow cocked.... but how do you completely re-educate someone with a passing comment? pretty sure i just said something like "uh, no." and kept walking.
thats the only time i've been asked about having a weapon registered.. didn't know it was a "thing," but that would explain it.. many years later. i dont watch TV, so i guess i haven't been exposed to a lot of popular stupidity.
in reference to "cocking" a glock... i did hear a gayngsta rap song the other day, which included the lyrics "i keep ma glock cocked." i was amused. rappers are so gay.
Nathan_Bell
03-04-10, 07:50
Take this information for what it is. I have a friend on HKPro that called me this past weekend with an interesting story. His neighbor works for homeland security and went to a security training conference. When he came back they chatted and his friend told him he looked him up in the system just to try it out and.....basically told him all kinds of info that he found about him....stuff that he was suprised to find out including the make,serial number, and store he purchased an HK45 pistol from about 3 weeks earlier!!! The only thing I can attribute this to is that he has a couple of SBRs and maybe they keep closer tabs on NFA reg owners...
Even so, he hasn't submitted any paperwork for any NFA firearms in almost 2yrs, so I don't know what to think.
I have a good friend that is with the FBI and asked him about this and haven't heard anything back...no reply at all. He's usually very good about responding within a day or so..Take it for what it's worth. After the story he told me I feel uncomfortable even mentioning this, but thought I should.
Neither Serial number nor manufacturer is transmitted during a phone NICS check. The only firearm specific question is what kind of fire arm; the answers being handgun, long gun, or 'other'. After the NTN and a proceed is given, the FFL finishes the 4473 and it is filed on the site of the shop or in a location that can allow search within one business day.
Nathan_Bell
03-04-10, 07:53
Personally I thought that when you purchase a gun from a gun store/FFL that one of the things you fill out went to the feds to register your purchase.
In your state you might have something that goes to your State Police for registration, but nothing that specifically identifies a gun is sent to the Federales.
geminidglocker
03-04-10, 08:00
i carried a K-Bar on my hip when i was a kid, probably till the day i left for the Army. Oregon doesn't have any length prohibitions- only stillettos, switchblades, and daggers would qualify for "concealed weapon," if you were to conceal them, but even those are legal to OC. one day, i found myself in a department store in Portland with my girlfriend, for some forgotten reason (i've always avoided the entire city and surrounding areas, if possible), and a 9-10yo kid saw my knife.. his little eyes got all big, and he pointed at it and said, "you got that registered?" my mouth opened, and my eyebrow cocked.... but how do you completely re-educate someone with a passing comment? pretty sure i just said something like "uh, no." and kept walking.
thats the only time i've been asked about having a weapon registered.. didn't know it was a "thing," but that would explain it.. many years later. i dont watch TV, so i guess i haven't been exposed to a lot of popular stupidity.
in reference to "cocking" a glock... i did hear a gayngsta rap song the other day, which included the lyrics "i keep ma glock cocked." i was amused. rappers are so gay.
Why were you listenig to rap?
Some states and cities do require registration of firearms.
LOL
See I find this topic funny... to purchase a long gun, I had to go to the police station, fill out 3 applications, provide 2 references, pay $68+$5, get finger printed and wait 30+ days for a card that said I could buy a rifle or shotgun lol.
Then everytime I want to buy a pistol, I have to do the whole proccess all over again plus an additional $2, wait another 30+ days to get a permit to purchase that expires in 90 days. lol
Maybe all those shows and news reports come from NJ cause I sure as f*ck had to be a registered gun owner and every firearm had to get registered at the time of purchase lol
Nathan_Bell
03-04-10, 08:12
LOL
See I find this topic funny... to purchase a long gun, I had to go to the police station, fill out 3 applications, provide 2 references, pay $68+$5, get finger printed and wait 30+ days for a card that said I could buy a rifle or shotgun lol.
Then everytime I want to buy a pistol, I have to do the whole proccess all over again plus an additional $2, wait another 30+ days to get a permit to purchase that expires in 90 days. lol
Maybe all those shows and news reports come from NJ cause I sure as f*ck had to be a registered gun owner and every firearm had to get registered at the time of purchase lol
Think you have it pretty close. Recall where most "entertainment" is produced. Caulifornia (at least that is how their governor says it) and New York, neither are RKBA friendly. The writers probably do think that all guns are registered.
... to purchase a long gun, I had to go to the police station, fill out 3 applications, provide 2 references, pay $68+$5, get finger printed and wait 30+ days for a card that said I could buy a rifle or shotgun lol.
Probably why your Location line says what it does.
LOL
See I find this topic funny... to purchase a long gun, I had to go to the police station, fill out 3 applications, provide 2 references, pay $68+$5, get finger printed and wait 30+ days for a card that said I could buy a rifle or shotgun lol.
Then everytime I want to buy a pistol, I have to do the whole proccess all over again plus an additional $2, wait another 30+ days to get a permit to purchase that expires in 90 days. lol
Maybe all those shows and news reports come from NJ cause I sure as f*ck had to be a registered gun owner and every firearm had to get registered at the time of purchase lol
I am 5 weeks and counting waiting for my next pistol permit.
Makes me just want to say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2YDq6FkVE&feature=related
Probably why your Location line says what it does.
obviosly, but what I was saying is exactly what Nathan picked up on. If you think where most movies and TV shows are made be it CA or NY, those states make you jump thought non stop hoops to buy firearms, so when people who live in those states write TV shows and Movies, they use what is best known to them...
on a side note... the law in NJ says it should take no more than 30 days to get your ID card and or a pistol purchase permit.. the first time I waited over 2 months. I recently bought a condo, I had to fill out all the paperwork again, give two references and wait over 30 days again just for a change of address...
lol
Bulldog1967
03-04-10, 08:44
Because the "4th estate" (the media), has been operating as a 5th column forever and has told the sheeple this bullshit forever. :mad:
SouthWolfGA
03-04-10, 09:08
My personal favorite is the racking of the slide to chamber a round before they kick the door down. Who carries with an empty chamber anyway.
Actually, it is best advised to keep your weapon in condition 3 until you intend to use it i.e. before clearing a house. Even some of the most veteran of carriers can have an accidental discharge while trying to withdraw the pistol from it's holster if a round is chambered.
For practical purposes "firearm" in New york is a pistol and all pistols are registered to an individual owner(although cross referencing to others permits is allowed)
It is common for new residents who come from more gun friendly states to have no clue about our system(I know poor choice of words) and wonder about getting a CCW for the pistols they already possess when in NY YOU CAN NOT possess a pistol in any way (few rare exceptions) without a permit.
I am 5 weeks and counting waiting for my next pistol permit.
Makes me just want to say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2YDq6FkVE&feature=related
the law says 30 days...
"2C:58-3(f). Purchase of firearms
"...the licensing authority who shall investigate the same and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefor, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State and within 45 days for nonresident applicants.
Last time it took a little longer and I was thinking going to them with this... but then I was afraid I would be told my application was denied and to f-off...
tracker722
03-04-10, 10:12
******
theblackknight
03-04-10, 10:17
Actually, it is best advised to keep your weapon in condition 3 until you intend to use it i.e. before clearing a house. Even some of the most veteran of carriers can have an accidental discharge while trying to withdraw the pistol from it's holster if a round is chambered.
Can of worms: OPENED
OMG I just re-read that. you said "accidental discharge". I hope your pulling my leg guy
tracker722
03-04-10, 10:20
*******
theblackknight
03-04-10, 10:31
Naw Naw I just dont want to correct him. I suck at typing, and computers in general. But that didnt stop command from sending me to ANOTHER C2PC class.:mad:
tracker722
03-04-10, 10:32
******
Actually, it is best advised to keep your weapon in condition 3 until you intend to use it
no... no it's not.
Why were you listenig to rap?
it happens as a result of living in this rap-saturated society. i've had to research quite a bit of rap through the course of mine studies, however, and it can be quite fascinating.. note my sigline, for instance.
SouthWolfGA
03-04-10, 11:29
Well I only know what the most safe way to carry is. You carry with a round in chamber if you want. I know a couple of guys who fired their pistol while trying to withdraw. In my not so humble opinion, if you feel that it is needed to have a round the chamber, your pistol should already be drawn.
SouthWolfGA
03-04-10, 11:30
????? Where did you pick up this ill-conceived notion?
In the Marine Corps
Well I only know what the most safe way to carry is. You carry with a round in chamber if you want. I know a couple of guys who fired their pistol while trying to withdraw. In my not so humble opinion, if you feel that it is needed to have a round the chamber, your pistol should already be drawn.
Please reconsider your position...read this thread and put yourself there. When exactly would you rack the slide and still have an advantage??
The "I'll always have time to rack the slide" is not a good theory. It may be safer as you are thinking about it but it may not 'save' you.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45461
SouthWolfGA
03-04-10, 11:42
Please reconsider your position...read this thread and put yourself there. When exactly would you rack the slide and still have an advantage??
The "I'll always have time to rack the slide" is not a good theory. It may be safer as you are thinking about it but it may not 'save' you.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45461
If you are in an enviroment that you are in constant threat, like a war zone or about to go into a hostile enviroment, then yes you should chamber but you should also have your weapon at the ready and not holstered. Only reasonable exception I can think of is in a hot zone in war. Obviously you will need to be ready to fire at a moents notice.
However, most the time (Especially in civilian applications) this is not the case.
As far as having time to rack? There are holsters that will chamber a round for you as you withdraw the pistol. I recomend them.
theJanitor
03-04-10, 11:46
In Hawaii, we have to register EVERYTHING. remember, this is the state that tried to ban folding pocket knives:rolleyes:
but get this; there are two permitting processes here. One for long guns, and one for pistols.
for pistols:
take a firearms training/safety course (once per lifetime is ok)
acquire the SN of the pistol
go to the PD and apply for a PERMIT TO ACQUIRE said pistol, by SN
wait two weeks for background check and mental health check
go back to the PD and pick up the PERMIT TO ACQUIRE
take that PERMIT TO ACQUIRE to the dealer or individual and get the pistol
take the pistol back to the PD for registration (within 5 days, IIRC)
for long guns:
go to the PD and apply for a LONG GUN PERMIT (no training required)
wait two weeks
go to PD and pick up permit (which is good for one calendar year)
BUY AS MANY LONG GUNS (rifles, shotguns, etc) as you want, as many at a time you want, for ONE year. NO waiting periods, not specific permits, etc
go to PD and register long gun (within 5 days)
two weeks before your permit expires, go back to the PD and apply for another permit (that way your rifle buying privileges never lapse)
how ass-backward can this be?
If you are in an enviroment that you are in constant threat, like a war zone or about to go into a hostile enviroment, then yes you should chamber but you should also have your weapon at the ready and not holstered. Only reasonable exception I can think of is in a hot zone in war. Obviously you will need to be ready to fire at a moents notice.
However, most the time (Especially in civilian applications) this is not the case.
As far as having time to rack? There are holsters that will chamber a round for you as you withdraw the pistol. I recomend them.
Happily you are free to do as you choose and the rest of us are as well.
I would absolutely love a link to one of these holsters you mention.
If you are in an enviroment that you are in constant threat, like a war zone or about to go into a hostile enviroment, then yes you should chamber but you should also have your weapon at the ready and not holstered. Only reasonable exception I can think of is in a hot zone in war. Obviously you will need to be ready to fire at a moents notice.
However, most the time (Especially in civilian applications) this is not the case.
As far as having time to rack? There are holsters that will chamber a round for you as you withdraw the pistol. I recomend them.
sigh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk
If you are in an enviroment that you are in constant threat, like a war zone or about to go into a hostile enviroment, then yes you should chamber but you should also have your weapon at the ready and not holstered. Only reasonable exception I can think of is in a hot zone in war. Obviously you will need to be ready to fire at a moents notice.
However, most the time (Especially in civilian applications) this is not the case.
As far as having time to rack? There are holsters that will chamber a round for you as you withdraw the pistol. I recomend them.
No thanks, I will just keep a round in the chamber. It is safer that way. Screwing with your gun under pressure is dangerous.
As far as having time to rack? There are holsters that will chamber a round for you as you withdraw the pistol. I recomend them.
I would also ask that you show us these slide racking holsters. Have to see this one.
tracker722
03-04-10, 11:57
******
If you are in an enviroment that you are in constant threat, like a war zone or about to go into a hostile enviroment, then yes you should chamber but you should also have your weapon at the ready and not holstered. Only reasonable exception I can think of is in a hot zone in war. Obviously you will need to be ready to fire at a moents notice.
However, most the time (Especially in civilian applications) this is not the case.
As far as having time to rack? There are holsters that will chamber a round for you as you withdraw the pistol. I recomend them.
1. Carrying an gun without one loaded in the chamber is a paperweight.
2. How do you know if you will have time to rack a round in the chamber?
3. WHAT in the HOO-HA are you talking about having a holster chamber a round for you as you draw the pistol?? You have GOT to be joking....or woefully ignorant.
As far as having time to rack? There are holsters that will chamber a round for you as you withdraw the pistol. I recomend them.
ACK! there are a very small number of israeli and russian designs, for a select few pistols, that i know of at least, that'll do this... and they're HORRIBLE designs that only increase the risk of severing your own femoral. not to mention they'd terribly limit your options in carry method.
i dont know about you, but if i'm faced with a threat on the "streetz," i'm probably going for my gun immediately, and will be hoping for the element of surprise. "action/reaction" teaches that you can almost always draw and fire before a badguy, who's already pointing a gun at you, can react to your movement and squeeze the trigger. if you're reaching for your weapon under the pretense of handing over your wallet, for instance, you have an even better chance at survival, because it's gonna take a lot longer for him to realize you have a GUN in your hand instead of a wallet. but you HAVE TO BE FAST! you can't stop and rack the slide, or you WILL die.
i really dont want to get into a debate about this, and nobody wants to watch one- but i feel compelled to give this example so you'll put some more thought into your defensive carry considerations.
ACK! there are a very small number of israeli and russian designs, for a select few pistols, that i know of at least, that'll do this...
Interesting. Can you explain to us how they work? If you draw the weapon, it is being moved in the opposite direction required to rack. It is one where the draw is some type of forward motion utilizing friction somehow?
Interesting. Can you explain to us how they work? If you draw the weapon, it is being moved in the opposite direction required to rack. It is one where the draw is some type of forward motion utilizing friction somehow?
Maybe "SOUTHWOLFGA" can holster his "UPSIDE DOWN".:D
My girlfriend told me I should register my gun. In case it's stolen or something it would be a good idea. I said as long as I have the SN written down... And the gov't is the one I'm worried about taking my gun.
As far as having time to rack? There are holsters that will chamber a round for you as you withdraw the pistol. I recomend them.
And this improves safety how? You still have a round in the chamber when the pistol leaves the holster (if they actually work) which is what you were saying is so dangerous. Nothing has changed and this did not solve any problem.
Interesting. Can you explain to us how they work? If you draw the weapon, it is being moved in the opposite direction required to rack. It is one where the draw is some type of forward motion utilizing friction somehow?
the two or three different ones i've seen all functioned the same.. you place your hand on the grip and either pushed straight down, or rock the weapon and push straight down. the holster grabs by the slide, yanking it back as you draw. there was a thread on this right here on M4 not too long ago- i think it was on the makarov design.
obvious problems exist- the fact that you really, fundamentally, increase the risk of an AD during the draw, as the weapon is being jerked in the direction the trigger depresses. there's also a great deal of risk of losing control of the weapon during the draw and jerking of the slide.. fumbled guns were pretty common. furthermore, there's just no guarantee you'll end up with a closed slide with a round in the chamber- it really just operates on luck.
as far as i know, NOBODY uses a racking holster anymore. at least nobody with any modern training.
http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-equip_belts.htm
here's one
sorry to the op as well on the hijack...hopefully we got that covered.
I have no problem if some folks worry about keeping an auto chambered but I do however find it unacceptable to suggest this method to others as it could cause them their life. Some advice on the internets is down right scary.
Those who have issues with chambered autos would be better served to carry a good wheel gun.
SouthWolfGA
03-04-10, 13:08
I did not intend to hijack the thread, just intended to point out that some of us are trained to not keep one chambered unless it is intended to be used. Therefore, an officer chambering a round right before performing a house bust would not be that crazy to me.
My apologies for the hijack. As far as the OP goes, I believe many people think that when the background check is ran is when they get registered.
tracker722
03-04-10, 13:18
*******
Neither Serial number nor manufacturer is transmitted during a phone NICS check. The only firearm specific question is what kind of fire arm; the answers being handgun, long gun, or 'other'. After the NTN and a proceed is given, the FFL finishes the 4473 and it is filed on the site of the shop or in a location that can allow search within one business day.
Just passing on the info that was given to me by I guy I've chatted with for a couple of years now and never got a sense of craziness from him, so I'm going to lean towards belief or at least he believed what he was telling me.
geminidglocker
03-04-10, 14:13
In the Marine Corps
That figures. I was almost shot by a Marines accidental discharge once in Iraq. Less than a month later the same incident occured with another Marine, but I was'nt there to see it.
Oh, and right now three of the firearms in my living room have a round in the chamber, not to mention the Glock on my hip. Gun's should only be "Cleared"
for cleaning purposes. If you pull the trigger during a draw, you probably deserve to have an ND.
I would also ask that you show us these slide racking holsters. Have to see this one.
spetznaz have been using one of these types of holster for their makerovs for years. think about how great it would be to have a holster to rack your slide especially if you only had one arm that was functioning.
SouthWolfGA
03-04-10, 15:02
Please continue the weapon condition convo here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=48778
sigh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk
I shudder every time I see that video! Not because of what happened, but because of what DIDN'T happen. The woman with the child just stood there, frozen like a stone. Guess that goes to show that there those that fight, those that move and those that freeze up. All three were in the video.
Oh, and IMO, as others have stated, a pistol without a round in the tube... well, I hope you took "How to defend yourself with a brick" classes.
As far as the registered part, every gun purchased thru an FFL has paperwork stored away, but that's not "registering" it. Don't they have to keep that paperwork for 10 years or until they go out of business? What happens to it after that time? I think they have to send it to the feds, don't they?
As far as the registered part, every gun purchased thru an FFL has paperwork stored away, but that's not "registering" it. Don't they have to keep that paperwork for 10 years or until they go out of business? What happens to it after that time? I think they have to send it to the feds, don't they?
It's OK to get the answers straight from your FFL Dealer. Then you don't have to take "Hearsay" from the errornet.
sigh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk
OUTSTANDING.
It's OK to get the answers straight from your FFL Dealer. Then you don't have to take "Hearsay" from the errornet.
I DID hear that from an FFL, but he's about 80, runs a pawn shop which he makes the most of his profit on, and I'm not sure how much I believe anything he says because he also says it's illegal to ship guns to him from internet purchases (from another FFL) because he didn't want to have to deal with it. Just because they have an FFL doesn't mean they're going to tell you the truth if it doesn't suit their needs. Besides, we've got more than a few FFL dealers on this site that may be able to "correct" me... or as I like to call it... provide an answer to a question. :D
Thomas M-4
03-04-10, 15:55
spetznaz have been using one of these types of holster for their makerovs for years. think about how great it would be to have a holster to rack your slide especially if you only had one arm that was functioning.
I wouldn't put much into what the spretznaz use I truly believe half the weaponry the Russians came up with served no other purpose than to scare the living crap out of the western world.
You have to push through the holster to rack a round into the chamber and to take off the safety:rolleyes: The Russians can keep the toe popper holster thanks but no-thanks.
Nathan_Bell
03-04-10, 16:01
I DID hear that from an FFL, but he's about 80, runs a pawn shop which he makes the most of his profit on, and I'm not sure how much I believe anything he says because he also says it's illegal to ship guns to him from internet purchases (from another FFL) because he didn't want to have to deal with it. Just because they have an FFL doesn't mean they're going to tell you the truth if it doesn't suit their needs. Besides, we've got more than a few FFL dealers on this site that may be able to "correct" me... or as I like to call it... provide an answer to a question. :D
20 or till out of business, if you go out before a 4473 has ripened you need to ship them of to the ATF. Gunshow 4473's must be in a seperate filing cabinet. If you have a fire or flood and the forms are damaged you are to contact the ATF ASAP and have them come and try to salvage any information.
Inspectors do not like FFL holders having bad handwriting as it makes reading A&D books a challenge.
My 5 o'clock and I need caffeine FFL paperwork "correction" :cool:
theblackknight
03-04-10, 16:28
To the OP, my apologies for starting a hijack to your question.
To SouthwolfGA, start a new thread regarding your statement and see what happens. But read the link ARTOS gave you first.
SouthwolfGA, were you geckco45 on another forum?
Your good bro. the can of worms reference was because I knew we'd have a couple sally's who carry condi3 and then everybody is just ready to pounce. Im not gonna waste my time trying to make them see the light.
Yeah. Shows like CSI and Law & Order and the like saying things like "the gun isnt registered" in free states like Florida and Nevada...
The state of Nevada does not require you to register handguns. However, Clark County, or Las Vegas for people who don't know, does require you to register handguns. In many circles you'll hear it referred to as a "blue card" named after the color of them. Clark County has the vast majority of Nevada residents and that's the only reason I brought it up. Waste of time and tax dollars if you ask me.
Great video Artos.
boggyboy72
03-04-10, 19:54
SouthwolfGA, were you geckco45 on another forum?[/QUOTE]
There's a name I haven't heard in a while.
Geckco45 the original Mall Ninja.
Well I only know what the most safe way to carry is. You carry with a round in chamber if you want. I know a couple of guys who fired their pistol while trying to withdraw. In my not so humble opinion, if you feel that it is needed to have a round the chamber, your pistol should already be drawn.
Safe for who? If one can't keep their booger-hook off the bang switch...then they do not need to carry a gun...
All (modern) pistols are designed to be carried loaded. Show me one that isn't designed to be carried loaded, and you'll find it to be a dangerous instrument.
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