Troy vs KAC drop in rails [Archive]

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dubuque

03-03-10, 19:45

what are the differences in the quality of the two? are KAC really worth the extra money? I've herd good things about both. please tell me about the pros and cons thanks

JonnyVain

03-03-10, 21:13

Six Feet Under

03-03-10, 21:17

I have no experience with the KAC rail, but with the prices you can find them for on AR15.com and other sites like M4C, the price shouldn't be an object as they end up being the same new and used as the Troy.

My buddy has a Troy rail and I'm very impressed with it. It didn't add much weight over the standard M4 hand guards, and it locks up very tight. There is zero play in his VFG or light either one.

Belmont31R

03-03-10, 22:06

KAC is a time and combat tested rail system still in use today.

You can find like new to new sets in the $150 range if you look around. No one but an idiot would pay 325 or whatever MSRP is on them.

SPM14430

03-03-10, 23:08

justin_247

03-04-10, 05:43

What are the weight differences?

I have the 12" MRF-R Troy. It installs easily and clamps onto the barrel extension securely. It also weighs a lot less than the Midwest Industries counterpart at 8.75oz

I have no experience with the KAC

Wow I just looked at their sight. Their M5 rail is 17oz. Plus 1 for Troy.

The KAC RAS rail systems weigh 8.8 oz (2.4 oz heavier than the stock plastic handguards) and are heat shielded. The Troy rails weigh about the same but don't come with heat shields, however have integrated sling swivel attach points. See this thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1121).

You see lots of KAC drop-in rails out there on Army and Marine Corps M-4s and M-16s, and the Air Force also uses a lot of Troy drop-in rails for their Security Police.

Whatever works best for you.

justin_247

03-04-10, 05:45

+1 for KAC RAS, as stated earlier... tried and true

Going rate is about $150 for rails, VFG and a set of panels

Your best bet is to get your hands on the KAC SAS lower rail, which has a locking tab as well. This will ensure rock solid lock up with no movement at all.

I've owned Larue, Daniel Defense, and Troy rails... all very nice, but find myself going back to Knights, it's classic.

I forgot to add this, as well. When you buy KAC RAS rails, you get rail covers and a vertical forward grip - Troy comes with just the rail. Go on Ebay and you can find the RAS for about $150.

JonnyVain

03-04-10, 09:34

The KAC RAS rail systems weigh 8.8 oz (2.4 oz heavier than the stock plastic handguards) and are heat shielded. The Troy rails weigh about the same but don't come with heat shields, however have integrated sling swivel attach points. See this thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1121).

You see lots of KAC drop-in rails out there on Army and Marine Corps M-4s and M-16s, and the Air Force also uses a lot of Troy drop-in rails for their Security Police.

Whatever works best for you.

You're comparing the KAC Carbine rail at 7" to the Troy Rifle rail at 12". The 12" KAC is over a pound.

justin_247

03-05-10, 11:14

You're comparing the KAC Carbine rail at 7" to the Troy Rifle rail at 12". The 12" KAC is over a pound.

No, I'm not.

JonnyVain

03-05-10, 16:42

No, I'm not.

Well please post a link with where you're getting your info, because the site I'm looking at says 17oz.

http://www.knightarmco.com/

newyork

03-05-10, 17:47

What about the DD Omega? Its light and very sturdy. At least it feels that way on my upper.

markm

03-05-10, 17:53

I've tried a few non-KAC rails and have gone back to KAC, Mack!

I don't like rails systems that deviate KAC rail width and height. The top rail matches the flat top other and the bottom and sides are recessed relative to the bore. That's the way it's supposed to be.

And anyway... you can get the KAC blemishes from knightarmco sales site for $150. I have bought 3 of the RAS blemish units.

Caeser25

03-05-10, 18:30

I got my brand new kac from ebay for $135 with full a full rail panel set and the broomhandle.

justin_247

03-05-10, 19:42

Well please post a link with where you're getting your info, because the site I'm looking at says 17oz.

http://www.knightarmco.com/

First of all, we're talking past each other. If you actually bothered to read my post, you would see that I did source my information with a link. Additionally, you would see that we're discussing carbine length rail systems here, not rifle length. The closest KAC analogue to the Troy MRF-DI is the M4 RIS or M4 RAS.

Also, the link that you cite says the RAS weighs 11.6 oz (and the picture includes rail covers, so I'm sure that explains the extra weight along with the fact that it has heat shielding, unlike the Troy).

Killjoy

03-05-10, 20:51

My department has been using Troy drop-in rails for about a year now with no complaints. Super solid, with no play at all. Troy rails are also the only four-rail systems that fit on our Big Sky Racks. While the Troy doesn't have a heat shield, I really don't see the need for one, none of our patrol rifles are full auto, and I've shot magazine after magazine without burning my hands, so I don't really see the need for it.

Quiet-Matt

03-05-10, 21:13

Im using the Troy and it is solid with zero play, and the TD VFG is good and tight on mine. It has 4 slotted screws that secure the two halves, but I don't think their completely necessary because it's solid without the screws installed.

boganz45

03-05-10, 23:27

I have KAC RAS on my carbines and they work fine. For $160 including the vertical grip and panels I find them to be fair deals. I only attach vertical grips and lights to my rails and a tiny but of lower rail movement does not bother me. A friend has the Troy Battlerail Drop-In CAR/M4 model (the KAC RAS equivalent) and it works fine as well. The KAC RAS has a leaf spring and a clamp with screw on the upper portion of the rail which locks it into the handguard cap and delta ring, respectively, nice and tight. The regular RAS lower just drops in like the handguards and has a heat shield. The Troy Drop-In just drops in like the handguards, however, the upper and lower pieces screw together. The Troy also has holes for QD sling swivels. I can get you pics of both if need be. I like the Troy design better to be honest (the rail bolting together to become "one piece") but the KAC works fine and is battle tested. Also, I believe the reason for the leaf spring and clamp with screw design were to minimize any possible movement on the upper piece of the RAS so that components mounted to the rail, such as a PEQ or the like, would maintain their zeros. Lastly, you can mount a M203 to your rifle if using the RAS, but I do not know if this is possible with the Troy rail.

JonnyVain

03-06-10, 12:19

First of all, we're talking past each other. If you actually bothered to read my post, you would see that I did source my information with a link. Additionally, you would see that we're discussing carbine length rail systems here, not rifle length. The closest KAC analogue to the Troy MRF-DI is the M4 RIS or M4 RAS.

Also, the link that you cite says the RAS weighs 11.6 oz (and the picture includes rail covers, so I'm sure that explains the extra weight along with the fact that it has heat shielding, unlike the Troy).

First of all, point to where the OP stated he was looking for a carbine rail. I was the first person to post anything about a specific length, so maybe I should be saying we're talking rifle length rails here.

Second, your 'source' states carbine rails. I already told you that you were comparing rifle to carbine, and you said you weren't. Now you're trying to say I'm not paying attention because I didn't know you were talking about carbine.

Third, if the KAC carbine is equal in weight to the Troy rifle, I wonder what the difference between both carbines would be? I looked it up. The Troy carbine is 4oz. http://store.troyind.com/7_MRF_C_Rail_Systems_for_all_M4_M16_Type_Carbines_p/srai-mrf-c7bt-00.htm

So the Troy is still half the weight.

We're not talking past each other, you're just not thinking before you speak.

What are the weight differences?

I have the 12" MRF-R Troy... at 8.75oz

You're comparing the KAC Carbine rail at 7" to the Troy Rifle rail at 12". The 12" KAC is over a pound.

No, I'm not.

you would see that we're discussing carbine length rail systems here, not rifle length.

OP asked a question and I was just trying to help him out. You're just confusing the subject.

mkmckinley

03-06-10, 12:29

I'm pretty sure KAC makes the Army issue rails we have on our M4's and FWIW the top sections break pretty regularly. Last I checked, out of a sample size of 12 we had three broken top sections (as in what was supposed to be one piece of aluminum was now two). They break just past the delta ring.

William B.

03-06-10, 16:13

I had the KAC drop-in rail on my issue M4. It was sturdy and completely reliable.

I'm pretty sure KAC makes the Army issue rails we have on our M4's and FWIW the top sections break pretty regularly. Last I checked, out of a sample size of 12 we had three broken top sections (as in what was supposed to be one piece of aluminum was now two). They break just past the delta ring.

KAC makes all the rails for the M4's, M16-A4's, and SAM-R's that we use in the Marine Corps. I've never seen one break or have any trouble.

Paladin4415

03-06-10, 17:58

JonnyVain

03-06-10, 18:06

my Troy without a barrel... its just sitting there, since it mounts on the barrel extension.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4333819344_ce56baf699_b.jpg

justin_247

03-07-10, 02:41

First of all, point to where the OP stated he was looking for a carbine rail. I was the first person to post anything about a specific length, so maybe I should be saying we're talking rifle length rails here.

First of all, the Op did not specify "rifle" length rails as opposed to "carbine" length rails. Being that this is M4Carbine.net, with an emphasis on the term "carbine," I figured that this is what he was discussing from default.

Second, your 'source' states carbine rails. I already told you that you were comparing rifle to carbine, and you said you weren't. Now you're trying to say I'm not paying attention because I didn't know you were talking about carbine.

You are not reading my source... Go to this thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1121), which I cited above, and go down to the third post and look at where it says, "Carbine, non-FF."

Third, if the KAC carbine is equal in weight to the Troy rifle, I wonder what the difference between both carbines would be? I looked it up. The Troy carbine is 4oz. http://store.troyind.com/7_MRF_C_Rail_Systems_for_all_M4_M16_Type_Carbines_p/srai-mrf-c7bt-00.htm

So the Troy is still half the weight.

According to BCM, the Troy MRF-DI for carbines weighs 8.5 oz. According to the KAC website, the RAS weighs 11.6 oz. So, being that double-shielded M-4 handguards weigh 6.4 oz, the Troy adds 2.1 oz in weight and the KAC adds 4.9 oz. Like I said before, either will suit him just fine... the question is whether he wants integrated swivel points without heat shielding, or heat shielding without integrated swivel points along with rail covers and a VFG.

We're not talking past each other, you're just not thinking before you speak.

Nope, I'm talking about carbine-length systems, since that is the default for this site, and you're talking about rifle-length. So, yes, we're talking past each other.

OP asked a question and I was just trying to help him out. You're just confusing the subject.

We're both trying to help him out.

boganz45

03-07-10, 03:00

For clarification: my previous post only addressed carbine-length rails.

justin_247

03-07-10, 03:16

For clarification: my previous post only addressed carbine-length rails.

Awesome. Here's what you need to know:

Troy MRF-DI
GOOD - lightweight, relatively cheap, has integral sling swivel attach points
BAD - doesn't come with rail covers or a VFG, lacks heat shielding

KAC RAS
GOOD - relatively cheap if you look around, has heat shielding, comes with rail covers and a VFG
BAD - doesn't have integral sling swivel attach points, tiny bit heavier than the Troy
EXTRA - in the extremely unlikely situation where you need to remove the bottom rail for a grenade launcher, it pops right out

Like I said earlier, the Troy is used by some Air Force units and the Department of Defense as a whole use the KAC on hundreds of thousands of rifles.

Just rank those based upon your needs and then choose the one that racks up the most points. If you have the opportunity to try them out, do that first.

Also look around for a DD Omega rail. Some can be had for less than $200 and it's a great system.

boganz45

03-07-10, 05:26

Awesome. Here's what you need to know:

Troy MRF-DI
GOOD - lightweight, relatively cheap, has integral sling swivel attach points
BAD - doesn't come with rail covers or a VFG, lacks heat shielding

KAC RAS
GOOD - relatively cheap if you look around, has heat shielding, comes with rail covers and a VFG
BAD - doesn't have integral sling swivel attach points, tiny bit heavier than the Troy
EXTRA - in the extremely unlikely situation where you need to remove the bottom rail for a grenade launcher, it pops right out

Like I said earlier, the Troy is used by some Air Force units and the Department of Defense as a whole use the KAC on hundreds of thousands of rifles.

Just rank those based upon your needs and then choose the one that racks up the most points. If you have the opportunity to try them out, do that first.

Also look around for a DD Omega rail. Some can be had for less than $200 and it's a great system.

I was neither the OP nor was I looking for rails (I have the carbine Troy Drop-In 20 feet from me and some carbine KAC RAS ten feet from me); I just wanted to add clarification for the OP in case he had questions regarding my post.

My previous post (about [carbine length] rails the OP inquired about):

I have KAC RAS on my carbines and they work fine. For $160 including the vertical grip and panels I find them to be fair deals. I only attach vertical grips and lights to my rails and a tiny but of lower rail movement does not bother me. A friend has the Troy Battlerail Drop-In CAR/M4 model (the KAC RAS equivalent) and it works fine as well. The KAC RAS has a leaf spring and a clamp with screw on the upper portion of the rail which locks it into the handguard cap and delta ring, respectively, nice and tight. The regular RAS lower just drops in like the handguards and has a heat shield. The Troy Drop-In just drops in like the handguards, however, the upper and lower pieces screw together. The Troy also has holes for QD sling swivels. I can get you pics of both if need be. I like the Troy design better to be honest (the rail bolting together to become "one piece") but the KAC works fine and is battle tested. Also, I believe the reason for the leaf spring and clamp with screw design were to minimize any possible movement on the upper piece of the RAS so that components mounted to the rail, such as a PEQ or the like, would maintain their zeros. Lastly, you can mount a M203 to your rifle if using the RAS, but I do not know if this is possible with the Troy rail.

Between our posts though I assume he should be good to go if he originally meant carbine rails.