View Full Version : Breaking news: VT Shooting
(CNN) -- The Virginia Tech police chief said at least 20 people were killed in twin shootings on the Blacksburg campus Monday morning.
"Some victims were shot in a classroom," Chief Wendell Flinchum said, adding that the gunman was dead.
"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university President Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."
The attacks mark the worst school shooting incident since 1999 when Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.
A hospital spokeswoman told The Associated Press that 17 Virginia Tech students were being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries.
Sharon Honaker at the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center told CNN that four patients had been transported there, one in critical condition.
One person was killed and others were wounded at multiple locations inside a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., Flinchum said. Two hours later, another shooting at Norris Hall, an engineering building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported. (Watch police, ambulances hustle to the scene Video)
The first reported shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on the 2,600-acre campus, is located near the drill field and stadium.
Amie Steele, editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper, said one of her reporters at the dormitory reported "mass chaos."
The reporter said there were "lots of students running around, going crazy, and the police officers were trying to settle everyone down and keep everything under control," according to Steele.
Kristyn Heiser said she was in class about 9:30 a.m. when she and her classmates saw about six gun-wielding police officers run by a window.
"We were like, 'What's going on?' Because this definitely is a quaint town where stuff doesn't really happen. It's pretty boring here," said Heiser during a phone interview as she sat on her classroom floor.
Student Matt Waldron said he did not hear the gunshots because he was listening to music, but he heard police sirens and saw officers hiding behind trees with their guns drawn.
"They told us to get out of there so we ran across the drill field as quick as we could," he said.
Waldron described the scene on campus as "mayhem." (Watch a student's recording of police responding to loud bangs Video)
"It was kind of scary," he said. "These two kids I guess had panicked and jumped out of the top story window and the one kid broke his ankle and the other girl was not in good shape just lying on the ground."
Madison Van Duyne said she and her classmates in a media writing class were on "lockdown" in their classrooms. They were huddled in the middle of the classroom, writing stories about the shootings and posting them online.
The university is updating its 26,000 students through e-mails, and an Internet webcam is broadcasting live pictures of the campus.
The shootings came three days after a bomb threat Friday forced the cancellation of classes in three buildings, WDBJ in Roanoke reported. Also, the 100,000-square-foot Torgersen Hall was evacuated April 2 after police received a written bomb threat, The Roanoke Times reported.
After the Monday shootings, students were instructed to stay indoors and away from windows, police at the university said.
"A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows," read a warning from the university.
"Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where they are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus," a statement on the university Web site said.
WE should all take a minute and pray for the students that were killed and pray for their families too.
I feel for the families of these victims
Kiss em goodbye fella's, this will be the beginning of the end. The RWM is already asking the question of gun control.
This is more fuel for HR 1022.
I live 100 miles from VT, my cousin and his fiance are both recent grads from VT, and he is/was having his wedding there on April 28th.
I feel for all effected.
platform389
04-16-07, 12:42
ABC News now saying 29 dead.
Does anyone have intel on the shooter or how he was taken down?
Joe Mamma
chapperjoe
04-16-07, 13:12
huge arfkom thread on this. besides for the geniune grief I feel, what stands out is this:
News article from January 2006:
Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
By Greg Esposito
381-1675
A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.
House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.
The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.
Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."
The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.
Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.
In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658
Does anyone have intel on the shooter or how he was taken down?
Joe Mamma
He killed himself, which is where he should have started.
In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.]
I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembered this. Congrats, VT. You've conspired to produce 26,000 unarmed, defenseless subjects who's only response to a person who wanted to kill them was to try and barricade the door while "security" stood around outside indecisively as shots rang out.
That Claire Wolfe article in the newest SWAT mag is making more and more sense.
chapperjoe
04-16-07, 13:40
I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembered this. Congrats, VT. You've conspired to produce 26,000 unarmed, defenseless subjects who's only response to a person who wanted to kill them was to try and barricade the door while "security" stood around outside indecisively as shots rang out.
That Claire Wolfe article in the newest SWAT mag is making more and more sense.
some guy on arfkom said it best, and I'll modify what he said...
gun control made you 'feel safe', CCW's MAKE YOU SAFE.
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker ....." this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
First off, My thoughts and Prayers are with all the victims of this horrible event, God Bless them. Second, now the anti gun people are going to go on a rampage.
I agree with your point, in hind-sight, a few responsible, armed students could have stopped this incident before it escalated to where it did today. I know if I had been on campus and armed, I would have tried to help stop this guy, even if it cost me my life.
I do not understand why campus and local police in US cities train for NBC, terrorist threats, bomb threats, and other scenarios, yet they never seem to train for quick and effective reaction to campus shootings. In my opinion, every large campus should have an AD-HOC SWAT-type reaction team.
Voodoochild
04-16-07, 13:55
Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.
...
The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
...
Good job Larry and VT board you could have prevented a tragedy but instead left your people helpless.
From the BBC webpage
At least 31 people have been killed and 10 injured after a gunman went on the rampage at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia, US.
May the Lord comfort the families of the victims...
John_Wayne777
04-16-07, 14:58
These were needless deaths.
University campuses are VERY easy targets, made even more so by the refusal to allow responsible citizens (be they faculty, staff, or students) to carry legally owned concealed weapons.
One man with two handguns is only an overwhelming force when confronting people who have neither the means nor will to resist.
John_Wayne777
04-16-07, 15:03
I do not understand why campus and local police in US cities train for NBC, terrorist threats, bomb threats, and other scenarios, yet they never seem to train for quick and effective reaction to campus shootings. In my opinion, every large campus should have an AD-HOC SWAT-type reaction team.
...and the mere creation of it would face insurmountable challenges.
Firstly, the political fallout on the campus of having a SWAT style team with SWAT style weapons....
Campus police departments are poorly funded and are afterthoughts most of the time. Our local university police has no long arms and does not even issue soft body armor.
They aren't capable of fielding a SWAT team.
On a campus the size of Virginia Tech, there is no quick and effective response to an active shooter situation. You simply cannot react fast enough to save everyone.
In an environment with that high a density of available targets, there is little LE response can do to stop a homicidal maniac bent on killing people.
The single best way to stop a situation like this is to have armed citizens among the intended victims who shoot back to stop the threat.
News is reporting a 2 hour delay between the two seperate shootings. WTF, over?!!!
John_Wayne777
04-16-07, 15:19
News is reporting a 2 hour delay between the two seperate shootings. WTF, over?!!!
From what I understand early this morning this superstar went into a dorm room and shot two people, reportedly a girlfriend type person and an RA.
He apparently left the dorm and police responded to the initial shooting and began to investigate.
Apparently they locked things down while investigating, and thought the threat was over, and released the lockdown.
Nobody knows any of this for sure, but it seems to me that the shooter did the feared thing and blended in with the crowd, and once the lockdown was over he was free to move again...which he used to get into the engineering building and kill a whole metric crap-ton of people.
I am hearing reports that he chained up the doors in the engineering building to prevent escape, that he lined people up and shot them execution style, etc.
Right now we don't know what the heck happened, but that big gap between the initial shooting and the second horrific shooting spree is going to be a source of much consternation to the VT authorities.
This really does suck. I have several good friends at school there, and that teach there, I've spent a good deal of time in the area as well. I'm hoping all my friends there are fine, but I haven't heard from everyone yet, and don't expect them to be checking back right away.
Anyhow,
I'm fairly pissed off about this in general.
I hope one of the retarded political types realize something from this:
THERE WERE ALL KINDS OF LAWS IN PLACE TO KEEP THIS FROM HAPPENING! THE BAD GUY ELECTED NOT TO FOLLOW THOSE LAWS!
Laws only really give law enforcement folk the authority to stop people, and the courts the ability to lock people up. Aside from that, they aren't worth much.
And for gun rights sake, I hope this guy wasn't using a dangerous 'assault weapon' but rather something less dangerous. (yes, there is some sick sarcasm here)
And yes, I'm pissed.
Yes listen up lawmakers.
People who do things like this DON'T CARE ABOUT LAWS, PASSING MORE OF THEM DOES NOTHING TO STOP THINGS LIKE THIS FROM HAPPENING.
Take the money you will spend trying to pass more laws, and put it into GUN EDUCATION, LAW ENFORCEMENT, and TRAINING.
:(
Thoughs and prayers go out to everyone involved in the madness that happened today.
From what I'm now hearing on the news:
33 people dead (including the shooter)
Gunman was a Male of Asian decent
Shooting was actually 2 shootings in seperate parts of the campus 2 hours apart
This is a perfect example on why people need to be armed when going about there everyday activites. Just think that if someone on campus was carrying they could have reacted to the threat and saved god knows how many lives. This really saddens me that shit like this continues to happen, and people and politicans continue to deny honest citizens right to carry firearms. When will this country learn :mad:
Voodoochild
04-16-07, 17:16
I was just watching Fox News and the Judge they have on there was talking about CCW in VA. And was basically talking bad about Tech because no one except for campus security was allowed to carry a firearm. He also predicted major lawsuits after this is all said and done because of the fact that you are not allowed to carry a firearm on campus.
They had a former NYPD detective on there Deedle something that was basically agreeing with the Judge about how this could have been prevented if students or faculty were allowed to carry firearms on campus. Sad to see so many lives lost especially since it could have been prevented.
:(
... Just think that if someone on campus was carrying they could have reacted to the threat and saved god knows how many lives.
:mad:
I know this is politically incorrect to say, but think if 2 or 3 people (maybe one person) would have had the guts to say, "If I'm gonna die, I think I'll die fighting" and pounce on this whacko with books, pencils, pocket knives, chairs, bare hands, or whatever... ESPECIALLY if it's true Mr. Whacko lined them up and shot them execution style. I can't understand why anybody would stand there and wait their turn.
Semper Paratus
04-16-07, 19:42
Unfortunately our society has turned most of its members into a bunch of sheeple dependent on the sheep dogs to protect us from the wolves. Look at the two aircraft that hit the WTC towers on 9/11.
One or two determined people copuld have stopped this massacre at VT or the WTC on 9/11 but the gumption has been taken from most and given to the .gov. (the police will take care of you) I encourage my kids 15 and 20 if they are ever in a situation such as this fight with ever fiber of their mind and strength. Your purse or wallet may not be worth a fight to death but if they try to take you somewhere or you feel they are going to shoot/stab/club you anyway use anything as a weapon and fight.
My personal experience is that the wolves don't expect a sheep dog in sheeps clothing and when the fangs come out they are likely to flee and look for one of the sure nuff sheep.
Now we need to be in prayer for the families who suffered such a grievous loss. We need to be active to get the laws that pull the fangs of the sheep dog changed and we need to put a bounty on the wolves.
I was just watching Fox News and the Judge they have on there was talking about CCW in VA. And was basically talking bad about Tech because no one except for campus security was allowed to carry a firearm. He also predicted major lawsuits after this is all said and done because of the fact that you are not allowed to carry a firearm on campus.
They had a former NYPD detective on there Deedle something that was basically agreeing with the Judge about how this could have been prevented if students or faculty were allowed to carry firearms on campus. Sad to see so many lives lost especially since it could have been prevented.
I really hope as many of the families as possible sue the university and the state over this and that even if they don't prevail, they bring light to this issue.
Whether or not some armed students, faculty, and visitors could have done much to end the tragedy quickly is debatable. I believe even one determined invidual could have minimized the loss of life. What can't be denied by any rational person is that so-called "gun free zones" like schools are attractive to violent criminal actors because they are unlikely to meet with any effective resistance. If it's known that people just might be armed (because the laws won't prevent them from exercising their fundamental human rights), then such predators and lunatics will be far less likely to attempt their crimes, or will go somewhere they think is a softer targets.
No individual or country has ever been attacked or gone to war because they were too strong and too capable of mounting an effective defense.
I know this is politically incorrect to say, but think if 2 or 3 people (maybe one person) would have had the guts to say, "If I'm gonna die, I think I'll die fighting" and pounce on this whacko with books, pencils, pocket knives, chairs, bare hands, or whatever... ESPECIALLY if it's true Mr. Whacko lined them up and shot them execution style. I can't understand why anybody would stand there and wait their turn.
I was also thinking the EXACT same thing ashooter.
TUNNEL RAT 33
04-16-07, 20:41
imagine what a few terrorists could do !! makes you wonder why the campus wasnt closed down after the first shooting at 7:00 am . you gotta feel for those families !
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/jnortham/bcrawl.jpg
I'll pray for the victims and their families.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/jnortham/bcrawl.jpg
That would be correct, VT Campus Police, they wait for the shooting to stop to kick in the door, why they go in there before all the student were killed I just can't figure, it really has me mad, I just don't get it.
John_Wayne777
04-17-07, 07:43
They didn't just sit outside and wait for the gunshots to stop, folks.
I know it is popular on some other sites to bag on the cops from a position of ignorance, but let's not start that stuff here, ok?
The fact is that as soon as the cops were aware there was a shooting in progress in Norris hall, officers tried to get into the building, only to find that the nutjob had chained the doors. This, of course, slowed them down.
They had to breach the doors and get in.
When officers got to the second floor they were still hearing gunshots. Apparently at this point the gunman knew that the cops were coming and decided to eat his own gun rather than fight with them.
chapperjoe
04-17-07, 08:53
as far as I know there were only two proactive classrooms - one barricaded themsleves and held the barricade despite the gunman firing through it repeatedly and trying to get in. and another room was saved by an Israeli professor who stayed in the line of fire to hold the door to cover his escaping students. He was a holocaust survivor - killed on holocaust remembrance day :-(
Wanna get even angrier - here's the Europeans telling us we need more gun control:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,477686,00.html
Please remember guys, this place is huge! No walled in campus and it was a tough thing to stop....
Crazy is as crazy does, was never clearer than today.
The badge is the toughest job to do when we snipe each other before we know all the facts...
In all incidents, enhancements and changes in training and policy can be made...
No one can stop a freak like this!
News says he's a South Korean on a Student Visa. Lived on Campus....
BLACKSBURG, Va. - A Virginia Tech student was behind the massacre of at least 30 people locked inside a campus building in the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history, the university said Tuesday.
The Virginia Tech Police Department identified him as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior in the English department.
The bloodbath ended with the gunman’s suicide, bringing the death toll from two separate shootings — first at a dorm, then in a classroom building — to 33 and stamping the campus in the picturesque Blue Ridge Mountains with unspeakable tragedy.
Ballistics tests showed one of the guns found was used in both shootings, at the doom and the classroom building, Virginia State Police said.
A federal law enforcement official said Tuesday he had been told by other federal law enforcement officials that the two guns recovered in the shooting had had their serial numbers scraped off. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced.
A law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.
Rmplstlskn
04-17-07, 10:04
Objectively, I hope that when emotions calm down that no one will SUE the school, but rather demand the removal and firing of the President and all others involved who allowed VT to become defenseless. The President and his cronies are a sure bet for firing, IMO, as they are directly responsible for the anti-gun regs on campus and the foolish handling of the first shooting. As for the VT Police Chief, I don't know enough about his actions to make a comment yet, but many who know him say he is an admin lemming and useless (Barney Fife analogy).
I truly hope the UNIVERSITY itself doesn't take a FINANCIAL HIT. This will do NOTHING to punish those whose decisions exasperated the situation. It would only hurt a GREAT school, and I'm not even a VT fan.
Just as we do not want GUNS, an inanimate object, to be blamed for this tragedy, lets not destroy financially VT either, rather blame the PEOPLE in charge.
Rmpl
This has been horrible to think about from the time the story broke, but now it's starting to hit too close to home.
I saw a kid on TV that I recognized as the son of someone at church. I think he help blocked the door of his class to keep the shooter out. I thank God he survived, while I pray for the families of those who did not.
Now, I just found out about Dr. Librescu. I knew him from my time conducting research at NASA. Several VA Tech ESM Professors conducted research in conjunction with NASA, and I got to know a few of them. Dr. Librescu was the graduate advisor for one of my friends.
----------------------------------------
"Liviu Librescu, 76, Professor, Engineering Science & Mechanics, and Holocaust survivor. Killed while holding off the gunman so his students could escape out the window."
http://www.esm.vt.edu/php/newspic.php?idx=71&order=1
Liviu Librescu (http://www.esm.vt.edu/php/person.php?id=10023)
"Librescu was teaching his class in Norris Hall when the killer entered the building randomly unloading his gun in class rooms. The Mechanics and Aeronautics professor stayed behind to stop the shooter from opening the door. When the attacker finally got into the classroom, threw himself in front of the gunman, a student told Israel's Army Radio."
"Alec Calhoun, a 20-year-old student who had been in Librescu’s class in room 204, told a reporter that at 9:05 a.m. they heard screams and a loud banging sound from the next-door classroom. When the students realized it was gunfire, he said, some hid behind tables, and others leapt from the classroom’s windows. Calhoun himself was among the last to jump. “Before I jumped from the window, I turned around and looked at the professor, who stayed behind, maybe to block the door. He had been killed.”"
"Liviu Librescu, 76, an engineering science and mathematics lecturer, tried to stop the gunman from entering his classroom by blocking the door before he was fatally shot, his son said Tuesday from Tel Aviv. "My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Joe Librescu said."
----------------------------------------------------
RIP, Dr. Librescu. Thank you for your sacrifice.
:(
It's great to know some people did what they could to try and stop that malignant pile of rat feces.
Submariner
04-17-07, 18:43
I truly hope the UNIVERSITY itself doesn't take a FINANCIAL HIT. This will do NOTHING to punish those whose decisions exasperated the situation. It would only hurt a GREAT school, and I'm not even a VT fan.
Just as we do not want GUNS, an inanimate object, to be blamed for this tragedy, lets not destroy financially VT either, rather blame the PEOPLE in charge.
I disagree. Would you take this postion if you were the parent of someone killed or wounded?
Did VT have a duty to safeguard the students? Or permit the students to safeguard themselves? Did VT, by actions/decisions its duly appointed agents, breach that duty? If so, was the breach the proximate cause of damages? Can those damages be measured in dollars? If so, VT is guilty of negligence in the death of the students and, perhaps, the faculty.
What about the wounded? Who pays for their costs of care? With rights, such as to expell a student for lawfully carrying, go responsibilities.
If VT is responsible (jury question), they ought take the financial hit, along with their agents, the decision makers.
Rmplstlskn
04-17-07, 21:37
Submariner,
I see your point and you are correct. It is just sad that those truly responsible (president, admin, board, VT Police) for refusing self-defense to their students will walk away unpunished and without lawsuit damage, leaving the school and the students to pay the bills for their negligence.
It's just sad, that's all...
Rmpl
Submariner
04-18-07, 09:28
Sue 'em both!
You guys see the pictures and videos he sent to MSNBC. There showing the videos now on fox.
This dude was severely ****ed in the head :confused:
How could no one pick up on him earlier.
"How could no one pick up on him earlier."
They did
He was evaluated as being a risk to himself and others and ordered to undergo outpatient treatment
Safe to say that while the diagnosis was spot on.....the plan for treatment failed
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