View Full Version : Remington 870 Police
I am looking at getting a 870 Police and was wondering what the difference between the 870P Wingmaster and the 870P Magnum? Are they the same differnces as the regular 870s? The Wingmaster has a nicer finish and the Magnum accepts 3in shells.
Thanks in advance.
I don't know if you're still wondering but, I just saw your post. Here is a cut and paste from another site:
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Here's the actual differences between the Wingmaster, the Police, and the Express guns:
The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.
The Wingmaster is Remington "Cadillac" top-of-the-line sporting gun.
The Police is a Wingmaster with a dull finish and is a much more carefully inspected and built gun.
How Remington lowered the Express price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster and Police guns get.
The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.
The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine version, which does NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece barrel. (not 100% sure about this)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.
Has the locking safety button.
The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
A chrome plated bolt.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.
The 870 Police has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Police gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A military-grade parkerized finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
The Remington “R3” super recoil pad that reduced felt recoil by 30%.
Choices in different stocks, including Speedfeed, and others.
18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
Police options like magazine extenders, forearms with built-in lights, and sling swivels.
Heavy-duty magazine spring.
Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
Sling swivel mounts.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" sporting gun, the Police is the top-of-the-line in defense guns.
The 870's are generally considered to be the finest quality pump gun made.
Here's what Remington says about their Police guns:
REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.
• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
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Joe Mamma
nationwide
05-18-07, 20:24
Excellent info!
[CTRL+S] and into my library! :cool:
A less polished bore
As in the Express guns look like their barrels were bored by angry beavers...
The Express guns arent bad for a behind the bedroom door, shoot it a couple times a year gun. But if you plan on serious practice for serious use, get an 870P or a Wingmaster.
Ive seen some GREAT deals on old Wingmasters at local pawn and mom and pop gun shops.
As in the Express guns look like their barrels were bored by angry beavers...
The Express guns arent bad for a behind the bedroom door, shoot it a couple times a year gun. But if you plan on serious practice for serious use, get an 870P or a Wingmaster.
Ive seen some GREAT deals on old Wingmasters at local pawn and mom and pop gun shops.
If you think the Express bores look bad, you should see a Mossberg bore. OK, maybe I just made the point that one shouldn't see a Mossberg bore.
I'll second Lumpy's point about about used Wingmasters, and add a point about old Police models. A local shop around here had 8 or so used 870 Police models on a rack. Just as I got interested, an employee said they has all been spoken for but just not picked up yet. Used 870s are a great option, and sometimes the Wingmasters (especially) have been fired very little.
Jay Cunningham
05-19-07, 09:43
The info above is worthy of a tack.
Joe
Thanks for the info. I have read before on another forum before.
The main reason for the question was because I found a source that had 870Ps in a wingmaster and magnum version. I was curiuos about the wingmaster version, because I have one for clays. It is a much nicer version, so I was cofused about it being the base of a police version.
olds442tyguy
05-30-07, 14:42
A trigger pull of 5-8 pounds huh? I bet mine's more like 3.5-4. Nicest damn trigger I've ever felt on a pump shotgun. The CYL barrel looks like a mirror inside, but I don't think I've ever really taken the time to examine any other shotgun barrel.
I actually don't like the ball detent system they use on the 870PM mag extensions. Too much barrel play with out the mag tube brace, although it's a non issue for the most part.
I've seen people say the machined extractors wear out faster than the MIM ones. I'm not 100%, but from what I've seen on mine compared to other people's I could believe it. :confused: Never seen any 870 extractor fail under any circumstances anyways, but who knows.
What is the general opinion of the 870 P Max with all of the goodies already mounted???
My park'd 870 Police gets heavy with the surefire and sidesaddle, but it has been flawless in the last six years or so. To be honest, it has only seen about 300 rounds in that time.
Just a little bit of trivia: my 870 Express Magnum (extended magazine home defense version) does NOT have the locking safety button. :cool:
What is the general opinion of the 870 P Max with all of the goodies already mounted???
If they offered it with a straight stock that's the model I'd buy.
How does the 870 P Max compare to a similarly spec'd Wilson Combat? And what is a reasonable price for the 870 P Max??? The 870 PMax prices I have seen on GunBroker put it within $100 or so of a similarly set-up Wilson....
PALADIN-hgwt
07-02-07, 17:27
xxxxx
olds442tyguy
07-10-07, 15:53
How does the 870 P Max compare to a similarly spec'd Wilson Combat? And what is a reasonable price for the 870 P Max??? The 870 PMax prices I have seen on GunBroker put it within $100 or so of a similarly set-up Wilson....
Starting with a base Police Magnum model and adding the features of the P-Max and Wilson guns would be alot more cost efficient.
I thought at one point I read that Wilson starts with the Express models for their lines. I'm not 100% on that info, but if it is true, I'd avoid the Wilson line due to the lacking factory upgrades and excessive pricing.
I thought at one point I read that Wilson starts with the Express models for their lines.
I'm pretty sure that is true.
Joe Mamma
toddackerman
07-23-07, 01:01
I'm pretty sure that is true.
Joe Mamma
Sure is true!
Tack
nationwide
07-30-07, 15:07
Just a little bit of trivia: my 870 Express Magnum (extended magazine home defense version) does NOT have the locking safety button. :cool:
I bought one of the 870HD models a few years back, and it had the J Lock on the safety. I just bought another one this past weekend, and it did not.
olds442tyguy
07-31-07, 19:50
Sure is true!
Tack
That being the case, I wouldn't recommend a Wilson 870 to my worst enemy. :mad:
I respect their 1911's, but I'd call their pricing on their other lines shady at best.
The $600 ADP pistol they sell was once imported by Heritage Arms as the "Stealth" for 1/3 the price of what Wilson charges.
They take $250 shotguns, add $250 worth of parts, then sell them for $1,000.
Oh well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. :confused:
When it comes to pump shotguns, the only other one I'd consider besides the 870PM is the Benelli Supernova Tactical. They're awesome guns and the price is equally good. For the price of a Police Magnum you can get a Benelli with a pistol grip stock and ghost rings.
[QUOTE=olds442tyguy;67662]That being the case, I wouldn't recommend a Wilson 870 to my worst enemy. :mad:
They take $250 shotguns, add $250 worth of parts, then sell them for $1,000.
QUOTE]
That is the truth more or less. I wanted their Border Patrol model and felt that $960.00 was a bit on the expensives side. I started with an older used 870 Express ($200.00), added $220.00 of parts from Brownells (Wilson, Speed Feed, etc) and $420.00 later had the same gun, well almost any way. It does not say Wilson Combat on the side, and I feel like I am at a tactical disadvantage when I use it because of that. (sic) The 870's just plain work and last. The main thing with the Express is to bring the trigger groups up to the Police standards if possible.
Right now the barrel for the gun is at Vang Comp for their VCS with ports. When it is returned I will have 4 Vang Comp barrels to test on 4 different guns one 18" and 3, 14"s. Hans Vang is a complete pleasure to do business with. Customer satisfaction is job 1 with him big order or small. After I test them I'll start my own thread for a report.
Pat_Rogers
08-01-07, 14:12
I have little use for Wilson shotguns as well.
OTOH, Hans Vang is a great guy and makes great guns.
One of his 'smiths used to work for me as a GySgt in the Marine Corps. Willie Sampson is a top notch guy and he builds terrific guns.
toddackerman
09-03-07, 02:26
How does the 870 P Max compare to a similarly spec'd Wilson Combat? And what is a reasonable price for the 870 P Max??? The 870 PMax prices I have seen on GunBroker put it within $100 or so of a similarly set-up Wilson....
Just and FYI...Wilson uses the "express" and I have personally seen in on the side of one of thier "Sctatergun Technoloigies ' weapons.
I had an original "Scattegrgun Technologies"and like a dope...i sold it!
Tack
toddackerman
09-03-07, 02:45
[QUOTE=olds442tyguy;67662]That being the case, I wouldn't recommend a Wilson 870 to my worst enemy. :mad:
They take $250 shotguns, add $250 worth of parts, then sell them for $1,000.
QUOTE]
That is the truth more or less. I wanted their Border Patrol model and felt that $960.00 was a bit on the expensives side. I started with an older used 870 Express ($200.00), added $220.00 of parts from Brownells (Wilson, Speed Feed, etc) and $420.00 later had the same gun, well almost any way. It does not say Wilson Combat on the side, and I feel like I am at a tactical disadvantage when I use it because of that. (sic) The 870's just plain work and last. The main thing with the Express is to bring the trigger groups up to the Police standards if possible.
Right now the barrel for the gun is at Vang Comp for their VCS with ports. When it is returned I will have 4 Vang Comp barrels to test on 4 different guns one 18" and 3, 14"s. Hans Vang is a complete pleasure to do business with. Customer satisfaction is job 1 with him big order or small. After I test them I'll start my own thread for a report.
I spoke to Hans Vang seceral months when i was having an "Original" "Scacttergun Tech (the originl one) "Vang Comped". He said way too muich was being made about this "Express Issue"...ESPECIALLY for somone who was goimg to just be usng it a few hundred rounds year for home protection. He thought the critical parts would not faulter, they just weren't as "Pretty".
That being said, I'd can polish the barrel and swap out the P Model trigger group and have just a good as gun as Wilson. I already have Han's safety, follower and spring, and Speed Feed Stock on the gun. Gosh i wish I had an extra $275 to have the barrel ported and vented...but then agsin, the gun just reayy sits in the safe. Tack
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