Carbines that died this weekend...

[Coopmandu]

Went to my first Vickers pistol/carbine class this weekend. Fantastic learning experience by the way...

A 16" DPMS AP4 went down hard during the night shoot. Was continuously double feeding from what I could see.

My Eagle 16" A4 AR10 had numerous FTF and FTE all weekend. Mostly as the gun was heated up. Shooter was using usgi M80 ball. So we could rule out any ammo problems... Good news was I wasn't shooting it.

And finally an LMT MRP 10.5 went down hard on the last day. Stopped cycling completely. Didn't get a good chance to find out the details.

All and all a friggin' fantastic class that really shows the stuff that YOU will need to master to become an effective shooter.

Coop

[lv2dirtbike]

wow thats great to know i almost bought a dpms this week but went with the rra. so far i love it not one problem, put about a 1000 rounds through it.

[Soulrack223]

Yeah, 2 weeks ago at the range the guy next to me had a brand new DPMS that was essentially a single shot. Short stroked on 5 different types of good ammo and my Colt and DSG magazines that have never failed me. I didn't take a closer look but I assume it was an improperly staked carrier key since the first half of a mag he fired through it went fine but in 4 range sessions since it was a single shot. I assume that if it was the gas block or gas tube it would have had trouble from the start and not after something could have worked loose. He had been on the phone with DPMS 3 times and they told him to use more lube. He said the BCG and the inside of the reciever were coated in CLP.

My home built misc. AR and my LMT Defender were both flawless as usual, even with his handloads. He was envious...

[M193 BALL]

Yeah, 2 weeks ago at the range the guy next to me had a brand new DPMS that was essentially a single shot. Short stroked on 5 different types of good ammo and my Colt and DSG magazines that have never failed me. I didn't take a closer look but I assume it was an improperly staked carrier key since the first half of a mag he fired through it went fine but in 4 range sessions since it was a single shot. I assume that if it was the gas block or gas tube it would have had trouble from the start and not after something could have worked loose. He had been on the phone with DPMS 3 times and they told him to use more lube. He said the BCG and the inside of the reciever were coated in CLP.

My home built misc. AR and my LMT Defender were both flawless as usual, even with his handloads. He was envious...



LMT DEFENDER is a POS !


No just goofing

I bought mine last year

well orderA complete upper 14.5 from LMT DIRECT then had my dealer order/Call LMT and order a SOPMOD,2 stage lower with single point sling mount

I find out later its made by tango down :D wich is okay I wish they mark it on there web site


I added a KAC RAS and VFG

Larue cantilever

Old ML2 still on same battery 7 years now

I also spent 25 bucks and bought a 9mm buffer

Im sold it stays on target very well

Compared to my Home Built LMT M4 with Bushmaster lower/VLTOR and 551 eotech


Both LMT M4`s have NEVER EVER HIC UP and clso to 2000rds fired

Just broke in :D


I cant belive HOW ACCURATE LMT M4 Barrels are


I use Blue Box Black Hills in 75gr and 77gr also MK262 white box

To bad the stuff is hard to get

last case was 400 bucks for 75gr blue From KISERS

[CarlosDJackal]

Went to my first Vickers pistol/carbine class this weekend. Fantastic learning experience by the way...

...All and all a friggin' fantastic class that really shows the stuff that YOU will need to master to become an effective shooter.

Coop

Not to sidetrack the thread. But I'm very glad to hear this. I am signed up for the same class next month at Marietta, OH.

Any suggestions or recommendations to help increase my learning experience? tia!!

[Sam]

Not to sidetrack the thread. But I'm very glad to hear this. I am signed up for the same class next month at Marietta, GA.

Any suggestions or recommendations to help increase my learning experience? tia!!

Vickers class in Marietta, GA ???? Details please.

[Neeglik]

Yeah, I'd like to know more about the GA class also...

[k9dpd]

Not to sidetrack the thread. But I'm very glad to hear this. I am signed up for the same class next month at Marietta, GA.

Any suggestions or recommendations to help increase my learning experience? tia!!


yea tell us about Marietta

[Turbo Supra]

Home Built LMT M4 with Bushmaster lower/VLTORI have an AR with the same combo---Bushy lower/LMT M4 upper, Vltor goodies. It runs extremely well also. :)

[CarlosDJackal]

Vickers class in Marietta, GA ???? Details please.

Oops, my bad. It's Marietta, OH. I spent waaaay too much time at Benning. :rolleyes:

[Sam]

Whew, got me for a minute . . . . . . . .

If this is the joint class between LAV and Ken Hackathorn, you're in for a treat.

[Coopmandu]

Not to sidetrack the thread. But I'm very glad to hear this. I am signed up for the same class next month at Marietta, OH.

Any suggestions or recommendations to help increase my learning experience? tia!!



I think the main thing to bring is a good additude and a willingness to learn. And if your a fan of the 1911 pistol this is THE guy to ask any questions or suggestions.

[CarlosDJackal]

Whew, got me for a minute . . . . . . . .

If this is the joint class between LAV and Ken Hackathorn, you're in for a treat.

Why yes it is. :D I am very much looking forward to it. I need the time away from work and I can't think of a better way to do it than attend a Tactical Class. :p

[M193 BALL]

I think the main thing to bring is a good additude and a willingness to learn. And if your a fan of the 1911 pistol this is THE guy to ask any questions or suggestions.

+1
Open mind / Good atittude

[SuicideHz]

So basically these were all home built rifles to a certain extent, right? Pieces/Parts rifles?

It didn't come down to mags or ammo at all?

I'd love to take a class where one guy can beat me and abuse me regarding my carbine skills and the only break would be to head over with my 1911 to get further chastized. I'll live through it and I know I'll learn something by the end of the class.

We need one of these in the 219 area code of Indiana. Anywhere along I65 from Lake Michigan down sough to Indy would be ideal for me and two friends.

I'm ready.

[Sam]

I've taken at least one carbine class per year for about 5 years now from top notch instructors such as LAV, Hackathorn, Howe, Harrington, etc. I saw guns such as Bushmasters, Colts, Rock Rivers, Stag/CMT home buit frankenstein guns, LMT, Ameetec and Patriot pistol uppers. I rarely see any failure due to gun breakage or manufacturer's flaws. I have seen many good guns to failed to run due to lack of LUBRICATION. In the LAV class a month ago, a nice LMT parts gun choked up toward the end of day one due to lack of lube. A few generous squirts of LSA got the rifle back to running for the rest of the class.

I've never seen DPMS or Eagle guns though.

[Low Drag]

When I see a M16 type of weapon double feed I first look at the mags. They are notorious for doing this after some wear and tear, getting stepped on etc.

Short stroking, gas rings lined up or like the others said gas key.

[jmart]

When I see a M16 type of weapon double feed I first look at the mags. They are notorious for doing this after some wear and tear, getting stepped on etc.



What exactly do you look for? Bent lips? Anything else?

[Low Drag]

What exactly do you look for? Bent lips? Anything else?

Most times it's hard to see just what's wrong. But if I get double feeds the first thing I do is ID the mag. Then set it aside and try another. I use a process of elimination to see if it's a bad mag.

Remember, for a little ole grunt like me in the field we didn't have the tools to "check the specs". And during night fire there's no way to properly visually inspect it until the next day.

By using a process of elimination you can ID if a mag is bad pretty fast. It really helps if you have a buddy there so he can try your "bad" mag. If he has the same problem then you have found a bad mag.

[jmart]

Most times it's hard to see just what's wrong. But if I get double feeds the first thing I do is ID the mag. Then set it aside and try another. I use a process of elimination to see if it's a bad mag.

Remember, for a little ole grunt like me in the field we didn't have the tools to "check the specs". And during night fire there's no way to properly visually inspect it until the next day.

By using a process of elimination you can ID if a mag is bad pretty fast. It really helps if you have a buddy there so he can try your "bad" mag. If he has the same problem then you have found a bad mag.


If the lips look good, have you ever tried replacing the spring and follower? If so, did this restore functionality?

[Heavy Metal]

Feed lips spreading/seperating causes it. A true double feed of live rounds that is.

Feeding an empty and a live is a dropped extraction and not a double feed. This is not magazine related.

[Low Drag]

If the lips look good, have you ever tried replacing the spring and follower? If so, did this restore functionality?

No on the spring/follower (that was "armor" type of work). A bad spring would imply it is too weak.

The double feeds that I've see are due to a round "jumping" out of the mag as the spent case is ejected then the bolt strips off the now top round of the mag. It's a bitch to clear those as the round gets jammed into the gas tube area.

The other big mag failure I've seen is the catch wears out and the front end of the mag drops too low in the mag well and the nose end of the round hits the inside of the mag well. A slap on the bottom of the mag and it takes off.

[FJB]

So basically these were all home built rifles to a certain extent, right? Pieces/Parts rifles?

It didn't come down to mags or ammo at all?

I'd love to take a class where one guy can beat me and abuse me regarding my carbine skills and the only break would be to head over with my 1911 to get further chastized. I'll live through it and I know I'll learn something by the end of the class.

We need one of these in the 219 area code of Indiana. Anywhere along I65 from Lake Michigan down sough to Indy would be ideal for me and two friends.

I'm ready.

Pat Rogers www.eagtactical.com teaches alot at Sheriff Ken Campbell's Boone County Range Facility outside Indianapolis. Also Sheriff Ken and Jay Tuttle, both Gunsite Instructors teach approved three day Gunsite classes there.

S/F

[Armati]

Any carbines that really stood out?

What role do you think that cleaning and maintenance played?

What was the condition of these weapons? All things being equal, a lot of AR failures can be due worn parts.