View Full Version : How well known is Noveske?
Complication
03-06-10, 16:33
My new Noveske gets here Tuesday so I've been taking around my Rock River to local shops to see what I can get for it (I figure I'd rather sell it and spend that money on ammo and optics than keep it as a back-up).
I'm always asked why I'd want to sell "such a nice gun." So I tell them, "the next one will be nicer." And when they ask what could possibly be nicer than a RRA I tell them "Noveske." That's when I get a blank stare. Or they say something like, "is that some Russian knock-off?"
Obviously, Noveske is a pretty well-known name around these forums and, I would assume, among many serious AR buffs. And I do live in Cleveland, where anyone who spends more than $700 on an AR-15 or $250 on a handgun is considered a high roller. But I got curious...
In your experience, how many people out there have heard the name before?
If they think the RRA is "such a nice gun" then they should "give you a lot of cash for it".
The truth is that guns that are not mass produced commercial guns i.e. not RRA, Bushmaster, etc... are never going to be well known to common gun shops. Most gun shops dont know shit about the guns they sell anyway.
Only the people that care enough to buy the best.
Had a nice discussion with a former tactical team member yesterday about how excited he was because he just got in his Stag Arms piston upper...I simply smiled and said "good for you." If they don't care then I don't care to explain things to them. I got a couple of BCM's and Troy's so I know what real quality is.
Complication
03-06-10, 16:43
If they think the RRA is "such a nice gun" then they should "give you a lot of cash for it".
Believe it or not, I've been offered damn-close to what I paid for it. After watching Pawn Stars on the History Channel all the time, I thought $600-700 would be optimistic. Turns out I've got a good chance to actually make a profit buying new and selling used!
I've found only pretty serious students will recognize the name. There must be 5 or 10 gunmag articles reviewing a BM, Stag or RRA rifle for every mention of a Noveske. And a 50:1 ratio for BCM.
Complication
03-06-10, 17:05
There must be 5 or 10 gunmag articles reviewing a BM, Stag or RRA rifle for every mention of a Noveske. And a 50:1 ratio for BCM.
Why spend money making a bomb-proof gun when you can spend it on marketing instead, eh?
lethal dose
03-06-10, 17:14
Hahaha. You're making a quality decision. Get rid of the RRA, and never buy another.
lethal dose
03-06-10, 17:19
Print off several copies of the chart and take them to local shops with you. When they refer to a RRA as being nice, just hand them a copy of the chart.
Went to two (3) of the local GDs around my neck of the woods, and none of them heard of Noveske. On their walls/racks were the others' ARs, not even a Colt!
SWATcop556
03-06-10, 18:46
When it comes to gun shops the rifles that have the most ads and the prettiest pictures are "the best."
I prefer Noveske to remain low key. They're shit is hard enough to get my hands on as is. :D
mkmckinley
03-07-10, 11:13
Believe it or not, I've been offered damn-close to what I paid for it. After watching Pawn Stars on the History Channel all the time, I thought $600-700 would be optimistic. Turns out I've got a good chance to actually make a profit buying new and selling used!
That's awesome. I managed to do the same thing (sell at a profit) with a DPMS and used the money toward a N4 light. Probably one of the best gun selling decisions I've made. I used to work at a pawn shop and I would never, ever sell anything there. Their business model relies on Lowballing with a capital L. They really want you to borrow money so the only way they'll outright buy something is if it's a great deal for them.
Most people I know that carry an M4 for a living don't know about Noveske and think RRA is GTG.
Thomas M-4
03-07-10, 12:12
Most guys behind the counter only know what the gun rags tell them has they read it on the crapper.
Every now and then I run across somebody at the gun store that knows a thing or two.
mkmckinley
03-07-10, 12:26
Come to think of it the "high end" shop I go to had a Wilson Combat AR and they treated that think like it was a holy relic. The employee I spoke with had heard of Noveske but didn't think they could be as good as a Wilson.
VooDoo6Actual
03-07-10, 12:26
GUN RAGS are generally a SCAM PERIOD.
NOVESKE rocks.
I recently picked up my Noveske lower from a local shop (FFL transfer). When the shop owner was doing the background check (via computer database), Noveske was not a listed manufacturer, and he had never heard of them either.
The shop owner also made a comment about the lower was probably built in someones garage. I bit my tongue and patiently waited for the info to clear.
spamsammich
03-07-10, 12:43
...
In your experience, how many people out there have heard the name before?
Only those with a clue.
Believe it or not, I've been offered damn-close to what I paid for it. After watching Pawn Stars on the History Channel all the time, I thought $600-700 would be optimistic. Turns out I've got a good chance to actually make a profit buying new and selling used!
I had the same thing happen to me. I had a RRA upper and quickly decided that I didn't want it anymore and actually made $75 bucks off of it and didn't have to spend a penny more to buy a BCM middy. It is amazing what advertising can do to the un-informed.
Semper Fi
Tim
Belmont31R
03-07-10, 13:09
Most of the time at the range someone will ask me what Im shooting. I say...Noveske, KAC, LaRue, BCM, etc. Maybe 20% don't give me an odd look and actually know what at least one of them are. These are people shooting AR's, too....
Had one guy try to tell me his DPMS SASS was so great, and was the new Army sniper rifle. He had all this CAA garbage on it. Every cheap tactical part you can poke a stick at.... I was just like yeah thats cool..... :rolleyes:
spamsammich
03-07-10, 13:19
...
Had one guy try to tell me his DPMS SASS was so great, and was the new Army sniper rifle. He had all this CAA garbage on it. Every cheap tactical part you can poke a stick at.... I was just like yeah thats cool..... :rolleyes:
I must have been shooting next to the same guy. Was he also running his DPMS bone dry and having to hand cycle it with every round until the gun locked up?
Belmont31R
03-07-10, 13:26
I must have been shooting next to the same guy. Was he also running his DPMS bone dry and having to hand cycle it with every round until the gun locked up?
No this was in TX. Range is always fun for seeing ridiculous people and guns.
I had to back off the line when a guy took the bench next to me, and pulled out a home made black powder muzzle loader, and said something along the lines of "I hope this doesn't blow up!"
theorangecat
03-07-10, 13:36
In your experience, how many people out there have heard the name before?
Around here, Daniel Defense would be considered an exotic manufacturer (my M4v3 was the first DD one local dealer had handled)... so the name Noveske probably wouldn't even register.
vicious_cb
03-07-10, 14:15
Noveske, BCM, and now Daniel Defense are only well known among serious users. For the hobby crowd its Bushmaster, RRA and CMMG.
I have the same experience as others here. If they are knowledgable, they have heard of them, if not they look like a confused puppy.
One of my guys asked me to check out his RRA for use as his duty rifle. When I told him it wasn't mil-spec (which our policy requires) he told me:
"Well, the mil-spec is changing. I have a friend in Iraq AND Afghanistan who is issued a RRA. The DEA and FBI are now issuing them too.". My response was "How is your 'friend' in both Iraq AND Afghanistan?". He just shut up and walked away. I can barely stand to go into gun stores any more. Its like fingernails on a chalkboard.
"Well, the mil-spec is changing. I have a friend in Iraq AND Afghanistan who is issued a RRA. The DEA and FBI are now issuing them too.". My response was "How is your 'friend' in both Iraq AND Afghanistan?". He just shut up and walked away. I can barely stand to go into gun stores any more. Its like fingernails on a chalkboard.
That's why I never really go to gun shows anymore. The amount of hot air blowing around threatens to lift the structure in which its housed completely off the ground. The price-gouging dealers with substandard weapons is only outnumbered by the uninformed duds willing to shell out hard-earned dollars for junk. Many times dealers will tell some kind of story about a historical rifle, like an M1 Garand used by "Pvt So-and-So in the 1st Division throughout WWII". When I ask for any documentation or providence to establish this, they look at me like I'm crazy. Historical guns without providence are just guns with a good story, nothing more; no value is added.
The closet commando crowd is even better with overweight guys in tan, pocketed vests walking out the door with action-zip-tied BM's or RRA's like they just bought the proverbial "40-watt plasma rifle". If they only knew....
I think we're better off with Noveske only being appreciated by those "in the know."
My new Noveske gets here Tuesday so I've been taking around my Rock River to local shops to see what I can get for it (I figure I'd rather sell it and spend that money on ammo and optics than keep it as a back-up).
I'm always asked why I'd want to sell "such a nice gun." So I tell them, "the next one will be nicer." And when they ask what could possibly be nicer than a RRA I tell them "Noveske." That's when I get a blank stare. Or they say something like, "is that some Russian knock-off?"
Obviously, Noveske is a pretty well-known name around these forums and, I would assume, among many serious AR buffs. And I do live in Cleveland, where anyone who spends more than $700 on an AR-15 or $250 on a handgun is considered a high roller. But I got curious...
In your experience, how many people out there have heard the name before?
Your in Ohio. No one knows who Noveske is. ;)
Make sure to check out the Ohio training forum. We also have a shop that is not too far from you.
C4
1811tactikool
03-07-10, 18:29
I am in Idaho, practically around the corner from Noveske and I hadn't heard of them until last year. My first AR was during the runup to the election, and that is when I really started doing research. Learned quickly (after buying my RRA) that Noveske was top tier. I have one now, but I also have learned the world doesn't rotate around them, and there are a lot of guns that will get the job done too.
Complication
03-07-10, 18:47
Your in Ohio. No one knows who Noveske is. ;)
Make sure to check out the Ohio training forum. We also have a shop that is not too far from you.
So true. I went to a gun show this morning, saw an optics table and went over to take a peek. I've got my Aimpoint ML3 and 3xMAG already, but thought I'd take a gander anyways. Full of NCStars and other optics priced below $100. Saw a table full of knives. And I've always loved me some knives. Got my KaBar D2 Fighting knife sitting by my bedside. The table was broken up into sections titled, "Any knife $5" "Any knife $10" "Any knife $25" My cheapest CRKT pocket knife costs more than that.
You know those $5 DVD bins at Wal-Mart that always have shit movies you wouldn't spend a nickel on? Ohio is like the bargin movies bin of the USA.
I mean, I'm not someone who thinks $$=quality. I picked up a brand spanking new CZ P06 for $600. Give me access to the most expensive carry pieces on the planet and I'll still walk around with my CZ. Can't be beat, in my opinion. But some things you really need to shell out some dough for if you want something that's rock solid (give me a gun with a $50 optic and I'd probably take it off and chuck it before I ever used it).
As for training. I don't think I'll have the funds to sign up for any serious courses this summer (poor grad student). But I'm beginning a list of all the gear and stuff I'll need for a serious carbine course.
I agree with 1811, though. Most gear out there will get the job done--I have no doubt my RRA would go bang when I pulled the trigger. I just find it amusing when someone talks up a mid-range gun as if it was the gold standard.
The training is free and I am running the Carbine section. ;)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44288
C4
Having been on both sides of the counter, and having the misfortune of having talked to "shooters" at a great many public ranges, I've come to the conclusion that as soon as someone uses the word "nice" in regard to a firearm, they have absolutely no idea what they are looking at.
Had one guy try to tell me his DPMS SASS was so great, and was the new Army sniper rifle. He had all this CAA garbage on it. Every cheap tactical part you can poke a stick at.
Had similar with a fellow at the range I went to. Everyone around were looking in "awe" thinking that's too cool. :confused:
I must have been shooting next to the same guy. Was he also running his DPMS bone dry and having to hand cycle it with every round until the gun locked up?
Same experience at said range, and this fellow had a bull barrel, but it appears that he had "issues" with said rifle, because he kept on taking it down for cleaning after every single shot. :confused:
Seems like only one individual "knew" or "heard" of Noveske, as I over heard him saying that he took a barrel from a Noveske upper for his next project gun.
Most gun shops dont know shit about the guns they sell anyway.
A sad, but accurate observation.
Complication
03-07-10, 19:22
it appears that he had "issues" with said rifle, because he kept on taking it down for cleaning after every single shot..
Haha, that reminds me. When I unloaded my RRA, the guy pulled out the BCG to inspect it and make sure it was in good shape. He spent about 2-3 minutes trying to put it back (even taking the charging handle off and trying to put the BCG in first) before asking me "is this thing broke or something?" I politely reached forward, slid the bolt forward so the cam pin wasn't in the way, and said, "try it now."
It's entirely possible it was a brain fart moment that every one of us has from time to time but he looked perplexed that what I did worked which makes me think he is the kind of guy who sprays WD-40 in their guns and says, "There. Clean."
If you think Noveske isn't well know, you should try Geissele. The guy next to me at the range wanted shoot my gun. After he shot it, he said, "boy that trigger sure has a lot of creep compared to my Timney." I tried to explain that it was a two stage trigger (Geissele DMR).
Just remember it cuts both ways. 75% of my customers think DPMS or Bushmaster are the best/only brands to have. Mention Noveske,BCM, Larue to them and you may as well be speaking Swahili, Oh, and Colt is made by Olympic.;)
Scott
most folks haven't heard of koenigsegg sports cars or turner mountain bikes either, doesn't mean they aren't amazing products.
The local Sheriff Dept. opens their range to the public twice a month. The SWAT guys run it and I've become friends with most of them. They knew I was getting rid of two AR's to buy a new one, so when I got there they came around to see what I had. None of them had ever heard of Noveske. They shoot RRA's and were polite but I guess it's old hat to them.
Then, a couple of "bubba's" saw the deputies looking at my gun, so they brought their DPMS's over to show the deputies. The "bubba's" had some bling-bling on their guns and I think the deputies actually liked the "bling-blings" more. The "bubba's" politely asked me what brand mine was and after I told them Noveske, one "bubba" said, "Huh...I guess anybody can make an AR these days!" and the other one said, "Man, you should have read more about AR's and got you a DPMS!"
I just smiled and went back to my bench.
this fellow had a bull barrel, but it appears that he had "issues" with said rifle, because he kept on taking it down for cleaning after every single shot. :confused:
Just sounds like a benchrest shooter doing an extended barrel break in.
mkmckinley
03-08-10, 01:07
That's hilarious, and sad.
I got to talking with one of the contracted mechanics the other day and he started telling me all about his amazing AR... "it's a DPMS with a bull barrel and a green tactical laser blah blah blah." I mentioned Noveske's barrels and he had no idea what I was talking about. I guess it's a bit of a niche company for guys that are really into AR's and don't mind paying for quality.
i did not know about Noveske until i joined here.:D
now i know thing or two.
my 1st AR would be either HK556 or Noveske N4 Light Recce Low-Profile 16"
My dad and I happened to be passing through Grants Pass about a year and a half ago and decided to waste some time at a local gunshop...
Guy had a decent number of AR's... but all low budget to middle of the road brands with "DEA Tough" prices.
My dad and I were just looking them over and getting a nice monologue from the guy behind the counter about "milspec" this and FBI that...
I asked him if he knew where Noveske's shop was and if it was open to the public...
Man did he turn red faced and his tune changed... seemed actually pretty pissed.
I will never forget that "oh shit" look on his face when he knew he had just spouted off and been caught... just because I knew Noveske existed... it is somewhat sad really...
Lucky Strike
03-08-10, 15:02
I had the same thing happen to me. I had a RRA upper and quickly decided that I didn't want it anymore and actually made $75 bucks off of it and didn't have to spend a penny more to buy a BCM middy. It is amazing what advertising can do to the un-informed.
Semper Fi
Tim
Same thing happened to me with my RRA (it was my first AR). In fact I went back and bought two more RRA uppers and sold them for a profit and put it all into my new BCM BFH DD Lite recce upper I just bought.
Last year when I was looking for an AR I took a trip to Gander mountain to check some out (this was during the period where it was impossible to find them anywhere). They had just got in some Rock Rivers and Bushmasters and the salesman tried to tell me that RR was top of the line and when I pushed the matter he just told me to trust him because he used to be in special forces. Also when I asked him if they could order a Noveske he gave me a strange look and asked if they were russian. He then told me to stay away from those unknown brands and that a RR would be better anyway. A few months later they had a Les Baer on the shelf at a ridiculous price. I asked the same guy why the Les Baer was so much more expensive than the RR and he told me, "Because they run 1000 rounds through it to break it in". I proceded to tell him some would consider that a used rifle and he got all offended. I decided I wasn't going to buy anything from him.
SouthWolfGA
03-08-10, 16:10
No this was in TX. Range is always fun for seeing ridiculous people and guns.
I had to back off the line when a guy took the bench next to me, and pulled out a home made black powder muzzle loader, and said something along the lines of "I hope this doesn't blow up!"
Ouch
Stop it
My chest, it hurts. LMAO.
I dealt with an FFL locally last week, who I'd only had one prior transaction with.
The guy actually knew his stuff. It was a real pleasure to deal with the guy.
Didn't B.S. me, I'll do business there again.
I don't even talk to the guys about guns in gun stores anymore, Hell I just try to get out of there without some wild eyed old man trying to tell me some tale or something he'd heard of, etc. You know, when the Tin Foil starts showing.
Or why the guy behind the counter thinks RRA or Bushmaster is "just as good".
I just don't want to argue anymore, there aren't hours enough in the day.
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