View Full Version : ND at church tonight
CaptainDooley
03-06-10, 22:47
So I'm standing in the sound booth at church after service tonight when a lady from my small group walks up and says, "Kevin - is there any thing we need to do if a gun went off in class?" I almost thought she was kidding, until I realized she was shaking ever so slightly. There are several police officers in my small group and most of the rest of the class took their CHL class together, so it's a possibility. I ask her if anyone is hurt - she says no, it just went straight into the floor. Then I tell her I'll contact security and let them know.
After the head of security catches up with me, I let him know what I know and he calls over the uniformed police officers. After a little pow-wow they decide the best route would be for me to go into the room and ask the guy who did it to come out and talk to them (rather than disturbing the whole class, since they decided to go on with their night). I walk in and ask the guy to come out in the hall. He's visited a couple of times, but I don't really know him - turns out he's a cop. The cops pull him into my office (since it was nearby) and examine him and the gun to make sure he's alright. Turns out he was shifting his Kel Tec P32 from where it was clipped onto his waist band and putting it in his holster. It apparently went off when he pulled it out, because there's a hole right in the middle of the ass of his pants... After a stern talking to from the older officers they let him go, deciding not to charge him with unlawful discharge.
Here's what was reinforced:
1. Not all cops are gun people - someone who was would have been a little more cautious I'd think.
2. Good support gear is a must - I've never had to completely change the way I was carrying a weapon while out in public... guess I was just lucky to figure out good gear before I got to far into this.
3. Keep your booger picker off the bang switch until sights are on target and the decision has been made to fire.
Really pretty basic stuff would have kept this from happening. In some ways I'm glad he was a cop so my church doesn't decide to post 30.06 signage and ban concealed carry.
wow.. i'd be so deathly embarrassed i think i'd have to start looking for a new church. what kind of "class" was it? regular bible study?
Wow - I agree on the carry factor here. Dont carry in a position that can be comprimised by taking a jacket off, sitting down, bending over. This is a reason in certain situations I will go to an ankle holster.
What kind of holster did he have? Or did he have one of those POS "Clip-draw holsters" that attach to the frame? (leaving the trigger uncovered)
Turns out he was shifting his Kel Tec P32 from where it was clipped onto his waist band and putting it in his holster.
Am I reading "clipped" like
http://policelink.monster.com/nfs/policelink/product_photos/0000/0895/homepage_glock_max192w.jpg
Clipdraw?
I have been looking for a "good" case for pointing out how dumb that method of carry is. I realize I probably don't need to get on a soap box here, but I have been on the hunt for a "it actually happened" rather than "it could happen" story.
Glad no one was hurt.
SW-Shooter
03-07-10, 00:28
I'm not calling BS, but have you ever fired a Kel Tec. The thing has a freaking 4000lbs trigger pull. You'd have to be a white jacket moron retard psych patient to pull the trigger accidentally. I'm not buying the shifting the pants/holster BS, and neither should you.
1. Not all cops are gun people
This one caught me off guard the first time I went out to the local pd range. I have a couple of old hs football buddies who joined up. One is a range master and we get together and do some plinking and gun talk.
I was pretty amazed with a few leo who came over to look at my stash seemed to have no knowledge of firearms other than their personal sidearms. Some I'm told only really shoot to qualify. I saw two pistols that did not appear to have ever been wiped down.
Anyway, I guess being an enthusiest all my life it just seems odd to not take care of the tool & practice more (with free ammo) that may save your life. Pretty naive of me to assume all leo would be gun people.
Good story, and very good points on consistent, quality carry options. The clipdraw looks about a step removed from the Jamaican Holster.
Side note: you'll find fewer and fewer cops these days who you would call "gun people". This is due to a number of reasons- generational, personal/department costs, personal priorities, department priorities, and (my own term) institutional arrogance. There was a thread here on that very subject a while back.
I've heard of hellfire and brimstone sermons, but this is nuts! ;)
RogerinTPA
03-07-10, 09:00
I'm not calling BS, but have you ever fired a Kel Tec. The thing has a freaking 4000lbs trigger pull. You'd have to be a white jacket moron retard psych patient to pull the trigger accidentally. I'm not buying the shifting the pants/holster BS, and neither should you.
In total agreement. Glad no one was injured but what a DF move to have his finger on the trigger.:rolleyes:
Makes me want to start going to this church! Armed cops and members everywere. ND happens and class keeps going. My kind of christians!
MarshallDodge
03-07-10, 09:49
I'm not calling BS, but have you ever fired a Kel Tec. The thing has a freaking 4000lbs trigger pull. You'd have to be a white jacket moron retard psych patient to pull the trigger accidentally. I'm not buying the shifting the pants/holster BS, and neither should you.
Funny but true. I agree about the trigger pull, those things are HEAVY.
geminidglocker
03-07-10, 10:07
Two of the Gun Stores I visit have each had more than a few Officer invloved negligent discharges. :( The few Police Officers that I am friends with all practice frequently.
A majority of the officers in my dept. arent gun people. We have a female who has been here for about 4 years. Doesnt know how to disassemble her duty Glock.
Also the powers that be approved Busmaster, Armalite, Rock River, and yes Olympic Arms, for approved Ar's to use, but not LMT, Bravo, or KAC:eek::eek::mad::p:(:rolleyes:
A majority of the officers in my dept. arent gun people. We have a female who has been here for about 4 years. Doesnt know how to disassemble her duty Glock.
Also the powers that be approved Busmaster, Armalite, Rock River, and yes Olympic Arms, for approved Ar's to use, but not LMT, Bravo, or KAC:eek::eek::mad::p:(:rolleyes:I've lost count of the number of agents I've seen fail our semi-annual qualification, with no adverse action on the part of "management."
When we published our recent personally owned weapons list, it approved Taurus pistols and revolvers, but not Browning or FN. Sometimes I just want to cry...
Regards,
Kevin
EzGoingKev
03-07-10, 15:56
1. Not all cops are gun people
Just like not all mechanics are car people.
Just like not all mechanics are car people.
But most of them know cars. You don't have to have a love affair but know your tools.
1811tactikool
03-07-10, 17:58
I've lost count of the number of agents I've seen fail our semi-annual qualification, with no adverse action on the part of "management."
When we published our recent personally owned weapons list, it approved Taurus pistols and revolvers, but not Browning or FN. Sometimes I just want to cry...
Regards,
Kevin
Who do you work for? I have encountered the same thing in mine... :rolleyes:
A lot of Cops should not be allowed to carry a gun.
If they guy needed to change the position of his carry gun, he should have gone to a bathroom or some other private room so as not to endanger anyone.
C4
John_Wayne777
03-07-10, 18:23
Wow. That's a new one on me. I've never heard of someone having an ND during Sunday School before.
Glad no one was hurt, but I would have charged him regardless of whether or not it was an accident. He obviously doesn't understand the responsibilities and liabilities of carrying. A gun with a short barrel like that could have easily been pointing at someone's foot/ thigh or whatever.
Glad no one was hurt, but I would have charged him regardless of whether or not it was an accident. He obviously doesn't understand the responsibilities and liabilities of carrying. A gun with a short barrel like that could have easily been pointing at someone's foot/ thigh or whatever.
He also does not understand basic physics either based on his claim that this happened when he was pulling the gun up and out of his waistband.
Not to bash LEOs but if this had been a non-LEO what would have been the consequences? I am hoping this will be dealt with through channels (rather than the legal system) so that the Officer is provided with additional training.
Buckaroo
EzGoingKev
03-08-10, 10:28
But most of them know cars.
Maybe back in the day they did.
While the officers on scene did not charge him, I feel they should at least notify accidental discharge officer's superiors so they know what is going on.
Glad no one was hurt, but I would have charged him regardless of whether or not it was an accident. He obviously doesn't understand the responsibilities and liabilities of carrying. A gun with a short barrel like that could have easily been pointing at someone's foot/ thigh or whatever.
...Not to bash LEOs but if this had been a non-LEO what would have been the consequences? I am hoping this will be dealt with through channels (rather than the legal system) so that the Officer is provided with additional training. Buckaroo
I'm not big on putting charges on people if other effective control options exist. That's the beauty of officer discretion. Hopefully, he was humiliated and learned a lesson. A call to his CoC would work well here.
I suspect that if he has anything resembling a decent policy manual, he'd have to report his ND to his CoC anyway.
Of course, that doesn't mean that anything would come of it, but it would be an option.
He also does not understand basic physics either based on his claim that this happened when he was pulling the gun up and out of his waistband.
Sounds like he was pulling it "up and out" by the trigger......
I'm not calling BS, but have you ever fired a Kel Tec. The thing has a freaking 4000lbs trigger pull. You'd have to be a white jacket moron retard psych patient to pull the trigger accidentally. I'm not buying the shifting the pants/holster BS, and neither should you.
I have a P32. The trigger is not a Glock/M&P type trigger but it is not that heavy. If you grabbed it wrong it could easily go off.
CaptainDooley
03-08-10, 11:50
Sorry - never got a reply notification here.
It was a bolt on clip.
I wasn't in the room, so the story is as presented to me.
As a follow up his department was alerted by the local department - apparently they went back later to take pics and recover the round.
Ridge_Runner_5
03-08-10, 12:41
Guarantee you if it had been a lowly commoner, they would have been charged with something, at the least discharging a weapon in city limits...
John_Wayne777
03-08-10, 15:04
Guarantee you if it had been a lowly commoner, they would have been charged with something, at the least discharging a weapon in city limits...
I don't think that's a guarantee. I've seen a number of news article where someone negligently discharged a firearm in public and as far as I could tell faced no charges for doing so.
Sounds like he was pulling it up and out" by the trigger......
lol I guess that would work eh? :rolleyes:
Buckaroo
Guarantee you if it had been a lowly commoner, they would have been charged with something, at the least discharging a weapon in city limits...
Guarantee your wrong.
I've heard of hellfire and brimstone sermons, but this is nuts! ;)
Apparently almost *his* as a matter of fact. Glad no one was hurt.
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