questions on cmp shoots

[billyd603]

i am interested in cmp shoots. what is the required barrel length on an ar-15 for these competitions? also need to have a fixed stock?

[CAVDOC]

depending on how fussy the host club is- many clubs are pretty laid back on what you shoot at local cmp events. BUT to be technical, for a CMP sanctioned service rifle match the rifle must be identical in external appearance to a GI issue m16a2 or a4 with the following exceptions:
can have an a1 or a2 length stock/pistol grip.
may lack bayo lug and flash supressor(important in "ban" states like NY.)
can be any color/mix of colors.
there are probably more, and the cmp website lists them. For practical application any of the 20" barrel a2 or a4 clones on the market would be ok, and of course the purpose built national match a2's.
This type of shooting is NOT the place for your tacticool 16" telestock carbine.
Also CMP rules- metallic sights only.

[Shawn.L]

yeah, that pretty well sums it up.

a lot of clubs run a CMP shoot that isnt "sanctioned" and will allow pretty much anything without optics. If you are going to shoot an official match you will need the 20" bbl and a1/2 stock and standard (or at least standard in appearance) handguards.

[billyd603]

awesome guys thankyou. guess i need a longer barrel. need to find a good gunsmith to add this item on

[CAVDOC]

lets say you have a 16" carbine with telestock- best route on a budget is to get an a1 or a2 fix stock kit and replace those items on your lower. Then go out and get a complete a2 or a4 top half -either the standard or a "national match" with better sights barrel and free float tube- then switch uppers back and forth as dicatted by type of shooting you will be doing

[Mauser KAR98K]

I would almost suggest in getting a whole new rifle for the matches. There are two types of categories in the CMP matches: match or service. I fall under the service rules due to me using the "Big Gun", an M1 Garand.

I do have a fixed stock carbine, but it is a carbine. So, for me, finding a good 20" upper is only how much I can afford. As for converting a collapsible stock into a fixed, and re-barreling your carbine, from my suggestion, I'd save and get a full rifle. With money you might have to pay to get it competitive, it will be close to just either buying one, or making one.

Then you are going to need a shooting jacket, shooting mat, shooting glove, spotting scope, and a good sling that won't slip. Recently I've purchased a Jim Owen's non-pulse sling, and it works like a charm. Problem is, when I go off-hand, I have to keep my old sling handy to strap it to the rifle for the non-supporting rule.

Now, if you have an old bolt-action service rifle, you can compete. I'd go to a Garand match with one to be on the safe side; how I started out. K31 Schmidt Rubins were king at a range I competed at for a while. The 7.5 gets expensive, bu quarter size groupings at 100 yards made up for it. (Swiss know how to build a rifle).

Good luck with it. I hope I haven't discouraged you. CMP matches are a thrill, and a challenge. It will test your endurance in some positions, and it will test your discipline. Every shot counts. Did a match last Sunday and placed dead last to a whole field of AR-15s. Me, I need to work on my positions, and I need to go back are retool my reloads. My M1 doesn't seem to like 165gr Match-kings, but loves the 150's.

Good luck, and chase the X!

[Mark/MO]

If you are unfamiliar with formal position shooting may I suggest attending a John C Garand match. I feel these are great for a new shooter because of several factors:
1) Matches I have attended are more informal (for lack of a better term) and in my experience the shooters are very open to helping new shooters, even loaning out their rifles and equipment.
2) Lower round count, typically 35 rounds. Ammo is usually included in the match fee at most matches I have attended.
3) Coaching is allowed and even encouraged. This is very helpful to a shooter new to high power.

These matches are restricted to rifles from the M1 back through the Krag. However in my experience it is an excellent introduction to this shooting discipline. Experienced shooters are very inviting to new shooters and will nearly fight for the privilege of loaning their equipment and to coach a new shooter.

As an example, I showed up at my first JCG match with a gun and sling but nothing else. I told the range officer that I was new to this (a very good idea) and when asked, told him what I lacked. Within minutes I had a mat, shooting jacket and $1,200 spotting scope plus two experienced high power shooters wanting to coach me. I have seen the same thing with others time and again. I know of shooters who bring extra rifles and equipment solely for the use of others.

I come from a formal position rifle shooting background, having shot competitively since about 13 or so, continuing on to compete on my high school team and then at the college level. Just my opinion, but I believe the JCG matches are an excellent way to be introduced to high power without spending a bunch of money. YMMV.

[CAVDOC]

agree with the garand match as an intro. many CMP sanctioned clubs have ammo and rifles for laon if you do not have your own. My club even bough a few Ar 15 A2 style rifles for use of club members/juniors.

[Mauser KAR98K]

That was exactly how I started doing real competition shooting. The JCG matches are the best matches to start out with before really committing to the sport.

Long time ago I tried for my NJROTC's rifle team. I didn't make it, but I was introduced to a Korean War vet who taught...or I should say drilled me all the positions. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Well, I never did made it to the rifle team.

However, after I had graduated high school, I received a Mauser KAR98K as a graduation present from my parents. Went out shooting it one day and ran into one of my old couches that help out with me doing off hand. Conversation got into the John C. Garand Match where I could shoot my Mauser in the Springfield match. And that lead to how I could obtain a Garand through the mail. Later on that.

After a few months I attended my first match. Now, for the record, don't let my experience foil up what CAVDON and billyd603 have said about JDC matches; they are friendly, and the do help new shooters. But it so happened with me that I ran into the Marine who taught...uh, drilled me the finer points of competition shooting. Being a broke high school grade didn't help either, for no quarter was given for me lacking a "essential" tools. Have I said that a Marine is always a Marine?

I did get a spotting scope...and that was about it. My shooting jacket was a British DPM fall/spring jacket, I didn't have a glove, but I was offered a shooting mate. Scored a 321/500 on my first match with my Mauser. A year and a half later I got my M1 at my door.

Five minuets later I got my first M1 thumb.

[Wallyg8r]

Plus One on the JC Garand matches. That's where I got my start, altough I was able to qualify for an M1 purchase by virture of being former military. I have now shot eight of them. Great fun and very laid back atmosphere. All of the matches I have been to, with the possible exception of the State Championship (or the Nationals for that matter), would allow your carbine, although you would not be firing for awards. They would still score you and everything, just no medals at the end.

Another good way to get started is to attend a CMP Clinic. You will get marksmanship training by a CMP certified instructor, and then fire a match. It's cheap (usually around $35 including ammo) and fulfills the CMP requirement for proof of qualifiying firearms activity. Clubs that hold clinics often have equipement available for first timers (rifles, matts, and spotting scopes). Go to odcmp.com and pick the "competition tracker" tab and then search by state for clinics (or garand Matches). If you happen to be in Southeast Michigan, there is a clinic next month at the Linden Sportsmen Club http://www.lindensportsmenclub.com/CMP_Clinic_April_2010.pdf

Hope to see you on the firing line!

Roy

[Smuckatelli]

i am interested in cmp shoots. what is the required barrel length on an ar-15 for these competitions? also need to have a fixed stock?

The only requirement for barrel length is not to exceed 20" (5).

The collapsible stocks are not allowed (10).

If you already have a rifle with a 1/7 or 1/8 16" barrel, replace the stock and try one CMP shoot before you decide to spend additional funds on them. My daughter used a 6920 for her first CMP shoot last year, the armorer put a M16-A2 stock on the rifle for her.



The rifle must be an M16A2 or M16A4 rifle issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial rifle of the same type and caliber. M16 rifles must be chambered for the 5.56mm cartridge and comply with the following specific requirements:

(1) Modification to make automatic fire impossible without removing, replacing or altering parts is allowed.

(2) Metal or synthetic (polymer) magazines with standard service 20 or 30-round box magazine dimensions must be attached during the firing of all courses and in all positions. A 10-round magazine with the same external dimensions as a standard service 20-round box magazine may be used. A dummy magazine with a ramp for single shot loading may be used if this magazine has the same external dimensions as the standard service 20-round box magazine. Standard service 20-round magazines are straight, without curves. Standard service 30-round magazines are curved.

(3) The front sight post may be fixed or lockable.

(4) To stabilize the rear sight assembly, it may be fitted with one or more pins extending down into the receiver or with stabilizing projections extending forward no more than 5/16” into the top groove of the carrying handle.

(5) The flash suppressor and bayonet lug may be removed or the rifle may be manufactured without a flash suppressor or bayonet lug. Barrel length may not exceed 20 inches, as measured to the end of the rifling in the barrel.

(6) A screw may be inserted in the back radius of the pistol grip where it joins the lower receiver. This screw may extend into the rear lock-down lug of the upper receiver for the purpose of securing the upper and lower receivers. The screw head may not protrude above the original surface of the receiver. Both ends of the original takedown pin must remain in place so that the original outside confi guration is not changed.

(7) Upper receivers may not be changed during the firing of any match.

(8) An external device may be attached to prevent selector lever movement to the auto position.

(9) The front sling swivel may be attached to the front ferrule of the handguard or front tip of the “tube” (in the case of a fl oating barrel system) as long as it remains in the 6 o’clock position and is no more than ½ inch from the original sling swivel location.

(10) The M16A1 rifle (short) butt stock or the commercial equivalent may be installed on an M16A2 or M16A4 rifle. Collapsible stocks of the type used on M16 M4/M4A1 Carbines are not permitted.

(11) If an M16 A4 or a commercial equivalent rifl e with a removable carry handle is used, the rifl e must be equipped with a carry handle and rear sight that has the same confi guration as the carry handle on the M16 A2 (height, type of sight, etc.). No optical sights are permitted. The carry handle must be attached to the rifle in such a way that the sight radius remains the same as the M16A2 rifle. A higher front sight base (.060”) or lower rear sight base/ carry handle (.060”) may be used to allow proper zeroing of the rifle from 100 to 1,000 yards.

(12) A standard handguard or tube without an accessory rail must be used. The sling swivel can attach to the front ferrule of the handguard or the front tip of the tube in accordance with Rule 6.2.3 (10).

(13) A DVC-T-30 or commercial equivalent case deflector may be attached.

Check out page 23:

http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf

[HelloLarry]

Check out local clubs for "Sporter" matches as well. These are usually 200yd or less and just about any rifle you have will do. They are a great intro to position shooting & Highpower.